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Games Entertainment

Advergames 308

Posted by michael from the america's-army dept.
Anne_Nonymous writes "Here's an interesting story on the use of video games as advertising. They claim 'advergames could be a $1 billion industry by 2005'."
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Advergames More

Advergames

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  • I don't necessarily see this as a bad thing... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by addaboy ( 103441 ) on Thursday January 30, 2003 @03:12PM (#5190690)
    hell it might bring the prices of games down to a more reasonable $20-$30 per game. I like it. I know we're already innundated with advertising everywhere, but this could save you money.

    • Re:I don't necessarily see this as a bad thing... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by alphaseven ( 540122 ) on Thursday January 30, 2003 @03:22PM (#5190779)
      hell it might bring the prices of games down to a more reasonable $20-$30 per game. I like it. I know we're already innundated with advertising everywhere, but this could save you money.

      I doubt that, since increased product placement and additional commercials in movie theatres hasn't brought down ticket prices. Supply and demand determine prices. Considering how well video games are selling this year games will probably stay at the current price point.

      But, the money from product placement will help cover the budget and let companies spend a little more on the game.

    • Well, do you think you pay less when you go to the cinema and there are ads all over your crap action movie ?

    • Re:I don't necessarily see this as a bad thing... (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      I agree that it isn't necessarily a bad thing. However, I don't think that it will bring prices down, since most games are unique such that they aren't really competing with anything. You can't really go buy the Doom III competitor. Look for the extra revenue to go in the author's pockets.

      But in terms of advertising in general (*cough*change topic*cough*)- I think that it would be cool if the television providers (or even a TiVo feature) implmented a commercial rating button on the remote. If I give the commercial a zero, then I shouldn't ever have to watch it again. But if I give the commercial a high score (like slashdot moderation - funny, insightful, etc), then it should receive more air time and possibly a lower cost for the advertiser. This would create a pleasant environment for both the networks (who are currently scared of TiVo-like functionality) and the consumers.

      I would actually pay a couple bucks a month for a station devoted to the funniest commercials, if it were convenient and right there in my living room. You hear me TV-fat cats? Technology is your friend.

      • Commercials (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Angram ( 517383 )
        I would actually pay a couple bucks a month for a station devoted to the funniest commercials, if it were convenient and right there in my living room.

        Are you high? You would pay for ads? True, most ads have nothing to do with their products, so they're more like 30-second special effects or quasi-humorous spotlights, but they're still designed to sell you something. There's a reason so many people are disgusted by the industry practices that incorporate paying for ads (cable TV, movies, internet access). Industries/companies shouldn't get both, it's greed at the clear expense of the consumer. Either they give it to you for free with ads, or you pay and don't have to watch them. A few good internet sites do this, but most don't.

    • Re:I don't necessarily see this as a bad thing... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by nelziq ( 575490 ) on Thursday January 30, 2003 @04:20PM (#5191305)
      Price is really not the problem with games. I consider myself an avid gamers and know many others like me who spent a vast amount of their high school/ college time playing games. If you look at the actual time spent in a one year period, most people will play at most 2-3 games for over 90% of their time. At one point a combination of starcraft, counter strike, everquest and baldurs gate and few others probably accounted for more gaming time than all other games combined. If you average it out, games that are actually purchased (as opposed to borrowed, demoed, or warezed) cost a gamer pennies on the hour. What a real gamer wants is _better_ games, not cheaper games. A bad game isnt even worth the time downloading from a warez site, but a great game is worth alot more than the $50 it costs retail. Thats why great games always come with expansions and the expansions always sell despite the fact that they cost almost as much as the game themselves.

    • Re:I don't necessarily see this as a bad thing... (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Tofuhead ( 40727 ) on Thursday January 30, 2003 @04:20PM (#5191308)

      That's not a very strong endorsement for the idea. Besides being logically flawed, it just sounds to me like, "We're surrounded by crap, but more is always welcome."

      This article is about games developed for the sole purpose of being distributed as ads, not retail games that contain ads in them. I recommend at least skimming through it.

      Note, to add to this off-topic preach: Ads can help subsidize the cost of production, but it doesn't necessarily lower the cost of purchase for the end user. Regardless, would the idea of ads in games, movies, and books fly in the actual retail market for such items? My idealistic confidence in the American buying public wants me to say no, but I know that the answer, as demonstrated in part by your post, is actually "Yes, most likely." And society is worse off for that fact, IMO.

      < tofuhead >

    • My company develops online advergames and we've found that if a client can get a sponsor for the game that it becomes a much more attractive proposition.

      It works out very well for both the client and the sponsor because they both get lots of eyeballs on their brand for less money.

      Granted, the games we develop aren't console games or PC games but it's a similary concept. It reduces the price for the person who pays us to build the game instead of reducing the price for the end user.

  • Hmmm.... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Bendebecker ( 633126 ) on Thursday January 30, 2003 @03:12PM (#5190691) Journal
    But don't the gunmakers already get free advertising from video games?

  • Already done (Score:5, Funny)

    by BESTouff ( 531293 ) on Thursday January 30, 2003 @03:13PM (#5190694)
    My favorite game has already big advertisements all over it. I won't tell you what game it is, just that it's *very* addictive and I have quite a good score (Karma: excellent).

