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Games Entertainment

Neverwinter Nights Coming in June 193

Posted by michael from the we-mean-it-this-time dept.
dextr0us writes "The apocalypse has come. Neverwinter Nights beat Duke Nukem Forever to the release floor. According to Neverwinter Nights Official Site it seems that they are taking pre orders, and the official date for the pre orders is 6/25/02. As a fan of pen-n-paper, without the geekiness, Neverwinter Nights solves my dilemma!" Update: 03/25 12:38 GMT by Hemos :Just a small note: I'm still available for beta-testing. *grin* CT: Hemos is not available for beta-testing. He has work to do first ;)
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Neverwinter Nights Coming in June More

Neverwinter Nights Coming in June

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  • Hype (Score:1)

    by olman ( 127310 )
    It has to be great because it's talked about? Black & White anyone? I'd wait for the review in one of the more reputable mags.

    In fact, these days I rarely buy any games before they hit the mid-price mark. You get them cheaper and with quite a few bugs less.

    As for comparison to IRL role playing.. If we can use such a term.. If you remove the social aspect, what are you left with?
    • I totally plan to play this with 4 or 5 friends over a lan. Same thing we do when we play MagicTG. Pick up our computers and head over to one of our houses for a weekend of fun. All of the previews suggest their will be a huge quantity of material for single/lan play.
    • Can a few hundred to thousands all play in a world? if so it will be great.

      First thing i'd do is let player killer types control the monsters,

      why should AI control monsters, and why do people always complain about pks? Would solve both problems.

      Second, if the game is truely scriptable, you could create a nice storyline, like diablo.

      Right now i dont know enough about neverwinter nights, but if its anything like bulders gate then ill hate it.

      If its like diablo or ultima online but with more features, and customizability, then its perfect
      • Maximum of 64 players.

        And the "levels" are of a similar type found in most FPS, ie. limited in size, whith some kind of portal between each "level".
        • Its just a diablo then.

          I dont think i'll buy it, I wanted a game with HUGE levels where we control the size limit, portals are ok but its not really about levels, its about virtual world

          to me at least
          i dont want a hack and slash
          • Well, they are claiming that the portals do not necessarily have to go to new levels that YOU created. The portals are supposed to be able to connect to other servers that people have setup.

            So in a sense, you can get a virtual world. If enough people get together and create a part of this world, and then link their servers together, you get a large, fairly seamless virtual world.

            One person could create a dungeon, one does a complex town, another has a server for the countryside, etc. The portal connections here aren't that bad, a slight delay I suppose as you enter a dungeon or exit a town. That is what they are claiming, so let's hope it works out.

            - A non-productive mind is with absolutely zero balance.
            - AC
      • As for player killer types controlling the monsters I am not sure. But the controller of the server is in effect, the Dungeon Master.

        He/she has complete control over the world while the players are in it. The game creators claim to allow the DM to enter any NPC or monster in the game to help or hinder the players in any way. I don't see why there couldn't be multiple people with this ability.

        And as for customizability, I believe you create the story line and how things are to function in your world (probably constrained to certain physics models). You control the campaign, you are the dungeon master...whether people have a good time or not might depend on your storytelling....

        - A non-productive mind is with absolutely zero balance.
        - AC
  • Having just replayed Baldur's Gate, I was amused to find a reference to NVN being 'released soon'. I bought my copy of BG back in 1998! ;-) Anyway, I'm looking forward to it as much as anyone else...


    • It was a good game, but the ai was way too dangerous

      i want an rpg where the players can either be the monsters, (bad guys) or the good guys.

      Player killers could have fun being monsters

      Im thinking a game involving vampires would be perfect for this, something like castlevania
      • "It was a good game, but the ai was way too dangerous"

        LOL. You have got to be kidding me. You are talking about BG right? The AI in that game was so weak there are a few websites with people trying to improve the AI for the enemies. TeamBG.com is just one of them.

        Jaysyn

  • Release dates say nothing at all (Score:4, Interesting)

    by _Ash_ ( 126458 ) on Monday March 25, 2002 @07:14AM (#3220380) Homepage
    The 25th of June? I'm sorry to say so, but if the gaming industry has proved one thing, it is that they almost never release games in time. No, this isn't a troll, it's just a fact.

    Take for instance the example used in this topic: Duke Nukem Forever. I don't know it exactly but it must be in production for more than FIVE years. And in those five years many release dates (or periods, like the end of 2002) have been set. Although DNF is maybe a bit of an extreme example, I know of almost no games that have been released in time.

    Only when release dates are set within a month or so, you can be reasonably sure the game will be released in time.
    June is (for the gaming industry) still a long time away, my bet is that it will get postponed. I'd be truly suprised (and happy :) ) if that wasn't the case.

    • Re:Release dates say nothing at all (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Well if ya kept up with the hype you would know this game has been delayed for more then a year already. And they never realesed an offical date either, so we will see. Besides the even said that there will be updates later to cover some things they can't get to now. Like scpirt editing and module designing in linux.

