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Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 219

Posted by CmdrTaco from the games-to-lust-after dept.
LukeG writes "Despite the many impressive efforts in recent years of Lucas Arts Entertainment, a 'definitive' Star Wars game has not been forthcoming. Yet in 'Knights of the Old Republic', Bioware may have found the genre and approach most likely to satiate many fans' appetites. Read all about this fabulous role-playing game, in this brand new preview."
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Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic More

Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic

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  • Have people not played Jedi Knight and Jedi Knight II???? These are easily two of the best games ever made, and they just ooze that great Star Wars feeling.
    • Jedi Knight II blows.

      a. Boring.
      b. The more powerful you get the more borning it gets.
      c. Yes, yes multiplayer IS fun but that's not the game thats cutting your brother's arm off with a lightsaber.

    • don't forget the Episode I pinball game (Score:5, Interesting)

      by krog ( 25663 ) on Thursday July 11, 2002 @10:47AM (#3864585) Homepage
      perhaps the best thing to come out of Episode I was one of the last production pinball games, Star Wars Episode I [wms.com] Pinball 2000. totally cool tech (Pinball 2000 is the name of the pinball tables containing a video monitor in the back), a fun playfield and very, very few Jar Jar noises. :)

      Williams knew how to make 'em.
      • someone mod this guy up. well-themed pinball tables are even more immersive than video games. they really give your mind room to get into a groove and let your imagination run wild. Episode I Pinball is a great table.

        also see Medieval Madness [pinball.com] for the best pinball game ever made by mortal man. RIP, Williams Pinball Division.
      • A best-selling Episode 1 bar game they should have made is Whack-a-Mole, only with Jar-Jar heads. It could include voice samples that taunt you for having a low score like, "Meesa thinkin you a muy muy loser," which would only piss you off to the point that you HAD to play again, just to show that %$&%$#! gungan who's boss. It'd be like crack for Star Wars geeks, who'd dump a boatload of quarters into that thing.
    • Have people not played Jedi Knight and Jedi Knight II???? These are easily two of the best games ever made, and they just ooze that great Star Wars feeling.
      I agree that these are both damn fine Star Wars game, but you can't fly an X-Wing or Tie Fighter, you can't control an AT-AT (without cheating anyway) and of course there's no pod racing to be found.

      Star Wars has a lot of facets and no game captures them all. Not sure if this one will but I think the last one to try was Shadows of the Empire and we all know how effective that was. This is why most Star Wars game focus on one thing (light sabers, dogfighting, racing, planning Gungan cities) and also why there are so many of them.

      Just be glad LucasArts isn't afraid to outsource development anymore.

      • Star Wars has a lot of facets and no game captures them all.

        I respectfully disagree. The key focus of the entire original series (note that this covers the original three movies) was a single man nailing one good shot with the help of a friend and taking down an empire by hitting the right chink. And the original movie had the purest form of that... the battle plans are carried through to the scarred and worn remaining X and Y wing pilots, and the new guy who used to hunt wamprats back home takes out the key position. It's an old old story of the local kid becoming a grunt and using the power (of god, of purity of valour, of simple bravery, of his connection to the land, of gift of birth, of the Force) to do what needs to be done. The crux, the action of the story is that act... and it's always a single shot, with assistance, that takes out the bad guys. The friend and the hero trade off, but that shot is the moment of glory.

        So, what captures that? I respectfully submit that in 1983, a vector graphic cabinet rumbling "The Force is with you... always" captured the simplicity of that moment. After all, it *is* the Star Wars Video Game, and we were all high on the latest installment, wondering when Episode VII would come out. The battles in the original series of movies were simple - nameless and faceless stormtroopers piloting nameless and faceless tie fighters that swarmed after the rough and tumble good guys. They each made their run, and the home town kid makes good.

        You can go on about the temptation of Luke, but how is that a good videogame? Toss it in an RPG, and we know what is coming. Change the storyline, and it's merely a story set in the same universe. I liked Tales from Jabba's Palace, sure, but it wasn't Empire. To capture the movies *themselves*, you need action - everybody knows the plot and characters. If you "add" to them (with A wings or extra missions on new planets), you're making a good video game - but you beyond "capturing the movie". When you play Star Wars, making run after run at the Death Star, you're being Luke Skywalker taking down the Empire. And, in the end "Luke, Han and Leia take down the Empire" is the entire story. And every kid wants to be Luke, Han or Leia.

        As I said at the beginning, this all applies only to the 'first' three movies. The prequels are fragmented in message, theme and character. Rather than hinting at a greater universe populated by various factions, they show it. And that dulls the movies in terms of sharp, simple story. Luke and Han nailed the reactors through good piloting (even without the Force, Luke was a great pilot), but Anakin "Oops'ed" his way through his first *two* engagements (the pod race and the space battle). It's kinda hard to want to put yourself in the place of someone who "accidently" wins.

