PS2 Price May Fall, Gamecube Staying Put 401
mrquackers writes: "Looks like the price war in the console gaming world is starting a bit early. With Microsoft expected to announce a drop in the price of the Xbox to $199 next Monday at E3, Sony's rumored to be cutting PlayStation 2 prices as early as tomorrow. Meanwhile, Nintendo says it won't be making ANY price cuts before or during the show -- though it's not ruling one out for later in the year." Update: 05/14 18:01 GMT by T : An anonymous reader points out this CNN story indicating that the PS2 cut is official.
It's Official (Score:3, Informative)
Even the PS One is getting a price cut to $50
Re:It's Official (Score:2, Informative)
Re:It's Official (Score:2)
Re:Why would anyone want to buy a PS1? (Score:2)
Would rather have the PS2, run linux [playstation2-linux.com], pleay PS1 games, PS2 games, ad DVD's.
$200 for the box, $200 for the Linux Kit, and a freaking huge game library. Not a bad deal.
Re:Why would anyone want to buy a PS1? (Score:2, Insightful)
If I were a parent with young kids, and didn't have much money, the PS1 would seem like a good plan to me.
Jon
Re:Why would anyone want to buy a PS1? (Score:3, Insightful)
Exactly! That is what I did. First, I am NOT goin to spend $40 or more on a single game, period. Over the last couple months, I have bought all kinds of PS1 games off ebay for $6 to $20 each (after shipping). Also, I have burned copies of most of them so that my two year old can safely play games while the originals are kept out of reach.
But the really interesting part of the story.. (Score:4, Informative)
Falling prices? (Score:3, Funny)
PS2 price drop GOOD! (Score:4, Funny)
Re:PS2 price drop GOOD! (Score:3, Funny)
It's about time (Score:4, Insightful)
Well maybe I can afford a PS2 now so I can be the last kid on my block to play FFX.
Re:It's about time (Score:2)
I thought I bought a game console depending on what games run on it.
Like I knew that Sega beat PS hardware-wise, but I still bought PS because I want to play FF V.
Re:It's about time (Score:2)
Every time I listen to a sales guy on commission, which would be (let me count) exactly nonce. I don't buy (license, listen to, watch etc) anything until it's been out for six months or so, i.e. until the initial hype and price premium have abated and you can base your investment of money or time on trusted peer reviews rather than bought-and-paid-for professional reviews. That way you get by far the best bang-per-buck, and you don't waste time or lose sleep over making the wrong decision. It's a winning strategy for movies, music, PC hardware, operating systems and especially games consoles.
Wow (Score:4, Interesting)
Gamecube launched here at £130 ($189), X-Box is £199 ($289), PS2 is £199 with a pretty certain price-drop on the way.
Interesting how different the prices are worldwide (Score:2, Insightful)
I find it hard to understand why the PS2 hasn't fallen in the US before now - I guess it was still selling...
Still, all of this can only be good for consumers. All the boxes are basically ridiculously cheap now. Of course the games are still pretty expensive - but buying online can still save you a fortune.
Jon
Re:Interesting how different the prices are worldw (Score:2)
(Gamecube was intentionally omitted from my statement because of the fact that it really caters to a completely separate niche market - mostly children and early teens - and as yet has not really factored into Sony or MS's sales.)
Price Wars, Schmice Wars (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Differences (Score:5, Funny)
Yup, little kide love romping around a dark stormy mansion with a shotgun trying to blow a zombie's head off while they get bitten into, blood splattering, screaming and struggling until they fall onto the floor and a huge puddle of blood surrounds them.
Yup, kids are covered.
Re:Differences (Score:3)
Nintendo price drop (Score:2, Interesting)
I'm still holding out for one, since at $149 to $129 (or dare I think it: $99) I would be incredibly happy to finally get one. Besides, just because Nintendo says they won't be cutting prices, doesn't mean that it won't happen. Hell, just 6 days ago Sony was saying they wouldn't be making any price cuts at E3:
source [ign.com]
Nintendo may not have a choice (Score:2)
The reason is simple: who wants to pay US$200 for a dedicated gaming machine when for the same price you get much more powerful consoles that have DVD playback capability and broadband gaming ready to go? Nintendo runs a huge risk of losing a large amount of purchasers to Sony and Microsoft thanks to Sony's price drop and Microsoft's soon-to-announce price drop.
Being an Avid Console Gamer (Score:2)
Now that xbox has dropped(or will) drop to 200 range.. I'd might actually get one.. hate to say it.. since i'm personally against giving MS any of my earned cash(bla bla bla bla). But i have been impressed with some of the graphics i've seen on the xbox and it sounds like it can be a great system(has potenential)..
I guess the worst case is that I'll pay 200 bux for a 40gb IDE drive
As for Nintendo's new gamecube... its limited.. but hey its a gaming platform.. thats all.. i think i'll wait and see how good metroid will really be before i consider buying this one.
just a few honest thoughts about price drops here
Re:Being an Avid Console Gamer (Score:2, Funny)
Just noticed my brand new DVD player can't play Gamecube games either! What a waste of money!
Hint: GAMECUBE - it's a CUBE that plays GAMES!!!
I'd bet good money you have a CD player and a DVD player already, at least in your PC. Why would anyone want their game console to play anything but games?