    • Re:Release dates say nothing at all (Score:1, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      The whole topic about games not being released on time is old hat now. Everytime I read about a release being out on whatever day, what comes next is you see is a massive thread of debates "informing" newbies to not hold their breath. Which brings up another issue, online pre-orders. My experience has been that if you want a game the day it's released, then go to EB, put your name on the reserved list, and pick it up when it arrives. If you pre-order it online I can almost guarantee about 90% of the time you will ended up waiting a day or two longer than if you had just bought it at the store. This pissed people off more than anything and I find myself laughing and thinking to myself that people just never learn.
    • A release date for DNF has NEVER been set. 3DRealms official date was, is, and will be: "when it's done."

      Anyone that claims anything else doesn't know what he/she is speaking about.
    • I know of almost no games that have been released in time

      Ultima Underworld II was released 1 month ahead of schedule and remained one of favourite games of all time, and surprise, it wasn't buggy! I still remember the pleasant surprise I had walking into my games store seeing the game in demoed a full month before it was supposed to be released.

  • It's coming. (Score:2, Funny)

    by zapfie ( 560589 )
    Really, it's coming in June now. Honest. We swear it.

    *ahem* ;)

  • Isn't anyone midly offended by the post? (Score:4, Funny)

    by GauteL ( 29207 ) on Monday March 25, 2002 @07:16AM (#3220383)
    "As a fan of pen-n-paper, without the geekiness, Neverwinter Nights solves my dilemma!"

    Aaaarggh... we've been invaded by jocks!! ;)
  • This comes as no surprise whatsoever. I appreciate that 3D Realms want to make DNF a jaw droppingly good game, but dont they realise that people are just losing interest? This year is going to be a good year for gaming fans with many quality titles hitting the shelves.. maybe 3DR should get out of their shell ("We'll release it when its done") and just announce a freaking date.
    • 3drealms is waiting untill they don't have any other games on the market.. now with max payne's console releases & recent cash flow from that. they don't want their games to compete with each other.. if they didn't have any money left on their bank account, i'd bet they'd release it within a month.. but seriously though, DNF has been taking so(!) much time, i think they must have changed the engine several times and made the levels from scratch several times too, i bet it's REALLY frustrating for the artists, coders&designers.. unless they have just been playing pong all day long until today.
      • I would be curious to know how much money has been spent developing DNF. It's gotta be in the stratosphere by now. Unless, of course, they just have one guy working on this thing the whole time. Which I doubt.

        • Wasted money at that (Score:3, Interesting)

          by HanzoSan ( 251665 )
          First they used some 2d engine back in 96, Then they used the Quake Engine, Then on to the Quake2 Engine, The Quake 3 Engine, and Unreal Tournament Engine.

          Because they were too lazy or stupid to develop their own Engine they wasted all this money and time switching throuugh other peoples Engines.

          This game better be surperior to Doom 3 or else this is the END and I mean absolute END of whatever company makes Duke Nukem.

          I dont care if Max Payne makes them money, let Duke fail and no one will believe in their ability to write a decent game after almost 10 years working on it.
          • I'd like to know where you got that information. I don't think DNF was ever on a 2-D engine. I presume you're calling Build a 2-D engine, but I don't think the plan was to ever make the game using Build. They decided to make the game with the Quake engine, with Quake 2 features grafted in. After Unreal (not UT) shipped (which was after Q2) they decided to switch to the Unreal engine, and it's stayed there. Sone features from UT are no doubt in there but they went into a code freeze a while back (before the press blackout). It was never on the Q3A engine.
    • Exactly, they want to make it the highest quality game ever. Besides, looking at the confidential files..

      (Flips through a couple pages)

      Here it is. Duke Nukem Forever is slated for reelease.. sometime after hell freezes over.

      Doh.
    • dont they realise that people are just losing interest?

      if it's good we'll soon know

  • The answer to our prayers? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by El Jynx ( 548908 ) on Monday March 25, 2002 @07:18AM (#3220393)
    I've been drooling for NWN to come out for ages now. I think this will blow unsurpassed life into D&D again: - Dicerolling is all done by the poor computer. - Getting people to be able to come over on the same day as well as longer term reliability is much easier. - No more arguments about "I was behind 90% cover, honest!" What fireballs you is what you sweat. - The unique semi-P2P setup of the game will allow for a vast realm to come into existence. Based on the screenshots and the other facts they gave us I think NWN will be one of the greatest games to come out for the coming five years; the sheer scope of the conept (D&D and nead-limitless creativity) allows for immense replay value. Come to think of it, has anyone heard anything BAD about NWN? - Jynx
    • "Come to think of it, has anyone heard anything BAD about NWN?"

      No, but you didn't hear anything bad about Daikatana...

      Until it got reviewed / laughed at.

      I'm looking forward to NWN as well, but I want to see a review or two first, and play the demo.

      Maran
      • Bioware aren't exactly a new company it the RPG market. They make arguable the best RPG games out atm and know how to make good quests.

