Miyamoto vs. Everyone Else 488
Ian_Bailey writes "Wired writes Nintendo won't grow up, because of Shigeru Miyamoto. The creator of some of the most popular franchises, and the head of most of Nintendo's creative development, constantly aims his games at children. Many other devloppers admire his creativity, and believe that a mature-themed game would rock the entire industry. A very interesting read, and a bit of insight into the 'God of Games'."
what about Conker? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:what about Conker? (Score:2, Informative)
Look what happened to Conker's creators... (Score:4, Interesting)
Conker, the main character, is terribly cute. He curses and fights with a singing monster named the Great Mighty Poo.
Begin mental meltdown...
The game is cute and gameplay is intuitive and fun. One scene involves enticing a big breasted sunflower into intimate relations with a drunken king bee.
TILT!
Faced with this situation, Nintendo took what I suppose was the only logical path: they sold one of their hottest developer groups to rival Microsoft.
It was interesting to me that BFD was one of the last N-64 games... one review I read described it as "the last must-have N-64 game." I saw a kid-friendly Game Boy game featuring Conker the Squirrel at Blockbuster, but didn't rent it... what would be the point? That character is indelibly linked, in my mind, to the Song of the Great Mighty Poo.
So it wasn't too huge a surprise to me when I read the news that Microsoft had bought Rare from Nintendo [com.com]. I don't know how Rare managed to get Conker out Nintendo's door, but I'm guessing that someone wasn't too happy about it.
I sure wouldn't want to buy anything from the Redmond Empire... but if BFD-2 comes out for X-Box, I may have to put my moral compass back in the box. That said, I like the idea that I can turn to Nintendo for kid-friendly games that -- hopefully -- won't put the adults to sleep.
Not aimed at KIDS ... (Score:5, Interesting)
I've been playing the Japanese import of the GameCube "Legend of Zelda" game, and it's easily the best game ever made, irrespective of it's "toon-shading".
Metroid (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Metroid (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Metroid (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Metroid (Score:4, Informative)
So (Score:5, Insightful)
+ Encourages gameplay (Re:So) (Score:5, Insightful)
I also reckon that shying away from the photo-realistic eye-candy approach also means that you have to focus on gameplay which I quite often feel is sadly lacking from a lot of the more "modern adult games"
Re:+ Encourages gameplay (Re:So) (Score:4, Insightful)
Hell, yes. Smash Brothers and its Gamecube descendant are among the most fun fighting games I've played in years. One doesn't have to memorize five dozen thumb-wrenching control pad dances to have fun playing them, or do cool-looking stuff. And they're about as colorful and cartoonish as you get.
I'm not quite sure I agree (Score:3, Interesting)
The average demographic for video games is not as badly skewed towards pubescent males as it once was - I think I remember reading somewhere that the median age was between 19-20. If the target audience is growing up, Nintendo will probably alienate people who would prefer more mature themes - and 'mature' does not necessarily have to connote sex - unless they wake up.
That aside, I admire the man for his principles.
Re:I'm not quite sure I agree (Score:5, Interesting)
So while the gamers have gotten older, the desire to game hasn't necessarily changed. Many gamers look for solid games with more than just adult themes. If I want to play an adult themed game I can pick up any of a thousand variations. If I want to play a challenging, unique game that is going to keep me interested I don't have much to choose from. I feel Nintendo fills this niche even more than the family oriented nature of the games.
Re:I'm not quite sure I agree (Score:2)
Re:I'm not quite sure I agree (Score:3, Interesting)
On the one hand you've got younger people who want to play games, and on the other hand you've got older people who can afford to buy the hardware but didn't think it was a valid expenditure of money since they did not grow up with it. In the middle you've got people (like me) whose childhood coincided with the advent of gaming systems and who can now afford to buy their own equipment.
This segment of the population is increasing in age, and of course a company should continue to develop for it, but keep in mind also that we'll be dead in a few decades and in order to survive companies must continue to develop interest and loyalty from new gamers - the people Miyamoto is targeting.
In the end you really want to capture both groups - keep the people you have, and win over the next generation of customers. Since Miyamoto is not the only Nintendo developer it doesn't hurt them for him to continue to focus on his chosen audience. In fact, I applaud his decision. Leave the development of more mature games to the others, be they other Nintendo developers or their licensees.
Define 'mature' (Score:2, Interesting)
With so many... (Score:5, Interesting)
You can count on the nintendo offerings to be kid friendly and family oriented. I'll admit that's not really my cup of tea, but it's definitely the strong part of the market for Nintendo.
Any deviation from that plan would be a mistake in my opinion.
Re:With so many... (Score:4, Insightful)
Games like mario were playable by all ages. While the graphics have grown a bit more kiddish, I've known many parents that would happily sit down with their kid and play a game or two (and often enough, wait for the kid to go to bed so they can play for themselves).
Re:With so many... (Score:5, Interesting)
I hate to throw in my two cents....
But I will....