Re:Being an Avid Console Gamer (Score:2)
Re:Being an Avid Console Gamer (Score:3, Interesting)
You're fooling yourself if you thik you can reasonably salvage anything from an XBox at this point in time. Sure, if you have the proper test equipment, you can watch the XBox unlock the HD, but that's more work than it's worth for an 8 GB HD for most of us. If any of you has a broken XBox or knows of a good place to pick up one for free, I'm sure I could find some MIT students willng to play with the BIOS encryption this Summer. Luckily as the price falls, more people are willing to risk breaking their XBoxes in order to reverse-engineer the BIOS encryption.
If somoeone finally breaks the BIOS encryption on the XBox (or figures out a safe way to bypass the decryption while loading the BIOS) and we get Linux BIOS or Open BIOS on the XBox, I'd be mighty tempted to pick up an XBox or four. After all, I'm only running a 266 MHz with 288 MB of RAM really is fine for almost everything.).
Boycott Sony? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Boycott Sony? (Score:5, Funny)
I guess you didn't get the new revised itinerary...sorry!!
Anyway, the new schedule is:
Monday: Boycott Sony/MPAA
Tuesday: Relax, check out new tech products and video games.
Wednesday: Boycott RIAA, Call congresscritters over latest atrocious bill.
Thursday: Relax, check out the latest CDs coming on the market.
Friday: Boycott the MPAA in the daytime, go see a movie at night.
Saturday & Sunday: Pretend we have lives outside of work and don't post on Slashdot.
Microsoft Harakiri (Score:3, Interesting)
Microsoft sells Xbox underpriced - making a loss per each sold product. Meanwhile as the modchips [xbox-scene.com] have already been released, Microsoft is digging another hole for themselves: they have created the perfect platform for cheap Linux based homecomputer, again, project(s) already going [h07.org]. Once this evolvs into a easy-to-setup Linux home computer: voila!
Summasummarum, Microsoft's bully tactics may well prove as the ultimate bullet to their own head. They will end up loosing both because of hardware and because of lost Windows license fees. Eventually, loosing around $200 because of every sold Xbox. Thanks.
Losses are irrelevant... (Score:2)
NES cut to $10, Games just $1 (Score:2)
Emulation is ok, but the real thing is perfect.
XBox: Dead in Japan, Dying in Europe (Score:5, Funny)
The only question remaining for the XBox and Microsoft is whether or not the XBox can be a viable product in only 1 of the 3 major consoles markets. Japan and Europe are over for the XBox. For whatever reason people in those two major markets didn't buy the XBox. And once a product flops as badly as the XBox has in those markets, it is difficult, if not impossible to recover.
Points of fact:
(1) Halo sold a mere 5,000 copies in the most recent week in Japan. The most of any XBox title.
(2) Following its hugely successful launch in Europe, Nintendo is dominating the software charts there and will most likely easily slip into the "PS2 alternative" slot which the XBox had coveted.
(3) Recent data shows the Cube outselling the XBox in the US.
The larger implications of the XBox having failed in both Europe and Japan are that third party game support will soon trickle away. It simply won't make economic sense for game makers to support the XBox when its only market is a small piece of the US pie. Microsoft has managed to bribe/buy out/conjole a tepid welcome for the XBox after its launch and through the next 6 months. But once those game makers see how badly the box is selling, that support will quickly fade away.
The hard truth really is quite simple for Microsoft: the XBox will _never_ succeed with only a portion of the US market. Without 3rd party support the XBox is DEAD.
Re:XBox: Dead in Japan, Dying in Europe (Score:2)
Halo was never launched in Japan. Microsoft knows that FPS games don't sell at all in Japan. There is no Halo over there.
You must have been thinking about Dead or Alive 3. It's not selling very well either. A couple weeks ago I saw the XBox sales chart where the Wonderswan was outselling the XBox.
The XBox is dead in Japan.
Re:XBox: Dead in Japan, Dying in Europe (Score:2)
Re:XBox: Dead in Japan, Dying in Europe (Score:2)
Listen to: http://biz.yahoo.com/oo/020502/73479.html
Also see the game charts at:
www.the-magicbox.com.
Re:XBox: Dead in Japan, Dying in Europe (Score:5, Insightful)
Since then, XBOX sales are neck and neck [msn.com] with PS2 sales.
However, don't let facts get in the way of your analysis.
Re:XBox: Dead in Japan, Dying in Europe (Score:2)
Your Micrsoft press release really is pathetic evidence of anything aside from the fact that Microsoft is one of the better marketers (pathological liars) out there. Do you have anything else?
Take a close look at your press release. Microsoft cut the price of the XBox on the 26th of April. This naturally resulted in a large short-term increase in sales as many of the fence sitters and hard core gamers picked up the system. They then sample data from the week of the 29th of April ( (1) Data from ChartTrack, 29 April 2002) to support this assertion: "Xbox represents 49% of the next generation console market in the United Kingdom".
I can guarantee you based on the pathetic sales of XBox prior to the 29th of April, that there was zero chance of the XBox representing ~50% of sales of next gen consoles in Europe up to that point in time from the XBox launch. Microsoft is feeding you its typical line of bullshit and you are only too happy to open up and swallow.
If XBox sales are so strong in Europe, then why is another price drop being rumored (http://www.cube-europe.com/news/102137936781456.
Here is a question for you. How many total units has XBox shipped in Europe? That's right you don't know. You don't know because MS is afraid to release such figures. They won't even release estimates. The only numbers that matter are total units shipped. And even that number can be deceptive because total units shipped doesn't always translate into total units purchased.
