More On Online Game Cheating 51
Build6 writes "The UK Guardian newspaper has an article on online cheating in games, with some fairly broad-ranging observations. These include ways to cheat, players who feel cheated by it, and an interview with someone who actually codes game cheats, in this case for Counter-Strike. He secretly gathers information from his users and claims: 'Did you know most cheaters come from France?'" We covered game cheating a few weeks ago, but this article focuses more on why coders would want to create cheating devices.
Counteracting cheating (Score:5, Insightful)
- Only inform each client of players visible to that client--prevents wall-hacks.
- Track the accuracy of each weapon. Not the shots, but the aiming of the weapon. There should be an expected variance that is a function of the relative velocity of two players. If the relative velocity is high, and the aim remains perfect, it's probably a cheater.
- Create a global anti-cheat list, which will be similar to the open-relay black-lists. If the game is purchased, and each copy comes with a unique ID, then a person who is caught cheating can be added to the blacklist. An admin should record a demo of the cheating, which can be reviewed and appealed.
- For a free game like America's Army, use the MAC address. Can still be spoofed, but not too easy.
There are other things that can be done, but are less desireable:- Prevent perfect accuracy. Make it so that a certian percentage of shots always miss, no matter how good the player is.
- Give each weapon "kick". If aim is perfect even with a kicking weapon, it's definitely a cheater.
- Each weapon reduces damage the more accurate you are with it.
These last three are less desireable. But simply doing a CRC for files on the system that enable cheating is not a good strategy.Re:Counteracting cheating (Score:5, Interesting)
I agree the CRC'ing of the game, and the typical PunkBunster systems are inadequate. Giving the client only the information that is immediately needed and visible to said client is costly, and prevents lag optimizations from working.
Banning cheaters is good, if you have some sort of unique ID. This is one of the usefull things PunkBuster does do. Though for freeware games like Enemey Territory, you can regenerate a new PB GUID by simply deleting the fake cd key file.
Honestly, I know i'll get a lot of flack on
I'd buy a Palladium motherboard for that capability alone.
-malakai
Re:Counteracting cheating (Score:2, Interesting)
And global banning is a nice idea, but whatever method you use will get
Re:Counteracting cheating (Score:1)
Your second point (aim variance) would be nigh on impossible to make work - I've seen some astonishing play at the highest level, from quake to counterstrike, that would boggle most software's code and result in false positives. I prefer to play games where the skilled can excel, ra
Re:Counteracting cheating (Score:2)
When I first read this I wanted to disagree strongly. I mean, why penalise the people who truly are good shots?
But then I thought about it a bit more (since I'm on dialup it takes a while for "reply to this" to load
Publishers are too quick to wash their hands (Score:4, Interesting)
Like cheaters, publishers don't see the big picture. They prefer to see the selfish short-term game, to the detriment of the entire industry.
I think that the only viable solutions to online cheating are the same ones used in real life.
Re:Publishers are too quick to wash their hands (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Publishers are too quick to wash their hands (Score:2)
So don't lump me in with "/. is usually..."
Re:Publishers are too quick to wash their hands (Score:4, Insightful)
This is one of those ideas that sound great but are horrible in theory. Don't forget then length griefers will go to destroy others enjoyment. Those that do everything to disrupt games now will do everything in their power to ruin the reputations of better players in the future. And then you will not only be removed from a single session, but from all future games.
Independent observers -- Some type of referee system would complement the above one and allow greater trust in the reputation system. If a player has a complaint logged against them, a referee could log into games where that player was playing and attempt to determine if the complaints were true.
That one is better, but those referees would either need to be volunteers (and there seem to be some organisations who try to do such a thing right now), or preferably people employed by the game companies (just like gamemasters in MMO games). The companies will only be willing to pay for a staff in subscription based products. But I could imagine that a lot of gamers would be willing to pay a monthly fee if they were guaranteed a fair(er) environement.
Re:Publishers are too quick to wash their hands (Score:3, Interesting)
Hence the suggestion for a referee-like system whereby independent evaluators can step in to determine whether or not complaints have merit.