Nintendo owns a whole section of the console market by being "kid friendly". When I buy a game for my kid's Gamecube, I don't have to worry to much about it. I don't need to worry about GTA-3 showing up in Nintendo land. I haven't yet (NOTE: I said YET) seen a game with obvious gore. (No, I don't have Perfect Dark, or games like that, so I don't know what the gore factor is there).
Nintendo has Pokemon, Mario, and now Sonic. Nintendo has the EA sports games, Tony Hawk, Godzilla and Metroid.
As long as Nintendo stays kid safe/friendly, they will always have that market. The Xbox and PS-2 can fight over the teen/Young Adult market, but I won't be buying one of those anytime soon.
Re:With so many... (Score:5, Insightful)
Nintendo seems to be changing its tune on this topic. Blood Omen 2, Resident Evil, and several other moderately graphically violent games are available for the Gamecube.
I'd be surprised if something like Soldier of Fortune were released for their system, but I think even Nintendo realizes that they need to broaden their selection of titles to have the widest audience possible.
Re:With so many... (Score:4, Informative)
Just don't buy your kids Eternal Darkness, if you're worried about gore. There are plenty of zombies that can be hacked up, so it does get a bit gory.
However, the gore is second to the fact that this game is very successful at creating a scary, creepy environment. I had a few moments freaking out in the dark after playing it for a while - and I'm in my late 20's. I would play it in the dark, and have to stop every few hours, turn on the lights, and relax, to avoid getting too creeped out by it.
It would give younger kids nightmares, no doubt.
So much for everything being kid-friendly.
(BTW, it is an incredibly good game, and not just about shock value)
Seems like the article distorts the market a bit.. (Score:2, Insightful)
In fall 2001, Nintendo's GameCube became the third entry in a hotly contested console battle that includes Sony's PlayStation 2 and Microsoft's Xbox. Currently, Sony has a commanding lead, with 40 million units sold, while Nintendo and Microsoft struggle for a distant second place with 6 million units each
While I would agree that the XBox and Playstation are in direct competition, it seems like Nintendo diferentiates itself enough to compete. Not only do they target the games differently, but Nintendo prices it's consoles $50 lower and puts them in bright colors. They don't play DVD's like PS2 or XBox. It seems like Nintendo's goal is to offer something a little different, less features for a lower price, and that could be a winning strategy. (Not to mention not using CD's as media cuts down on the mod chipping piracy)
Also, I wouldn't say all their fans are kids. 2 of my former coworkers, ages 22 and 27, were huge fans of Super Monkey Ball 3
No sleeper hit (Score:3, Informative)
Eternal Darkness was no sleeper hit. It actually performed very poorly, barely selling 100,000 in North America (from rough estimates).
*shrugs*
Well, I'm buying it this winter, maybe sales will pick up for Christmas...
Re:No sleeper hit (Score:5, Interesting)
I totally agree with you.
The problem is because of all the technical skills needed to makes games these days. For example, programmers working on the PS2 need a good working knowledge of assembly to pull off some of the more advanced tricks and features of other consoles.
Maybe one day proper toolkits will be made and sold for cheap to developers to create fun games, while they purchase virtual actors to place in their game without the need to create models and animate that for all the actions. That way designers can focus on the content, simmilar to the independant scenes in audio and video now.
But now, when systems are so complex and gamers crave innovation every game needs its own engine, something that requires months of work, games do indeed need to make a profit to work. It has been recently emphasised by execs that the games industry is becoming a 'hit' industry, where 5% of the games account for 95% of the profits.
Of course, you can avert this kind of problem from happening. Buy games that were made by small teams, or didn't need as large as a budget, or aren't doing so well. Let the companies know that you appreciate their efforts. Help spread the hype away from the Metroid Primes and the Halos and the GTAs.
Re:No sleeper hit (Score:3, Interesting)
The reason why the gaming industry is so "hit" oriented now is because the consumer is simultaneously more and less informed. Instead of looking at the back of a box, thinking it looks cool, then throwing down money for it, people will often research extensively before buying. They'll read previews/reviews, ask for opinions on message boards, and many other things. One problem with this is that the only people to really plumb the depths of a gaming site's coverage are the hardcore gamers. The casual gamers often only know what every form of gaming media highlights on their front page, which is why games like Halo, Metroid Prime, and Metal Gear Solid are so popular. People are lazy, and often refuse to look beyond the surface of many things, including a gaming website's news coverage. The only way to make sure that less popular but very entertaining games are purchased and enjoyed is to alert people. Post on message boards, maybe write an article about a neglected game and ask that it be put on a gaming news site, anything to make people aware that a non-blockbuster game is well worth their gaming time and dollars.
For what it's worth... (Score:3, Funny)
Maybe someone should devlop Miyamoto.
This isn't an all bad thing (Score:5, Insightful)
In a market where so many companies put blood in their games to boost sales to the "ooooo! blood!" crowd, it's nice to see one of the founder of the modern console trying to stay away such mindless marketing. Maybe if some of the industry's programmers will wipe the blood and thong off their screens, they'll start making games with substance.