    • Crazy Taxi (Score:3, Informative)

      by MikeFM ( 12491 )
      Crazy Taxi is full of advertisements but it actually helps game play. A Pizza Hut building is easier to spot than Joe's Pizza Place would be. As long as advertising doesn't hurt the game I really don't care if they include it. The same rules as with movies, tv, and magazines really.

      Example of advertising that was to much: Inspector Gadget the movie. The movie was already pretty bad and the advertising just broke the camels back.

  • America's Army (Score:4, Insightful)

    by BillFarber ( 641417 ) on Thursday January 30, 2003 @03:15PM (#5190705)
    The article failed to mention the pretty decent video game put out by (I believe) the US Army call "America's Army".

    • Are you blind ? (Score:3, Informative)

      by BESTouff ( 531293 )
      Look better, it's written from the america's-army dept. just under the title ...

    • Re:America's Army (Score:2, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Anybody who actually downloads and installs a 350MB binary that was written by the U.S. government permanently yields their right to complain about the Total Information Awareness project.

  • Yeah, but (Score:2, Interesting)

    by alaric187 ( 633477 )
    if the games are all horrible, then it actualy hurts the company. Wait until Coke/Pepsi have cd's attached to the can with a horrible game on them. Guess what? It's not free, they raise the price to pay for stupid things like this. Every game like this = higher price on stuff. OTOH, America's Army is something I'd want my tax money spent on every time. ;)

    • Re:Yeah, but (Score:2, Interesting)

      by FuzzyMan45 ( 451645 )
      Wasn't there a mr. pibb or dr. pepper game that came out about 6 years ago that they distributed for free on a floppy. If i remember it was fps-ish with some pretty cool graphics (for the time.)

  • US Army (Score:3, Insightful)

    by jimmyCarter ( 56088 ) on Thursday January 30, 2003 @03:15PM (#5190709) Journal
    Who'd ever of thunk the US Army would be leading the charge into this realm.

    America's Amry [americasarmy.com] is a great recruiting and training tool.

    • Re:US Army (Score:5, Informative)

      by gruhnj ( 195230 ) on Thursday January 30, 2003 @03:49PM (#5191017)
      Americas army is not necesarily a great recruting tool. It is wonderful in terms of public exposure but I still doubt many of those in the Army would have signed up based on the game. For example, the game is all based on missions taken by infantrymen. Even infantry do not go on missions much. Much much more of the Army is spent on mindless detail or KP or barraks maintence. Not to mention lots of crap from your superiors. Also those that are playing this game probably have a higher GT score (110 or higher). Most high GT scores dont want to be 11B. This might help our IT problems, but it wont help much for 11B.

      For our 11B however, we do give out alot of bonus money. $20,000 for the most Hooah airborne ranger special forces guy. Id say thats much more apealing to 11 series rather than a cool game.

      PFC Gruhn
      MOS 74B (Computer Tech)
      U.S. Army, Fort Lewis, 1st Personnel Group
      Serve and Sustain

    • Re:US Army (Score:3, Interesting)

      by _ph1ux_ ( 216706 )
      This is amamzing and very interesting to think about.

      The army provides "games" that are based on the army and its training, philosophy, operations, equipment etc.

      Through indoctrinating a nations technical youth at a young age - and getting them to learn realy tactics (from a thinking perspective) and a familiarity with the mechanics of the army, getting them familiar with the equipment they would use - you prepare (in a twisted sort of way) the youth of your technical nation for service in the army.

      You provide rewards in the game - and you drive the ego and encourage good performance on missions (performance==patriotic killing, what every soldier is for).

      You feed the interest and desire to be in the army and kill.

      Then when a player reaches a certain level of skill, you invite them to play against players of their skill level.

      Through this - you can attempt real contact with them - and encourage their gameplay and interest in the game, and offer a chance to try some of the weapons that are in the game in real life.

      "hey Joe - youve got one great shot there... and are doing a great job in the missions. How would you like to come on down to the base and get a look at the weapons you are using in that game for real. Maybe even get a chance to fire some?"

      Or you then offer some of the same training to them in real life. Maybe you have contests, and the winner gets to go to a special boot camp or some such.

      There are so many weird ways you could use gaming to train people from a young age for modern combat.

      BUT! there is one thing that will never be able to be conveyed - the permanence of Death.

      Imagine a country where their young are brouhgt up playing in virtual war games for their nations army. Over and over and over and over and over they have played the missions - fought, died, fought, died, and succeded at them.

      Imagine the reality check they get into when they are in REAL combat - with the REAL possiblity of Death - and they maybe see a friend fall. Forever.

      Imagine how many minds will be snapping and that point - because their whole life they have played Death as a game.

      Would make a great short story though huh..

  • I can't wait for Warcraft 4 (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 30, 2003 @03:15PM (#5190710)
    As the Coke Human tribe slaughters the evil Pepsi Ogres.

  • We prefer the terrm... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 30, 2003 @03:15PM (#5190711)
    We prefer the term ADVERTAINMENT.