Look, this is the same as it is in real life. Do you think Tennis would be the same game it is if there were no referees and if players didn't have to behave themselves to protect their reputations? If tennis players were anonymo
Mark Twain said it best... (Score:5, Funny)
-malakai
ah ha ha, troll? (Score:5, Interesting)
Are we no longer allowed to talk about an article if it hurts a country's nationalism?
-malakai
I'd rather deal with spam than cheaters. (Score:5, Insightful)
I wonder who really comes out ahead?
Hell I still haven't won Baldur's Gate! I guess I'll have lots of fun playing 30+ years of video games when I finally retire! Ultima III was the first game I beat as a kid and it took forever. Ultima III-V are probably my favorite games of all time. Crappy graphics, but great story/playability.
Re:I'd rather deal with spam than cheaters. (Score:2)
AIMBOT ? (Score:5, Funny)
Ugh, no WONDER I get so many gaming morons asking why my Aol Instant Messenger Bot doesn't work for Counterstrike.
Must.... restrain.... anger....
There's a Simpsons quote for everything... (Score:1)
Damn them! (Score:4, Funny)
Damn those French! First they protest OUR war, now they cheat at OUR games! I say we make them drown in a pool of Freedom(R) Fries(TM)!
</patriot>
DRM (Score:2, Interesting)
But isn't this the perfect application for DRM? Only a signed and trusted executables can be run while connected to game servers. I mean, I only have windows for playing games, so it's not like for me it would be a big deal. But then again I don't want to let all the evil in the door. I'm so conflicted.
Re:DRM (Score:3, Insightful)
DRM, AS IT SEEMS LIKELY TO BE APPLIED (lol M$ lol), is evil. DRM itself is not. It is a tool, and like any tool, can be used for good or evil. Would you call a screwdriver evil? Would you call a C++ compiler evil?
What you described would be a case where DRM can be used for good. Good for you...if we threw out any technology just because it could possibly be used for evil, we wouldn't even have fire, let alone the Internet.
Re:DRM (Score:1)
And actually, I had my technologies mixed up! No one even called me on that. I meant the TCPA/Palladium stuff. I believe games already encrypt themselves, and manage their copyrights fair enough, although people still break them..
Isn't this the geek way? (Score:1)
Some people are faster, fitter or quicker on the keys. The geeks found a way around that, that's what geeks do!
Some people are better at the games (through hard work, perserverance and natural ability). The geeks found a way to even the score. Well done.
Microwave ovens are cheats for cooking, cars are cheats for walking. You can still cook or walk if you choose too. There are whole communities of people who don't cheat.
Re:Isn't this the geek way? (Score:2)
Re:Isn't this the geek way? (Score:2)
Re:Isn't this the geek way? (Score:1)
If you go and play football in the park with strangers, some of them won't play nice.
Re:Isn't this the geek way? (Score:2)
Personally I just don't understand the cheaters. It's a fucking game, not real life.
Re:Isn't this the geek way? (Score:1)
Well, people were going to congratulate the cheat coders, but noticed the cheat was distributed to people...
I think coding the cheats may be cool, or something. Takes skill, I suppose. Using the cheats when it's not agreed upon, especially by people who didn't write the hacks (vast majority of the cheaters), is not good. Dishonorable. The problem isn't that the cheats are made, it's that they're used to ruin the game for non-cheaters.
Underlying problems and self selecting environment (Score:3, Insightful)
Most online cheaters are the same people that give hackers the name geeks. The online environment affords them a unique venue where they can hurt or spoil others fun, and generally take out their problems on others.
The online gaming environment preselctcts for these people and once they are part of it in much the same way a prison serves as dissemination point for criminal technique, the games serve to provide an avenue for the exchange of cheating techniques.
I doubt there ever will be a cheat free gaming environmnet. The primary reason is that the game companies don 't want to take the trouble to make it happen and too large a percentage of their gamers don't want it. After all if you provided a fair environment these people would all have to find somewhere else to be asses.