Nintendo has shipped 400,000 Cubes in Europe since their launch. A number that has been backed up by others in the industry.
Visit this site to see European software sales: http://www.elspa.com/.
Re:XBox: Dead in Japan, Dying in Europe (Score:2)
Why Should Nintendo Price Drop? (Score:2)
Here are the current prices from EB Games [ebgames.com]
So, why should Nintendo drop their price? The PS2 is currently the same price, but it's also been out a full year longer. That's not reason enough for it to be cheaper, but most people think that way. So, the system to compare price with is the XBox. It's already cheaper, and after the price drop, it'll be the same price.
Nintendo has no real reason to drop their prices, now. The rumored price drop later this year? It'll probably be just in time for Christmas.
Re:Why Should Nintendo Price Drop? (Score:2)
The PS2 is using the price drop to build momentum for Christmas. If Nintendo doesn't want to get left behind the race, they'll need to drop prices and start dishing out the games. I really have yet to see a flagship game for the Gamecube. Whereas PS2 has GTA3, GT A-spec, MGS2, and quite a few other ones that make you want to buy the platform just to play that game.
The XBox has a serious pressure now as the PS2 takes it to Microsoft. Looks like the XBox will have to follow suit for the same reasons. Although Halo rules, they do need a few more jaw-droppers. Sorry Oddworld just didn't do it for me.
price drop great for Xbox (Score:2)
Since then the Xbos has been outselling the PS2 at about 4:1.
To keep everyone who bought an XBox before the price drop happy, MS are giving away an AU$250 package, 2 games + 1 controller. It took 4 days from sending application to receiving the package.
Re:MicroSofts downfall (Score:2, Funny)
Anyone with any idea of market forces will be able to confirm this.
And anyone with any idea of the console market would realise you only make the loss on consoles you sell (- stock) and that the whole basis of the market is to lose money on the console to claw it back on the games. But don't let that get in the way of your ms-bashing!
Re:MicroSofts downfall (Score:2)
My issue with the previous posting is that Microsoft uses the monopoly money from MS Windows to fund all these other Window-ized ventures when they should have failed a long time ago. Again, the market is NOT deciding what's going on. Cash is.
By the way, I'm told the games on Xbox look good but don't play very well. The ads show the pretty ones and people don't like them when they get to playing them. PS2 and GameCube have more playable games. Again, Microsoft needs to buy out the PS2 and GameCube developers to make Xbox work.
$40 billion in cash might allow them to do this but I doubt Sony and Nintendo will stand still.
IMO.
LoB
Re:MicroSofts downfall (Score:4, Insightful)
Mind you consumers are gaining in the meantime so whos complaining
If the X-Box is responsible for one thing, it's being the catalyst for console prices to drop dramatically at a faster rate than previous generations.
As consoles are sold at a loss anyway, getting more into gamers' homes can only be a good thing, right? At this rate, I can probably afford two different consoles, and have more choice with what I play. This is good, right?
Hell, I may even treat myself to a PSOne at that price.
Only Xbox is at a loss. (Score:2)
Sony has been making money on the PS2 systems since 2-3 months after they were released. They're just dropping their markup right now. Nintendo's probably only making a few percentage points on the Gamecube right now, and it uses much newer and more proprietary components than the PS2. And it doesn't have 2 years of components being refined and made cheaper yet.
MS is probably not losing any more on the Xbox because of price drops in supplies of things like the P3.
Think about normal consumer goods: everything you see probably has a 3-5x markup. A shirt that is 100$ on the rack cost 20$ tops. A 20$ shirt on the rack cost the original supplier maybe 4$. That's why they can stay in business with low sales. But consoles need high sales at first, which is why they are at a loss or break-even for the first little while. Then manufacturing advances or supplier changes modify the base costs. This allows a company to change its strategy. With Sony, it was "make money" -- with MS it's "increase penetration." Once MS has more consoles out there, they can reap the benefits of more money from 3rd parties, which is where the real money is to be made.
Re:MicroSofts downfall (Score:4, Interesting)
A good point, except for the fact that PS2 has probably gone longer without a price cut than any console in the last three generations. The E3 price cut was expected and probably wasn't driven by Microsoft - the exact timing, however, almost certainly was.
Re:MicroSofts downfall (Score:3, Informative)
And yet, Microsoft has had a phenomenal attach rate, much higher than the PS2 had even months after its launch. Let's do the math. Assume at $200, the XBox is losing $150 (the commonly quoted (but unconfirmed) numbers were losing $100 at $300, but six months after the launch, we can assume that production costs have started to go down so that this price drop won't be losing a full $200). If the XBox has an attach rate of 4 games at purchase (assume $50 each, Microsoft would make say $15 on 3rd party titles, $40 on 1st party, also assume 2 of these are Microsoft titles), plus three controllers at $50 a piece (say, $30 back to Microsoft) because halo's great fun with four players, another $30 for the DVD kit (say, $15 back to MS), and $20 ($10 to MS) for advanced connectors (S-Video or component video and digital audio). That's $15 * 2 + $40 * 2 + $30 * 3 + $15 + $10 = $225, or a $75 profit on the sale of the XBox and attached games and peripherals.
My numbers may be off, but the point here is to show that, even though the XBox console itself is sold at a loss, a profit can still be made. And a profit very likely is being made, because it's already been shown that the XBox is attaching very well (and the recent price drops in Europe et al have actually increased the attach rate of new XBoxes -- do a google search).