Additionally, there will always be a market for kid-friendly games. As long as there are dad's and Monday night football, they'll be in demand.
I don't want "mature" games (Score:5, Insightful)
New Super Mario Bros. (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:New Super Mario Bros. (Score:3, Insightful)
I personally thought the water jetpack thingy was a good idea. The platform paradigm is still there, and mario sunshine *does* feel to me like a mario game (if only, a little too easy).
Re:New Super Mario Bros. (Score:3, Funny)
As far as today's Mario games, this is a far cry from Mario Bros. 1. What is this crap Super Mario Bros. 3? Mario has this sui that can make him fly? You can go through levels non-linearly?
I like it (Score:2)
Not that their stuff is totally original, but they often have the more interesting titles.
let him be (Score:2)
The point is? (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not knocking violence and sex and gore in video games--there's a place for it. Unfortunately, these have become more important to some developers than solid plotlines, fun gameplay, and ease of use. Plus, if 'mature' games were less in number and less raked over by the media (GTA3:Vice city, etc), you'd hear less and less of "Video Games are to Blame for (sniper/drug use/carjackings/blah blah).
So my question is, if all games were of the "super mario bros"/"zelda" all ages yet fun category, would you not buy games of gore/sex/violence?
Just a thought.
Re:The point is? (Score:2, Insightful)
Many people don't play Grand Theft Auto games for the violence. I play them because they are large games (much larger than most FPSs and some RPGs) with lots of interaction with the environment going on. They are much less violent than an FPS, and they do require strategy, unlike Quake, Doom, or Unreal Tournament.
The reason that the media focuses on the GTA series is that it makes an easy scapegoat. Little Johnny stole a car? Was it because his parents weren't involved and he joined a gang? According to the six o'clock news : "It must have been the video games." Little Eric shot up his school? Was it that people were picking on him, beating him up, and nobody did anything to help him. Nope, "it must have been that he was playing GTA3 and learned about assault rifles". According to the media, there is no personal accountability, and there's nothing wrong with our society.
So my question is, if all games were of the "super mario bros"/"zelda" all ages yet fun category, would you not buy games of gore/sex/violence?
Well, if all games were fun yet non-violent, violent games wouldn't exist. Ignoring that, however, if I had a choice between a game that was large, expansive, and filled with sex, drugs and violence (Grand Theft Auto: Vice City), and a game that was just as large and expansive but lacking sex, drugs and violence (Final Fantasy X, but if that's too violent for you, the next Zelda game) on the same platform and the same price, I would pick the non-violent game. Unfortunatly, many people who develop games without violence choose platforms that I don't have. Zelda is not on PS2, and I'm not dropping over $200 to just to play Zelda.
Kids games?! (Score:5, Funny)
he made Zelda (Score:3, Insightful)
the article forgot a game.. (Score:3, Insightful)
pm
Re:the article forgot a game.. (Score:2)
mature themed games -- why? (Score:2, Interesting)
In my gaming experience, the level of maturity has very little to do with how well the game plays, it's much more of a "target the audience" marketing tool than a game design choice.
Besides, if Nintendo chose to shift to a more mature audience, they'd be going much more directly head-to-head with PS2 (a suicidal act, if anything.)
For The Record.... (Score:2)
I do not personally feel this way, I was actually paraphrasing Blackley:
There isn't anyone on the planet better at lasering into the lizard brain, that eye-attached-to-your-hand-attached-to-your-brain thing that makes it impossible to stop playing. GTA3 is good, but it's not revolutionary. What Miyamoto could bring to a game like that would be incredible.
I 'copied' the quote from memory, and misleadingly put quote marks around it.
I actually fully support Miyamoto and Nintendo, as I believe they are one of the few companies in the industry innovating anymore. I have recently purchased and been playing Animal Crossing and Metroid Prime. Very neat games.
interesting article, but some stupid quotes: (Score:5, Insightful)
"He is not helping things
What? All Miyamoto has done throughout his career is making truly awesome and different games!! The idea of a platform game (the original mario); the epic action adventure (zelda series); bringing videogames into 3D (mario 64). Virtually every project he has made or simply produced has been stellar.
Pikmin is a great example of a 'different' game. Has anyone played the latest Metroid (Prime)- the BEST GAME ever. And the next Zelda will be out in March (Metroid may have a short-lived stay at the top).
I've been a videogamer since 85, so I know what this man has brought to every console generation. Nintendo might have to freeze this guy like Disney froze Walt
I liked the article in general though - this man is truly a GOD. I don't care if his games are cutesy - they are the BEST!
interesting reply, but some stupid quotes: (Score:2)
Oooookaaaay. So those of use who used consoles in the 70's don't count? You truly want a pioneer, try Ralph Baer, Nolan Bushnell or Wally Higginbotham. Miyamoto is a great designer, but he stands on the shoulders of others.
Never mind that Metroid Prime was developed in Austin, Texas and Miyamoto didn't have a whole lot to do with the game let alone the design.