Couple of thoughts (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Couple of thoughts (Score:2)
Cool point. I played Netrek [netrek.org] for many many years, and the 'borgs', or robot/semi-robot players usually didn't have much of an effect on game outcome. They would make the less-experienced players get pissed off and leave, which is a regrettable side effect, but they would often be replaced by better players who were more focused on winning games than battles.
Re: (Score:2)
I've played that game... (Score:3, Interesting)
And cheating isn't as bad in Army Ops as they imply. Very rarely do I see something that is only explained by cheating in the game. Maybe someone wants to discredit it, so that gamers move on to a newer game?
Re:Don't ban cheaters (Score:3, Insightful)
Instead of saying "fix t
Re:Don't ban cheaters (Score:2)
BS. Cheaters and those that make the cheats are nothing more than criminals. Illegally reverse engineering copywrited software. You should be treated the same as others who crack software.
It's not illegal to reverse engineer copyrighted software under the DMCA, it's illegal to do it to circumvent a measure that controls access to a copyrighted work. I.e., it's illegal to crack copy protection. I don't see any reason why it would be illegal to reverse engineer a game to create a cheat. Even if it is i
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Don't ban cheaters (Score:1)
Packet sniffing recognition software.
Games will never be "fixed" because there is ALWAYS a way to cheat, and cheat coding as a way of getting people to "fix" their games is like choking someone to get them to breathe.
Fix the problem at the source (Score:1)
People grief others because they can get away with it.
There will always be griefers. Even if they don't run cheat software, they can grief by (for example) disconnecting before the match is over, nullifying the result to maintain their league status.
But if you make it so they are accountable for their actions, you will reduce a lot of cheating. Make online play associated with a credit ca
Selection effect (Score:2, Informative)
It's worth noting that the particular user making this comment lives in the UK; the vast majority of the twitch games worth playing are going to be served and populated by locals-- in this case, people on the Eastern side of the Atlantic.
I've seen far too many lame people on "local" U.S. of A. servers to believe that France has the highest incidence of cheaters across the globe. At the very least, I don't see how they could be at the top of the list if you'r
Makes sense... (Score:4, Funny)
"Did you know most cheaters come from France?"
What else are they gonna do? Counter-Strike doesn't have a surrender key.
Responsibility (Score:4, Insightful)
In gaming, when a cheat is made public, why dont the vendors feel the same need to fix it before their reputation and sales suffer? Why dont they value the trust of their customers more? Maybe because gamers are so used to cheats that it don't even occur to them to blame the vendor...
It's not by any means impossible to prevent cheats, but it costs the vendors money and time. Until it's economically more sensible for them to do something about it, there will be no changes in the amount of cheating going on. As the gaming industry expands rapidly, we'll see more competition and choice for users. In a few years it might be possible that you simply skip buying a new hyped game, because you know that coming from this and that vendor it'll be full of holes. You rather go buying some other game. Until this is the situation, live with cheats.
I guess my point is, yell at the game developers. They are the ones who made it possible to cheat, they are the one responsible.
--Erik
www.darkfallonline.com [darkfallonline.com]
Re:Responsibility (Score:1)
This is incorrect. It is not possible to prevent all manner of cheating by fixing the code. Any fix on the client can be circumvented without some sort of DRM.
Re:Responsibility (Score:1)
With online gaming what lacks is to simply make the servers more authoritative. A game client should as far as possible be considered untrusted, and not be given much more info than what the user should be in posession of. Doing this without letting lag have a violent negative effect on gameplay requires excellent predicition mechanis
Easy, keep track of people's accuracy (Score:1)
I see nothing wrong with cheating, if you're doing it on your own, or with people who agree. If you want to have a competition with 10 people to see who cheats better, then why not? Just don't spoil the fun for the rest.
Re:Easy, keep track of people's accuracy (Score:1)
I'm thinking about quitting pso (Score:1)
Damn it! (Score:1)