And just as a preemptive strike against those who would invoke the Gord [actsofgord.com] on me, I'm linking there already. He's a PS2 fanboy, and a funny author, but his maths don't add up.
Re:MicroSofts downfall (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:MicroSofts downfall (Score:3, Informative)
Your's neihter:
You assume everybody buys 3 controllers (!). Maybe one is appropriate. Royalties on games on the XBox is 8 - 9$ AFAIK, which is more than on any other console but still a lot less than 15$ you quoted. Also they are giving away games to people who bought at the expensive price, so your 4 games per console is also very optimistic.
Re:MicroSofts downfall (Score:3, Interesting)
Most of the initial "Xbox purchases" were forced bundles. If you wanted an Xbox on launch date here in the US, most places would not sell you one without buying their bundle of 3 games and an extra controller.
Compare to the PS2, which shipped as was (with a DVD player, backwards compatible to the PSOne). They didn't have to force bundle, because Sony knew they would just have to bide their time.
What's happened since then? 10 million PS2's sold in the US, 30 million worldwide, and Sony still ruling the roost by having more games out there, and more sales of games than the Xbox.
I'm not saying the Xbox is a bad system, but I will say it's a poorly managed one. Their decision not to allow simple USB connections for the keyboard/mouse I think is a bad idea (I want to use a keyboard to enter my ripped CD titles, and online play without a keyboard? Forgetaboutit.), thier "pay for broadband" is going to bite them in the ass with Nintendo stating their Ethernet/Modem controllers will work with your own ISP (aka - no fee), and their (admitted - arguable) lack of more than 3 or 4 good, exclusive titles compared to the big N and the PS2 is going to keep hurting them.
Re:MicroSofts downfall (Score:2)
You assume that EVERY XBox owner invests
300 + 4 * 60 + 3 * 50 + 30 + 20 = 740$
in his XBox.
If that's not far off, I don't know what is.
Re:MicroSofts downfall (Score:2, Interesting)
Or not. Just speaking from personal experience, the XBox controller (the large, original US one -- I haven't had a chance to try the new, smaller S/Japanese version yet) is the most comfortable console controller I've used. The PS2 controller is exactly the same as the PSOne controller, styling-wise, and those controllers always cramped my hands (I don't have especially large or small hands, btw). Just to round out the bunch, the GameCube controller feels like it took the worst of the PS2 (tiny size, flimsy design) and the N64 (oddly-placed buttons) and combined them into the single worst controller I've ever used.
The only people I know who have actually tried the XBox controller and had a problem with it were using it on one of the store displays, where the controller is locked into an uncomfortable position. These controllers were designed to fit well into your hand while reclining comfortably on your couch (thus the extra-long cords). If you've not tried an XBox controller in such a scenario, I suggest you try it. Play for a couple hours, and then see how you like it. Unless you have extremely small hands, I'll bet you'll end up preferring the XBox controller. It fits well in your hand, gives you easy access to the main controls, feels like a good sturdy power tool rather than a flimsy piece of plastic, and doesn't leave you all cramped up after an extended playing session.
Re:MicroSofts downfall (Score:2)
American and Japanese versions. They are quite
comfortable. Not that I really have a problem with
the PS2 controllers either...
My favorite feature of the XBox controllers though,
is the breakaway cables. It was very considerate of
MS to implement those cables for people who like to
place their boxes in precarious positions. These
should keep people from pulling their boxes off
shelves and breaking them.
Then again, considering how heavy XBoxes are,
maybe the breakaway cables are there to prevent
things like this [slashdot.org]from happening. I mean, how do
we know MS wasn't doing XBox development in the
Arctic back in '93? =)
Re:MicroSofts downfall (Score:3, Informative)
Re:MicroSofts downfall (Score:2)
Re:MicroSofts downfall (Score:2)
The cell phone market isn't working very well anymore... most of the companies don't give away phones anymore, because they realized they really can't afford to do this with an 80% annual churn rate (after 1 year 80% of customers drop service).
Most of them are bleeding green all over the floor and don't know how to stop it.
Re:MicroSofts downfall (Score:2)
Re:MicroSofts downfall (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:MicroSofts downfall (Score:2, Informative)
That wasn't the link, this [xbox-scene.com] is the one I was meant to post.
Re:MicroSofts downfall (Score:3, Informative)
No, not really. I did help in some Nintendo's game development about 7-10 years ago here is the figure(roughly, may vary in other place):
Game development kit: US$200,000.00
License to develop a game(including NDA your company need to sign): US$13,000.00
After you developed the game and made the mother chip, you need to send the chip back to Nintendo for mass product. They will send the result chips back to you. (Yes, you don't own it, you buy back the chips from Nintendo) Cost to buy back the chips (minimal 5000 a bulk) is approx.: $20x5000 = US$100,000.00
Not to mention the cost to package, market and promote your production. You must pay a certain amount of money to Nintendo if you care to market it(loyality fee, and fee to use the trademark something). Cost = unknown, depend on the scale and market.
In the process they earned at least US$313,000 excluding marketing. If the sales is good they will get part of your revenue - don't forget, you don't own the product you made, they own it. You were just given the right to market and sell it.
My friends and I left the field because it's too hard for same game development company to survive. I believe things has changed now, but the business model is more or less the same(anyone would update me?).
So, don't think they'd ever lose money selling console cheap.
Re:MicroSofts downfall (Score:2)
Six months is hardly an eternity, and you're talking about a company that has more cash to spend than any other. I personally think the Xbox's long-term prospects will be decided during the next holiday season. If the games are there and the online portion shows promising results, the MS will keep pouring cash into it. They *really* want into this market.