Re:interesting reply, but some stupid quotes: (Score:5, Insightful)
Higginbotham's 'bouncing spot on an oscilloscope' hack in the fifties could only be called a video game in the broadest possible sense of the word. It was a nice hack but it never went anywhere, and the man himself didn't see the potential in it either.
As to Bushnell and Baer, they started the arcade and home video games industries, for which all credit is due to them, but I wouldn't call them great video game designers. Great businessmen, yes.
Miyamoto has been a visionary in many of his games, ahead of his contemporaries, over a period of several decades. Even if you insist on drawing a line from Bushnell & Baer to Miyamoto, I think you will have to admit that the student has surpassed the masters.
Philosophical difference in a nut-shell (Score:5, Insightful)
"He is not helping things
And that right there is the huge difference between Miyamoto and Sony and Microsoft. Miyamoto has never "pushed" in his life. He doesn't make games to "push the technological envelope" (but they usually end up doing so). He doesn't make games to "push to a new demographic" (which he doesn't need to do, he hits everybody).
Miyamoto writes games! Miyamoto games are the perfect example of ars gratia artis. He doesn't make these games for the money or the fame, he writes them for himself. Which is exactly why he gets all the money and the fame.
It's just a shame so many people refuse to understand this one simple concept.
Donkey Kong (Score:4, Informative)
In fact, nearly all of the main video game genres were created before 1990. So it isn't hard to argue that most games released these days are derivative.
Two Sides of Every Coin (Score:3, Insightful)
OTOH, parents (hopefully) want a game console where most of the game titles would be "safe" for their children to play - Nintendo delivers.
Looks like Miyamoto wants Nintendo to take the latter.
Rock the industry, huh? (Score:5, Insightful)
I am a 30 year old gamer, I currently own and enjoy games in all three consoles, and I enjoy playing games like Splinter Cell and Eternal Darkness as I do Ape Escape and Sonic. I enjoy a game because it is addictive, it makes me want to play it more and, sometimes, because I like the story. Not because it has an adult theme, whatever that might be.
To finish of, I will say the following: the current generation of games has been spoilt with stupidly complex, hyper-hyped games with idiotic stories without any real substance (the last three Final Fantasy games being the best example) that they cannot appreciate that a game has to be innovative, simple and addictive to be good. There were no such things as "adult games" ten-fifteen years ago, yet people got by... I am looking forward to Zelda coming out in Europe, as I am sure lots of thirtysomething /.ers are. I am hoping it will maintain the standards set by Ocarina of time and Majora's mask and I do not care in the least whether the graphics are "childish" or not. Play the game, I say, not look at it.
Nintendo and Kids (Score:2, Interesting)
When the past meets the today (Score:3, Interesting)
When you're making a game where you only have a few bytes to describe the character, you have to think up something creative or else the character will be boring or won't make sense. So, he thinks up a plumber who always wears red and his brother who prefers green. Mario gets a few extra pixels around his stomach.
But now, with full 3-D games, they could make whatever characters they wanted to. Your character could look like a relatively normal peson because you could display all kinds of little subtleties that would be impossible when you're working in 4 or 8 bit. But we're seeing the original 8 bit characters like Mario or Donkey Kong translated into full 3D. I don't know if that's good or bad, but it's kind of funny if you think about it. I think limitations encourage creativity.
Game depression (Score:2, Interesting)
I'm thinking there will be another Video Game crash. Too many systems, way too many games. Just like how Atari went down.
All the games on the market are crappy racing games, crappy first person shooters, or crappy RPG's.
Re:Game depression (Score:3, Interesting)
Nintendo is in a unique position to survive that. They have a loyal audience and an excellent track record. People know what to expect when a new Nintendo machine is on the horizon, but that's not necessarily true with the other consoles. People buy Nintendo consoles because they know Miymaoto's going to make lightning strike again, but there's little to keep people coming back to Sony every time they turn out a new machine.
kart... (Score:2)
Ian Bailey? (Score:2, Funny)
evolution of graphics in games (Score:5, Insightful)
I think as the medium matures, we'll start to see more interesting and abstract art forms immerging from graphics. Games that are based around gameplay, will start to take over again, as graphics become something that you can manipulate the way you want to.
The graphics should become a way to help create an environment for the game. It shouldn't be the reason for creating the game.
bad business (Score:2)
Re:bad business (Score:5, Funny)
I know what a fantastic business person you are dirvish, but you have to remember, not everyone can be as good as you. Yes, you may be able to manage Nintendo 10 times better than it's currently run, but you have to understand, you're extremely gifted. You shouldn't brag about it.
I'm not saying you shouldn't use the skills you've been given, just don't rub it in someone's face if they don't have the natural talent you do. I'm sure they already feel bad enough about it as it is.
