Female Characters - Empowering or Endangering Equity? 110
deacon_jay writes "There's an interesting article from the NY Times (registration required) about what the depiction of female protagonists in video games is doing for female empowerment. Obviously, there are opposing views put forward, such as: 'Women as hypersexualized killers distracts attention from their unequal status' or 'I do not think playing these games encourages women to be victims'. I'm tending to the latter argument, but the article raises some interesting questions." For example, Lara Croft - icon for the power of the female, or created for gamers to goggle at? This is even an academically discussed question.
Are you kidding me? (Score:4, Interesting)
"Lara Croft - icon for the power of the female, or created for gamers to goggle at?"
Sit down with every version of Tomb Raider ever made. Play them in order from oldest to most recent, and observer the increase in breast size from version to version.
Then, ask that question again with a straight face.
Re:Are you kidding me? (Score:4, Informative)
Sex sells (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Sex sells (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't mind cheesecake as a niche. I just think that the magazine publishing industry would be pretty pathetic if 70% of all magazines were Maxim and GQ. And there's all sorts of games where cheesecake is completely unnecessary, where the gameplay itself shouldn't have anything to do with pandering to someone's sexual frustrations - but the still put in the "fan service" and sex-doll crap just as a ploy for attention.
Interestingly, I'm at E3 now, and the trope of note is the "death of the core gamer:" the consensus is that the market will have to diversify to thrive. The old traditional market has been called the "GWD" market - "guys without dates" - and the feeling is that that market is going to pay a constant amount of money per year on video games without much effort from the industry.
GWD? (Score:2)
Sorry, what is "GWD"? Games of Wide Destruction?
I'm more worried about the players (Score:3, Insightful)
Come on guys, you're getting off on a corporate logo. Go for something with a soul, something real, not a cartoon designed by dweebs in the marketing and design departments. Are you really that easy to control?
Try thinking for yourself more often.
Re:I'm more worried about the players (Score:3, Funny)
Wow... Just... Wow. Do they still pull themselves up stacks of crates or try to jump onto moving platforms in lava flows?
Re:I'm more worried about the players (Score:5, Insightful)
It certainly isn't a new phenomenon for boys and men to be fascinated by beautiful women, particularly famous ones. I had a poster of Vanna White (cut-off shorts, work shirt and hay - YAY!) on my wall as a youth and other generations of men have fantasized about Farrah Fawcett, Sophia Loren, Jayne Mansfield and Ingrid Bergman. Are today's boys in more "trouble" simply because Carmen Elektra's bikini is more skimpy than Farrah's was? And what's the difference if that idealized woman is represented through art, either analog or digital? Any way you slice it, real or not, these women aren't average or they wouldn't be so visually fascinating.
Unless these males you're talking about are completely isolated from the rest of society (like NEVER leaving the house/basement), they know exactly what real women look like. I've never met any guy that thinks every woman looks, or should look, like a "perfect 10" - I'm sure they're out there but in my experience they're the minority. Frankly, I've found that concept to be mostly created in the heads of insecure women.
Actually (Score:3, Insightful)
I am not judging this or anything, but its just the reality of the society we live in.
Re:Actually (Score:4, Insightful)
I think the expectations stay just as high, but the emphasis is on different things. As we grow older we learn that all too often the most beautiful are also the most petty, the most spiteful, and in the saddest situations, the most stupid. In other words, we learn that there are things more important than looks. I would hardly call that a lowering of expectations.
Re:Actually (Score:2)
Yet, given the opportunity, they will still screw anything that moves.
Re:Actually (Score:2)
Re:I'm more worried about the players (Score:2)
Well done. You've just described a significant proportion of the gamer (and
they know exactly what real women look like
They do, more or less, or they would spend a lot of time accidentally propositioning men when they leave their houses. Good for the guys, not so good for the women...
Re:I'm more worried about the players (Score:4, Insightful)
You're making the same sort of leap that irritates me with people who hate video games that contain violence -- the assumption that people won't be able to distinguish between reality and the video game.
