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Games Entertainment

E3 Controller Previews 268

Posted by timothy from the wish-they'd-settle-on-kinesis-boards dept.
spides writes: "If you thought the original X-Box controller was huge, you're in for a rude awakening. At E3 this past week, Microsoft and Capcom unveiled their 40 button control station for the X-Box's 'realistic' mech simulator Steel Battalion. On the same day, Nintendo and Sega unveiled the new keyboard peripheral for use with the Gamecube version of Phantasy Star Online, which can only be described as the world's largest conventional controller with a keyboard stuck between the directional pad and the usual buttons."
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E3 Controller Previews More

E3 Controller Previews

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  • one size fits all (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Karma Star ( 549944 )
    except in the case of xbox controllers. i guess those developers must be giants over at redmond..

  • Gear Shift? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by kabir ( 35200 ) on Tuesday May 28, 2002 @04:08PM (#3597326)
    Um... what's with the gear shift on the far left?!? At least it looks like an automatic... though I guess it could be handy to be able to pop the clutch on my battle mech ;)
  • At first I was ready to write this off as "another stupid gamer story." But then I took the time to peruse the links, and I've reconsidered.

    I started thinking about "mech"s. Sure, the stuff of science fiction. But could science fiction one day be science fact? And could that day be right around the corner?

    We have historically seen the game industry pave the trail for the military. Doom. Quake. Combat. The list goes on.

    I think that the next thing we can expect is military vehicles with this kind of high-tech controller. Imagine a tank or helicopter with 40 buttons.

    The result would be literally astounding.

    I don't know what the future holds, but names like Sony and Linux are going to be very important to security and stability in this new world we are forging. It's an exciting time to be alive.
    • "We have historically seen the game industry pave the trail for the military. Doom. Quake. Combat. The list goes on."

      Does it? I thought the idea of using rockets and machine guns and assault rifles came during the Second World War, silly me, it came from id software.

      "I think that the next thing we can expect is military vehicles with this kind of high-tech controller. Imagine a tank or helicopter with 40 buttons."

      From the fighters, cargo planes and helicopters I've seen, there are more than 40 buttons in the cockpit.

      "but names like Sony and Linux are going to be very important to security and stability in this new world we are forging."

      Names like Colt, Armalite, Boeing, BAe, Airbus, General Dynamics Land Systems and FLIR are going to be much more important.
  • why not just plop down a keyboard and call it a controller? 40 buttons? Good luck trying to play the game with that. In an RP i can see, but even still in a battle, how are you going to access things quickly? You need speed in games and having a 40-button controller is going to inhibit that, although its been done on the computer for years, not a lot of us, use a keyboard, even still, for GTA3, using a keyboard to turn around the guy for the FPS, is a pain..
    • I'm pretty sure Capcom realizes that this isn't going to sell a million copies, it's not like they're trying to compete with Mario here. This controller is meant for one game and one game only, and it's supposed to simulate a mech. I'd say that this custom controller is probably better than immersing you in that experience than a keyboard and mouse would be. Give them some credit for having the balls to put money into the development of something completely different (that probably won't sell) while most other devs are just trying to copy the hot title of the month.

  • Not only the XBox controller... (Score:3, Funny)

    by Soul-Burn666 ( 574119 ) on Tuesday May 28, 2002 @04:11PM (#3597360) Journal
    Many have probably noticed that every MS peripheral is BIG!

    For example, the MS Intellimouse Explorer which is double the size of a standard mouse... nice at start, but a small mouse just fits better...

    The Natural Keyboard which is double the size of keyboards (tho it's pretty good!)

    And ofcourse, every version of Windows just doubles it's size... WinXP is around how much for minimal install? 1GB?
    • The Intellimouse Explorer is a nice comfortable size. It is by far and away the most ergonomic mouse I have ever used. I hate that most mice are too small. And the 2nd gen Explorer is not as nice as the first one. Granted, I have big hands. I tried the XBox controller - the size wasn't a problem, but the button positions started causing me pain after only 5 minutes. The N64 controller is just as big, but much more ergonomic
    • For example, the MS Intellimouse Explorer which is double the size of a standard mouse...

      I presume you are talking about a real, live animal mouse, because my Intellimouse Explorer is only slightly larger than a regular computer mouse.

      nice at start, but a small mouse just fits better...

      Richard Gere once said the same thing, but seriously folks, this reminds me of that Simpsons episode where Maude Flanders is trying to reach inside the windmill at the putt-putt course.