        I dunno - maybe a button masher with lots of FMVs would capture Ep. I. :)

        --
        Evan

    • ditto. from the evil antagonist to the squirming small-time bad guys to the storm troopers that can't hit the broad side of a barn, the game (jk2 at least, i can't vouch for 1) gushes original trilogy goodness.
    • You mean it leaves you with that feeling of dissapointment in that you just paid for a giant second rate advertisement for collectible toys and 3D rendering software? :)

  • So what happens, as it always does, when the cheaters come in and create the clone army? Can we count on Jar-Jar to save us?
  • A game like this, where there is actually a storyline and real characters to interact with (say what you will about the movies in this respect) interests me far more than a game like the Star Wars MMORPG from Verant.

    The immersion of interacting with a real character instead of hordes of l33t 13 year-olds 'camping the wookiee' is far more appealing.
    • I don't think that one game could satisfy ALL starwars fans appetites. Starwars fans are more of a heterogenous group than many think, with varying tastes in games/literature/etc...

      For some, the MMORPG will be the end all be all of starwars games. Others enjoy action oriented games like Jedi Knight. Some like pen and paper, some like flight sims such as X-wing.

      Personally, I would like to see a game like Neverwinter.

    • I may be wrong, but from what I've read, Verant seems to be taking steps to prevent SWG from having some of the most glaring problems in EQ. Hopefully they'll implement things like multi-spawn dungeons (a la Anarchy Online) so that we aren't stuck with those kinds of issues.

      My pet peeve with Verant is that they've resorted to lazy game design techniques in EQ - rewards are always at least 5 levels too late for the level you need to be to accomplish the task, meditation/healing time with no alternatives such as potions... These are all there simply to make the game longer. They could keep us hooked by providing more compelling content, but instead they chose to just make us sit. I suppose it's an ok decision from an economic standpoint...

      The attitude seems to have changed in the last few months, though. They're not trying quite as hard to tell me I'll enjoy the game more if they make it more difficult to progress.

      Personally, I'm looking forward to the more open-ended nature of SWG. I just want to buy a little plot of land, run some vaporators, have a few droids to call my own...

      What does this have to do with the article? Nothing. But I couldn't read the review because it's been /.ed already.

    • I don't know what this is a euphemism for yet, but it will be for something before the day is out.

  • Bioware Waves Hand... (Score:3, Funny)

    by razablade ( 118107 ) on Thursday July 11, 2002 @10:40AM (#3864534)
    This game WILL satiate your appetite...

  • how do you know? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by bludstone ( 103539 )
    "Read all about this fabulous role-playing game.."

    how do you know its fabulous? have you played it? has anyone played it?

    oh wait, you are ASSUMING its good... okay.. just making things clear
    • "Read all about this fabulous role-playing game.." how do you know we can read it? have you heard of the 'slashdot effect'? has anyone read it? oh wait, you are ASSUMING we can read it... okay.. just making things clear
  • From the article:

    "it looks like this one has got all the right ingredients to make not only one of the best RPGs ever, but the definitive Star Wars title."

    How can Star Wars Galaxies not be called the deifnitive Star Wars game? KotOR is set 4000 years before the familiar Star Wars tales! Galaxies is set in the middle trilogy's era. I think that would "immerse them directly in the world they longed to be part of".

  • Galaxies. (Score:1, Funny)

    by Icephreak1 ( 267199 )
    Already forgetting are you, Mr. Taco? [starwarsgalaxies.com]

  • No definitive Star Wars game? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by John_Booty ( 149925 ) <johnbooty@noSpAm.bootyproject.org> on Thursday July 11, 2002 @10:46AM (#3864581) Homepage
    a 'definitive' Star Wars game has not been forthcoming.

    I guess the author of this post never played TIE Fighter on the PC. One of the most amazing games I've ever played, and I think my opinion matches the general concensus.

    It often makes the Top 10 in "best games of all time lists". I think it may have been in the top five in one of those lists which appeared in a print PC gaming magazine several years ago.
    • I guess the author of this post never played TIE Fighter on the PC. One of the most amazing games I've ever played, and I think my opinion matches the general concensus.

      Ahhhh .... Tie Fighter

      I had completely forgotten about it. It's one of the few games that I thought was worth the money that I spent on it.

      And that includes the money spent on a new mouse after blasting away all those nasty rebels trying to do save the universe from my evil clutches.

      Thank you for restoring those memories!

    • Are you kidding? The original X-Wing was so amazingly better than TIE Fighter. You flew for the good side, and (resisting urge to hit caps lock) you got to fly the trench run. THE TRENCH RUN! (sorry). When you drop that torpedo into the port, it is just the coolest thing ever. The original SW sit down video game had a trench run that was pretty excellent, but the graphics where green lines, which isn't too immersive. TIE Fighter was good. Rogue Squadrod had it's moments. But due almost entirely to the trench run, X-Wing will always be one of my favorite games.