  • Is there anything that WON'T be $1B by 2005? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 30, 2003 @03:15PM (#5190715)
    Seriously, these "market analysts" are such one-trick ponies. I bet if I paid them enough they would say my penis will be a $1 billion industry by 2005.

  • Sims Online? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by SoCalChris ( 573049 ) on Thursday January 30, 2003 @03:15PM (#5190717) Journal
    Didn't the Sims Online do this by including a McDonald's kiosk? By eating at the McDonalds, your happiness goes up, or something like that.

    As I recall, having the advertising in the game certainly didn't make it any cheaper. Having the movies full of advertisements doesn't make them any cheaper for me to see either.

    So while this might not really be a bad thing, I don't see how it could be that good of a thing either.

    • Re:Sims Online? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by micromoog ( 206608 ) on Thursday January 30, 2003 @03:24PM (#5190798)
      So while this might not really be a bad thing...

      It's a bad thing. It causes writers/developers to add things to their work not because they add to the quality or enjoyment, but because they can make extra cash. Such things cause a work to seem dated just a few years later when sponsors go out of business or change their logos.

      • Re:Sims Online? (Score:4, Interesting)

        by qoncept ( 599709 ) on Thursday January 30, 2003 @03:44PM (#5190978) Homepage
        It's a bad thing. It causes writers/developers to add things to their work not because they add to the quality or enjoyment, but because they can make extra cash. Such things cause a work to seem dated just a few years later when sponsors go out of business or change their logos.

        I asked my high school government teacher, who was telling us how important it is that everyone vote, "If I don't take the initiative to vote, I probably haven't followed the election and have no clue what is going on. Do YOU want me voting?"

        Point being, if someone is willing to have advertisements put in their art, it probably isn't of much artistic value to begin with.


        • If I don't take the initiative to vote, I probably haven't followed the election and have no clue what is going on. Do YOU want me voting?"

          Yes. I want you to ask me for advice, and then go vote as I recommend. Because I know better than you what's best for the common good.

        • Re:Sims Online? (Score:3, Insightful)

          by Forgotten ( 225254 )

          Point being, if someone is willing to have advertisements put in their art, it probably isn't of much artistic value to begin with.

          This ignores the reality of how our entertainment economy actually works. What's more likely to happen is that a particular model becomes entrenched, and that becomes the only way to make and market a game. There are a few good TV shows on the air, for instance - their creators may not want TV ads in there (and thus little pre-break mini climaxes every fifteen minutes in the storyline, etc), but it's not like they have a real choice (something like PBS isn't a realistic choice). The same would eventually apply to games if a product-placement finance model took root.

          Granted, one always has to compromise one's ideal creative vision to make it work in the real world - the mitigating factor could be gravity and tensile strength of a sculpture rather than ad-supported television. However, the ad-supported economyis particularly odious because it's a continual drain on those people who want to do real work and actually create things of value in the world. The ad economy is just money chasing around in a circle (this is nowhere clearer than with web banner ads). The ads themselves are by necessity designed to be throwaway, so there's a drain on creativity as well as money. In this respect I do agree with your thesis, since the eventual result of all this is that all media becomes advertising, and thus hopelessly compromised throwaway trash. Patronage of the arts taken to a horrible extreme.

          btw no one seems to have RTFA and noticed that it wasn't really about product placement in games - it was about the creation of one-off games specifically as an advertising medium. It's not actually a new idea - I remember a golf game for the Mac from Buick circa 1990, and there were retailored versions of "Test Drive" before that. But it's just one more way to pointlessly drain money.

        • Point being, if someone is willing to have advertisements put in their art, it probably isn't of much artistic value to begin with.

          As someone who dabbles in this sort of thing let me add my two cents:

          What if it is the only way? Games cost money... or at least time. Lots of time, even for a simple one.

          Sure, I can say I'll develop a game for the fun of it (it IS fun), but strictly fun is not going to pay my mortgage. And without doing that I'm not going to be writing much of anything... it's cold outside!

          On the other hand, if I make the game involve a product or promotional concept, then someone might be willing to pay me to have the fun of writing a game!

          Works all 'round, I have fun writing it, people have fun playing it, I get $$, the client gets increased sales. It's pretty well win win.

          Would I rather be able to just write what I want? Sure, I'd also like a Ferrari, and a Jacuzzi, while we're at it.

          (actually I do write some things for the heck of it from time to time. Help me stress test one I'm writing right now :) Blockwars [66.221.181.109] .
          It's a 1-10 person elimination style multiplayer game)

    • "Didn't the Sims Online do this by including a McDonald's kiosk? By eating at the McDonalds, your happiness goes up, or something like that."

      Yes, but did they allow you to go French socialist and blow the place up? That right there would make the game wortwhile in and of itself.

    • Re:Sims Online? (Score:3, Insightful)

      by leviramsey ( 248057 )

      RTFA

      This isn't about product placement. This is about advertisers creating games to advertise their products and distributing the games for free or at low prices. Jeep for instance has made a game that features taking various Jeeps out to the mountains (because most Jeep buyers will never do it IRL, I guess...)