      "Todd, you have small, girlish hands, see if you can reach it!"

      In other words... maybe smaller mice fit you better because you have small, girlish hands?
    • That's why I buy so much MS hardware. It fits perfectly with my hand. My hand is not big, just your average hand and there mouses and joysticks fits great.

      One reason on why I bought an XBox is because of the controllers. They're nice.
  • I don't find the standard X-box controller too big but I have noticed that the 3rd party ones of the same style are a little smaller and have the buttons spaced a bit better.. I always thought the ps controllers where a little small and the N64 has my vote for the strangest yet resonably commfortable shape.. Then again I have big hands.. Kids, I am sure have a little trouble with them.
  • Steel Batallions is not for everyone - f'rinstance.. how much is it gonna COST? No one knows, and ain't no one talking. As far as I've heard the game will only be sold with the massive controller offering no way for people with the standard controller to play it. It better cost below $100 for it to be even a moderate success.

    I still praise Capcom for bringing a niche game to the US. Reminds me of the Sega Saturn Virtual On! game with the TwinSticks, or the DDR dance pads. Take a chance, developers.

    • Forget even buying it. No big-box store (Circuit City, Best Buy, etc...) will waste the shelf-space to stock both the game and that controller.

      At best you'll be able to mail-order it. Whatever marketing-rep thought that mondo-controller would be a good idea is soon to be working on their r
  • Sorry guys, this is about the coolest things i've seen to come out for any console in a while. I LOVE realistic mech sims, especially the capsules at dave & busters. Tossed salad those things are COOL. Imagine a big 'ol futuristic chamber you step in, with multiple monitors displaying the different systems in the mech universe (heat, weapons, damage, nav, ect) Managing all these different systems is what makes a mech game fun.

    Back to the story though, yeah I really like this thing. It will probably be easy to cut the cable and adapt it to pc use (since xbox is usb) plus the price drop we had last week, I want one now.
  • Just what I needed, a controller that requires 6 additional hands to operate. Hopefully it won't be grossly oversized and also require replacement of my current hands (like the current X-box controller).

    • Re:Wonderful (Score:2, Insightful)

      by ImaLamer ( 260199 )
      Just what I needed, a controller that requires 6 additional hands to operate.

      Even though I'm pretty much with you on this one; I think it's going to be cool to see gaming controllers that don't require 6 extra fingers and 36 extra key combinations to play.

      I played hours of Soldier Of Fortune on the Dreamcast with the standard controller... god I wish I had a keyboard. I died every five minutes the first few times because the button config was horrible.

      I mean... if you've played any FPS after Team Fortress Quake (#1) on up you know how many 'bindings' you must make and how the games are more like Mavis Beacon Teaches Typing.
  • The Steel Battalion controller, expected to cost $299 reminds me of the 'DualStick' controller for Virtual On using the Sega Saturn platform.

  • Antigames (Score:3, Funny)

    by Rupert ( 28001 ) on Tuesday May 28, 2002 @04:16PM (#3597401) Homepage Journal
    Apparently someone let antigames come into contact with some games, and the resulting explosion slashdotted their server.

  • Fingers (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    "Hmm.... Forty buttons."
    - "Marthter ?"
    "Yes Igor ?"
    - "Shall I fetch the box of thingers, marthter ?"

  • thats nice but.. (Score:4, Funny)

    by psycht ( 233176 ) on Tuesday May 28, 2002 @04:17PM (#3597415) Homepage Journal
    my Dell gamebox has a 108 key game pad.

  • new game cube controller (Score:5, Funny)

    by jeffehobbs ( 419930 ) on Tuesday May 28, 2002 @04:17PM (#3597418) Homepage
    courtesy of Something Awful:

    http://www.somethingawful.com/news/8-28-2000/ninte ndo/controller.jpg [somethingawful.com]

    ~jeff

  • Cost issues? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Geeyzus ( 99967 ) <mark_madej@@@yahoo...com> on Tuesday May 28, 2002 @04:20PM (#3597434)
    Is it just me, or does anyone else want to avoid paying $30+ for a controller you can only use for one game, on top of the $50+ price tag for the game itself?

    I could see it if they had a "generic" keyboard controller you could use for any games with a keyboard... but having to purchase a new game (no doubt bundled with the new controller) over and over will become tedious, if it is the route consoles are taking.

    I would like to see an alternative to these... button/direction combos, or on-screen keyboards, however tedious they may be, simply so there is a lower-cost option.