      -B
      • The trench run was really anticlimactic for me. Tie Fighter was just a better overall game from a lot of perspectives (updated engine, better mission development, the joy of being a bad guy, etc).

        You fly in your little trench. Vader is my copilot (er, wingman).

      • Are you kidding? The original X-Wing was so amazingly better than TIE Fighter. You flew for the good side, and (resisting urge to hit caps lock) you got to fly the trench run. THE TRENCH RUN! (sorry). When you drop that torpedo into the port, it is just the coolest thing ever. The original SW sit down video game had a trench run that was pretty excellent, but the graphics where green lines, which isn't too immersive. TIE Fighter was good. Rogue Squadrod had it's moments. But due almost entirely to the trench run, X-Wing will always be one of my favorite games.

        How about X-Wing Alliance? It has everything that you liked about X-Wing and TIE Fighter, it has the excellent multiplayer parts of X-Wing vs. TIE Fighter, but it lets you fly even more different ships, including the Millenium Falcon. If that's not enough, you also get to fly the Falcon into the Death Star MkII and take out the reactors yourself, then fly back out all the while being chansed by squads of TIE Fighters! Now I'm telling you, that's excitement!

        I've played Dark Forces, Dark Forces II/Jedi Knight I, Jedi Knight II, X-Wing, TIE Fighter, X-Wing vs. TIE Fighter, and X-Wing Alliance. Those two games very nicely sum up the total experience of the Star Wars universe for me. The only way you could make it better would be to merge the two genres while retaining the depth of each individual genre.

        Of course, that will never happen. I mean, why make a game that combines genres like that instead of making 2 separate games? If you make a combined game it will cost you almost as much as making 2 separate games. If you make them separaretly then the people like me who love both genres will buy both separate games. If you make a combined game then you risk alienating the Flight Sim purists or FPS purists, and you only get sales from one game. That's the real injustice of the Star Wars license.
    • I wholeheartedly agree. Unfortunantly, the "general concensus" does not agree with you, as they've never played the game. (Despite it being released [mobygames.com] several [mobygames.com] times [mobygames.com].)

      Heck, even paid game reviewers who are big Star Wars fans haven't played it [gamespot.com]. I don't even think the famous Gabe [penny-arcade.com] has played it, nevermind all the other "kiddies" out there. Alas, even in it's newest re-release, it still doesn't have enough eye candy to draw in the younger generation. They'll just go on with their lives thinking Rogue Leader is the penultimate in Star Wars sims. Bleech.
    • Wing Commander II and III were way better than Tie Fighter.
    • Hell yeah. Too bad the expansion packs to that game ruined it with the Tie Defender. Flying a ship with the firepower of a Star Destroyer and the manuverability of an A-Wing just takes all the fun out of it, no matter how many waves of X-Wings they send at you.
    • Actually, I believe PC Gamer gave it the top spot just a couple of years ago. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it still held that spot today.

      Rogue Squadron: Rogue Leader is pretty damn fantastic too. The visuals are amazing, and let's not discount the mission in which you actually fly *into* the second Death Star. Wow. And of course there's the complete Battle of Hoth, and the Battle of Endor, and you get to steal a TIE Fighter, and fly around in Cloud City...I could obviously go on and on.

      But TIE Fighter is still better b/c you could become one of the Emporer's elite fighter squad by listening to the shady guy in the corner...now *that* was cool.
    • And let's not forget X-Wing, either. While I agree that Tie Fighter broke more ground, because it was more original in terms of the direction it took (I mean, how much time in all of the movies combined do you get to see the Empire's slant on things?), I nearly burst with joy when I found out I would be running an assault on the Death Star during the final level. And that made it seem as hard as it looked in the movie -- laser tower firing on approach, trench cannons busting a cap in you and your crew as you flew down the claustrophobic corridor, and then getting to dump oodles of plasma-laden lovin' straight down the throat of the planet-sized weapon.

      Too bad they haven't been able to crank out anything nearly as cool since. Dark Forces was fun, but I didn't have much desire to play the single player version again once I beat it.
    • I'm rather partial to Galactic Empires myself. Something about walking a bunch of AT-AT's into a Gungan base just gives me a warm fuzzy.
  • Hopefully they'll put as much effort as they have oriented with NWN into getting a linux port out. Star Wars, linux client and a RPG combination would be a wet dream of all the cubicle dwellers with yoda and imperial walker figurines around their desks. It's nice to see a canadian company carrying the torch of linux gaming, as long as they don't get too disheartened by the snags they encountered with NWN.
    • Hopefully they'll put as much effort as they have oriented with NWN into getting a linux port out.

      hehe none?

      NWN Linux Client MIA atm. wherabouts unknown

  • Am I the only one who's missing old Lucas Arts games? I spent years on Full Throttle, Sam & Max Hit The Road, Day Of The Tentacle and Indiana Jones's Fate Of Atlantis!
  • I'm getting more than a few errormessages (from "/") - if others have problems, here's the whole preview as taken from my cache.