        Unlike verant with EQ's go and run over the map through a few zones get killed a few times, and if you make it get virtually no experience for the days of effort style quests...

    • Re:The answer to our prayers? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Wire Tap ( 61370 ) <frisina AT atlanticbb DOT net> on Monday March 25, 2002 @07:28AM (#3220418)
      Yep, I've heard some bad things.

      1) No swimming.
      2) No climbing.

      I can't get over when an RPG takes out some very basic physical actions in order to make the game just a little easier to code. Simply put, I think those two actions add/take a great deal to/from the game, depending on if they are in the game or not, or if they are implemented well.

      When I'm in a game, I want to be completely surrounded by the fantasy. I don't want to remember that it's just a game, and not being able to do simple actions like swimming and climbing rip me right out of the fantasy, and plop me down in reality.

      They have had ample time for this project; they should have done it right. Don't get me wrong - I'm excited about the game - I'll finally be able to bring my old campaign to life again, but I am slightly disappointed in the engine.
      • lets compare two RPG's, one with swimming, one without:

        In the blue corner, Bauldur's gate 2, arguably the best RPG ever made, great quests, but no ability to swim or climb.

        In the red corner, Evercrack, arguably the worst crime against humanity perpetrated by a software company. Too addictive, hideous repetative gameplay. The abitity to swim definitly does not save a game if it lacks anything above the kill get exp. heal routine.

        Quests, characters and gameplay are more important than Swimming/ climbing

        • Try asheronscall (Score:3, Insightful)

          by HanzoSan ( 251665 )
          Which beats both these games.

          AC has superior online playing features than EQ and BG, The graphics arent as good as EQ but the gameplay is great, it has the most complex spell system, it has a complete class system with monarchism, it has all kinds of enviornments from forrest to mountains covered with snow, weather system with rain effect, snow effects, etc, waterfalls, its just a virtual world.

          The tactics come into play when you have diffrent enviornments.

          The monsters in AC are very smart, they attack with strategies instead of just random hits

          BG had good AI, but it wasnt a multiplayer kinda game, at least not like EQ or AC.

          BG is more compareable to diablo, I'd be fine with NWNs being more in the style of diablo, but i'd prefer something bigger so thousands of players can play with each other or at least hundreds
        • You compare a good game with a bad game, and the good game "wins", why am I not surprised. Try to compare two good games.

          Take f.ex. Gothic (which have both swimming and climbing). Or even Ultima Underworld 1 or 2 (still impressive games, IMHO), which have swimming.

          But then I found BG1+2 to be hack-n-slash/powermonger games, so I am biased in that respect.
        • What does "too addictive" mean with reference to a computer game? EQ looks pretty lame to me, and people are certainly spending WAY too much time on it, but when does a game's ability to get people to play it a lot become a negative trait?

      • Re:The answer to our prayers? (Score:5, Funny)

        by khuber ( 5664 ) on Monday March 25, 2002 @08:01AM (#3220517)
        When I'm in a game, I want to be completely surrounded by the fantasy. I don't want to remember that it's just a game, and not being able to do simple actions like swimming and climbing rip me right out of the fantasy, and plop me down in reality.

        Oh, give me a break. None of us computer game players could swim or climb if we wanted to in the real world anyway, so the game is actually very realistic.

        Dammit, I dropped my Doritos. I am screwed! Help!!

        -Kevin

      • Re:The answer to our prayers? (Score:5, Interesting)

        by argStyopa ( 232550 ) on Monday March 25, 2002 @08:15AM (#3220552) Journal
        While I understand at a gut level that you might be disappointed in the engine, I'd disagree that it's a big deal.
        To implement "swimming" sounds simple, but realize that they have MILLIONS of combinations of body types (you will be able to mix & match to make a new creature out of an orc with long draggy arms f'rinstance). Swimming (like horseback riding also not included) would entail a HUGE investment in new models, motions, AI programming for relatively limited gamevalue return. Remember, every monster would have to constantly make the calculation 'can i get there quicker by cutting across the stream rather than use the footbridge?' along with commensurate risk evaluations.
        Ditto climbing, and in fact probably WORSE.
        So it was a matter of resources. And yes, they've been doing it a long time, but it's a HUGE project.

        To dash a little more cold water on the subject of swimming (ha ha, sorry) IMO swimming is very much one of those categories of events that DM's fudge, and that is going to be an area where NWN is weak - especially for those of us running persistent 24/7 servers ala [shameless plug/]www.alandfaraway.net. [/shameless plug] Look, in a PnP game, you (as the DM) are constantly tweaking and managing NPC and environmental changes in response to all the unexpected crap PC's come up with. While NWN is implementing everything they can to allow DM's to deal with this, the nature of the beast is such that players can play while you're NOT THERE, meaning every dialogue, every event, every potential NPC reaction will have to be scripted or risk 'breaking' your precious scenario. In the case of swimming, I can't for a moment think of a published module in which making a swimming check is indispensable; failing it is simply too save-or-die for most DM's and players. Usually it's more like "the ship sinks in a storm and you get washed ashore - make a swim check to see how much of your stuff you could save" - which obviously could be handled in a variety of other ways.
        Climbing, being more critical to a specific class, is somewhat more missed. But the various forum boards have already pretty much addressed the issue, and AFAIK Bioware IS contemplating adding both of these to an expansion/sequel....but people now just want the darn game in their sweaty paws and would rather omit these than wait longer!