    Then again these are the types of things you can always pick up at a super cheap price from used games stores like FunCoLand a year or so later, so maybe it's not all bad...

    Mark
    • Phantasy Star Online for the Dreamcast had an in-game keyboard that you could use with your controller. You could also use pre-made phrases (automatically translated) or customizable thought-balloon pictures. So there is a lower cost option at least keyboard-wise. (dunno if the mech game will work with a regular controller.) But a lot of the fun of games like this is the human interaction, and it's hard to communicate via a clunky letter-at-a-time onscreen keyboard while trying to kill monsters.
      • I'm *really* looking forward to Steel Battalion and the answer is no it will not work with a regular controller. This is *very* in depth sim. Starting the Mech up takes 5 switches/knobs on the controller. :) Like I said it is a hardcore sim.

    • Sometimes the Controller IS the game! (Score:4, Insightful)

      by MikeyNg ( 88437 ) <mikeyng&gmail,com> on Tuesday May 28, 2002 @04:44PM (#3597603) Homepage

      Is it just me, or does anyone else want to avoid paying $30+ for a controller you can only use for one game, on top of the $50+ price tag for the game itself?


      There have been several games in the past where the price of the controller is more than the game itself, but the controller literally makes the game. I can think of two examples right now: Dance Dance Revolution (or any bemani game) and Samba de Amigo. Both of these games are fun in and of themselves with the standard controller, but throw in the peripherals, and stand back!


      I, for one, spent $50 on Samba then $100 on two sets of maracas. (You heard me correctly. Maracas.) It's an instant party, and a unique game experience you really can't duplicate any other way. Sometimes it's worth it to spend.


    • Maybe this is some kind of strategy on the part of the game makers to "lock in" people to their games or gaming genres. If you buy a SuperWidget controller to play StarGenre, aren't you more inclined to buy StarGenre II vs. PlanetChase I, which also has a custom controller?

      I also wonder if its not a way to get more profit out of a given game. I know that you pay money to develop software for gaming platforms, but does hardware have the same royalty setup? Can I sell a PS2 controller without kicking back to Sony the way I would if I wanted to develop games for it? I can't believe the lawyers wouldn't have been on top of this one, but hey, even they miss.

    • Re:Cost issues? (Score:2, Insightful)

      by MisterBlister ( 539957 )
      You cheap bastard.
    • does anyone else want to avoid paying $30+ for a controller you can only use for one game

      This thing has: two yokes (analog sticks), a throttle and a dial (analog triggers) and lots of switches (regular buttons). In short, it's a superset of the existing Xbox controllers.

      Why would you assume it can be used ONLY for Steel Batallions? Of course it's going to support other games.

      • Why would you assume it can be used ONLY for Steel Batallions? Of course it's going to support other games.

        While this may be techically true, would you actually like to use this monster [armchairempire.com] for anything other than what it is intended for?

        Even using it as a second/third/fourth controller, it will be a totally different feel to play other games with this controller, if you are used to using the "normal" controller. Even leaving out the "feel" aspect (as in, this controller looks/feels like it is supposed to drive a huge mech warrior, not throw passes or ride a snowboard), this would be a big handicap in 1v1(v1,v1,etc) games over a friend's house, which I imagine is what these extra controllers are normally used for.

        Not to mention the size factor... I bet the "oh cool, I get to use it as an extra controller" is outweighed by "Oh great, where am I going to keep this gigantic piece of crap"...

        Mark

        • Re:Cost issues? (Score:3, Interesting)

          by CaseyB ( 1105 )
          it will be a totally different feel to play other games with this controller, if you are used to using the "normal" controller.

          looks/feels like it is supposed to drive a huge mech warrior, not throw passes or ride a snowboard

          That's the whole point, brainiac. This interface is *better* for these games. It'd be good for any sort of sim game, flying game, or even driving game.You think they're marketing it as a generic replacement controller?

          News flash! Light guns suck for fighting games! Steering wheel controllers suck for FPS games!

    • Re:Cost issues? (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Kizzle ( 555439 )
      I don't see why the xbox and game cube can't just work with regular old usb mice and keyboards. Xbox does use usb for its controllers. Playstation2 has a couple usb ports on it which enable some games to use the keyboard.
    • 30 dollars? if that thing is under 150, I'd be amazed.