    A not-so-long time ago, in a galaxy not so far away, gamers throughout the planet longed for the ultimate Star Wars experience; it would have to be one that immersed them directly in the world they longed to be part of, and in such a way that it would provide hours upon hours of gaming bliss. That experience, sadly, has remained elusive. However, just when all of the would-be Jedi were about to give up to the dark side, a magical triumvirate consisting of three of the most powerful light side icons was formed. First to appear was LucasArts; the organization ran by the master of all Jedi (whose force power was beginning to wane in the world of gaming). Second, the master of all things operational, Lord Gates, created the grand machine on which the elusive experience may be created. Thirdly, there was BioWare, a rogue group of scoundrels that have repeatedly proven themselves experts in the field of RPG creation. It would seem, on the surface, to be a union of medichlorians foretold by the prophets. However, the answer to whether the fruit of this union becomes the most powerful Jedi in the universe or just another fallen hero turned Sith Lord is an answer too cloudy to be foretold.

    May 2002 has come and gone, and taken another E3 with it. It was at this yearly convention that gamers got their first real glimpse of BioWare's highly anticipated RPG Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic. From the reports received back from the Bothan spies sent to the trade show, it looks like this one has got all the right ingredients to make not only one of the best RPGs ever, but the definitive Star Wars title.

    It will take players to a time about 4000 years prior to the tales told in the films, during a period in which the Jedi and the Sith numbered in the thousands, and were locked in an epic struggle. Players assume the role of a human (players' parties consist of three characters, which can include humans, droids, Twi'leks, Wookies, etc) Jedi, whose decisions and actions not only affect his future (players can become Sith if they act too evil), but the outcome of this conflict on a much grander scale. The specific details of the storyline are still being kept quiet, but the developers assure that it involves stopping the Sith at all costs.

    Players start out by building their character to spec, and then set out on the adventure which will mold and shape said character based on deeds and actions. The player sets the beginning skill points and combat feats, but different skills and abilities are added as the game progresses. BioWare has mentioned that quite a lot of painstaking detail has been presented in the game, and players will even be able to construct their character's lightsaber (which is a fundemental skill of any padawan), instead of just picking one up "weapon-up" style. The clothing and armaments of said characters will appear on their model no matter how you choose to dress them, and their appearance will affect how you are perceived by others. Even the most philanthropic Jedi will not be trusted if he walks through an environment wearing a black cloak, etc.

    Speaking of environments, KOTOR will offer a universe spanning ten different worlds, which includes familiar favorites as well as completely new ones. Expect to travel to such places as Tatooine, the Sith world of Korriban, the Jedi Academy on Dantooine and the Wookiee homeworld of Kashyyyk. The player's home will be the Ebon Hawk, a familiar-looking predeccessor to a certain famous Corellian smuggler's "fastest hunk-o'- junk" in the galaxy. Players will be able to "live" inside the ship, interact with others, and even fly her about during certain challenges. Think of the Ebon Hawk as the "100 gil" per night Inn that you take with you everywhere you go (for purposes of explaining its role within this massive RPG). It can also act as a storage depot for the extra items you or your Wookie are finding a little too cumbersome to lug around.

    Their will be a wide array of weapons (most of which are still under wraps with the developer), but lightsabers, blasters, bowcasters, and vibro blades have been assured. The story is one of epic proportions, the stuff one would expect from a BioWare RPG, the combat is going to consist of real time, rule based combat, and the character's development is directly related to the outcome of choices and actions. An interesting aspect of the game is that to add replayability, certain areas are only open to certain types of characters... in short, a fully angelic Jedi is not going to be able to get into highly Sith populated areas and vice versa. The next play through would warrant a more evil upbringing of the character to become welcome there.

    What would a good RPG be without tons of mini-game side quests? Well, not a really good one after all. KOTOR won't disappoint in this regard, either, as the developers have included many mini games throughout the world, some required to progress through the main story, and some purely optional. They've been quoted as saying that they like to use mini games in places where one would normally just be watching a cutscene, so its execution sounds a bit innovative and welcome from the start. Also, all the in- game dialogue text will be spoken by character voice as well, an excellent feature that has only become possible of late (with this generation's hardware) because of the sheer amount of dialogue a typical forty hour RPG would require. Expect to be completely enveloped in the Star Wats universe.

    Any character within your party can be controlled, and the AI will take over for the other two in the meantime. Players may switch from character to character at will. Saving progress is an anywhere, anytime system... providing the player is not in a situation of impending danger at the time. Saving in the midst of a "boss" battle will be right out.

    The Xbox and PC versions will be identical in terms of gameplay, but there will be obvious control differences. BioWare has claimed that the whole title from beginning to end will be "longer than your typical console RPG, but not quite as enormous as Baldur's Gate 2", so expect a solid forty+ hours of saber swinging, force pushing, Sith Lord bashing, no Jar-Jar goodness when the Xbox version streets this fall.