        The critical VALUE to NWN that makes it so much better than BG or IWD is 1) the implementation of D&D 3e rules set, meaning a HUGE player base familiar with the rules and system, 2) a distinct and major effort by Bioware to make the game customizeable and usable by anyone to build anything they want...paralleling the value of RPG's in general, and addressing the main weakness of CRPGs.
      • I don't want to remember that it's just a game, and not being able to do simple actions like swimming and climbing rip me right out of the fantasy, and plop me down in reality.

        You can't swim or climb in reality?
      • When people develop players loaded with 500 pieces of gold, lots of treasure, a heavy sword, and plate mail armor - I'd like to see them try to swim and climb too :)
      • Recall that BG & BG2 had neither swimming nor climbing, and I don't remember that hurting the gameplay at all. They used a stairway tile to imitate the "feel" of climbing on a flat plane, though I don't know whether that will be possible in NWN. Anyway, I don't remember ANY RPGs that allowed you to really swim. A number of games let you lamely "walk underwater", but I don't think that really adds to the immersive (sorry) element.

        If you're disappointed in the engine, I wonder if you've taken the time to really examine how many things ARE possible? I haven't played or heard of any RPG, let alone one that's inherently "moddable", that does anywhere near as many things as NWN!
        • I should qualify this:

          "I don't remember ANY RPGs that allowed you to really swim"

          with the disclaimer that I've never played, nor know anything about, Everquest. That cheesy pointy-eared chick on the box killed my interest, I'm sorry to say.

      • Re:The answer to our prayers? (Score:5, Informative)

        by Dixie_Flatline ( 5077 ) <vincent.jan.goh@NoSPam.gmail.com> on Monday March 25, 2002 @11:05AM (#3221424) Homepage
        NWN is fun, even without the swimming and climbing. Really, I haven't found a game where those things really added any depth. Frankly, in all the games I've played, I've kind of wished that they'd REMOVE the climbing, instead of having the poor imitation that they have (climbing ladders in Deus Ex was a pain. It was way too easy to fall off, and it was too hard to get off at the top. Gimme an elevator any day.)

        I'm not on the Neverwinter team, so I can't say anything about how hard they've worked on the game, except from an outside-in view. These guys have seriously busted tail to make sure that the game is cool and fun and exciting. Trust me. When you get it, it'll be cool and fun and exciting. Building levels and dropping monsters in and watching them fight (they do it on their own! It's so cool!) is so damn much fun, I did it for a couple hours, just to see how the fights would go.

        So, despite my clearly biased opinion, I think that they DID do it right. I'm constantly impressed by the NWN team. In fact, I'm so impressed, and so behind this, I'm willing to sign my name to it.

        Jan Sacharuk
        Programmer
        BioWare Corp.
      • Come to think of it, has anyone heard anything BAD about NWN?

      Only that it appears to still be using the core WotC D&D rules. Don't get me wrong, I was playing basic (yes, basic) D&D way back in the day, along with the tabletop games that it was based on. The core D&D system of THAC0 and AC is basically a wargaming system designed for medium scale tabletop battles. If you strip it to the core, it's as fast to play as (e.g.) Warhammer. Now, that's fine when you're handling the mechanics yourself, but when you've got a computer available to do the hard work for you, something a little more complex and based on the actual actions you're performing would be nice. Just standing there hitting "swing" is fine for Diablo (or when you're running a party to progress and problem solve rather than for the fun of playing per se), but I'd like a few more options in an RPG.

      In addition, the play balance of D&D games is highly dependent on rules interpretations. If you're tough about spellbooks, memorising times and material components, mages are powerful but limited. If however, you forget about them (as BG and BG2 did), then mages become obscenely powerful. Mages treat spells like loose change, casting lingering invisibility and stoneskin before sleeping, for example, then again in the morning, so that they are pretty much permanently invisible and protected. Add to that the potential for offscreen "artillery strikes" with area spells, and you get a character that can control every situation and solo the game without breaking a sweat. There are also a couple of cleric spells that can be abused, and rogue backstab can get - and importantly, can look - silly. NWN should really address that, rather than leaving it up to GM's to insert anti-magic areas all over the place.

      On the plus side, NWM appears to be going back to what works. The idea that everything is scriptable makes it pretty much a MUD/MUSH/MOO, and anybody who remembers those (or still plays them) will recognise that as a good sign. I for one am very intrigued by how it will work in practice.

      • If you're tough about spellbooks, memorising times and material components, mages are powerful but limited.
        Like in the Gold Box games, where, when your spell casters were getting up there in level, and they'd need several DAYS of rest and study to refill themselves totally.
  • My summer will definitely be great now!
  • that's awesome news, hopefully we'll be able to carry over out BG2 characters to the new mmorpg. You can't beat the kensai mage duel class for single player, but the cleric mage combo in multiplayer is devastating.