      That said, I bought the wingman warrior when it came out, plugged it into my mech game, It pretty much improved my game to the point I would stomp people who had consistantly beat me. It worked great with Doom, too. It had a metal base, I beat the hell out of it for a year, its performance stayed the same.
      So the right joy stick can make a game go from good to great.

  • Best Controller Ever (Score:1, Insightful)

    by dlur ( 518696 )

    I wonder how long it will be before the console game world realizes that a good solid keyboard and a small, comfortable mouse are the best controllers available.

    Ask anyone who's really good at Q3 or any other FPS what they'd rather use, a kb/mouse combo or a gamepad, and I'm pretty sure the answer is kb/mouse.

    I think it's only a matter of time before we see game consoles come standard with keyboards and perhaps mice as well. A nice optical mouse preferrably to avoid the nasty mouse pad problem in the living room.

    But then if game consoles came with keyboards and mice, wouldn't they just be PCs with S-Video or Composite video outputs? Well, for all intenseive purposes they are for the most part. Look at Linux for Sony PS/2 and Sega Genesis and wonder how long it will be before someone cracks the X-box and ports Linux to it also.

    Me personally, I guess I'll just keep my trusty PC with a GeForce3 w/ s-video output hooked up to my TV so that I can play PC games like NFS5 and Quake3 on the big screen, and remember the old days when games were good because of the game play, not the graphics with my MAME and NES emulators.

    • Re:Best Controller Ever (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Ondo ( 187980 )
      I wonder how long it will be before the console game world realizes that a good solid keyboard and a small, comfortable mouse are the best controllers available.

      Right after everyone who play console games starts sitting in front of a table.
    • I couldn't IMAGINE playing Tekki/Steel Battalion on a keyboard/mouse combo. It would be an utter nightmare trying to coordinate all the degrees of motion the game offers on that kind of rig. You control your aim independently of your motion which is independent of your vision. Can you imagine doing that on a KB/mouse?
    • There's a thing to be said about blanket statements like that...

      FPS games work best with a keyboard mouse, but how about a fighting game? And then there's other options, like a trackball for marble madness or the many other alternatives mentioned in the comments.

      It depends on the game, and it just happens that PC games are developed with the KB and mouse in mind and console games are developed with controllers in mind. When Morrowind comes out for XBOX, it will be interesting to see how much it changes simply to accomodate the controller.
      • My experience with morrowind on the PC (which I'm totally in love with, BTW) has been that it's limited by planning for the console controller in the first place. It doesn't take much imagination to think of how the controls could have been better if they were designed for the PC instead of the Xbox. You could have done so much more. As it is there are only four important buttons. (Attack, interact, run, and menu). The other controlls are movement (which seems like it'll be fine with two analog sticks) and scroll through weapons (Can you say shoulder buttons?). Things that you could either interact with, or pick up have a cumbersome menu interface that could have been overcome easily on the PC. It's probably only there because of the Xbox target.

        The only difference between the Xbox version and the PC version (besides the fact that you can't play the Xbox version in 1600x1200 at 90Hz) will likely be that the Xbox version will lack hotkeys.

        I hope they hire a proofreader for their game text before they ship the Xbox version, because they won't be able to patch that one :)


    • If you say FPS then yes, kb/mouse is prolly the best combination to control your game. But on console platforms, the true PC-style fps is only a small segment of the market, because generally the audience of consoles is younger and more attracted to fantasy instead of hardcore realism. I'm not saying there are no FPS games on console platforms, I'm just saying there are not a lot of them out there. I think for the overall kind of arcade console gameplay, a decent playstation2 controller is as good as they get.

    • I wonder how long it will be before the console game world realizes that a good solid keyboard and a small, comfortable mouse are the best controllers available.

      I would agree with this, except that for most action games that aren't FPS's, then a Keyboard and mouse sucks.

      Here's a good example. Go get yourself a copy of any of the Street fighter games for the console of your choice. Take a few minutes to get comfortable with the controller, especially if you have a joystick/thumbstick directional controller.

      Now go find Mame rom for that game and play it with your keyboard.

      It *can* be done. I frequently boot up Capcom vs. Marvel when I'm waiting on a download to let out with some Wolverine-style agression. It would be so much more pleasant if I had a little arcade-style joystick that sat on the left side of my keyboard.

      I should just go buy one. *sigh*

      • It *can* be done. I frequently boot up Capcom vs. Marvel when I'm waiting on a download to let out with some Wolverine-style agression. It would be so much more pleasant if I had a little arcade-style joystick that sat on the left side of my keyboard.