Come on guys, you're getting off on a corporate logo. Go for something with a soul, something real, not a cartoon designed by dweebs in the marketing and design departments. Are you really that easy to control?
Try thinking for yourself more often.
And you're simply parroting propaganda put out by a couple of feminist groups. Go for what you find attractive, not for the social image that you're being molded to by a bunch of activists. Are you really that easy to control?
Try thinking for yourself more often.
Seriously, images of perfect beauty have always been around. Mother goddess figures, Greek statues, paintings in the Rennaissance, mens magazines. Part of life is recognizing and dealing with life's imperfections.
Re:I'm more worried about the players (Score:2)
What I've been thinking for some time is that the people worried about violent video games are themselves the ones who can't separate fantasy from reality, not the ones actually playing the games. Combined with an "everyone should be just like me" mentality, perhaps their attitudes aren't too surprising.
Re:I'm more worried about the players (Score:1)
Empowering (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Empowering (Score:2)
Not when they're living in a patriarchy.
Re:Empowering (Score:2)
The US is not a patriarchy.
Re:Empowering (Score:2)
What does that have to do with anything? I'm honestly confused.
The US is not a patriarchy.
Did i say the US was a patriachy? Did i say any country/society in particular was a patriarchy? Perhaps the fact that you assumed i was speaking of the US reveals something in and of itself? ;)
Re:Empowering (Score:2)
Holding the position of power in a family is one of the two elements of a patriarchy.
Did i say the US was a patriachy? Did i say any country/society in particular was a patriarchy? Perhaps the fact that you assumed i was speaking of the US reveals something in and of itself?
The fact that most Slashdotters are from the US, and when someone makes a comment about society, the default assumption is US society, the same as "lira" having tra
Re:Empowering (Score:2)
What does this have to do with telemarketers asking for the head of the house?
The fact that most Slashdotters are from the US, and when someone makes a comment about society, the default assumption is US society
I was actually speaking of the world in general, although the US is certainly one of the countries of the kind i was speaking of. Almost all first world nations are de facto patriachal although not de jure. If
Re:Empowering (Score:2)
patriarchy
n : a form of social organization in which a male is the family
head and title is traced through the male line [syn: {patriarchate}
Because we no longer generally use the concept of "head of the household" in the United States.
Re:Empowering (Score:2)
You don't pay income tax, do you?
Re:Empowering (Score:1)
Re:Empowering (Score:2)
Re:Empowering (Score:1)
I wrote... (Score:3, Insightful)
It seems inane to be arguing equal gender representation in a video game, but such games are becoming an increasingly popular form of entertainment and can be immensely compelling. Accordingly, we should examine how female voices are portrayed. In the original Homeworld, there were 28 vessels, only one being voiced by a female. While Cataclysm has improved that ratio some, the voice acting has become more personalized. Homeworld's voice acting was very flat and devoid of individuality. However, in Cataclysm, there is definitely a characterization associated with different ship types. The Recon Probe voice sounds to be an alto in her 30's. Her voice is relatively smooth and often has an ironic tone. The Hive Frigate appears to be a soprano in her 20's, as her voice is high pitched and often seems strained. Fleet Command is personified by a female tenor in her 60's, and sounds like a self-assured chain-smoker.
The implications of these positions are extremely important to note, for they are exceedingly subtle. The Recon Probe for all intents and purposes is an expendable ship, cheap to build and for the most part superfluous. However, the voice acting is very cocky and aggressive. Responses to the attack command are "Just say the word," and "I'll take 'em out." As a result, this particular female voice is derided and mocked for having male attitudes but being unable to act them out.
The Hive Frigate is essentially designed to be bait for enemy affronts at the beginning of a battle, and then to fall back and act as a support vessel. This soprano voice is nervous and edgy, perhaps giving the impression of a young woman who is in over her head and is about to snap and start screaming. Contrary to the impression given by the Recon Probe, the Hive Frigate is a weak powerless character, once again forming negative stereotypes.