Re:bad business (Score:4, Insightful)
Kintanon
Re:bad business (Score:2)
I need sex & violence! (Score:5, Funny)
um... metroid (from a nintendo apologist) (Score:5, Insightful)
second, i kind of take offense at the idea that a game that doesn't drip with gore isn't aimed at adults. maybe i don't go for the garish motif of games like the Quake series. it's not because i'm unprepared to handle it; it's just that i think it's... tacky.
third, if you look at the general population of adults (not just adult gamers), i think kids are more likely to be able to wrap their minds around videogames than adults. it's sort of a stereotype, but it's true.. how many kids do you know that could wipe the floor with their parents and older relatives with any head-to-head game? so saying a game is "just aimed at kids" is sort of misunderstanding the situation a bit, imho.
Nintendo and market share (Score:2, Insightful)
I only have one thing to say... (Score:2, Funny)
Get on your feet!
*does the steve ballmer monkey dance*
Re:I only have one thing to say... (Score:2, Funny)
spellcheque! spellcheque! spellcheque!
Nintendo as a children's game company... (Score:2, Interesting)
Castlevania, Megman, Metroid . Come on, these games were just amazing. In fact they still are. But Nintendo has ceased to develop quality, wide audience games (w/ the exception of maybe zelda) and has instead mass produced crap for children under age fourteen.
Why cant they do both?
Re:Nintendo as a children's game company... (Score:2)
And the point is what? (Score:3, Insightful)
It's not like money is an issue for him or Nintendo. He could try and design anything he wanted, but this is what he want to do. No one can force him to design a "mature" game, and even if they could force him, his heart wouldn't be in it, and the game would suck.
a trifle odd (Score:4, Insightful)
He's built a huge, successful company. It's still doing well. He's always advanced the state of the art. His games are well designed. They get critical praise, and most sell in numbers that other companies would kill for. But, he didn't great GTA, so he sucks.
Seamus Blackley: Sour Grapes (Score:5, Insightful)
I'll be honest - the Xbox has some cool ideas to it - I like the hard drive, I like the speed, and the graphics look nice. That Mr. Blackley can be proud of.
On the other hand, can somebody please tell me what game Mr. Blackley has made that was actually fun? Trespasser? (Lord, God, protect us.)
Mr. Blackley is a very good technical person and programmer - when it comes to things like physics, or making complex systems work, he's somebody to talk to.
The problem is he obviously does not know jack shit about what makes a fun game - him spouting off about how Miyamato is maintaining gaming stereotypes is the stupidest thing I've ever seen.
Miyamato has spent almost 20 years making games that are fun - always different, usually surprising and innovative. What, we're going to critique Miyazaki because he makes Spirited Away instead of "Animated Blood, Gore and Guts II"?
Miyamato has the freedom to make whatever games he likes - and I know this sounds fanboyish, but I like them. I have yet to play one that I didn't enjoy, that didn't give me hours of fun and wild-eyed enjoyment, sometimes fast and frantic (Starfox), sometimes thoughtful (Mario Brothers Sunshine), sometimes just beautiful (Pikmin and Zelda: The Wind Waker), and sometimes epic (Zelda: The Ocarina of Time).
I like a good violent romp as much as the next gamer - but when I want to play a game that does more than push my adrenaline button, you always come home to Miyamato. And I honestly thing that Mr. Blackley is a little bit jealous of that - because when the time comes, Blackley will be a footnote of gaming history, and Miyamato will be an entire book in itself.
Of course, I could be wrong.
Quoting the master (Score:3, Insightful)
Ya know, that should be so intuitively obvious, but you look at so many games these days and it seems like this fundamental rule is not followed nearly as often as it should be.
Miyamoto + 'Adult' Themes = Never Gonna Happen (Score:2, Insightful)
What kills me, are all these self proclaimed 'advanced' developers making all these crappy games like GTA. What they don't seem to get is that their games aren't selling because they make good games. Their games are selling because the masses don't/can't/won't look beyond surface imagery. It's the same reason why television in North America is so 'blue collar', why books are a dying breed, why movies may as well just be porn for all the quality that exists in them.
Miyamoto's games shed the simple trappings of 'image' and give you substance. THAT's why they're so successful in the longterm. In 10 years, will anyone even remember GTA except as another flash in the pan violent-and-gritty-to-get-publicity games? Not likely. Will they remember Zelda, Mario, etc? Absolutely.
Console markets are cyclic (just like everything). Eventually the kids playing GTA will grow up and see that there's more to life than appearance (whether it be looking cool, glamorous, dark, etc.) and that it's the fun-factor that makes them play games. Of course, then we'll see a flood of cutesy games that suck...
- Z
gotta love life sometimes (Score:2)
Let the man do his job.... (Score:5, Insightful)
""People often talk about Grand Theft Auto. But I am not sure whether that sort of extreme subject matter is always appropriate. They also talk about the future of games being a kind of virtual reality. But I am not convinced that being more realistic makes better games."
More power to him. GTA3 is all bloody and "realistic", to be sure, but there's a reason why i've always seemed to have a copy of a Mario Bros. game at hand for the better part of 10 years now. I play games to escape reality, not to simulate it.
I'm 22 years old, and I think there's enough blood, guts, and violence in life already...Give me something bright, intricate, and engaging(and yes, "kiddy") with his name on it above the latest 3D shooter junk any day.