    1. /mage casts dispel magic
      1. /cleric cases finger of death /dragon has been slain in 0.5 seconds

  • register (Score:5, Informative)

    by yem ( 170316 ) on Monday March 25, 2002 @07:24AM (#3220408) Homepage

    Since the release is expected to run on Windows, Mac and Linux, be sure to tick the Operating Systems selection when you register the game. Stand up and be counted!

    From the FAQ (which seems to have vanished..):

    8.04 Will there be a Mac/Linux/BeOs version?

    We are planning a simultaneous PC / Macintosh / Linux release for Neverwinter, with all three versions to be Included in a single box.

    Here's hoping...

    • On neverwinternights.com site, it's still listing as only supported under Windows 98/ME/2000sp2/XP, with a mention at the bottom of "Other OS requirements coming later." The link to that info is here [bioware.com].

      I'm hoping that it will come out for linux at the same time as it does for Windows, but I really doubt it. More likely that the linux version will come out sometime later. And at the speed of the development of NWN, look for it in 2003 :)

      • And maybe I should read the entire page before I post here :( The site specifies that it is for Windows only on those requirements already there, the other operating systems will have their info listed later.

        I think I need sleep now.

    • Re:register (Score:3, Insightful)

      by kdgarris ( 91435 )

      In addition, I would recommend ordering from a Linux reseller such as Tux Games [tuxgames.com] in order for the sale to be counted as a Linux sale.


      -Karl

  • Minsk and Boo (Score:5, Funny)

    by raelitycheckbounced ( 558540 ) on Monday March 25, 2002 @07:27AM (#3220416) Homepage Journal
    Go for the eyes Boo, Go For The Eyes!!!
    • Go for the eyes Boo, Go For The Eyes!!!

      butt kicking for goodness!

      make way evil, i am armed to the teeth and packing a hamster!

      Minsc rocks

      -Kevin

    • Magic is impressive, but now, Minsc leads. Swords for everyone!

      Or my personal favorite...

      Jan, you are not worthy of having a miniaturized giant space hampster scampering loose in your pants.

  • Anyone know if this is going to be released natively for Linux? I understand the video is all OpenGL ... God I hope Bioware take a leaf out of Carmack's book on this one.

    Q3A and RTCW are the only games I play now, cause I just can't bear to select the god awful Windows option at the LILO prompt :)
  • >"..As a fan of pen-n-paper, without the geekiness, Neverwinter Nights solves my dilemma!"

    I must say I am not very informed about the features of Neverwinter.. but computer RPG will not reach my expectations before they actually provide an option of having a live Dungeon Master (Gamemaster or whatever) in the session..

    It is the DM / GM aspect of the storytelling I liked the most. When one can have a DM to make human randomized events happen in a computer game RPG I'll finally have the digitized Pen & Paper experience I always wanted. Diablo, Baldurs Gate, even Dungeon Keeper, all were good but failed on that particular point .. (IMHO)
    • "but (a) computer RPG will not reach my expectations before they actually provide an option of having a live Dungeon Master (Gamemaster or whatever) in the session.. "

      Done. Neverwinter is designed specifically to allow this. With a set of rich and robust powerful tools allowing the DM to change the entire adventure while you are in it.
    • The in game dungeonmaster feature has been done before, In Vampire: The masquerade's multiplayer mode. It was touted as an "endless" storyline in that game too, but what happened (from what I experienced) was that everyone wanted to be a player, and the few people that actually took the time to create a scenario either placed hugely devastating weapons and/or creatures in it; there was no "storytelling" aspect to it. The trick isn't to just say 'Look, real people can make their own scenarios!", it's to make the dungeonmaster part of the game equally as fun for a player as walking around hacking monsters and collecting their things.
      • I think you may be on to something here. The thing that the pen-n-paper roleplaying games have going for them is that they are very easy to design. As a GM, I have often created very complex worlds in less time than it took the party to adventure in it.

        Sometimes, it's even nice to be able to fudge the design on the fly. For example, say you are game mastering and the party decides that they should talk to an oracle or villiage wise man before, and the place you designed has none, but you suddenly decide that the story will be more compelling for you players if it does. On the spot, you can let the party discover from one of the locals that there is a hermit in the woods to the north, or something, and while the party is looking for him, you can make other decisions, such as the character's personality (for example, simply deciding to talk like Sir Alec Guinness while playing the NPC can add a lot of color to the game). Need a castle in a pinch? Pull out an old map from a game that the current party members weren't in, re-purpose a few rooms, add a hidden door the the catacombs you want the adventrures to find, and you're done.

        NWN has the potential to really rock, but if designing a simple dungeon takes even longer than building an impressive FPS mod (as it did with Vampire:The Masquerade), I'll pass. I would rather spend my game design time coming up with interesting story twists, historical details, and entertaining characters than sitting in my basement with a graphics editor getting the interior walls of some throne room looking just right. A lack of flexibility for winging it would also make this game a poor substitute for old-school roleplay.