Re:MicroSofts downfall (Score:2)
The XBox will hurt Microsoft badly. Not only financially (where it is a desaster already, how much do they lose @ 200$ sales price?) but more importantly, they will lose their image of automatically succeeding and setting standards.
How often do people by MS because "it's the standard" or "it will become the standard"? Well the latter reason could evaporate because the XBox demonstrates that MS-technologies do not automatically become standards.
Re:MicroSofts downfall (Score:2)
Their growth rate is stalling (Linux eats large chunks of server sales) and they are spreading tenticles out all over to find another place to control. Like I said before, they have a VERY bad record outside of the Windows monopoly. IMHO.
LoB
Re:Nope! (Score:2)
Reducing their expectations from 6 to 4 million is part of their plan?
Reducing their price within 1 month of release in Europe is part of their plan?
Having European and Japanese stores cancel XBox orders is part of their plan?
Nonsense.
XBox is a failure, live with it. And there won't be a XBox2 because the few people (like you for example) who still have faith in Microsoft and XBox will be pissed off very much when it officially fails.
P.S.: And I didn't even start to point out how insane it is to compare a multi-billion dollar enterprise like Sony with a tiny startup like Netscape.
Re:Nope! (Score:2)
but remember when internext explorer came out and it was a big piece of poop and netscape kicked it's ass? the problem is that microsoft is such a big giant that it can afford to have losers, because it really cashes in when it makes a winner.
I predict there will definately be an Xbox2, although I don't think it will be succesfull either.
care to wager a Guinness?
Re:Nope! (Score:2)
Remember, all roads lead to Windows.
I still laugh at how Microsoft paid AT&T $5 billion to use WinCE but couldn't get their TV software going so AT&T took the money and went elsewhere.
Of course $40 billion in cash lets them do this time and time again. This will hurt Sony's profits for sure.
IMHO
LoB
Re:Xbox (Score:2)
im no MS fan, but the x-box is one of the few things they got "right"... the console is rock solid stable, and it has better hardware than any of the other systems. the only possible legitimate criticism of it is their game library when compared to the ps2 (gamecube is no better in hardware or games)
anyways i don't want to turn this into some fanboi console bashin thread, but frankly even as a non MS supporter i will tell you that the x-box is a very solid entry into the console market... and with Bill Gates willing to finance a billion or so per year on write offs, to get his foot into the door of the console market, don't be surprised if it eventually succeeds, the guy has more cash than god himself and he usually gets what he wants (as if we didn't know that allready)
Re:Xbox (Score:2)
im no MS fan, but the x-box is one of the few things they got "right"...
Right in what way? It's big, it's clunky, and it feels like a modified PC, not a gaming system. Both of the X-Boxes I've played felt less responsive than my PS2. MS fans (and in your case, non MS fans) rave about the "better hardware", but there's no evidence that all the "better hardware" that went into the X-Box has made a better console. The graphics look the same, the games load more slowly and feel less responsive, the controllers are too big and feel uncomfortable. Unfortunately, I can't see how the X-Box has done anything "right".
and with Bill Gates willing to finance a billion or so per year on write offs, to get his foot into the door of the console market, don't be surprised if it eventually succeeds
People have to buy the console before it becomes popular. And I just can't see that happening to the extent that the X-Box will overtake the PS2. There is no compelling reason to switch, and there are numerous reasons to stick to the PS2. Personally, I'll skip the X-Box and wait for the PS3.
Re:Xbox (Score:2)
You seem so very biased against it that you probably had this opinion before you even tried the XBox. There's no way an objective person can be so negative towards this product. "PS2 games feel more responsive"? What kind of BS is that? I've played games that are on both platforms and they feel the same (other then the XBox's more comfortable controller). So what if the XBox is a few cubic inches bigger then a PS2? Add the Multitap, Harddrive/Internet addons and the PS2 becomes clunky pretty quick. Is it more clunky then the GC? Maybe I'll buy that, the GC is pretty elegant. There's no evidence of "better hardware"? I would LOVE to see a console handle the graphics of DOA3, Rallisport Challenge, or even Halo. Read any "cross console" game review and the reviewers almost always say that the graphics where noticeably superior on the XBox.
I'm not trying to argue that the XBox is "the best" or even better then any of the current consoles. However, there's a point where a bias is so strong that it's based on what you personally want to believe then what you can objectively observe. It amazes me how "technically minded people" who's personality generally thrives on logic and reason all of the sudden get emotional and irrational about GAME CONSOLES!
Re:Xbox (Score:2, Funny)
Thanks for clearing that up - at first I thought you were talking about Sid Meier.
Re:Xbox (Score:2)
This is what they did to Netscape. Eliminated their income and prevented them from improving the product. Not all developers work for free and the ones that do will do so on their schedule.
Microsoft NEEDS another monopoly badly and the home entertainment center is it. WebTV failed so they are going where they already know what the numbers are. Sony and Nintendo are no Netscape so I hope they use lawyers very quickly if Microsoft starts going in and damaging their game developer base or starts giving the hardware away for free.
I hate lawyers, but THIS monopoly is very bad for consumers. IMHO.
LoB
Haven't seen that particular problem, but... (Score:2)
After chosing a game to play and a character to use, a load screen appeared... and stayed there... for 5 mins... until I hit the reset button.