        Buy the Namco Arcade Stick [gameon.dk] for the Playstation and a PSX->PC USB convertor [goldenshop.com.hk]. This combination works in Linux and it's a solid joystick with good tactile response.

  • ok (Score:3, Funny)

    by nomadic ( 141991 ) <`nomadicworld' `at' `gmail.com'> on Tuesday May 28, 2002 @04:23PM (#3597460) Homepage
    Obligatory Penny Arcade links:

    Obligatory link number one. [penny-arcade.com]
    Number two. [penny-arcade.com]
  • Personally, even the GameCube control I find overly complex.

    The xBox control may be cool colors, but it totally does not excite me, just like the box.

    Since The Sims is coming out for PS2 - guess I'll have to pick up a PS2 in addition to my GameCube soon - but first have to master Pikmin and Star Wars Rogue Leader ...

    -
  • ALternative INFO b/c it's /.:
    Here, I read about Steel Batallion (the mech game for XBox) a few days ago at gamespy.com. I can't find the article now but here are some screen shots: Screen Shots [gamespy.com]

    From what I can remember, the game has "graphics so good you won't find them amazing because the game looks so real." (or something.)

    OKAY HERE I FOUND IT: The article is here: ARTIVIEW ARTICLE!! [gamespy.com] The actual comment was ""the graphics really don't seem that impressive, because they look so real."

    "Steel Battalion will ship with 20 missions on 12 different levels, and although the final price has yet to be determined, you can probably expect to pay about $150 to $300 for this awesome-looking game/controller combo.

    Oh, and it WON'T be playable online using XBox-Live :/
    • i'll say this up front, im looking forward to the new games coming out for the x-box, because most of what's out so far was quickly produced and not designed to make the most out of what the console can do.

      i will also gladly pay 49 a year for the online service and headset, i think the VoIP factor of their service will make interaction over the service a step above the other 2's plans.

      and i have to say that the screenshots and review of this game look and sound like it will be absolutely incredible... but there is no way in hell im paying 150-300 for 1 game... i'll just wait till they realize they aren't selling at that price, and pick it up for $99.99 with the controller a few months after the release (hopefully) ;)
  • My dodecatentacle controller allows me to operate in 7 distinct universes simultaneously!!! All kneel to my superiority !!!.

    Now I need a midget to lug this shit around for me.
  • This controller [ezboard.com] is better.

    I don't know about you, but i want to be able to *compose* on my x-box.

  • Since everybody just wants to look at the pictures (Score:5, Informative)

    by torinth ( 216077 ) on Tuesday May 28, 2002 @04:38PM (#3597561) Homepage
    Found this elsewhere:

    The 40-button behemoth [armchairempire.com]

    -Andrew

  • What's next, Russia joins the NATO alliance?

    Oh, wait...

    Man is the future weird

  • Nintendo: Console Innovators Gallore! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Rahga ( 13479 ) on Tuesday May 28, 2002 @04:44PM (#3597602) Journal
    It's amazing how Nintendo put enough thought into the development of the GameCube to make it keyboard ready.

    All they need now is the ability to plug a tape drive into the keyboard [gamersgraveyard.com], and they'll catch back up to where they were back in the early 1980's with the Famicom.

    Who know, maybe even NS-HUBASIC (Nintendo, Sharp, Hudson) will be updated for the GameCube one of these days.... Okay, so probably not. The point stands, Nintendo tried the console-computer-entertainment-center thing way before PS2 or X-Box. This time around, don't count on seeing Gamecube try to pretend it's anything besides a game console.
  • Spreadin' the load around:

    Armchair Empire preview [armchairempire.com]

    The Controller In Question [armchairempire.com]

    It looks to me like this game, an XBox, and the controller would be the best $300 mech simulator ever. That, plus Rallycross, might just push me into getting one.

  • I grew up in a Bally's arcade. I still know every Street Fighter II move, every Mortal Kombat move and finishing move and most morphs, animalities, friendships and so forth....

    But with that said on to my question. I remember this game we got from Namco (which I believe owned or partially owned the arcade). It was two players, sit down, speakers behind the head death match style.

    Polygon-al (you could probably count them on both hands) and you drove around these little Star Fox looking ships.

    For the life of me I can't remember what it was called and I'll donate all my Karma to anyone who can tell me.

    It was so nice because of the realism (in control of course because you couldn't live through some of these crashes and I've never seen planes like this).