Finally, Fleet Command is the tactics officer on the Mothership, giving suggested attack strategies and fleet directives. The voice is relatively deep for a woman, but is very self-assured and confident. It's a poignant aspect that the only secure female voice in the game is an 'old' one, suggesting that women only become robust and poised in old age.
This is not to say that all the male voices in the game are cocky and confident. There are units that sound like teenagers going through puberty and even mentally insane men. However, the ratio of male voices to female voices is unbalanced, and the attributed personalities contribute to stereotypes.
Few large-scale studies have been done on the number of female video game players to male players, but the proportion is heavily weighted on the male end, and probably will continue to be for a while. Therefore, it's important that all aspects of human representation in games are carefully considered. The voice acting in Homeworld and Cataclysm is one of the last things to be noticed after the gameplay, strategy, graphics, music, and sound effects, yet its subconscious effect can be very pronounced. This is most revealing when we consider that of the three (out of sixteen) female voices in the game, only one is assertive, and she sounds like Grandma.
What do you folks think? Any ladies care to chime in?
Re:I wrote... (Score:2)
Women have also been considered more timid than men on average too, but that is probably a bit of a cultural influence.
It is also true that throughout history, the art of war has been almost entirely the domain of men. It shouldn't be considered strange, in my opinion, that such a field is dominated by males in games. Men are naturally more interested in war (for better or for worse). I don't think adding balanced female presence will draw
Re:I wrote... (Score:3, Interesting)
There are some games that do women credit. Oddly enough, FPS games are pretty good at it. For example, Quake II has a male and female character model, and the female is ver
Re:I wrote... (Score:1)
This plays into the traditional male role of hunter/gatherer. Men (on average) are physically stronger than women, and are therefore expected to perform physically demanding tasks like galactic domination and waging war on the Axis of Evil.
If you look at how the US army is distribute
Re:I wrote... (Score:1)
You spoke like a true post-modernist. First you pick what you want to say, then you find a source, then you procede to find what you want. Big woop, political correctness, sans science. Please notice your use of semi-qualifiers, such as "seems to be", and "sounds like"... Not quite the grounds for any form of objective proof, no?
Also, observe the Freudian conotations, "this particular female voice is derided and mocked for having male attitudes but being unabl
Equity is not equality. (Score:2)
I think this article is just riding the wave of criticizing/blaming video games for social problems, grasping at straws for attent
Re:Equity is not equality. (Score:1)
Perhaps you mean grow into raging political correctness? Grow into giving up all the things you know are right because they don't vibe with the herd? If you've ever wondered why social change and social justice are slow to come, here is why.
At least I had the guts to say it non-anonymously, and actually make a point. If you make another ad hominem attack or don't give a meaningful reply, we'll all know who needs to grow up.
Why? Women *do* take that role. (Score:3, Insightful)
You know, he put it a bit harshly, but women *do* tend to take a role of passive attractor in our society. You don't see guys spending a significant chunk of their morning sitting in front of a mirror applying makeup.
Furthermore, that role is one that cannot be reasonably blamed on a lack of action on the part of males. This i
Re:Why? Women *do* take that role. (Score:2, Insightful)
However, there is a difference between wanting to be admired and wanting to be sexualized. Women want to be admired, complimented, and, sometimes, to feel sexy. Most do not want
Re:Why? Women *do* take that role. (Score:2)
Re:Equity is not equality. (Score:2)
Now _that_ isn't sexist at all.
Apparently the planet is earth. Women spend pleanty of time ogling guys, the only real difference i know of is that the girls have better standards for which guys they ogle at. (If i were a girl of the same general attractiveness as my male self, i could put on some sexy clothes and get hit on by
Re:Equity is not equality. (Score:2)
It's like an alcoholic not admitting he has a problem. Don't deny human nature. Next you'll be telling us that if society didn't perpetuate the myth that women carry babies, we'd be seeing more pregnant men. (and of course some of you will want to say 'but but but that different we're stil
Re:Equity is not equality. (Score:2)
These sterotypes got started and were perpetuated because for a large chunk of history most human societies have been patriachal.