God Of Games...? (Score:2)
I thought that as a reader of Slashdot, John Carmack [slashdot.org] was our resident god of games?
Re:God Of Games...? (Score:2)
Nintendo, videogames and ethnicities (Score:2)
kids in any given group were white.
I was watching TV today, and they were showing a packed school auditorium in a black neighborhood. As the camera panned the auditorium, I noticed that literally every single student was black. No whites whatsoever. And that got me to thinking: I wonder if groups of these kids in this school get together and play Nintendo Gamecube, X-Box, Playstation, etc. or any other console game system? Or, are they just culturally not interested in such things?
Is it the price? Is it a cultural thing (white people prefer games, blacks prefer sports)? Is it a DNA thing?
If you can shed any kind of insight into this, I'd appreciate it.
Contradictory (Score:2)
Why? They already stated in the article that the gaming industry is huge. Mario has outsold Star Wars, a feat which ANY industry should be thrilled to attain. I believe the old saying "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" applies quite nicely here...nothing appears to be broken, people are still buying Nintendo games left and right. If they made more games like the old Nintendo 8bit games, I'd go out and buy them. Castlevania for the GBA? Total throwback to castlevania 1-3 on the Nintendo...I bought them and am still playing them both. Zelda, rereleased on the GBA? Absolutely, getting it ASAP.
Why should the paradigm started by Miyamoto change while it still has consumers and they aren't complaining?
--trb
I, for one,... (Score:2)
With that in mind, can anyone name a PC game that can appeal to both young children and adults and (obviously) has no violence, gore, or sex? Didn't think so.
Thank God for Miyamoto (Score:2)
For the first time in my life, I had no idea what a great game for the PC was, for the past 12 months of my life.
That's not to say I haven't been gaming it up. I have all of the newest Nintendo first party titles. Miyamoto is a breath of fresh air. He may not subscribe to the same gameplay as the rest of the designers, but his games which show obvious influence are amazing works, and help me brave this storm of realism, violent and sometimes team-based games inspired by Counterstrike and GTA3.
I do think it's ironic that the major trend in game development is to innovate by moving away from Miyamoto's style. We have a lot of innovation, but it's all heading in the same direction!
Warning: Rant ahead (Score:5, Redundant)
He is not helping things," says Seamus Blackley, the former head of Microsoft's Xbox team who now runs the Capital Entertainment Group...[Blackley] speaks for many game designers...who admire the master's work but are desperate for something new.
"At this point," Blackley continues, "Miyamoto is making games for his fans. Granted, there are millions of them, and it's smart business, but most are kids. He's not opening up adult audiences. He's reinforcing stereotypes about games, not pushing them to a place where they can become something different and truly awesome."
Who the FSCK does Blackley think he is? He's a shoddy co-designer of the Xbox who stepped down to head a non-existent software company who has yet to demonstrate they do anything but blow smoke up each others' asses all day about how great the Xbox is. And he's criticizing Shigeru Miyamoto?
Miyamoto created this industry. After the gaming crash of the late 80's (Atari generation) it was the Famicom from Nintendo that reinvigorated the industry, bringing it back from the brink of extinction. And why was the Famicom (NES outside Japan) so successful? It was successful because of Super Mario Brothers and The Legend of Zelda, both coming from Shiggy. There was no side-scroller before Super Mario Brothers. There was no top-down adventure/RPG before Zelda. He invented the fscking genre and Seamus FSCKING Blackley is doubting him?
Oh, and my favorite part: "He's reinforcing stereotypes." If that stereotype is "A whole helluva lot of fun" then he's right. But what Blackley is referring to is the "video games are for kids" stereotype. This coming from a guy who openly endorced BMX XXX, the most immature piece of donkey shit ever to be published on a video game console, chock full of hot dog vendors talking about "huge weiners" and dogs humping on the sidewalk. Apparently, Blackley thinks video games are for immature 6th graders who can't get a hold of a porno magazine.
Shigeru Miyamoto is a genius. He continues to develop innovative games, even 22 years after Donkey Kong was first programmed. Anybody who doubts me should look at Pikmin and the latest Zelda. To see a third-rate hack insult him infuriates me.
In computing terms, this is like the man responsible for programming Clippy telling Linus Torvalds that he's washed up and is holding back the computer industry with his old software. Complete bullshit, and I'm not afraid to say it (and subsequently get modded down).
I am glad to see the level of maturity here (Score:5, Insightful)
People make fun of me for owning a Gamecube. Why would I play a bunch of goofy little kids games? I say, since when did I need to play video games to feel grown up? I can go down a couple blocks to the bad part of town, or watch the news to see violence and war. I want to get away from that for a little while.
Points out the problem with the "Entertainment" .. (Score:2)
emotionally engrossing, visually stunning, socially influential expressions that capture and inform the spirit of the times.
Hey man, it's just a stinkin game. Just like, hey man, it's just a stinkin movie. Not to say that you can't create art or entertainment that has some social significance, but that's not the point of the content. Media servers two primary purposes, to inform or to entertain. Any broader social relevance is few and far between.