    Even though I didn't use a question mark yet I guess I'm wondering what the XP it was called.

  • it's the accessories, stupid! (Score:3, Informative)

    by SethJohnson ( 112166 ) on Tuesday May 28, 2002 @04:58PM (#3597694) Homepage Journal


    The new generation of consoles (PS2, gamecube, and xBOx) are built around a revenue model where the accessories are responsible for nearly as much of the profit as the games' licenses. Note extra cost for the DVD remote controls for both Ps2 and xBOx. Note that third parties cannot create devices for these consoles without the blessing and contractual agreements of the console vendors.


    Expect to see more peripherals such as this.
    • Really. I thought the DVD playback kit was expensive because of the DVDCCA licence and the Dolby Lab tech in the receiver dongle.

      And I really thought that the licencing thing was to stop things like memory cards which used compression and had timing quirks which caused saves to fail, or such wonderful things as games saved on bank one overwriting saves on bank two. It's all about profit, isn't it?

      Sometimes it's about quality, and not charging for things people don't buy. But that's not negative, is it?

      The PS2 doesn't "cost extra" for a DVD remote, because you can use the controller: you already paid for all the DVD stuff with the console -- wether you need it or not. All the remotes are third party and require a bootdisc.
  • Sweet, is that a jog dial I see in the middle? Finally, we can play pong and arkanoid properly once they come out!
  • I wonder if they will come out with an equivalent to Stack Up that uses these new controllers so that it at least is tied with R.O.B. in usefulness!

    mark
  • Regarding "Steel Battalion"... people need to see what the controller is before they comment on it. It's not a 40-button gamepad, for goodeness' sake. It's more of a flighstick-from hell. Two joysticks, foot petals, different toggles, switches... even a little hatch-protected eject button. Follow the links above before you shoot off your mouth. ^_^

    I played really-quick (about five minutes), so I can't say much about the actual game, other then... well, its very sim-ey, and horribly complex.... which I'm all for. It seems to be the polar opposite of the XBox Battletech game, so everyone might be satisfied come this fall (and we haven't even mentioned the Robotech game, heh). I thought it was really neat, but, honestly, it may very well end up being a poor game with a neat concept. It's fun to play pretend with that set-up, however. ^_-

    (Personally, I adore the idea; this is something I've always wanted, ever since I read about those Battletech pods at the CES, years & years ago.)

    • Re:Played at E3 - me too (more details) (Score:4, Informative)

      by matt_maggard ( 320567 ) on Tuesday May 28, 2002 @05:46PM (#3598000)
      I also got to play with this at E3 and agree with the above poster. I thought I would explain the workings of the controller a little for those that care.

      The left stick is for turning. It is left right only (no up/down). The right stick is for aiming your gun. It moves in all 4 directions. The right stick has 2 thumb buttons and a trigger. The thumb buttons are lock-on and missles, the trigger is machinegun. On the far left of the controller there is a shifter for forward gears and reverse. There are three pedals on the floor - gas, brake and the third was not used on the demoed build of the game.

      Play impressions: When you start, you actually have to start up your mech. you have to flick several switches and then hit a series of startup buttons. Once you start moving around, there is a nice sense of controlling something large and lumbering. This is nothing like virtual-on from sega. Everything in the environment is destructible. Overall the game was very very deep ad seemed to have a lot of potential. You can even get going too fast and when you turn your mech falls over - oops. I wanted to stay and play for a while but my demo ended and I was forced to share.

      I watched the capcom rep play and that was something amazing. It showed that you can master it and use the massive controller in a functional way. The HUD is very intrusive. but not in a bad way. It uses about 1/3 of the screen to show status of weapon system, maps, main display etc. It actually gives you the sense that you are viewing the forward display from with in the mech. The capcom guy was constantly shifting weapons and such - knowing intuitively what to hit on the controller. There is even a "wash window" button for when your display screen has been crudded up from battle. Overall very impressive. If the expense is not too great, I will pick up this one for my xbox.

      -matt

  • The X-Box controler IS NOT HUGE (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Com2Kid ( 142006 ) <com2kidSPAMLESS@gmail.com> on Tuesday May 28, 2002 @05:14PM (#3597771) Homepage Journal
    Damnit, it is right between just right and a tad wee bit to small.

    Since when the heck did midgets become the number one player of console games? Yeesh.

    Now the one fault that I _DO_ have with the X-Box controller (and all of the other next gen console system controllers for that matter) is how few buttons the player can access at once.