The patriarchal system most likely got it's start when humans were forming proto-tribal units. At that point in time there was a big surplus of males, becaus
Dammit (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Dammit (Score:1)
Re:Dammit (Score:2, Insightful)
I hope you're being sarcastic, but this is still bullshit. As a feminist (male, before you ask) I find this offensive. I hope you're not a racist too, but put the joke in racial terms and I think you'll see the problem.
I know it's "just a joke" but that kind of thing send a subtle message that somehow for women to ask for equal status is silly.
More on topic, I do think the article goes overboard. The author seems to say that having women in fighting games me
Re:Dammit (Score:1)
Re:Dammit (Score:2)
I find it interesting (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:I find it interesting (Score:2)
Substitute guys where you put girls. Guys like seeing semi-naked guys beat the crap out of each other. What do you have? Mainstream boxing.
Re:I find it interesting (Score:2)
Ok, take Dead or Alive. Now, compare it to this [somethingawful.com].
You Can't Have It Both Ways (Score:5, Insightful)
On the one hand, it will be argued that there are not enough female protagonists in video games. So video game companies step up and say, "you're right, we'll put some more female characters out there." Then, the complaint is always made [by someone] that the women are just there to be eye candy and that guys love ogling them. It always makes me wonder if these people want female video game characters to be ugly or if they want them to be dressed in ugly clothes. This despite the fact that women often spend thousands per year trying to look as pretty as they possibly can. I'm a fat, ugly, pasty guy but I'm sure not out there agitating for Kilik of Soul Calibur to gain 50 virtual pounds, nor would I ask that Mario get some warts.
Another drum they like to pound is that women in fighting games send the signal that it's okay to beat up women. This one makes me think that those folks have no problem with assault when a male is the victim. Fighting games, in particular, are completely neutral in terms of gender. It's very rare that a female character is so under-powered that she's going to be beaten by any of the male characters. I can recall several successful sessions where I took on all comers as Sonja in Mortal Kombat or Chun-Li in Street Fighter (I like kicking, what can I say?).
Finally, everybody and their grandmother keeps bringing up the killing of women in Grand Theft Auto. My first response is always that if you follow the storyline missions in GTA3 and Vice City you'll find that you won't have to beat down or kill many women, especially when compared to the number of men you inevitably whack. The natural response of these whiners is "That game encourages you to beat up hookers and other women for money." I then ask what percentage of prostitutes are male, followed by pointing out that it's entirely up to the player whether or not they want to beat up female OR male civilians to get cash. If someone is a mass murderer or huge bully in the GTA games, it's because they wanted to be and not because the game encouraged them in any way.
What all this comes down to is that there are more powerful female characters in games than ever before. Whatever they look like, the message that video game women can be just as capable as video game men is being sent by the video game industry every day. As far as I'm concerned, any feminist who thinks that's a bad thing needs to take a huge pill...I'd recommend estrogen but that might be sexist...
It's simple. (Score:3, Insightful)
You're not being superficial enough to get this, to see what's most obvious.
What "they" want is simply to be the acknowledged--and, "they" hope, one day, legal--arbiters of righteousness.
There's no position to decipher. They're Puritans, prohibitionists, frustrated Stalins.
What most people most want is to dominate other people. When you don't understand what people are doing, that's probably what they're doing.
Typical sexist crap. (Score:4, Funny)
Society puts far more pressure in women to toe the true line of how a woman should look. Any visit to a magazine shop should convince anybody that women are portrayed mainly as sex objects whose only tasks in life are to keep an eye on their weight and how to find their blue prince.
Men do not have to suffer such humiliation.
Regarding games the problem is one of violence and generalized lack of imagination from the part fo the game makers. It seems like they are addicted to violence in the first place, to make it a possible choice to beat and kill women and be rewarded for it, in spite of the amount of domestic violence everywhere, is frankly crass and irresponsible.