    • human radomized events? Diablo was fun but limited,
      What i worry about is not storyline but player interaction, actual game play.

      AC has the best gameplay but the storyline is weak, Diablo has weak gameplay (hack and slash) but great story.

      How can we have something which mixes BOTH.

      Maybe AC2, I think NWN is headed toward a more diablo with enhanced storyline scripting.

  • I think we know why it took so long (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anthracks ( 532185 ) on Monday March 25, 2002 @07:31AM (#3220431) Homepage
    I mean, pen and paper RPG without the geekiness? That's like french fries without fat, Microsoft software without bugs... *rimshot*. They probably just bit the bullet after all these wasted years and made the geekiest game in history. Which will still sell like mad; they've had an eternity to hype it and take pre-orders, after all.

  • Pre-Release Order Info from Amazon (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Neverwinter Nights
    Other products by Infogrames Entertainment

    List Price: $54.99
    Our Price: $49.99
    You Save: $5.00 (9%)
    Platform: Linux, Windows 98 / NT / 2000 / Me
    This item will be released on June 26, 2002. You may order it now and we will ship it to you when it arrives.

  • without the geekiness? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by night_flyer ( 453866 ) on Monday March 25, 2002 @07:37AM (#3220451) Homepage
    scuz me? I dont think this hobby (pen and paper rpg) is any more geeky than playing a game on a computer.

    tell my ex marine buddy that he is a geek, and he'll drive his size 11 combat boot up your nose, tell my truck driving friend that he is a geek and he will drive his big rig over you. in fact I havent had a "geek" in our pen and paper gaming group in over 10 years.

  • rightttt (Score:2, Funny)

    by laserweasel ( 568666 )
    "As a fan of pen-n-paper, without the geekiness, Neverwinter Nights solves my dilemma!" Rightttt. You can stop trying to get laid, Sparky. This is Slashdot!!

  • Don't forget... (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    That it'll also be released for the Mac and GNU/Linux platform.
    The article left that important piece of information out.

  • Beta Test Request (Score:5, Funny)

    by 1024x768 ( 113033 ) on Monday March 25, 2002 @07:49AM (#3220481)
    To: Mr. Hemos
    From: The Beta Test Department

    We regret to inform you that you have not been selected for our beta test pool *again*. We require beta testers to use spell checkers, as they are freely available.

    Regards,

    The Beta Test Department

  • I saw this a few days ago.... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Xenopax ( 238094 ) <xenopax.cesmail@net> on Monday March 25, 2002 @07:50AM (#3220486) Journal
    And I immediately started putting a group togethor to start in July (to give me enough time to write the campaign). Some people from my pen & paper group want me to tranfer my current campaign to this new system, but I told them that we should continue the pen and paper stuff since nothing beats eating chips and watching pewter figures hump each other while I frantically try to find the AC of an orc.
  • Guys,

    I checked the link and looked all around.

    I don't see June 25 posted anywhere on their site. Under pre-orders, it simply refers you to EB, Toys r Us etc. No date is listed.

    No date that I can discern is mentioned anywhere - and no release date mentioned on Bioware's announcements page in the NWN forums.

    Vapor_announcements now? What gives?
  • This game is going to be great. You know from playing everquest and watching it for the past 3 years i have noticed something. The anonymousy of the internet has spawned a whole new group of people interested in RPGs.

    RPGs have always been considered something 'geeks' do, but I've recenlty spent some time actually meeting some players of everquest in real life. There are more playing in my area than I ever thought there was. Most of these people I met were not 'geeks' but people enjoying life and expierences more than a lot of 'non-geek' people. I've seen active athletes play everquest, a lot of people we wouldnt think would do it.

    NWN could be a great thing for D&D, it could change the way people look at D&D and more people might start to appreciate it. I think it could open peoples minds to different possibilities. I'm not saying that it will, but I've been amazed at what I found just playing EQ which has been active on the market for 3 years.

    I cant wait for this game to be released :).
    • I know it's not intended that way, but this reads like a troll. You're suggesting what, that D&D geeks all must have taped-up glasses, pimples, and a cracking program for porn site passwords? This was never the case, not even in the heyday of D&D.

      D&D was a big part of my life in high school, and that of my friends. We were geeks in the sense that we were well-read, obsessed with weird details, interested in technology and willing to explore our fantasy. We also had an awesome garage band, crazy parties and fairly hot girlfriends who didn't mind occasionally taking a break from dice rolling for a marathon fuck. Maybe the high school jocks didn't think we were very cool, but that didn't make us rejects. I shudder to think how shitty my HS experience would have been had I not fallen in with "D&D geeks"--they were some of the coolest people I have ever known.

  • Bioware has released a model viewer that shows some of the models to be included in NWN. It's pretty cool, "Walk", "Run", "Attack", panning, zooming , etc.