    I remember on the SNES controller that you could push any of 4 out of 6 buttons, not half bad. On the N64 controller it was (uh, 1,2,3,4,5,6) out of 8 buttons at once. Kick ass.

    On the X-Box it is like 3 or 4 out of how ever many. Yah I know the main analog joystick also presses down, but it is SOO awful that you likely change the joysticks heading at the same time. NOT a good thing, sorry, doesn't count. Not to mention how fricking dinky some of those buttons are, yeesh. Talk about all pad and no buttons!

    The PS2 has the same problem that the PS1 did, dinky ass controller, makes me feel like I am using a Pocket Gameboy to control my Console with. Ick. Cramped as hell.

    The original N64 controller SEEMED like it was a pain in the ass, and indeed I got an alternate controller and used it for quite some time, but after awhile I was forced to go back to the original pack-in controller and I then realized how kick-ass it was. Yah! :)

    The GameCube has a similar problem to the X-Box, not nearly enough buttons can be pushed at once. But then again Lord Miyamoto [nintendoland.com] says that he plans on designing games that require less buttons to play, so I am not going to complain too much about that one. If the entire console is designed for fewer buttons then OK, but the other consoles out there seem dedicated to using all of the buttons on the control pad but just bunching them up in remote clusters around a pad and making the whole entire thing horribly unergonomic. Yuck.

    On the plus side, 40 key gamepads will be quite nice. When I was well into playing Half-Life (since given it up, CS is so painfully slow compared to the frantic strategic action of HLDM) I had at least 20 keys bound on my keyboard and a nine button mouse. . . .

    ;D

    (I still have my two original NES advantage joysticks, yes, two of them. Now THOSE where some well built controllers! :) )
    • Since when the heck did midgets become the number one player of console games?

      Since around 1984, when the North American market crashed and Nintendo released the NES in Japan. :)

    • I have to differ with you on the Playstation controller. I'm a pretty big guy with large (some say, "ham-sized") hands, and the Playstation controller is simply the best controller ever, IMHO. The sheer ergonomics of the controller were perfect. All buttons were within easy reach, and the controller was small enough to fit perfectly in the grip. I'm not as big a fan of the original Dual-Shock Analog Playstation controller, as I thought the analog sticks threw the ergonomics off, but I could deal with it for analog control and the vibration functionality. However, the PS2 controller is totally sweet. 255 levels of sensitivity in each button makes for delightful analog button-pusing control, and the analog sticks were tightened up to a usable point. I realize that YMMV, but for my money, the PS2 controller is the only way to fly.

      Do not trust the X-Box controller. It is malfunctioning. The PS2 controller will protect you from the terrible secret of space. Do you have stairs in your house?
  • In related news, Logitech announced today its new KeyMouse XP.

    From the press release:
    The KeyMouse XP is the worlds first mouse to integrate a 120 key keyboard inside a mouse. This gives the user the advantage of not having to switch between keyboard and mouse - a repetitive movement which costs the user time and productivity.

    The keyboard is located between the left and right mouse buttons.

    When asked how difficult this new mouse would be to handle Logitech would only say that the user would need a really big-ass mousepad.

  • Atari Had the Right Idea (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Myriad ( 89793 ) <myriad@the[ ]d.com ['bso' in gap]> on Tuesday May 28, 2002 @05:28PM (#3597863) Homepage
    Years back the Atari 2600 (and related) system had a button pad for accessing different functions of games.

    The cool thing about Atari's pad was that it was designed to take different overlay templates for the buttons. Thus, once you had the pad the games only needed to bundle an appropriate template you could overlay on the pad.

    This has the obvious advantage of making on controller re-useable, but it also meant buttons were correctly labled for the game - rather than having buttons AA through ZZ Alpha Plural Beta Z.

    • I think you are talking about the Intellivision. The 2600 had a one button joystick and a one button paddle controller. don't remmeber any other controllers for it.
    • Years back the Atari 2600 (and related) system had a button pad for accessing different functions of games.

      The keypad on my Atari 5200 [atariage.com] was all I ever needed to convince all of my grade-school buddies that my 5200 was infinitely better than any game system they could ever show me.

      At least until the Nintendo hit US shores. Ah well.

      The funny thing is, despite the fact that my parents ended up having to buy six or eight of those controllers because the trigger buttons on the side kept breaking, the "1" and "Start" buttons had a terrible habit of almost never working, and the joystick wasn't self-centering (and therefore suffered from a lot of abuse at my six-to-eight-year-old hands), I thought it rocked.