  • Full article... (Score:5, Informative)

    by digerata ( 516939 ) on Thursday July 11, 2002 @10:47AM (#3864593) Homepage
    Sooo Shlaaashed the site is.
    Article Reads:

    A not-so-long time ago, in a galaxy not so far away, gamers throughout the planet longed for the ultimate Star Wars experience; it would have to be one that immersed them directly in the world they longed to be part of, and in such a way that it would provide hours upon hours of gaming bliss. That experience, sadly, has remained elusive. However, just when all of the would-be Jedi were about to give up to the dark side, a magical triumvirate consisting of three of the most powerful light side icons was formed. First to appear was LucasArts; the organization ran by the master of all Jedi (whose force power was beginning to wane in the world of gaming). Second, the master of all things operational, Lord Gates, created the grand machine on which the elusive experience may be created. Thirdly, there was BioWare, a rogue group of scoundrels that have repeatedly proven themselves experts in the field of RPG creation. It would seem, on the surface, to be a union of medichlorians foretold by the prophets. However, the answer to whether the fruit of this union becomes the most powerful Jedi in the universe or just another fallen hero turned Sith Lord is an answer too cloudy to be foretold.

    May 2002 has come and gone, and taken another E3 with it. It was at this yearly convention that gamers got their first real glimpse of BioWare's highly anticipated RPG Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic. From the reports received back from the Bothan spies sent to the trade show, it looks like this one has got all the right ingredients to make not only one of the best RPGs ever, but the definitive Star Wars title.

    It will take players to a time about 4000 years prior to the tales told in the films, during a period in which the Jedi and the Sith numbered in the thousands, and were locked in an epic struggle. Players assume the role of a human (players' parties consist of three characters, which can include humans, droids, Twi'leks, Wookies, etc) Jedi, whose decisions and actions not only affect his future (players can become Sith if they act too evil), but the outcome of this conflict on a much grander scale. The specific details of the storyline are still being kept quiet, but the developers assure that it involves stopping the Sith at all costs.

    Players start out by building their character to spec, and then set out on the adventure which will mold and shape said character based on deeds and actions. The player sets the beginning skill points and combat feats, but different skills and abilities are added as the game progresses. BioWare has mentioned that quite a lot of painstaking detail has been presented in the game, and players will even be able to construct their character's lightsaber (which is a fundemental skill of any padawan), instead of just picking one up "weapon-up" style. The clothing and armaments of said characters will appear on their model no matter how you choose to dress them, and their appearance will affect how you are perceived by others. Even the most philanthropic Jedi will not be trusted if he walks through an environment wearing a black cloak, etc.

    Speaking of environments, KOTOR will offer a universe spanning ten different worlds, which includes familiar favorites as well as completely new ones. Expect to travel to such places as Tatooine, the Sith world of Korriban, the Jedi Academy on Dantooine and the Wookiee homeworld of Kashyyyk. The player's home will be the Ebon Hawk, a familiar-looking predeccessor to a certain famous Corellian smuggler's "fastest hunk-o'-junk" in the galaxy. Players will be able to "live" inside the ship, interact with others, and even fly her about during certain challenges. Think of the Ebon Hawk as the "100 gil" per night Inn that you take with you everywhere you go (for purposes of explaining its role within this massive RPG). It can also act as a storage depot for the extra items you or your Wookie are finding a little too cumbersome to lug around.

    Their will be a wide array of weapons (most of which are still under wraps with the developer), but lightsabers, blasters, bowcasters, and vibro blades have been assured. The story is one of epic proportions, the stuff one would expect from a BioWare RPG, the combat is going to consist of real time, rule based combat, and the character's development is directly related to the outcome of choices and actions. An interesting aspect of the game is that to add replayability, certain areas are only open to certain types of characters... in short, a fully angelic Jedi is not going to be able to get into highly Sith populated areas and vice versa. The next play through would warrant a more evil upbringing of the character to become welcome there.

    What would a good RPG be without tons of mini-game side quests? Well, not a really good one after all. KOTOR won't disappoint in this regard, either, as the developers have included many mini games throughout the world, some required to progress through the main story, and some purely optional. They've been quoted as saying that they like to use mini games in places where one would normally just be watching a cutscene, so its execution sounds a bit innovative and welcome from the start. Also, all the in-game dialogue text will be spoken by character voice as well, an excellent feature that has only become possible of late (with this generation's hardware) because of the sheer amount of dialogue a typical forty hour RPG would require. Expect to be completely enveloped in the Star Wats universe.

    Any character within your party can be controlled, and the AI will take over for the other two in the meantime. Players may switch from character to character at will. Saving progress is an anywhere, anytime system... providing the player is not in a situation of impending danger at the time. Saving in the midst of a "boss" battle will be right out.