Since its beginnings action games are depended heavely on violence to sell, obviously the talent of most game companies to figure out new ways to entertain people while at the same time promoting positive values (or at least stop promoting negative ones) is sorely lacking.
If porno gaming is your thing, fine, but many females are uncomfortable knowing that strong industries like the gaming one can't come with better ideas but the stereotyping of women as sexual animals.
Re:Typical sexist crap. (Score:1, Troll)
Men do not have to suffer such humiliation.
And men are portrayed as insensitive and expected to be breadwinners. Big deal. If you think that pop culture media is humiliating to people, I have to disagree. Pop culture shows computer programmers to be antisocial geeks. So?
If porno gaming is your thing, fine, b
What's the difference ? (Score:1)
By the sound of your response, it looks to me like you are saying yes, it is okay for women to beat and kill men, it is okay to apply double standards when it comes to men.
What you and the games industry should be saying is that it is not okay for anyone to beat and kil
Re:Typical sexist crap. (Score:3, Insightful)
As an individual, I can categorically deny that I've ever pressured any woman to wear makeup, change her clothes, lose weight or anything else. I'm not aware that any of my friends have, either.
As far as media go, video games would be far down on the
Re:Typical sexist crap. (Score:1)
Re:Typical sexist crap. (Score:2, Funny)
Society puts far more pressure in women to toe the true line of how a woman should look.
The other poster put it best: women are half of that society, they should take half of the responsibility for that.
Any visit to a magazine shop should convince anybody that women are portrayed mainly as sex objects whose only tasks in life are to keep an eye on their weight and how to find their blue prince.
I don't see that at all. And why, if what you say is true, is this inherently a bias against women in
Re:Typical sexist crap. (Score:4, Funny)
You're right. To be responsible they should only reward you for beating and killing men. White men. White heterosexual men. White heterosexual middle-class men. Because we all know that they're the source of all the problems in this world!
Re:Typical sexist crap. (Score:1)
Men do not have to suffer such humiliation.
Sure we do. Look at all the hair replacement and growth commercials. As well, there are magazines that have guys on their covers, so it's not only good looking women that are on ma
Typical sexist retort. (Score:4, Insightful)
Since the introduction of Chun-Li in Street Fighter 2 (a reasonably endowed [columbia.edu] female, at least compared to some of [columbia.edu] the other [columbia.edu] characters [columbia.edu] in the game) fighting females have been getting more and more popular. Before then, women were largely reduced to the role of helpless princess to be rescued, medic, or very occasionally villaness (whose attempt to actualize was a defining factor in her evilness). Now they can shape their environment, go toe-to-toe with the 900 lb walking dumptrucks [unrealchampionship.com] that pass as men in videogames and can do anything that men can do. With the general lack of women as leading action-hero roles (except in terrible game-to-movie conversions) strangely a large cultural spearhead of this has come from, well, videogames.
Does violence happen against protagonist women in videogames? Yes, but the depiction of violence against women has so often been against helpless women that the two separate concepts have become intrinsically linked. It is almost assumed in this culture that *any* violence against women will expose fragility, which is not the case (come out to boston for a women's football match sometime). The problem is the depiction of women being hit by the enemy and falling down crying, not the depiction of women being hit by the enemy and who in turn beats him to a bloody pulp. All protaganists in videogames hit back, and eventually win. That's empowering.
What's disempowering and what you touched upon was the hypersexualization of the female figure in videogames, which is a real problem. Videogaming is probably not the arena to fight this larger societal problem, however. From a purely pragmatic standpoint, the characters need gross anatomical differences with wildly differing dress styles to be able to tell the two apart. And with men and women's violation of the age old long-hair-is-woman, short-hair-is-man code, there is very little to be able to distinguish between 32 pixel by 32 pixel male and female characters besides huge hips and big breasts vs giant shoulders and stunted legs. That part probably can't be stopped any time soon. The role variation needs to be upped, as does the number of female characters whose sexuality or sex life just doesn't come up, but arguing against oversized breasts in a medium whose plumber posterboy features a nose the size of his head is like shouting at the wind.