      This isn't that new... I remember Frito-Lay creating a video game for the Sega Genesis about 10 years ago that was a platformer starring Chester Cheetah with Chee-tos as power-ups. It was actually a good game... the writing was excellent, even if the graphics weren't much beyond your typical Sonic game.

    • Re:Sims Online? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by PepperedApple ( 645980 ) on Thursday January 30, 2003 @03:41PM (#5190955) Homepage
      There was a lot of backlash against the inclusion of McDonalds, including talk of picketing the in-game kiosks [alternet.org]
  • Anyone remember a REALLY lame Doom (I'm pretty sure thats what it was, but it was a while ago) conversion that was included in boxes of Chex some years back?

    If memory serves, it involved shooting Chex at space aliens (?)

    Anyhow, I can't imagine even a substantial majority of such games being beyond that level of inanity.
    • I think Chex Quest came free with a box of Chex cereal and it was advertised as a non-violent video game because you didn't kill the aliens, only zapped them back to their own dimention.

      Zapping seemed to leave a lot of slime puddles however.

  • Willy Wonka (Score:4, Informative)

    by kwoo ( 641864 ) <kjwcode@gma[ ]com ['il.' in gap]> on Thursday January 30, 2003 @03:19PM (#5190750) Homepage Journal

    I once downloaded an advergame for a Willy Wonka candy of some sort. It was a LodeRunner-like game where you had to run around and grab pieces of candy.

    The one drawback to it was that every time you grabbed a piece of candy, a half-screen ad would pop up and the game would halt for a few seconds. I wasn't expecting much (you have to be bored to download such a thing in the first place), but I ditched it after five minutes because the halting was so darn annoying.

    If they want to make an industry of this, they'll have to get it through their heads that people won't put up with that. Especially not kids, with their shorter attention spans.

    • There was this old first person "shooter" from the makers of Mr. Pibb. You had to go around your school, burping on zombies to turn them back into students. You got Mr. Pibb cans to "power up" and, iirc, when you did, it would yell the Mr. Pibb slogan, "PUT IT IN YOUR HEAD!"

      I tried to play it many years after it had come out and the newer, faster computer was too much for it, or something. And I found a bug that put me into no clipping mode, but it was still relatively entertaining for a short while...

  • Free Games (Score:3, Insightful)

    by nuggz ( 69912 ) on Thursday January 30, 2003 @03:20PM (#5190759) Homepage
    Read the article.

    I think it is good, very straightforward for the cars & trucks.

    It demonstrates the product for you, and builds excitement over it. It's an interactive way to learn about the product, and it is something you WANT to do. I don't want to watch TV ads or read billboards. But I do want to drive sports cars.

    • Fantasy Games (Score:3, Funny)

      by ackthpt ( 218170 )
      I think it is good, very straightforward for the cars & trucks.

      Yeah. So it's a minor step from the Driving simulators we used to get for free.

      Perhaps showing what people can expect (or would like to believe really happens) when they drive along in such and such car or truck.

      You drive along and all heads turn to watch you drive along. Ego=+5

      You drive along and no warning lights ever come on advising you to shift up for better gas mileage. Comfort=+5

      You put to a stop and a beautiful model sauntures up and gives you a "do me" look. Lust=+5

      What you never actually do in the game:

      Pull into a gas station and watch the dollars drain from pocket.

      Fail to get it started in a dark parking lot in a bad part of town at 11 PM

      Have take it in for routine maintenance and remember your first car cost less than the hourly charge and any part costs more than your enter first full-time paycheck.

      You find a nut or bolt lying on the carpet and you can't figure out where it came from and if it's important.

  • What a backwards concept... (Score:3, Funny)

    by Whatsthiswhatsthis ( 466781 ) on Thursday January 30, 2003 @03:20PM (#5190761)
    Now, instead of games with advertisements, we are going to get advertisements with games.

    And how does anyone suspect it can be a $1 billion/year industry? I don't see how playing McQuake IV and blasting away the Hamburgler or helpless French fries could be considered fun.

    But hey... How about iQuake: You're Steve Jobs as you battle for aesthetics against Bill Gates, Michael Dell, and their evil minions.

    Of course, the real aesthetic enemy in the axis of ugly is Linux, but I digress (for fear of being modded flamebait).
  • the Jeep Wrangler Rubicon he was test-driving up the slope. He flipped a switch to lock in four-wheel drive, and the sport-utility vehicle clambered to the top.

    I wonder if they included the Wrangler's poor handling in the video game. If they didn't, perhaps someone would get the idea that they could take a sharp turn at 50mph and not go flying off the road. Of course the game probably has a disclaimer that renders it useless in actually evaluating the vehicle's performance.

  • Kraft Foods Inc. Advertainment (Score:3, Funny)

    by Talking Goat ( 645295 ) on Thursday January 30, 2003 @03:21PM (#5190765)
    A great game in store for us now: A fully realized virtual environment in which you sit at a table and eat a bowl of Macaroni 'n' Cheese. You can even wash out the bowl and put it in the dishwasher when you're done!