    The Xbox and PC versions will be identical in terms of gameplay, but there will be obvious control differences. BioWare has claimed that the whole title from beginning to end will be "longer than your typical console RPG, but not quite as enormous as Baldur's Gate 2", so expect a solid forty+ hours of saber swinging, force pushing, Sith Lord bashing, no Jar-Jar goodness when the Xbox version streets this fall.

    • I wanted to see the screen shots bad, but it took awhile. Check some of them out here:

      http://codemaster.atdoner.com/swpics [atdoner.com]

    • Will someone please mod down these idiots posting the whole story? If I want to read it I'll wait until the server recovers and get it from the source. I don't need to scroll through three copies of the article while trying to read the comments. If you want to mirror a site, mirror it on your own server and post a link.
    • You go back 4,000 years, and the technology is already there for droids.

      Makes me think that technological research must have been completely stagnated by the time of the movies.
      • Stagnation is one theory in the Star Wars rationalization camp. The other major theory is the idea that they've effectively maxed out their technology. It is established canon that a trip across the galaxy is a matter of hours at most, the energy specs on the weapons are absurdly large, computers have reached human-level intelligence (and we can assume there is no higher intelligence possible for the sake of argument), and the Empire could build most of a "small-moon sized" battlestation in 8 months.

        Granted, we believe that more progress could be made in the AI department in the real world, for instance, but for the sake of suspension of disbelief it is plausible to accept that human-level intelligence is the maximum possible, and that the other demonstrated limits are indeed the insuperable maximums of the universe.

        (Note I am neither propounding nor defending either theory, just pointing out their existance.)

        This site [stardestroyer.net] and this site [theforce.net] are kick-ass explorations of Star Wars (and the first site does Star Trek in passing) rationalizations. Do not go if you have work to do; if you merely like science or Star Wars, those sites will suck you in for a couple of days.
      • The republic is ~30,000 years old. 1,000 generations at about 30 years per generation. So this is a *very* old civilization and they clearly where very advanced when the republic was founded. So 4,000 years is pretty recent history. And yes in the expanded universe stuff there is much mention of lostech and the fact that they had lost much from the heyday of the old republic also the new movies are set after decline started. So yes you are right.
    • Second, the master of all things operational, Lord Gates, created the grand machine on which the elusive experience may be created.

      So now the ultimate weapon [xbox.com] of the dark lord [slashdot.org] of the sith is a GOOD thing?

      Somebody has fallen for a Jedi mind trick...

    • Sounds like the Aurora Engine which they've been working on for, oh, 4 years, is going to see some good use. This sounds like Neverwinter Nights with many graphical upgrades and very few engine upgrades. (Seeing the word 'combat feat' is very much a tip off.)

  • I can't wait! (Score:3, Funny)

    by Clue4All ( 580842 ) on Thursday July 11, 2002 @10:48AM (#3864598) Homepage
    In the continuing Bioware tradition, I think we can expect to see this game sometime around 2006.

  • No definitive Star Wars game? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Ezubaric ( 464724 ) on Thursday July 11, 2002 @10:51AM (#3864615) Homepage

    Hmm . . . I'm sure I'm jumping on a crowded ship, but I thought that I'd add my two cents.

    Tie Fighter

    This game created an immersive atmosphere, had some impressive graphics and cutscenes for a game that came on five floppy disks, and (along with the add on) utterly wrecked my first joystick. It was called the 2nd best game of all time by PC Gamer not too long ago; I don't think that it should be so abruptly forgotten.

    Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight

    PC Gamer called this the best game of the year when it came out, and it really was a keeper. It didn't have the best graphics, but I really liked how well it integrated the force powers and lightsabr into the game. I kicked the asses of quite a few UT and Quake gurus because I used my force powers wisely and just didn't barge into a room. A great 3D shooter that worked well within the SW universe.

    I also think that it's also pretty impressive how LucasArts worked with the fan community to create homebrew levels for these two great games. I think the only area where LucasArts has perhaps fallen short is in the creation of a SW strategy game (or perhaps an adventure game, which would be cool given how good LucasArts is at adventure).

    Perhaps there is no single definitive SW game, but most would agree that there are at least two really strong contenders.
  • What about Star Wars Galaxies [sony.com]? I thought that was the big game they were hyping...

    Travis

  • Ummmm....what? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by SuiteSisterMary ( 123932 ) <{slebrun} {at} {gmail.com}> on Thursday July 11, 2002 @10:52AM (#3864619) Journal
    Despite the many impressive efforts in recent years of Lucas Arts Entertainment, a 'definitive' Star Wars game has not been forthcoming.

    Hrm. X-Wing? Better yet, TiE Fighter? LORD were those 'definitive.'

    Or the Dark Forces/Jedi Knight series? JK2: Jedi Outcast is an AMAZING game. I love online saber dueling.

  • Isn't Galaxies supposed to be the definitive Star Wars game? If not, then why is that the game people from E3 have been talking about?

