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Games Entertainment

St Louis Continues Pushing Violent Games Law 35

Posted by simoniker from the ain't-over-til-it's-over dept.
Thanks to Frictionless Insight for pointing to a St.Louis Today article indicating officials have decided not to give up on trying to outlaw the sale of violent video games to minors, despite a recent tide against their effort. As a CNN article explains, ".. [the original] ordinance, passed by the St. Louis County Council in 2000, requires children under 17 to have parental consent before they can buy violent or sexually explicit video games or play similar arcade games", but this was struck down as unconstitutional on June 4th, with a judge citing the First Amendment and the protection of free speech. The County has now set a petition for review, saying the courts "set too high a standard" for proving a link between videogames and violence. The saga continues..
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St Louis Continues Pushing Violent Games Law More

St Louis Continues Pushing Violent Games Law

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  • St. Louis County is not the City of St. Louis (Score:4, Informative)

    by trentfoley ( 226635 ) on Tuesday June 24, 2003 @05:07PM (#6289009) Homepage Journal
    ...passed by the St. Louis County Council in 2000, requires children...

    Thank god I live in the City of St. Louis. I keep hearing about this kind of strange goings on out in the County. The last time I heard about anything this crazy was when they tried to ban MTV in St. Charles County. That didn't last very long, though.

    I have kids too, though. So, of course, I'm a concerned parent. But, as Bart said unto Lisa, "How can you expect to become desensitized to violence if you don't watch it."

    • They actually didn't ban MTV in St. Charles county...the cable provider just stopped carrying it. I think that was just after I graduated high school and left for Rolla, but I seem to remember hearing about St. Charles area teens actually forming a picket line outside the cable company office to protest!
  • Next, are they going to try writing a law to restrict children from seeing movies with an R rating? I know theaters voluntarily enforce MPAA ratings, but last time I checked, it wasn't law.
    • Actually, it law here in Tennessee. As a matter of fact, I think the letter of the law says that the parent has to watch the movie with you (i.e. you'r mom can't just buy the ticket for you and leave)

  • What are they gonna do next. How bout The No luod music law. I like video games. Like StarCraft and Diablo 2. They're a bunch of poops. I'm glad im well away from that state. math.random*(((Grrr)))){}
    • How bout The No luod music law.

      In California, if your car stereo is too loud, they can impound it (the stereo, or the car if they can't easily remove the stereo).

      Then, of course, there's the usual laws regarding loud music (or any loud noise) between certain hours (ie after midnight).

  • The question they need to be asked: (Score:5, Insightful)

    by lightspawn ( 155347 ) on Tuesday June 24, 2003 @05:15PM (#6289069) Homepage
    Would you pass a similar law for books? movies? television? Why be media-specific?

    Oh, and that game those punk kids play, you know the one where they pretend to have this war, you know? and they're trying to kill everybody on the other side so they can capture the king? That seems pretty violent too.
    • I'm guessing that the people that really want this law are parents who don't want their kids playing violent video games. So why don't parents just not let their own kid play the violent game? Why are they trying to put laws in place for something parents should be doing themselves. I'm assuming parents are the main proponents, but it could also be nosy people that see kids playing violent games and want to prevent it. To these people, why don't you have your own kid and discipline him/her like you want

      • I'm guessing that the people that really want this law are parents who don't want their kids playing violent video games. So why don't parents just not let their own kid play the violent game?

        Actually, I have a theory about that, it's not only that they don't want their own kids playing videogames, they also don't want other people's kids playing videogames either. There are lots of reasons for this. I mean people believe in things like the ideas that games cause murders and suicide as a superstition

  • Too high a standard (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Danse ( 1026 ) on Tuesday June 24, 2003 @05:23PM (#6289138)
    On June 4, that panel said the county's use of "anecdote and supposition" did not establish enough connection between violent games and violent behavior to warrant a limit on the game makers' free speech rights.


    The county's petition for review says the 8th Circuit panel set too high a standard.