Either way, with female empowerment but continued female sexualization we've taken one step forward and no steps back. That doesn't mean that there is no ground left to cover. That means demonizing a medium which has overall improved the perception of women in our culture is shooting your friends.
If you want a target, start with those aformentioned magazine shops, preferably "YM" and "Cosmo Girl."
(OT) small historical correction (Score:2)
Both wore long hair, and men had beards and mustaches, up until around WWI, 1914-1918, and I believe it was because gas masks don't work well with facial hair. I am not sure why long hair got the shove at the same time, but that's the way it looks...
Re:You Can't Have It Both Ways (Score:3, Funny)
Okay, that's it! You're going on my foe list! Now, how many other
The altermative (Score:5, Informative)
-Sean
Re:I wrote... (Score:2)
You could not have exemplified better... (Score:2)
We have not achieved equality (Score:1, Insightful)
We have equality when a female schlemiel gets promoted to her level of incompetence just as fast as a male schlemiel.
(A slight variant of someone else's quote [brainyquote.com].)
I'm not sure that the female protagonists in many current movies [sinbad-themovie.com] that make fun of the boys because they can do everything better than them *and* have ripped abs and flawless skin, are exactly a good thing.
Isn't that a bit of an unrealistic standard?
Bah... (Score:3, Funny)
As long as they've got big tits I don't see the harm in it.
Same problem (Score:2)
Why do people want that? (Score:3, Interesting)
The Longest Journey (Score:5, Insightful)
- is well acted.
- is realistic (or at least naturalistic).
- is not a mere sex object.
- has a journey of discovery that draws strength from a female perspective (I'm a male, so I could be wrong; but the writing and design are good enough that I think I'm not).
- isn't pandering to men.
- isn't pandering to women, either.
- makes you care about her and her plight.
- has LOTS of dialogue, but also good graphics and interesting story, so I wasn't bored.
- couldn't be replaced with a male character without greatly changing the story (ie. isn't a gratuitous female lead character).
- depicts, as part of the game, the complexities of male/female human interactions.
If ANYONE wants to talk about the potential that women have as "lead characters" in computer games, The Longest Journey should be held as the example of how it can be done without fear of alienating all men, and without exploiting male sexual arousal. Probably no coincidence that is was a game designed in Scandinavia. I highly recommend it.
What struck me most, was that this was a BETTER, more interesting, female lead character than ANY recent mainstream Hollywood movie with a lead female character (which are largely either gratuitous, or pandering to the perceived needs of women, or the perceived needs of men). April Ryan is a better role model for women and men, than most "role models" that are normally foisted on us all by the mass-market media.
Lara croft is an unrealistic depiction of womanhood. But male video game action characters are largely unrealistic portayals of men, too. Getting beyond the sexual elements, Lara does succeed (I think) as a character because her womanhood is not gratuitous (she has big juggs; so do some athletic female friends of mine. It isn't like they turn into missles to kill the bad guys), and her scope is limited to an action role (ie. she isn't portraying a societal 'role model', she is portraying a heroine, which are almost always romanticized ideals.)
I'm glad to see there is at least a trend towards women in computer/video games that is less purely sexual. I think, in some large part, it is because the technology is getting better at allowing "substantive" visual depictions (ie. facial expressions and interactions; see Half Life 2 trailer) that were harder to do previously. Whereas hot-looking bodies are relatively easy to do. I hope gamers are progressing towards more substantive portayals of BOTH men and women (at least as an option).
Re:The Longest Journey (Score:2)
When a larger chunk of the game-playing demographic is not teenage males, there will be more products aimed at other niches.
Re:The Longest Journey (Score:1)
Have you considered *why* the game-playing demographic is what it is? Because that's what the Tomb Raiders of this world are aiming for. They aim there because such games sell well, and that's because there's a large section of the demographic interested in adolescent voyeurism.