    Check out the following links for a taste of some of the models, according to the bioware forums they'll be releasing more models for the viewer. As it stands, they have the Flesh Golem and Bugbear, which can be added to the viewers default models...nifty...

    Biowares Model Viewer Page [bioware.com]

    I have been kind of wary of computer gaming to replace good ol' AD&D, IMHO they always fell short, although netHack does a decent job in the realm of adventure story lines and thought process (ie hacking and slashing everything is not the goal). NWN, although unlikely to displace me from an old tech AD&D game might be a cool complement. Now if we could host AD&D games for our (now) geographically dispersed group that would be cool. Of course it would be different than our old sessions, but it might be fun, and change (at times) can be good.

    • Unfortunately, the model viewer is Windows only. The included tooset used to create new adventures is also only coming out on windows (long story). The creature viewer does not currently work under Wine, but it is built using the same technology as the toolset, os if someone can make Wine run the creature viewer, there's a good chance the toolset will run as well.

      /Janne
    • "Now if we could host AD&D games for our (now) geographically dispersed group that would be cool."

      You may want to check out GRIP [rpgrealms.com].

  • 50% Linux support (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Tom ( 822 ) on Monday March 25, 2002 @08:59AM (#3220718) Homepage Journal
    One: I love them for supporting Linux and releasing the game for it at the same time as the windos version.

    Two: Don't forget that the toolkit, i.e. the parts that you need to create your own campaign, are currently windos only.
    Reasons are some missing tool (C++ Builder or something, currently in beta for Linux).

    For me, the toolkit is the only reason to buy NWN. I don't like (A)D&D, but I'd swallow it if it means I can run online campaigns.

    • And also kudos for supporting Win, Mac and Linux on the same CD. If a developer is serious about multi-platform support, it should always be on the same CD. Platform voting can be handled at registration time. Although big chains like CompUSA now sell Macs along with PCs, they stock few if any games in their tiny Mac software section, and nothing for Linux. I appreciate the cross-platform compatibility even when I'm buying only the Windows version - we are a mixed Mac/PC household and home office, and I'm one hell of a lot more likely to buy a new game or other software for the PC if I get instant assurance that the same version is also available for the Mac.

  • Release date clarification (Score:5, Informative)

    by StarTux ( 230379 ) on Monday March 25, 2002 @09:20AM (#3220811) Journal
    I believe that the release date was achieved via the game stores, and trust me they don't know as much as they seems to suggest:

    "BioWare's new publishing partner, Infogrames, has just announced in their press release that Neverwinter Nights will be launched worldwide in Summer, 2002. We apologize for the delay in getting back to you during the day today - we want to try to clarify this date announcement since so many people have been posting about it on the message boards.

    Please understand that we are committed to releasing games when they are finished, polished and ready for the world. For a game as complex, epic and multifaceted as Neverwinter Nights, this is especially the case. The massive scope and flexibility intrinsic in the Toolset, the DM Client and the Official Campaign will be unprecedented in the gaming world and, as a result, we must carefully test every aspect of Neverwinter Nights. With a new publisher, there is a new plan for marketing, QA, localization and distribution.

    To that end, BioWare and Infogrames now feel that Summer 2002 (which could mean as early as May or June) is a good conservative estimate of the distribution date - guaranteeing a game worthy of the quality inherent under the titles of Dungeons and Dragons, Infogrames and BioWare. We are still aiming for the same development completion targets that we were aiming for in the past, but Infogrames and BioWare both want to provide a safe target window for the game to be ready in terms of the things that are covered by the publisher working in conjunction with the development team - distribution, localization, marketing and testing.

    Thanks - as always as we get more information we'll update you. Our fans are very important to us.

    Ray Muzyka Greg Zeschuk
    Joint CEO's BioWare Corp. "

    Please clarify your sources as Bioware have always firmly stated that it will shoot for a release when ready, and to them Summer is the best guess.

    MAtt
  • This game takes us back to the good old table top games of our (well mine anyway) youth. However, this game's future I do not feel will be decided by graphics and the like alone, but on how many folks put the time and effort into being good quality GMs for all of us hoping to get online and have a great adventure. Here we have the chance to go beyond the standard kill-to-level and empty quest worlds of EQ and DAoC (which I play both), but a chance to get together with friends, make new ones and have great adventures......if the GM's story dosent suck and he can make good maps :)
  • Yes....

    The game has been available for pre-order for some time now (at least from Amazon); however, if you read the interesting posts on the Bioware boards.... Snickering about Slashdot [bioware.com] you'll undoubtably just let your pre-order rest (quite possibly past the aformentioned date in June).

    • this seems pretty familiar, I guess we are supposed to aimlessly buy this game for it's uncanny marketing and sly special pre-order offers. I find that usually when the company wants you to buy the game before you see it there is a pretty good reason for it. I think waiting until June would probably be the best financial option. ;)

  • The keys to success (Score:3, Insightful)

    by yndrd ( 529288 ) on Monday March 25, 2002 @10:53AM (#3221328) Homepage
    1. A simple adventure design engine. If the DM has to learn some horrific and cumbersome system to run a simple game, he or she is going to go back to pen and paper.