  • So? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by govtcheez ( 524087 )
    If it's unobtrusive and maybe drops the price of the game some, I don't see a real problem with this. Sports games have been doing this for awhile already - Tony Hawk has ads all over the place, racing games might as well be car commercials (sure, it's cool to see someone driving a Porsche on TV, but when I can do it in surround sound, that's something else), and there're even authentic equipment labels on some other games. It's nothing new.

  • Advertising in games (Score:5, Insightful)

    by phorm ( 591458 ) on Thursday January 30, 2003 @03:24PM (#5190794) Journal
    Although the idea of simulated cars doesn't quite seem right to me (do they similate when your Ford truck goes haywire because the steering box gets loose), it sounds like not such a bad idea... and not really a new one either.

    A lot of games use realistic/lifelike locations, etc. Movies incorporate subliminal advertising, so why not do this to game. Example, Duke Nukum Never finally comes out, due to being funded by advertisers. Throughout the game, virtual billboards have advertisments for Coke or Pepsi (there's already game billboard anyways). This could apply to any shooter game, or a racing game etc.

    Next, we step on to the simulations/etc. The Sims already has a MacDonalds... so it's been done.

    I can't really see a use for this in Strategy games though, unless perhaps Starcraft 2 has a few shelled out Macdonalds buildings (hey, they're going to be everywhere in the universe in the future, you know it).
    It could be a good thing, if slapping a few pepsi-like billboards in doom3 makes it come out under $50, I'd have no problem. Such subliminal messaging often works best, so they're not a need for huge and obvious advertising (you'll just get a craving for a nice cold drink whilst next fragging Cacodemons).

  • If I had a nickel... (Score:5, Funny)

    by revision1_1 ( 69575 ) on Thursday January 30, 2003 @03:24PM (#5190795) Homepage
    ...for every time I head about the next "billion-dollar industry", I'd have a shit-ton of nickels.

  • Welcome to 1982 (Score:5, Insightful)

    by jason99si ( 131298 ) on Thursday January 30, 2003 @03:25PM (#5190800)

    This sounds vaugely familliar to something 20 years ago. Granted, we have shifted to advertisements IN games, instead of advertisements AS games.

    • Remember the Kool-Aid man video game for Atari?
    • Anyone else have that CGA Avoid the Noid game from Domino's Pizza for the IBM PC?
    I'm sure there are other gems out there as well.

    • Here's a couple more. (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Blaede ( 266638 )
      7-UP had their "Cool Spot" game for Genesis(?) back then. It essentially was one big advertisement for 7-UP. There a small sub-industry that caters to building niche games for companies who want their products placed in them, from the online based Flash games to full CD based installed versions.

      Of course you also have my favorite gaming genre, racing simulations From open wheel (F1, CART, IRL) to fendered cars (NASCAR, Trans-Am, etc). the entire foundation of the real sport depends on advertising, from the car textures to the track graphics. The players of these games go to great lengths to make sure the correct advertising in in the game. There is almost no other genre where having advertising as part of the experience is important.

    • Found Avoid the Noid (Score:3, Informative)

      by jason99si ( 131298 )
      I found it! Along with a treasure trove of old DOS games:

      List: http://bhs.broo.k12.wv.us/files/games.htm
      Direct: http://bhs.broo.k12.wv.us/pub/ibm/GAMES/ANOID.ZIP

  • Not so bad (Score:5, Insightful)

    by mccrew ( 62494 ) on Thursday January 30, 2003 @03:26PM (#5190813)
    I think a lot of the reactions here are off the mark. Fellow slashdotters are complaining about buying a game and then having "advertisements forced down our throats."

    Anyone with small children and a computer is probably familiar with the either free or nominally-priced games featuring Hot Wheels, Barbie, Buzz Lightyear, Tonka Trucks, and other well-recognized properties. These are games that are fairly fun for the kids to play, where the product is a major component of the game, and there are sometimes links to the websites of the products.

    The games I have seen in the genre tend to be lightweight, but get the kids excited enough about it to want to go home, install it, and play it.

    I believe that the market size of 1 billion would be primarily bourne by the companies who want to place their products as part of their promotions budgets, and not on the end-consumer.

  • Interactive ads vs Product placement (Score:4, Insightful)

    by doormat ( 63648 ) on Thursday January 30, 2003 @03:29PM (#5190836) Homepage Journal
    This seems to be the key difference to me. If an advertisement uses a interactive means to get me interesting (keep me oocupied?) to learn about their product, then I dont expect to pay anything for it. Why? Because I'll be damned if I have to start paying twice to buy something (once to learn about it, and once to buy it).

    Product placement in videogames has been around for a while, the most recent example I'm framiliar with is Tony Hawk 4. Ads dont dominate and they are just billboards. I dont get extra points for completing a 900 while drinking my mountain dew.

    Then there is the middle ground. This is where game companies whore out themselves to advertisers, a la Sims Online, where eating at McDonalds increases your happiness (which is an absolutely horrible message to send to youth). I hope the gaming community doesnt support these titles.
  • This topic reminds me of Nelly's newish song, "Air Force Ones." (Or something like that.) This song is so ingenious. He is singing about shoes, a commodity in which the majority of his target audience probably has some interest. He probably gets a kickback from some shoe manufacturer. I even saw him in a commercial for Foot Locker or Foot Action, singing his song and doing sporty things. I guess this has been a trend in rap music for a while, going back to RunDMC and Adidas, but I was just so amazed that Nelly is making money off of a song about shoes, using that song to sell shoes, and even does formal commercials with that song for shoe stores. Is it art? Is it advertisement? Does anybody care anymore?