We need games more like the Longest Journey to break that vicious circle, not to wait for the demographic to magically change before targetting the
Re:The Longest Journey (Score:1)
What does she want? (Score:2)
Are they upset that the females are frequently scantily clad and/or of unlikely anatomical proportions? That doesn't really seem to be the main issue addressed.
The complaint seems to be th
The Male Stereotype (Score:5, Insightful)
Most importantly, most characters in video games are male. Of all those male characters, almost all have an impossibly ripped body of unnatural proportions. The torso of the video game male is usually almost double the size of what is possible. And a large majority of the time, the males are scantily clad.
Please note that the depiction of the male is as outlandish as the depiction of the female. This depiction is exploitive of the video game character. Since they're not real, it doesn't matter. It's all about fantasy. If a fantasy isn't intersting or intriguing, nobody wants to see it, let alone play with it.
Re:The Male Stereotype (Score:1, Funny)
Please note that the depiction of the male is as outlandish as the depiction of the female. This depiction is exploitive of the video game character. Since they're not real, it doesn't matter. It's all about fantasy. If a fantasy isn't intersting or intriguing, nobody wants to see it, let alone play with it.
Exactly. It would be like watching a porno flick where the people in it were ugly, lasted a couple of minutes, and then rolled over and fell asleep.
Is it just me, or... (Score:2)
Re:Is it just me, or... (Score:1)
It's up to women. (Score:2)
If that's because women don't like the existing computer games, hey nobody is stopping them from making games for themselves. PC hardware is cheap. Plenty of tools around. And there's Google and the Internet.
Women take 50% of the blame in
"empowering/endangering equity". You want the power, you sign up for the blame too.
Y'know there are a LOT more important things to focus on for gender equity than complaining about sexism in vide
Yeah yeah... Anyone see the latest Lifetime movie? (Score:2, Funny)
How about all those movies on the Lifetime Channel where the women kill their husbands? What kind of messages are those sending?
Obviously I think it depends... (Score:1)
On the other hand, the Id Software protagonist from Wolfenstein 3D through Quake II all seem to be hyper-male types while Gordon Freeman is just a scientist in an extrodinary situation.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, I'm sure this is a great topic to spur discussion but my opinion is that we are painting it with too wide
Thoughts from a game developer (Score:2, Informative)
Interesting, reminds me of when I tried... (Score:1)
The real problem... (Score:2, Insightful)
But, seriously...where is this going to end. People need to realize that there are differences between men and women. Does this mean that a woman is less able than a man? In some respects, yes...but a man is less able than a woman i
Shut up, whiners (Score:1)
Re:Well... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Well... (Score:3, Interesting)
Who are you to say what she needs? What if she came here and read your post. How do you think she would feel? Is it right to say that about her? Is her role in life to provide you with sexual pleasure?
I think this is plain rude and insulting to her. To any woman, perhaps, who is made to feel that her worth is related to her body.
Though I shouldn't be surprised, given what I've recently seen [ninemsn.com.au] about the American porn
Re:Well... (Score:2)
a. An actor must look good
b. A female actor does not look good if she doesn't have "appealing size for Tuxinatorium" breasts.
conclusion. Trinity does not have big breasts so therefore she needs them.
I stand by my original post. She can and does look impressive without sexually exciting you. I disagree with both assumption a. and b. An actor can do an excellent job without looking good, and without having a breast size that you find just right.
Re:Well... (Score:1)
a. An actor must look good
b. A female actor does not look good if she doesn't have "appealing size for Tuxinatorium" breasts.
Then you, my friend, have not been paying attention.
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Yeah, my boss uses the "lure of money" to get me to do things I don't want to do, too -- like getting up in the morning and putting up with chickenshit and coding in java.
Seems that for the girls of porn, keeping their sex lives private isn't worth as much to them as easy money. They could always get a job at McDonald's. Their choice. Not mine, not yours.
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In general, I don't really see the problem with porn actresses. As a matter of fact, I find military tours of service much more upsetting, since it is *illegal* to leave if you fin
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