Haven't heard of that happening, but it wouldn't surprise me that much. Recall that the X-Box prototype crashed at a developer conference when Microsoft were demoing it.
I haven't experienced any crashes with X-Boxes I've used, but in all honesty, I just don't see the benefit of the X-Box over the PS2. MS supporters claim that the graphics and the hardware is leaps and bounds ahead of the PS2, but I just don't see it. The graphics look pretty much the same to me. The X-Box is a lot more uncomfortable to play due to its huge controllers. Added to this, the XBoxes aren't available here yet (South Africa) (or at least, they weren't at the time I tested one), a friend of mine had to get one from the UK.PS2s, on the other hand, are widely available and popular. I don't know about the situation elsewhere, but here in South Africa the PS2 has by far the biggest market share. Almost everyone I know has a PS2, only one person I know had an X-Box, and he stopped using it after a few weeks and went back to his PS2.
Re:Haven't seen that particular problem, but... (Score:2)
MS supporters claim that the graphics and the hardware is leaps and bounds ahead of the PS2, but I just don't see it. The graphics look pretty much the same to me.
On paper, yeah, the hardware sounds alright. But in practice, when you have to use DirectX and hope for the best, whilst your PS2 engine is nicely tuned.. no way.
Re:Haven't seen that particular problem, but... (Score:2)
There are two circumstances under which I can tell the difference between an XBox and a PS2.
- I've fed the input from my PS2 into my computer. Don't ask.
;-)
- They're sitting side by side, on pause.
Any other circumstance and the poly count is high enough that I can't tell. And in both cases, the only way I can see the difference is nit-picking along form edges-- something I can't do when they are in motion on screen.I don't care if the XBox is better or not: as far as I see, the difference (and I've seen one) is too small to matter.
Re:Haven't seen that particular problem, but... (Score:2)
Re:Temptations of a PS2 (Score:2)
Re:I play console games because (Score:2)
Sounds like someone needs to work on their PC skills. Either that or quit trying to run PC games in a Wine session running on a Linux PPC system. I'm not a hardcore gamer, but I do play frequently and it has been a long time since I've had any of the kinds of problems that you mention.
The thing is, since everyone uses PCs nowdays, even thinks that makes them an "expert." That couldn't be farther from the truth.
Re:Gamecube? (Score:5, Informative)
In my opinion, either one of Super Monkey Ball [sega.com] or Super Smash Brothers [smashbrothers.com] completely make the purchase of a system justified.
On the one hand, you have encapsulated monkeys flying at several hundred MPH into various objects, gliding through the air aiming for targets, and screeching like maniacs as the cue ball approaches.
On the other hand, you get to get some friends together, and beat the crap out of Pikachu....
Both complete winners in my view...
Pikmen also looks like another must have - maybe I'll pick up a copy of that over the summer, along with another cube for myself.
Re:Gamecube? (Score:2)
I've played with the other two and they don't come close to the Cube in just pure gaming experience. For example, Super Monkey Ball is the most addictive thing since Tetrisphere.
Re:Gamecube? (Score:2)
Wait a little longer until Metroid, and Zelda come out not only will more people buy the platform for these "franchise" games, the older guys will start to get more attracted to the system and you'll see more about it.
Re:Gamecube? (Score:2)
A friend of mine just got back from visiting his family and his wife's family. Apparently one side bought them a Gamecube and the other side bought them an Xbox. He hasn't even bothered to plug in the Xbox yet, but the Gamecube is pretty cool. We played some last night. Super Monkeyball is a blast, as if Super Smash Brothers. They also had that SSX Tricky snowboarding game which was pretty decent, in a cartoony way.
Maybe if I'm lucky I can hijack his Xbox and play some F1 2001...
Re:Price dumping (Score:5, Informative)
Console makers have always taken a loss on the initial batches of the consoles as a matter of course, the games were the money makers. Half of the cost of a new game goes back into the pockets of whoever makes the console. It costs a bit of money to have that Sony Entertainment or Nintendo logo pop up when the game starts. The consoles merely existed to play the games on. When a console maker hit black they'd drop the price of the console to just above cost and soak up the profit from licensing. Sony has been making a profit off the PS2 for a while now because with the XBox aiming at the same demographics the price of the PS2 hasn't needed to drop. They've sold millions of PS2s and made many more millions off all the blockbuster games for it. Microsoft might be taking a small loss or just operating on a razor thin margin with the XBox but they're not losing hundreds of dollars per freaking console.
Re:Price dumping (Score:2)
Ehh... you know that Microsoft lost $10 - $15 on each sold console when the first launced it (I am too lazy to find a link for you, but I'm sure a quick search on google will get you a few), they said it themselves.
Now, I may not be a great mathematician, but if you add $100 to $10, then you get a total of $115
So, this is probably what they are loosing for each sold console today. Alright... it's not several hundred, but it is over one hundred... which is way more than any other console.
Don't you think there's something wrong with the X-Box if Microsoft has to loose that much to get them sold??
It's price dumping... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:This could hurt Nintendo (Score:2)
Aside from that, I really can't see adding another huge console to my cabinet just for games. The Cube fits nicely right next to my TV (width & depth aren't much wider than a CD, and it's even shorter than than).
Also, it's the only one that's remotely portable (even a handle on it) and you can buy an LCD top and car adapter to make it a real portable game machine for car trips.
Re:This could hurt Nintendo (Score:3, Insightful)
of consoles and thats what gamers go for."