    This post is a little off the topic of "Advergames," but it does speak on the blurring lines of advertising and art.
  • I remember a pretty good game at the time, called "Avoid the Noid" by Domino's Pizza. Damn, that was an addictive fuckin' game. I will forever remember that that's a Domino's game. But, I still won't buy their pizza just because I don't like it, with or without a Noid.

  • Adverts in gaming (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Justarius ( 305126 )
    Actually, this isn't that bad of an idea, though it can lead to abuse, if not careful. For example, most of us don't even notice all the product placement in the movies we watch. In movies, there's coke/pepsi/ adverts, there's clothing adverts, etc., yet we don't really complain too much about nor are our movie ticket prices much higher than they were 3 years ago (unless, of course, it's one of those huge, brand spanking new theatres). If this becomes a trend, we won't notice it as much and we probably won't complain much, *if* 1) prices don't go up and content gets better or 2) prices go down and content stays the same.
  • Some games are just to kill or blame things related to companies, and sometimes this makes the game funnier. XBill is the first example that comes to my mind.

    Also, when I first hear about SpamAssasin I thinked that it was a Quake-like game where you kill spammers.
  • It's funny how in many games the publisher often has to pay for the rights to use a particular brand. For example, automobiles in a racing game. It would be interesting to see the pendulum swing the other way, and have publishers/developers reimbursed for the publicity.

  • Heck it is already being done on TV and Films; even in books, although I don't know if the author really gets a kick back in that case. I' really surprised it has taken this long.

    At least it may be less annoying than pop-up adds!

  • Greeeaaaaattt... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by swasson ( 639367 ) on Thursday January 30, 2003 @03:37PM (#5190916) Homepage
    The Getaway (PS2) is already doing this kind of thing. They got licenses to use brand names for cars (BMW, etc). and there's a billboard type thing in the game that has Samsung, McDonalds, Sanyo, TDX, and Coca Cola plastered all over it.

    Screenshot can be viewed here [ebgames.com]

  • It would be too bad if this became a trend (although I'm sure it will) because of the fake adds that game makers now put into games. Take GTA3, for example, and all the "god that's a crude joke but I can't stop laughing!" fake advertising on the radio loops and on buildings and such...

    I've always found fake advertisements much more amusing than real ones, though maybe that's just me? Perhaps people really would rather have had the walls in early parts of Half-Life decorated with McDonalds and Disney adds rather than the interesting BMRF propaganda.

  • Maybe this could help get Duke 4 out sooner... (Score:3, Funny)

    by grimsweep ( 578372 ) on Thursday January 30, 2003 @03:39PM (#5190939)
    Just change up some of those 'classic' Duke quotes.

    "Heh heh, what...a...mess.... good thing *I* have Mop n' Glow."

    "Go ahead, make my day...with a refreshing Vanilla Coke!"

    "Pizza Hut...Who doesn't want some?"

    "D***... I forgot to use 10-10-220."

    "Nobody steals our Eggos...and lives."

    "D***, I'm lookin good... with LA Looks Hair Care Products!"

    ...On the other hand, the revision of content might just push the game back yet another ten years.

  • I'm sitting here drinking a Starbucks double mocha latte, made with 100% real Darigold whipping cream, thinking how great it would be if there were no commercials. I could enjoy quality entertainment on Fox Network, MTV or the WB on my Sony 54" plasma screen without committing theft of programming with Tivo, or even reaching for the MUTE button. On the other hand, people who work at places like Microsoft (NASDAQ:MSFT) consume large amounts of complimentary Coca-Cola Classic, A&W Root Beer and Earl Grey tea. They might need the commercial time to commit theft of programming and go to the bathroom. It's a dilemma worthy of a MacGiver or a Matlock.

  • I hope.. (Score:3, Funny)

    by grub ( 11606 ) <slashdot@grub.net> on Thursday January 30, 2003 @03:41PM (#5190958) Homepage Journal

    I sure hope RealDoll [realdoll.com] comes up with something like this!

  • Don't forget Kool Aid Man [atariage.com] and Chase the Chuck Wagon [atariage.com]
  • The genesis/snes cart [gamezero.com]? That was an advertisement if I've ever seen one.