  • No definitive game? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by sielwolf ( 246764 ) on Thursday July 11, 2002 @10:52AM (#3864625) Homepage Journal
    What about X-Wing* (for flight sims) and Dark Forces (for FPS's)? Both were pretty stellar at the time of their releases and are still fun as heck to play.

    I loved naming the pilots and getting the wacky pictures in X-Wing: Asskicke, Shamu...

    And what about the intro movies?

    Adm. Ackbar: "Werr arr Runnder rattak by impirrial forcres! Begrin evasive manrurvers! Rawch the Rex-ring riders!"

    Hell I still say that to this day and it still kills me.

    *In truth I thought TIE Fighter was even better than X-Wing even though it was just kind of a cut and paste. I preferred the thrill of flying the fast and fragile TIEs around slaying things with your wingmen. As far as I can remember the wingman in both games was topnotch.
    • There were two problems with X-wing. The first was the channel run sucked (jerkiness made it just too difficult to fly it as intended on most machines of the day), and the second was that your wingman sucked. You'd end up killing 95% of the enemy fighters yourself.

      TIE Fighter had better wingmen (except in missions where their skill was purposely degraded), and you sure needed them flying Tie Fighters and Interceptors (which were basically dead if you were hit once - it was pretty tough).

  • Why? Because:

    1. The kids who watched the movie will be old enough to play the games
    2. It doesn't overkill the Star Wars fanfare
    3. Releasing a game 2 years from now will keep Star Wars in the public's mind...

  • From the Linked Page...
    First to appear was LucasArts; the organization ran by the master of all Jedi (whose force power was beginning to wane in the world of gaming). Second, the master of all things operational, Lord Gates, created the grand machine on which the elusive experience may be created. Thirdly, there was BioWare, a rogue group of scoundrels that have repeatedly proven themselves experts in the field of RPG creation.

    Sith Lord Gates it should read!

    Fear leads to Envy, Envy to Greed and that is the path the Darkside...

    This sounds like a title that may turn me to the Darkside (xbox).

    Where is our shining Princess bearing good tidings and a PS2 version when you need her?

    Hell, a hairy Wookee would do...

  • What does it mean? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Grape Shasta ( 176655 ) on Thursday July 11, 2002 @10:56AM (#3864654) Journal
    What a cryptic preview. Appearantly the title of this new game is "Server Error in '/' Application."

    What does that mean? In what strange direction are they taking the Star Wars universe? I can't wait to see what the Slash Application is, and what the Jedi will have to do to stop it.

    But most importantly, will I be able to choose to play as either the Server or the Served?

    And I've never seen a preview with source code to the game either. Anyone know what this does?
    <!-- Web.Config Configuration File -->

    <configuration>
    <system.web>
    <customErrors mode="Off"/>
    </system.web>
    </configuration>
  • hopefully bioware will stick to the classic gameplay -- for the love of god, i want to inspect containers only to discover, crestfallen, that they contain "DROID PRTS" until i get shot, rotate in place for a few seconds and puff explosions that closer resemble fungal growths than combustion reactions.

    maybe i'll get to escort admiral ackbar again only to watch the hapless bastard get snuffed by that damn tie bomber who thinks hes so great with his concussion missiles.

    ok, fine, x-wing's 320x200 graphics and turd-shaped rebel capital ships aren't ever coming back. i hope i can at least play as an ewok.

  • What About Starwars MUX?! (Score:3, Funny)

    by Drath ( 50447 ) on Thursday July 11, 2002 @10:58AM (#3864670)
    I beg to differ, the star wars MUX i played in higschool was very definitive..until i got kicked off for not playing in character by stealing a tie fighter and killing everyone in the bar on tatooine.

    Er and then getting kicked off perminantly when i created a character described as "someone who steals spaceships and kills people on tatooine"

    The best part was that once you get kicked everytime you try to log on with your character the room you appeared in was "block of carbonite"
  • I rather liked X-Wing, Tie Fighter and X-wing versus Tie Fighter. I thought they were true to the mythos, and very well executed.

    In recent memory, I wasted an ass-load of time playing Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast. Yeah, it was a bit dumb in places - why the hell did Lando show up, besides celebrity cameo? But the saber fighting was very well done, and the levels were long and in some cases quite difficult. Tons of fun, I thought.

  • Certainly is a definitive game (Score:5, Funny)

    by mccalli ( 323026 ) on Thursday July 11, 2002 @11:05AM (#3864718) Homepage
    It was called, unsurprisingly, Star Wars.

    It's the wireframe arcade machine, where you blast the Ties, shoot the tops of towers, then hurtle down the trench to release your photon torpedoes and blow up the Death Star.

    Kids today. Pah. Why, this 20 year plus classic is still being aped in the first level of Star Wars:Rogue Leader II game for Nintendo GameCube. I know - I have that game, have played it, 'quite' like it but not as much as SuperMonkeyBall. Which itself...err...'apes' Marble Madness. Another ancient arcade machine.