First off, the quality of Microsoft's graphics compared to the other two consoles is debatable at best. I've seen displays where all three consoles are playing next to each other and I see no clear difference between the three in terms of graphical performance.
Secondly, if gamers just wanted graphics then companies would be selling screen savers, not games. Gamers want games (hence the name "gamers"). Historicly, gamers have consistently gone for the console with the better games or the larger library than the one with superior hardware.
- The Atari 2600 instead of the Intellivision or the ColecoVision.
- They bought the NES instead of the Sega Master System.
- They bought the Game Boy instead of the Lynx, Turbo Express, Game Gear, Neo Geo Pocket Color, etc.
- They continued buying NESes after the Sega Genesis came out.
- They bought the Sega Genesis instead of the SNES.
- While the 16-bit SNES and Genesis were duking it out, nobody bought a Neo Geo, a Jaguar, a 3DO, or a CD-I.
- The 32-bit PlayStation outsold the 64-bit N64 (at least outside North America).
- The Dreamcast found itself hard-pressed to compete against the PlayStation and N64.
"frankly the GC has some pretty damn lame games so far except for Luigis Mansion but thats only of interest if you're 15 or under IMO."Then you've obviously never played any GC games (which is consistant with your "Graphics Uber Alles" statement). I have yet to see a game on any of GC's competitors, for example, that has the 4-player fun that Super Smash Bros. Melee has.
Nice try at trolling but you could have tried a lot harder.
Re:This could hurt Nintendo (Score:2)
The Dreamcast was head and shoulders above both the PS1 and the N64 graphically, but they bother handed Sega it's lungs back. Just because something has better graphics, doesn't mean a damn thing. If there were one answer to anything, life would be a whole lot simpler.
Please people, get your heads out of the sand. This is far more complicated than what machine can push pixels faster.
Re:No it can't. (Score:2)
Of course thus far those are the only 2 title I've seen for the Cube that made me drool... other than that my PS 2 still reigns supreme.
Whos pal we are this week.. (Score:2)
Well according to the calendar yes..
5/12-5/18 Sony(celebrate PS2 price cuts)
5/19-5/25 Apple(celebrate rackmount servers)
5/26-6/01 PanIP(celebrate American Capitalism)
6/02-6/08 Microsoft(has to happen once a century)
6/09-6/15 Napster(company will be reborn and the same as in past but umm better)
6/16-6/22 AT&T(they realize they lose to much money and promise free phone calls for all)
6/23-6/29 TBA -- Check slashdot poll for this weeks
thats what the current calendar shows.. so be pre-pared
Re:Graphics vs. Games (Score:4, Insightful)
Take, for example, Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 3, which is ubiquitous. I have played it on GC, PS2 and Xbox, and guess which one plays more smoothly. Xbox, period. It doesn't have the slowdown, it doesn't have the pop-up - both of which are a problem on PS2 and GC. Let's not even make a big deal out of the fact that the Xbox version comes with an extra playable character and an extra level.
Let's look at Spider-Man, which is also out on every damn platform save Dreamcast. It, too, has extra levels that are exclusive to the Xbox version. And guess what? It plays much better on the Xbox, due largely to the fact that the Xbox hardware blows PS2 and GameCube away. No slow-down, no pop-up... guess what consoles have a problem with that?
I like my GameCube too, but you being a Nintendo fanboy doesn't change the fact that the hardware is inferior to the Xbox.
I won't even begin to talk about Xbox (lockups, price, games, controller,...)
Yeah, smartguy. Because you know that you can't win that battle. I've had my Xbox since the week after they were first released. I have played it more than any other console I currently own, save Dreamcast. It has been on 24/7 since I got it. It has never locked up (or, for that matter, given me any problem whatsoever).
The price is in line with PS2 and considering the fact that it does much more than a GameCube or PS2, it's really not so bad. I don't need to buy memory cards for my Xbox, but I sure as shit had to dump out some cash for PS2 and GameCube cards so I could save some games. Total cost of ownership for the Xbox is lower than PS2 and is barely higher than GameCube. And like I said, you're getting more with Xbox.
The games that are coming out for Xbox are just fine. You can bitch and moan all you want, but the fact of the matter is that Xbox had the strongest console launch since consoles were first deployed. Its games were all pretty much top-notch, which is more than can be said for GameCube or PS2. Xbox currently has over 60 games. I own exactly 10 of them, and all of them are pretty great. This includes a number of games that are available for PS2, GameCube or both, but are much better on Xbox (see above). There may be no "killer app" games for Xbox... but there weren't for PS2 after its launch and there sure as shit aren't any for GameCube. Super Monkey Ball is pretty fun, Rogue Squadron is great and Super Smash Brothers Melee will definitely always have a place in my living room, but other than that, nothing great is out now. Saying that Nintendo's 2002 lineup will be fantastic is mostly hypocritical - look at all the good games that will be coming out for Xbox and PS2 as well.
The only part of your argument that has a shred of logic to it is a complaint about the Xbox controller. I personally like the Xbox Controller and the Xbox Controller-S (of which I own 2 of the former and 1 of the latter), but I have large hands. Buy the S if you don't, and if that doesn't suit your fancy, check out of some of the third party controllers. It's important to have something that you'll be comfortable with.
To sum it up: you're a Nintendo fanboy, deluded to forever see their greatness, and that's okay - but it doesn't negate the fact that the other consoles are pretty fucking good as well.
Re:Graphics vs. Games (Score:2)
Re:Graphics vs. Games (Score:2)
Dead or Alive 3 is obviously the fighting game to have on Xbox - are there even any others out?