  • Max Payne 2 (Score:5, Funny)

    by grimsweep ( 578372 ) on Thursday January 30, 2003 @03:46PM (#5190995)
    The bitter wind plastered the snow to the asphalt, turning blacktop into white death for joyriders. I had a hole in my arm, a half-empty ammo clip, and three thugs waiting within open arms and loaded weapons around the corner. It's at times like these I wondered when this crazy ride started. Good thing I had Advil. *Max holding a box with a wry grin* "Advil: The Pills That Ease the Payne!" (Recommended by 9 out of 10 ex-cops seeking vigilante justice!)
  • I recently started playing the Nitto 1320 challenge, which you can download at http://www.nittoracing.com/

    It is a very addicting game; sort of like a Gran Tourismo 3 for drag racing, with far inferior graphics, but it's in flash....give em a break. This game is free, and does the job of advertising quite well without cluttering the game with ads. Perhaps advergames will take this same track towards their development. Remember in Duke Nukem how they had the posters up on the walls in some rooms, what if you could dynamically replace those with advertisements. This wouldn't take away from gameplay in my opinion, because it's not something you have to pay attention to if don't want to. Companies could pay per day/week/whatever to advertise within games, without interfering with the game itself. Another place they could put ads would be at the end of first person shooter rounds. This could provide money for top notch servers, and they could simply put a little "This server is sponsored by..." somewhere noticable, but not intruding, within the screen. I don't think I would mind these methods, but if companies start putting ads up and making you watch them before you can play again, then you can count on the cracks to start rolling out.
  • i still have this overwhelming desire to take my car out on Laguna Seca :)

    someday...oh yes...someday...

    Aside from having bought my MR2 due to the game, and a larger intrest in auto racing (err..real, racing)...and intrest in the physics, practice, and hobby, and....

  • BANG! (Score:3, Funny)

    by RetroGeek ( 206522 ) on Thursday January 30, 2003 @03:58PM (#5191111) Homepage
    Good.

    Now I can shoot that damn battery bunny.
  • Dear God NOOOOOOOOO!!!!

    Leave the games alone. We do not need advertisments in games.

    Imagine a whole psycology around ADventure games.

    They give you the game for free - they get you to play the game they make so that you are constantly pumped with advertising for the companies - they make the products essential parts of the plot of the game - aside from just the billboards on the virtual walls of city buildings.

    "Joe, you need to go to the Pepsi building, here - take the keys to my new Chrysler Gozumma 2000. It has advanced handling and speed that will get you there much faster."

    This should be fucking OUTLAWED.

  • Americas Army (Score:2, Interesting)

    by lamp77 ( 147098 )
    I'm really surprised America's Army wasn't listed, that's a huge advergame.

  • Worked for me (Score:5, Interesting)

    by KurdtX ( 207196 ) on Thursday January 30, 2003 @04:00PM (#5191129)
    After playing the origninal Gran Turismo, I became fixated on the Mitsubishi Eclipse as a relatively affordable performance car that matched my driving and personal style. Enough so that a year out of college (when I had the $$) I dropped it on one of them (0%/$0 down/$0 for a year helped as well). And anyone who knows me knows I drive it just like the video game - I can't imagine driving anything else in it's price range.

    Right now, I'd say it's the best way (for manufacturers or consumers) to compare head-to-head dozens (hundreds) of cars in different conditions (and not get kicked out by the dealer) - given that the game does not falsely favor one car over others. Hey, if they make it real enough, it might replace illegal street racing (big problem here in San Diego) to an extent. I know among my friends we've settled whose car is better with a few sessions of GT. Needless to say, I am not happy to see that the Eclipse was left out of GT3.


    • Yeah, except the RSX-S kicks your Eclipse's ass. Speaking of the Eclipse's ass, it's a little big for my taste.

    • Re:Worked for me (Score:3, Informative)

      by Dr Caleb ( 121505 )
      It must have cost quite a bit to put your car in that game. For some reason, quite a few cars were changed from GT2 to GT3. The eclipse was left out, but so was the Evolution.

      Notice there is only 1 BMW in GT3. And who races Mercedes CLK's? I watch quite a bit of rally and track racing, and I've never seen a Mercedes on the track. For the past few rally seasons, the Peugeot 206 has owned the rally circuit, but the fastest rally vehicle is a Subaru Impreza WRC prototype. Wonder how much that cost. No Audi's, no Porsche, No Ford Falcons - but there's a Tickford. Tickford?

      Ferrari owns the asphault track, but there isn't 1 Ferrari in the game. And what the hell is a Zonda? Never heard of it before GT3.

      I think GT3, besides being a really fun game, is just 1 big advertisment.

  • advertainment (Score:3, Informative)

    by gauntlet420 ( 646001 ) on Thursday January 30, 2003 @04:05PM (#5191170) Journal
    Look at companies like NStorm, who offer freely downloadable Macromedia games that are 100% advertainment (i.e. Elf Bowling 2 for CDNOW, Elf Bowling 3 for TechTV).

    Instead of having the end user pay for the game, the advertiser ponies up and their name is attached to what can be a fiendishly addictive little pastime. The end user gets something for essentially nothing, and may or may not notice the corporate name attached to the game.

    I would expect that the population will have to be slowly weaned into seeing advertising in 'commercial' games, much like how TV producers and filmmakers have been slowly weaning product placements into their products. Too much at once would promote a backlash.

    Striking a balance between the advertising content and the 'game' content will prove tricky as well. It seems to me that video games that have been 100% advertiser-based have been niche titles at best, and certainly not at the top of anyone's best game list. Games like 7UP Cool Spot, the old Chuck Wagon game for the 2600 VCS, McKids ... all forgettable titles that were relatively uninspiring and far from groundbreaking.
  • patent "one-click-shopping", you can certainly patent this!