    Yep. I can definitely see where they're coming from on this. I mean how much more scientific do you have to be in order to take away people's rights? What does the court want, an actual scientific study or something?! I think the court just doesn't place enough value on a good anecdote or a seemingly plausible supposition. If the court insists on more evidence than that, then they might have to actually make an effort, and its even possible that the study might not support their position! (although, granted, that's not likely, depending on who they hire and how much they pay)

  • Well.... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Monark24 ( 669579 ) on Tuesday June 24, 2003 @05:42PM (#6289271)
    I live in STL County, but being a bunch of years over 17 I don't care... I have been following this videogame violence stuff since the mid 90's, and what it comes down to is if the parents think that violence and content will ruin their children's minds they have the right to say "no". What I don't understand is why with the ERAB Ratings ON THE GAME PACKAGE why they dont make a decision for themselves instead of going for legislation... I suppose that could be asking to much for parents...

    • "It doesn't affect me so I don't care." Uhuh. Now, _there's_ a good attitude.. </sarcasm>

      Especially considering that no one affected by the law is able to vote... (assuming voting age of 18)

  • The troubling pr0nography issue (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 24, 2003 @06:16PM (#6289559)
    Well, we do have a similar laws to keep pr0n out of the hands of minors.

    We have only anecdotal evidence at best that this is harmful to kids. (Unless there was a study wherein they showed a bunch of pr0n to a bunch of kids...and that's messed up).

    Why do those who feel this is different, feel that way?

    Could violent games be to potential murderers like pr0n to the potential rapist?

    Discuss.
    • Could violent games be to potential murderers like pr0n to the potential rapist?

      Actually, that's exactly right, as in:
      the link between the two is either completely non-existant or is actually there for some percentage of the population, depending on who you pay to do the study.

      Even porn that actually depicts rape (which is in itself illegal in most states, if not the entire country) does not appeal to all rapists, and violent video games do not appeal to all violent offenders.

      If people took care to pay
      • Welcome to the wonderful world of social statistics.

        Like so many other things, many people in the media, and elsewhere only have a basic grasp on a field of knowledge, and then they run with it, instantly becoming an expert. Statistics seem to be one of those things that many people just can't get straight.

        Here is an easy experiment: If you have fliped a given coin 5 times, and each time so far it has come up heads, what is the chance that it will come up heads again?

        Ask someone that, and very few
        • Yeah, I got a pretty wonderful welcome to it when I took Social Psychology in college, and pretty much determined for myself that my teacher was full of it. I did my final paper in that course on the lack of effect of music and violent imagery as a tool for turning children into killers and rapists.
          • If your still in school and you want a good laugh, take sociology some time, talk about getting your pants on backwards...
            • Yeah, I had a number of friends that took sociology around the same time I took Social Psychology, and it essentially said the same thing in a slightly different way (from a different perspective, more or less). I've basically been in school on and off for the last 7 years, as time and the travel requirements of my job permit. Luckily, I've been able to take a pretty broad set of courses over that period because, for the most part, if I simply took comp sci classes all the time I'd get bored out of my mind

  • Ok... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 24, 2003 @07:52PM (#6290275)
    requires children under 17 to have parental consent before they can buy violent or sexually explicit video games or play similar arcade games.

    From the sounds of things so far, slashdoters make this sound like a bad thing.

    Guess then you don't care for the same rules applying to movies either. By this logic little Johny should be able to see M an XXX rated movies.

    • Guess then you don't care for the same rules applying to movies either. By this logic little Johny should be able to see M an XXX rated movies.

      There's no law preventing children from buying or renting R rated movies (though most rental businesses either allow parents to control this or don't rent them to children). The XXX type ratings are produced entirely by the industry that makes those movies, and the ratings have no effect on whether or not they can be viewed by minors (and to some degree I do have a

      • I agree with you on all points except one...

        so it would probably help if the M-rated games had additional content information like TV ratings often do

        If you look on the rating label on the back of game there is more of an explanation of the rating. It will say things like animated violence or nudity

  • ...is not in St. Louis County. St. Louis is its own entity. St. Louis County consists of suburban St. Louis.

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