    You've got to get a community going like you have with the FPS games--large numbers of people cranking out maps (some good, many bad) with software that (while not trivial to use) isn't a huge pain in the ass.

    2. Some facility to improvise. Any DM can tell you that the players NEVER follow the plan, and some ability for the DM to make modifications in the game on the fly ("Damn. They're going over there. Better generate some NPCs.") will make a better experience. Anything else locks the players into what seems as static as any ordinary so-called RPG.
  • since the stated goals of Bioware were to create a computerized pen-and-paper system, where you have the same dynamics of interaction (including an optional DM) but now with graphics and pretty stuff... will this take off like the original D&D did, or are too many already wrapped up in MMORPG's?

    Also, while I greatly anticipate this game and personally think it will do great, I am still curious about a system using non D&D 'rules' but made in a modular system as they are. Well as they claim, who knows what it will really be like until the final is released? I think D&D rules did a great job for simplifying a very complex system through short cuts and probability rolls. However, pretend graphics was not an issue. Are there computerized systems out there for a much more complex rules system in existence now? I am just thinking that computers could give us the ability to be much more complex, and do things that would have taken 4 hours of complex rolls, table lookups, conversions and decisions by a team of DMs for just one 'move'. It seems that we still see the same simplified systems (levels and battle heavy systems that allow little if no flexibility to role play), but with graphics and sound.

    Not to say graphics and sound are 'bad', they can be used to augment the immersion factor of the game. But I have yet to see any game, movie or TV show that could ever come close to portraying what my imagination can picture when reading a well writen story/novel. So, should I just adjust to what is out there, or are there any efforts underway to use the more advanced power of computers to help us create more complex worlds and systems? I would even be interested in computer programs that let you continue to have table top games, but now you have lap tops and such that connect to actually calculate moves, combat, skill, reactions and the like... I guess you could have primative graphics to 'help' then too... but only primative if the CPU is too bogged down with the system calculations. (I guess it is obvious where my priorities lie :)

  • DN4R (Score:2)

    by CAIMLAS ( 41445 )
    For crying out loud, I'd almost forgotten about DN4R, and I'd originally been anticipating the game with fervor. It better be one hell of a game for all the delay it's seen.

    For some reason, though, I'm getting the feeling it's going to be another Dikataina (or whatever that slop was called). Despite the reputation that 3drealms has for producing some pretty kickass games, and the quality of entertainment that DN3D provided, things just look bleak.

    At the very least, I'm hoping for decent network play - what's currently out there is fairly stale IMO: a lot of the same old stuff. CS doesn't do it anymore for me, and I was tired of the WWII TF-like game variety a while ago (DoD player) - I look forward to Duke Nukem's pipe bombs and laser trip wires again. :) Still, they'll have to greatly optimize the crappy network code in the UT engine for network play to be less painless. :(

    To stay on topic, Neverwinter looks fantastic. For BG or DnD fans, this definately looks like The Title to get. :)
  • I guess most of you don't read the NWN boards. As of 10am PST, 3/25/02, THERE IS NO OFFICIAL RELEASE DATE.

    Retailers are taking preorders, and they have to post a release date or some people won't order, so they made one up. They have been doing this for quite awhile, and many people have fallen into their trap.

    A quick look at the official NWN forums will reveal the truth. Check there periodically if you want to know when an official announcement is made. The very first posting is always the Release Date Clarification:

    http://forums.bioware.com/viewforum.php?forum=7& 99 229

    Here's a quote:

    "BioWare and Infogrames now feel that Summer 2002 (which could mean as early as May or June) is a good conservative estimate of the distribution date."

  • "3 and a half month pre-order...release floor...is not!"

  • Is this a repost? (Score:3, Funny)

    by Zeekamotay ( 115667 ) <zeekamotay@hotmailWELTY.com minus author> on Monday March 25, 2002 @02:00PM (#3222815)
    Didn't we just do the "Most Outrageous Vendor Lies Ever Told" story?
  • Two reasons:

    1) Retailers lie. The time which they begin to take preorders and the time which the game is released are generally two unrelated events.

    2) Quality issues. You know and I know that games are quite often NOT stable on release and even non-playable (Ultima 9 comes to mind.) By pre-ordering (since games are non returnable) you are essentially saying "I don't care! Take this interest-free loan! I'll wait until you patch it and make it into the thing I bought in the store!"

    Preordering is reinforcing bad behavior on the part of the retailers ("Those gamers will buy it even when it doesn't exist! Fuckin' a! Put up any old date!") and game companies ("Who cares if the game is unplayable. These fuckers already bought it, release it NOW NOW NOW. We'll patch it in a few weeks.")
  • Update: 03/25 12:38 GMT by Hemos:Just a small note: I'm still available for beta-testing. *grin* CT: Hemos is not available for beta-testing. He has work to do first ;)


    Damn, CT's not even married yet, and yet you can already clearly see her influence on him here! :-) ;-)

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