    So who's got the patent?

    Nobody?

    Quick, go patent it. In fact, go patent all the things that piss you off. Then sue whoever does those things.

    "Method of raising blood pressure in automobile operators" ... (too many to list)

  • For those reading just the comments (Score:5, Insightful)

    by rnelsonee ( 98732 ) on Thursday January 30, 2003 @04:21PM (#5191314)
    Okay, every comment I've read so far is talking about product placement in videogames. A fun topic, sure, and I like talking about it, but I would those who haven't done so to just skim the short article. It talks about entire games whose primary aim is to sell a product. So, instead of having McD's in The Sims, we're talking about car companies putting out games (often for free) that let you drive around in their new cars. A nifty little article, and I'm wondering if people think this will take off...

  • Avoid the NOID: advergames in 1989 (Score:3, Informative)

    by neurojab ( 15737 ) on Thursday January 30, 2003 @04:28PM (#5191388)
    This is an old concept. Back in the heyday of shareware gaming, there was Avoid the Noid, which was an "advergame" put out by Domino's pizza. Basically you had to scramble through a building with a pizza while the noid tried to foil you by blowing you up in various ways. Man it was cool. I need a pizza.

    Anyway the point: It didn't take off then, so why would it take off now that PC gaming is in some ways past it's prime?

  • Don't Mind (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Apreche ( 239272 ) on Thursday January 30, 2003 @04:44PM (#5191531) Homepage Journal
    I don't mind if they put ads IN the game. If I'm driving on the highway in a new racing game I'd rather see McDonalds bulleting boards that "burger co." It makes the game feel more like I'm on earth and not in a weird video game world.
    It's a different story if the ads effect gameplay negatively. Like if I have to stop, watch an ad, then return to play.
    As for games that ARE advertisements themselves. Like that Ford racing game. If the games are good, then it will be a good ad, and I wont mind. As long as it doesn't have ads that effect gameplay. If coke makes a coke game that sucks, they're just paying for negative advertising against themselves.
    It's the same as movies. If you buy product placement in a shitty movie it sucks for you. Imagine a really crappy movie about a guy who works in a Coke factory. Not going to go well for the soda man.

  • Useless vehicle (Score:4, Insightful)

    by YrWrstNtmr ( 564987 ) on Thursday January 30, 2003 @05:00PM (#5191678)
    from the article:
    For Pert, the demands of caring for two preschoolers often means he only has time to go four-wheeling via computer while his $25,000 Rubicon sits in the driveway.
    ``Sometimes when the girls are asleep I sneak off to play,'' he said.

    This, from an owner in Kansas. Kansas which is flat as a pancake. If he's not going offroading, why shell out $25k for a Jeep [bmja.org] , when any number of regular cars would better suit a family with 2 little kids.

    And they say advertising does not work.

  • But how realistic is the game? (Score:3, Funny)

    by MadHatter75 ( 643962 ) on Thursday January 30, 2003 @05:17PM (#5191828)
    Does it have a cell phone that you can talk on while you are driving on the freeway.

    Hey that might be kind of fun having a networked game with a cell phone in the car that you can talk on it will make you feel just like you are driving down the road in an SUV.

  • My predictions for this: (Score:3, Interesting)

    by BigJimSlade ( 139096 ) on Thursday January 30, 2003 @05:18PM (#5191833) Homepage
    My prediction? If this happens, maybe we'll see another great videogame crash! Can anybody say "Chase the Chuckwagon"? Advertising based games that had no gameplay were one of the factors that lead to the big '84 video game crash.

  • I can see it now... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Maul ( 83993 ) on Thursday January 30, 2003 @05:52PM (#5192069) Journal
    We'll start seeing racing games in which the Ford Focus can outrace a Ferrari, fighting games in which the characters that smoke are highly overpowered, and DDR-clones in which you always get better scores when you dance to RIAA-sanctioned music as opposed to that "indy" crap.

    Yay.

  • Remember Snowcraft? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by artemis67 ( 93453 ) on Thursday January 30, 2003 @05:59PM (#5192124)
    For those that don't know, Snowcraft was a really cute little Shockwave game that came out around 1997, I believe. The object was, simply, to win a snowball fight against the opposing team. The game was distributed as a standalone app, and was emailed EVERYWHERE. When you lost the game, a message came up that said, "Merry Christmas from..." (sorry, forgot the name of the web design company that produced it), along with an email link.

    That design firm got swallowed up by a bigger web design firm less than a year later. I've tried to guess at what they spent to produce the game ($15k, maybe?), and this was right at the time that Shockwave and Flash were becoming hot properties, but the talent was in short supply. No doubt they recovered their investment many times over, especially when they principals sold out the business.

    Online advertainment has been around for a long time, it's funny that it's just now getting recognition.

  • Level up? (Score:3, Funny)

    by cprincipe ( 100684 ) on Thursday January 30, 2003 @09:00PM (#5193247) Homepage

    Please type the UPC code from a bottle of Michelob Ultra to proceed to the next level....

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