Also, why the focus on "adult content"? As a medium to entertain, shouldn't that be the primary goal of the game, to entertain? If he enjoys creating games that happen to be very good and very successful, why would he need to change? Are people having significantly fewer kids so the kid market is not significant anymore? I would think that it is the complete opposite (well not that people are having more kids necessarily), but as adults view consoles and games as commonplace as the tv, more and more kids will be playing more and more games (though not necessarily on consoles), making that market more important.
I for one am glad that he's telling the "establishment" to bugger off. Funny how in a industry that claims to value independance and differentation, that people are trying to make one of it's most creative members conform.
Miyamoto versus Multiplayer (Score:3, Insightful)
I believe online has more than proven itself. Nintendo's stubornness to deny its gamers online experience will be seen as akin to their mistake in denying developers the CD medium (which they've finally caught up with in the GameCube with the proprietary mini-disc).
Miyamoto continues to break new ground and innovate but he does not address multiplayer issues. The online experience is open for a new generation of game designers. The PC game designers are likely to migrate to the consoles for a more controlled, reliable gaming platform, and the online gaming experience will eventually become the principal area for gaming and innovation.
Miyamoto trailblazed one player gaming. It'll be fun to see who trailblazes the next generation of games.
the usual fallacies... (Score:3, Interesting)
If you start inserting "adult" themes, you are most likely to insert "male fantasy" themes. Not only this alienates the kids, but also most of the potential female players.
But if you stay with the common lowest denominator, a "General" audience, then you are targeting the whole market. Of course this pressuposes that you are not targeting exclusively to kids by inserting repetitive old jokes (barney style), but instead focus on larger storytelling (zelda style) that people of all ages can relate to.
Then if your game is of superior quality, it will prevail. But designing these games are much harder than inserting "male fantasy", and that's why we get things such as BMX-XXX...
Factual mistake in the article. (Score:3)
Pitfall, anyone?
You had to map it to understand the workings of the tunnels well enough to complete the game in the time limit.
In fact, I didn't think SMB needed to be mapped out due to the world structure.
Here's an analogy: (Score:5, Insightful)
This is a common misunderstanding (Score:5, Insightful)
Ages 6-14: "These games are great fun!"
Ages 15-25: "Nintendo games are for kids! I want mature games!" [Where "mature" means either dark science fiction or extreme violence.]
Ages 26+: "These games are great fun!"
It's been amusing to watch how often this occurs. You can see kids hit an age where the reject Mario and flock toward stuff like Resident Evil. Then after a while they work through it all and just play what's fun. Most of the time. Some people never give it up
So what if he wants to make those kind of games? (Score:5, Interesting)
Truly mature people can appreciate the quality of the game weather it has lots of blood and guts or if it doesn't. Adults can appreciate both Mario and Vice City.
The only truly adult games I can think of (besides porn, I mean) are the hard-core simulations, like Gran Tourismo or to a certain extent counterstrike.
Anyway, Nintendo has plenty of money. They can hire more 'sophisticated' artists if they want to.
I say let Miyamoto do what he wants. Don't try to control a genious.
Miyamoto (Score:4, Insightful)
This whole "kiddy" criticism of Nintendo really needs to stop. Miyamoto's games are usually brilliant. He actually realizes that he can make awesome games without hookers and crack dealers. It shows you that he is in it to make awesome games- not just make a quick buck like the folks at companies like Rockstar Games.
It's too bad that people just don't appreciate it. So what? Pikmin and Mario are cute games. They are still loads of fun. Everyone's knocking the new Zelda game because of its cartonish, cell-shaded look. But they won't be dissing it when it totally blows them away.
Player Haters (Score:5, Insightful)
What a moron. You've got the guy, the only guy who has like ten multi-million sellers under his belt, the guy who brought the console back and brought us Zelda with it, a guy who has been through two video game recessions and helped see to it that they gross more than hollywood, and he's not helping games. Ahem. Pardon me, Seamus, but how are XBox sales?
I appreciate the fact that lots of people think that games are for kiddies, and surely Miyamoto's not doing a lot in the way of evangelizing to those poeple. And I'm glad, because every minute he spends doing that (for what, by the way?) he's not making the next Pikmin or Mario or Zelda.
Re:Player Haters (Score:3, Interesting)
As a side note, I never really bought into all the "Microsoft spreads FUD" conspiracy until I went to an XBox "tech talk" in 2000. It was almost entirely Nintendo/Sony bashing FUD. The best part was when they claimed that "Nintendo hadn't yet proved itself in the video game industry," and was basically in a risky position. I can't help but think that maybe Blackley internalized some of this FUD-spreading attitude and that this is how it's manifesting itself.
--Jeremy
A point about Mario Sunshine, et. al.... (Score:4, Interesting)
It has fared a bit better in the US, selling about 810,000 so far. But, overall, it is rather lackluster performance from a rather lackluster (in my opinion) game.