      And I can still remember which numbers corresponded to which plays in Football. The screen pass was nearly unstoppable :-)

    • Today it would make a lot more sense to have the buttons have LED-backlit LCD (or possibly EL, but LEDs are cheaper, and cheaper and easier to drive) caps, so they could have various glyphs encoded on them. You could mimic this yourself with relatively inexpensive hardware, putting text labels near the buttons.

      Also these days when you need a lot of buttons you don't really need them to be labeled, but console games are supposed to be easy. On the PC, they just let you assign any button to any function these days, in pretty much all games. At least, all games that count. It's easy, because they're based on directx, hence directinput. So my joystick may have four hats and four buttons, not to mention the second stage on the trigger, but I can set them to whatever I like, so I can just make them things which are logical to me.

      The intellivision and colecovision's controllers had a keypad built into them, and multiple buttons besides. But they all shared a common problem; overlays are fragile little slips of plastic which inevitably become damaged. I have a few intellivision games with one good overlay, and one with two, but that one was never opened...

  • Instead of 40+ button controllers. Why not have a controller that'll spit blood on your hands and/or on your face everytime you kill those ugly zombies? :)
  • Does anybody remember the one-handed controller for the PS a couple years back? I believe it was the ASCII Grip [game-revolution.com]. Sure it was unruly, and not dual-shock, but for a good RPG, it was ideal. You could sit back and eat some popcorn/chips/bacon and not get your controller all greasy/salty/nasty, etc. Although I never had one (and judging by the way it went out of production, neither did anyone else), I seriously considered getting one, and now every time I'm playing a console RPG, kick myself for not buying the only one I ever saw for sale.
    • You could sit back and eat some popcorn/chips/bacon and not get your controller all greasy/salty/nasty, etc.

      Yeah, yeah, sure. Eating bacon with that other hand, eh?
      Well, I'm certain that you did have some form of meat in your hand while playing Boob Raider on the PS.

  • But what they really need is multiple monitor/TV support, so you can have the main view and a couple of status views ... now THAT would kick ass ... along with this keyjoythrottlestickdevice ...

  • I know it's probably coincidence, but I worked on a mecha game called Steel Legions [gamesinvestor.co.uk] back in 1997-1998

    It died a death (and I moved on), but here's a list of the realism features it had when I left it:

    • An enclosed and instrument heavy cockpit view, much like Steel Battalion.
    • Passive and active radar with echoes from ground clutter, ECM ghosts, and counter-battery plotting.
    • Smoke that blocked line of sight, and defensive smoke cannisters.
    • IR homing missiles and flares that took into account heat factors like nearby burning objects (or your mecha being on fire).
    • Fire that spread from object to object according to wind direction (and fire extinguishers - we actually had a support mecha with a water cannon)
    • Damage based on a chance of each and any round penetrating rather than the ablative model favoured by most games.
    • Projectiles with realistic trajectories effected by gravity and wind (although the mecha handled the adjustments, so you just pointed the cursor), that ricocheted off armour or hardened buildings (yes, you could destroy yourself by opening fire at close range, if you were very unlucky)
    • Long range bombardment and indirect fire support, including firing laser homing missiles from defilade for a friendly unit to guide to target with a laser designator.
    • An AI that would follow mecha footprints and would call down recce by fire on where it thought you were hiding.

    Sounds impressive huh? Thinking back, it was damn impressive. So why did it never get published? The usual reasons: we were pushing too many polygons with too shoddy an engine; it was a great simulation, but not a great game; we ran out of money.

    The second point is the most interesting one. We quickly discovered that the most effective (but aggravating) enemy was a piddly little infantry soldier hiding in a bush with a laser designator and a radio, while the big shiney enemy mecha sat unseen behind a hill crest, firing missiles or mortars from defilade.

    Likewise, any realistic model of accuracy and damage (based on contemporary tank systems) means one shot = one hit = one kill, for the biggest weapon systems. If you're in the mecha equivelant of a T-72 up against an M1A2, your only possible option is to never be in a position where it can see you. That's a great illustration of the futility of fighting a stand up war against a technologically superior enemy (as the Iraqi tank battalions learned in the Gulf), but it makes for a hell of a frustrating game.

    I'll be very interested to see what Steel Battalions is like, but I rather suspect that it's complex or fully featured as opposed to actually realistic.

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