PGR is pretty good, but it feels a lot like MSR re-hashed for Xbox.
Rallisport Challenge is awesome. It looks amazing and it plays great as well. It's seriously very fun.
Halo is the game to have, though I haven't really gotten far in it - playing it on the hardest level was kinda killing me, and then I got really hooked on...
Amped, which is one of the more addictive titles I've played for the Xbox. Career mode owns me. But I've always really loved snowboarding games.
SSX Tricky is great fun, but the controls can be somewhat awkward (hold A + Y + right trigger + left on the D-pad == cool trick but contorted hand). Amped is the more realistic snowboarding game; SSX Tricky is off the wall with big tricks. Either is a worthy addition to a game library.
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2x is very very good. This from a long time Hawk fan, though. It combines Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 1 with 2. It looks good on the Xbox (better than on Dreamcast), plays well... lots of fun. It's my least favorite in the Tony Hawk series though, and if you're going to get a Hawk game (you should - they're highly addictive and provide TONS of replay value), go with
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 3 - the addition of the revert is awesome, but that's not what makes this a better game. Everything is different here (except the controls, obviously), and it's a change for the better. Pretty easily my favorite game on Xbox and just about my favorite game ever (shared with GTA3 for PS2). So much to this game (unlocking Darth Maul was good fun)... it's very complete. If you buy one more game, make it this one. Rent it first if you're not a Hawk fan.
Spider-Man is definitely fun. It's got some control issues (mainly that you will spend more time controlling the camera then you ever thought), but other than that, it's cool. The graphics are great (obviously) and it's fun. The first level (warehouse) is infinitely frustrating, however. Don't feel discouraged. Definitely worthy of a rental.
Silent Hill 2 for Xbox improves over the PS2 version (you can now play as Maria as well), and the graphics are better, but only real fans of the series should buy it if they already have it for PS2. This is a Resident Evil-type game - if you like those, it's good. If you don't, it's dumb. It's hardly as wide-appeal as Tony Hawk is.
For reference, I always read reviews of games at http://xbox.ign.com before I buy - I find their reviews to be pretty much spot-on. Your mileage may vary, of course.
Though I never rent video games (I always know that I'm going to want the game and I trust IGN enough to go on their reviews), I would recommend renting before you buy anyway. I simply hate renting games - I like to have them whenever I want to play them, and I hate rushing through a game.
Anyway, if you're going to buy one more game for Xbox, make it THPS3 - even the woman likes playing this game. Everything about it screams "perfection". I don't know how they're going to make Tony Hawk 4 better. It's seriously the most fun I've had on Xbox - you'll want to 100% the game with all the characters (of which there are some two dozen).
Anyway, that's a quick run down of what I've got and what I think of 'em.
Re:Graphics vs. Games (Score:2, Insightful)
Suppose, for a moment, that you wanted to buy a game console, use it for a DVD player, do modest game playing.
Now, the price of the PS2 was, until today, $300, same as Xbox. Assume that new games are the same price - $50.
Extra controllers are (were) $35 for each system. So this is relatively negligible.
You need to buy a memory card for a PS2, which is (was) $35 extra.
The DVD remote for Xbox is $30. It's $20 for the PS2.
So right there, you're out an extra $25 if you go the PS2 route.
Suppose you want to play some 4 player games. On Xbox, this is no problem - buy the extra controllers.
On PS2, you need to buy the multitap connector - hey, that's another $35 there. So now you're down $60.
Suppose you want to play some games online. Xbox has broadband built in - so no extra cost there. PS2 will need an adaptor which isn't available yet - and is likely to retail between $35 and $50. We'll assume $35 to give the benefit of the doubt to Sony. So now you've spent $95 more on a PS2 and its accessories than you have the Xbox. I won't get into the benefits of having a hard drive, but if you want to buy one for PS2 (for game upgrades, like I just did for DOA3 on Xbox), you're going to spend even more cash.
If you forego the DVD playing aspect and the 4 player, you still lose on the PS2 because you NEED to buy a memory card to make effective use of the console. This hasn't kept me from buying a PS2 (obviously), and I don't at all regret that I've spent a ton of money on my consoles, but saying that the Xbox's price is outrageous is absurd, simply because when you look at it from all angles, it's cheaper than PS2 (or was, before Sony's price cuts, which Microsoft will have to answer).
It may seem silly, but for the money-conscious gamer, it's important to examine these aspects. Xbox isn't really that expensive when everything is considered.
Re:Graphics vs. Games (Score:2)
Re:bigger losses (Score:2)
Re:bigger losses (Score:2)
Oh, come on, that's a standard line. Sony and Nintendo don't do this. They sell consoles (wholesale) for roughly what it costs for them to make them. They're not selling them at a huge loss.
Re:XBox 1.0 officially failure? (Score:2)
Re:NT 1? I think you mean 3.5! (Score:2)
You're both wrong, the initial release of Windows NT was Windows NT 3.1, and it was called 3.1 because MS didn't want their newest, latest and greatest technology to look like it was lower tech than Windows 3.1 which was currently shipping. If you accept the alternative argument, you might be able to get to version 3.1 if you included OS/2 1.0 and 2.0 in the history of NT since NT was largely derived from the work that MS had done on OS/2.
Price Match (Score:3, Informative)
;-)
Maybe a level playing field... (Score:2)
Re:The rumors of my demise... (Score:2)