Also, I saw one poster say that Miyamoto produced Metroid Prime. This is only half-correct. Miyamoto was a representitive from Nintendo HQ in overseeing the development of Metroid Prime. Retro Studios came up with the concept, and did all the work. They deserve pretty much all the credit, not Miyamoto.
While one can respect Miyamoto for his achivements, many people in the industry only respect him for his reputation and past work. His recent works has fared rather lackluster in the market, and most critisize him for trying to simplify his games too much. (Such as his goal that all games be playable with only two buttons.)
Miyamoto is not "God", as some would put it, but mearly a very talanted game designer. There are many others that are quite talanted (such as Yuji Naka, Hideo Kojima, or Shinji Mikami for instance) but don't get the recognition due to lack of the "star" status.
I realize this is an unpopular view among the Slashdot crowd, but it's more of the view from inside the gaming industry.
Just some friendly perspective... =)
-Jayde
"Mature" is really code for "juvenile" (Score:5, Insightful)
An easy example is found in movies: "Toy Story 2" is considered a "kiddie movie" because it's a cartoon. Though it readily appeals to children, it addresses the mature themes of friendship, loss, and death.
Likewise, most "mature" action movies are largely juvenile, appealing to people's desire to see stuff get blowed up real good. They don't actually have any mature themes.
I welcome truly mature games, and there are some out there. But let's make the discussion easier by not mislabeling the juvenile games as "mature" and not calling games "kiddie" just because they have bright colors.
Miyamoto worship and blame (Score:5, Insightful)
"Grand Theft Auto is basically a rip-off of Zelda, because Zelda invented massive-world games that let players explore freely, rather than following a linear path. Miyamoto innovates, so he's pushing the form. End of story."
I'm sorry, but Ultima III and the Wizardry series were doing massive-world free-exploration games long before the NES even existed. And even those had predecessors. And from the way this article sounds, you'd think Miyamoto was the first to ever use 3D or a camera in a game.
This seems to be an underlying theme in the article -- that the video game industry is looking to Miyamoto for guidance, blaming him for not guiding them in the right way, and giving him way too much credit for its current state. It's as if Miyamoto is successful due to some magic he alone possesses, rather than because he was able to build on lessons of the past in the right ways.
It seems ridiculous to me.
Boring (Score:3, Insightful)
The day Miyamoto puts an "adult" game out. (Score:3, Interesting)
There really is no need for blood and gore. In fact the "real world" stuff is far more constrained.
Think about it: Mario, Pacman, Tetris, Loderunner. vs Counterstrike, Quake, Max Payne, GTA3 etc. Which has more sameness? Some games can be just distilled to tiny essentials and people will still play them (e.g. snake).
Don't get me wrong. I enjoy 3D FPSes and games like GTA3. But I don't see why Miyamoto should be told how to use his obviously vast imagination and creativity.
There are INFINITE possibilities in the general direction he is heading. So why turn around and head in another direction? Let others explore the infinite possibilities in those directions. Does everyone have to head in the blood and gore directions? Doh.
Miyamoto vs Everyone Else? It'll be a very sad day if the combined imaginations of everyone else isn't good enough to explore blood and gore, and they need Miyamoto there as well.
Something is really wrong with people who keep thinking: "adult themes".
Despite Hollywood's attempts I hope adults still have broader minds than that.
If Miyamoto would grow up... (Score:3, Insightful)
Without Miyamoto Nintendo would be toast already, I guess. And I wouldn't love Nintendo as much as I do without him. Except for the GameCube which I have yet to buy I own every console Nintendo has released in Europe and the charm of Mario and Zelda is... unique. And they managed to make a cult out of it.
One strength of Miyamoto's games is simple gameplay. They are easy to learn and understand but yet get challenging lateron in the game, without getting boring. And this is something very special that is not often found in games, unfortunately. And I guess focussing on children helps him keeping this concept of easy to use/learn games that get challenging (but seldom unfair).
Re:the god of games? (Score:4, Insightful)
His games are entertaining, and playable. A kid can enjoy them all, and adults usally enjoy most of them. Just because you are the opinion that his games suck, or are lame, boring, whatever; is fine. There are other games out there for you. But there should be games for the little guys too, just as there were when we were younger (I was 10 when the NES came out).
I say let Sony and Microsoft ignore the 'kids games' and let the master do what he shall.
Re:the god of games? (Score:2, Interesting)
Miyamoto is okay, I find games like Mario and Zelda to be fun for a few minutes here and there, but I just can't get into them. They're too... shallow. I know shallow is probably a bad word here as the levels are large, with hidden items abound, but the gameplay itself I find too simplistic. I feel limited by the game engine.
Re:the god of games? (Score:4, Funny)
YES! The whole, "Lest get our your CD-ROM and Mouse Drivers to fit in 22K adventure" in Untima 7 was Brilliant. And that was done without FMV, Porn or even Graphics! I sepent two days on that part of the adventure alone, and sometimes, to feel nostalgic, I fire up the GERNERIC kernel of FreeBSD and compile in a sound-card driver.
Fun! Fun! Fun!