    Kids. Pah. And again I say...Pah!

    Cheers,
    'Grumpy Old Uncle' Ian

  • Strange (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Rogerborg ( 306625 ) on Thursday July 11, 2002 @11:09AM (#3864749) Homepage

    I thought the idea of an RPG is that you get to play different roles. I'm inferring from this preview that you only get to be a Jedi or Sith, with extra capabilities supplied by a a couple of AI henchmen.

    I'm not sure how this is significantly different from a team game of Jedi Knight 2. I mean, it's fun running around swing a saber and using Force Grip and all, but in an RPG, wouldn't it be more fulfilling to have a range of options? The henchman/familiar system in Neverwinter Nights is great, but who'd want to play it if you only got to be a wizard?

    Also, one of the things that's really pissing me off about Eps 1 & 2 is that all of the protagonists are either Jedi, comic relief, or (admittedly rather tasty) sweater meat. Contrast with IV-VI, where Han doesn't get to use Deus ex machina. In fact, the hyperdrive breakdowns are, to my eyes, a nice play on how we've become tolerate of "and with one bound, our hero was free" solutions. While Luke's off being an icicle or getting in touch with his inner midichlorian, the real grunt work is done by Han and Chewie, by Leia and Lando, and even good old Wedge, who, please note, manages to not get bitchslapped by an AT-AT, and without the benefit of midichlorians at that. For me, this is the dramatic strength of IV-VI, and, be honest, who did you want to be when you played Star Wars as a kid? Han or Luke? Be honest now. ;-)

  • "a 'definitive' Star Wars game has not been forthcoming."

    I'd have to disagree with that, Tie Fighter was pretty damn good, as were several of the other SW related offerings. But there hasn't been a definative SW RPG (for computer that is, West End Games original Star Wars Roleplaying Game was pretty good). These arent really RPG's either, just FPS's with a plotline. True RPG's (as in dice and paper) are great because you can totally derail the plotline if you want (SCREW YOU MISTER 10x10 FOOT STONE CORRIDOR!). MUDs and their successors are fairly good equivalents but I don't think I've seen a stand-alone game that comes anywhere near true RPG. Too limited in plot options.
  • There isn't a colon in the name. Trust me. :)
  • I really hope LucasArts can come out with some great new games, but all the great LucasArts developers are gone, and the company imo will never be what it used to be.

    I also find it kind of sad that what used to be a totally in-house development company now has to hire out talent from other studios.

  • by Neverwinter Nights.. I'm still ploughing through BG2 as originally NWN was going to beable to import the characters from BG2, allowing you to take a character through BG1 to BG2 to NWN..

    But now thats been taken out of NWN in my eyes its just another game, and now Bioware are just another company.

    Excuse me if I dont hold my breath.

    I am wet with anticipation for StarWars Galaxies though!
  • TIE and XWING were great. They were difinitive. But stop reposting the same comments just so that you have something to say. I came up with something original!
  • Cripes... take everquest, change the graphics and sounds.. and Voila.. you have the definitive Star wars game that everyone wants to be a part of..

    It doesnt take a genius to see that. all of the MMORPG are exactly the same with just different graphics+sounds+rulesets ... just like EVERY RPG ever created..

    Why re-invent something... rebrand, and scrape in the dollars from the suckers^d^d^d^d^d^d^d players...
  • Neverwinter Knights of the Old Republic? I hope we don't need to go through another 5 solo-RPG's in the capmaign first.
  • That runtime error you're seeing? Thats the .NET response to the slashdot effect.
    (Thats not a knock on .NET, what web server DOES stand up to the slashdot effect?)

    Just thought a few people might be curious about the different looking error page.

    It does give you a peak at the nice XML based configuration file they've implemented. It works like Apache, in that you can make all changes to the server configuration through a text file, only its all in XML, and it doesn't require a restart of the server. One of the really great features of ASP.NET, in my opinion.
  • Does anyone know whether this will support collaborative multiplayer modes? I just got through with Baldur's Gate on the PS2, and my wife and I are just about finished with Halo, so we're really looking for video games which we can both play together. Sure, things like Spyro or Tomb Raider are great, but when one person has to watch for a half hour while the other finishes off a challenging level, then it gets kind of old, pretty fast.

    Anyway, I thought I'd read that KotOR would support two or three simultaneous players, like Baldur's Gate, but the review sort of half-implies otherwise. Does anyone know for sure?

    (better yet, can anyone recommend a good collaborative multi-player Xbox adventure / exploration game? Or even a *good* gaming site (there are so many out there, and they're all pretty horrid))
  • "Server error is '/' application..."

  • Star Wars Combine (Score:4, Informative)

    by bonch ( 38532 ) on Thursday July 11, 2002 @01:03PM (#3865469)
    You want a Star Wars RPG? Look no further. [swcombine.com] Contribute if you can.

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