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PC Games (Games) Entertainment Games

Microsoft Stops Making SideWinder Peripherals 90

Posted by simoniker from the the-joy-of-stick dept.
Thanks to an anonymous reader for pointing to a GameSpot article mentioning that Microsoft has discontinued its SideWinder range of gaming peripherals, which includes joysticks, gamepads, and racing wheels. According to the article, "..a Microsoft representative said the decision is a result of the continued decline in sales of all PC game controllers and the fact that most PC games are designed specifically to be controlled with a mouse and keyboard." What did you use your PC joystick/gamepad for, and why do you think the SideWinder PC peripheral market was popular in the first place?
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Microsoft Stops Making SideWinder Peripherals More

Microsoft Stops Making SideWinder Peripherals

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  • My own controller-usage (Score:4, Interesting)

    by denisb ( 411264 ) <denis@d e n i s . no> on Wednesday July 02, 2003 @05:39AM (#6347798) Homepage
    After I bought one of those PS2-to-USB converter thingies and a PS2 controller I haven't used my normal PC joysticks / gamepads at all.

    What they claim is true to a certain degree in my experience, the best PC only games are definitely better played with mouse & keys, while the ports / dual platform titles are more often than not best played on the console, using the console controller.

    However I do believe there are a number of PC controller users who will disagree. There is probably quite a few nice PC controllers out there that definitely enhance the gaming experience. IMHO though the PS2 controller is very nice for those games best not played with a keyboard, like puzzlers and arcadegames.

    • Re:My own controller-usage (Score:4, Insightful)

      by GeckoX ( 259575 ) on Wednesday July 02, 2003 @10:06AM (#6349721)
      Agreed.

      As for why sales suck for PC controllers, well maybe this can explain it:
      I use a gravis gamepad pro, exactly the same as a PlayStation controller. It is fully mappable to any keyboard configuration required. I've had it and used it exclusively as my only game controller on my pc for 6 years. (Amazingly it's worked on every MS OS since 95).

      Obviously, I haven't bought any MS controllers in that time, why would I? I'm willing to bet there are a slew of people out there like me that have their controllers they like and use and have no intention of buying another.
      How many people do you think go out and buy a new set of car-simulation controllers regularly? Good enough is good enough.

      Now, this begs the question, if good ole billyboy really wanted to save the sales of these controllers he'd have to change something in Win to force people to go buy new controllers with that 'perceived-must-have' feature. How's about programmable controllers with upgradeable memory? jk.

      Anyways, I think you get my point. Think I'm on the right track?
      • That's funny, I've never had a PC controller last more than 3 months (including the GPPro - the verticals slide into diagonals way to easily), while I've never had a console controller wear out on me.
      • I have the USB adapter for the PS2 controller, which is pretty much all I need for games where I might use a gamepad.

        Other than that, I have the SideWinder force feedback wheel, which is great for the various driving games I've played over the years, especially when they support the feedback well (as opposed to supporting it poorly, which many games do, in which case I just turn the feedback off), but it unfortunately has a giant wall-wart power supply and the model I have is serial, so any other game cont
    • I also have PlayStation-to-USB converters. They work great, and require *no* drivers at all (they appear as generic USB HID devices).

      I originally bought them for DDR, but have found I like them for other games as well. The Microsoft Sidewinder joysticks are just too big and clunky! While other controllers get smaller and more efficient, Microsoft just gets clunkier. Somewhat like American cars vs. Japanese cars, a few decades ago....

      Microsoft's last few joysticks, with force feedback, were just ghastl

  • Who to Blame? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Captain Large Face ( 559804 ) on Wednesday July 02, 2003 @05:55AM (#6347858) Homepage

    Is it surprising that there is a decline in games requiring peripherals other than a mouse and keyboard when Microsoft themselves seem to produce the majority of their games to be controlled by, erm, mouse and keyboard?

  • Quake (Score:4, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 02, 2003 @05:56AM (#6347861)
    I remember Microsoft at one of the first Quake cons trying to convince people they could play quake with a sidewinder. It was a joke. The rep kept getting his ass kicked by even the most mundane players. He looked like a sad guy. Felt bad for him so I let him beat me. Even then I had to play like a retard.

    Bye bye sidewinder...you useless pos

    • I remember Microsoft at one of the first Quake cons trying to convince people they could play quake with a sidewinder. It was a joke. The rep kept getting his ass kicked by even the most mundane players. He looked like a sad guy. Felt bad for him so I let him beat me. Even then I had to play like a retard.

      When I started playing Quake is used a joystick. Figuring it sucked for aiming I complemented it with a mouse. That was not a bad setup. Circle-strafing has never been easier. And I got quite good

  • Didn't know any better.. (Score:4, Informative)

    by darkmayo ( 251580 ) on Wednesday July 02, 2003 @06:05AM (#6347910)
    First controller I had for my PC was a sidewinder game pad... the buttons and directional pad stopped working with far less wear and tear than my old snes controllers ever got.

    Then for some reason I bought another sidewinder pad years later... same thing happend.

    good riddance to crappy controllers.
    • My sidewinder controllers work fine, I even bought extra gamepads because I liked them so much but they discontinued the model that I liked and replaced it with one with less buttons so when I found them at compgeeks.com I bought more, the gamepads are linkable so you can have 4 on one gameport, and my Precision Pro joystick is still going strong too.
      • I think it was my GF who broke the other one ...

        she was playing all the Super Mario Bros (from the orignal all the way to Yoshis Island) and she would get a little crazy on the buttons...

      • Are you talking about the 6-button (well 8 if you count the shoulders) black model? I love that model. I've been using mine for 5 years now and works like a dream. I have to say it's probably the most comfortable controller I have ever held (even better than Sony's Dual Shock). The D-pad leaves a bit to be desired (I have to switch to the mouse when I use the sniper rifle in GTA3), but it's definitely better than those new silver models they started releasing a couple years ago (when they switched to US
        • yea thats the one.

          The directional pad had always sucked.. but when the buttons stopped working or not triggering right then I just tossed it.

          The feel of the controller felt great but for me it didn't last.. bad luck maybe.. (I never caught the gf smashing the pad against the ground when she would get killed in SMB3 but... you never know)

          anyways I'll probably pick up a gravis game pad or maybe just get an adapter and use a dual shock.
        • My biggest problem with the old 6 button sidewinder aside from the mushy D-pad was that the 6 buttons' layout was curved weird and they were slighly off center from each other. Your fingers kind of got lost on there.

          A lot of times it was hard to tell which button you were pressing without looking down at the pad. They probably should've made it more like the Saturn's 6 Button controller.

      • ah, that is a great pad, i got 3 of 'em at compgeeks as well when they were there, like $5 each.

        my question: i was never able to get 3 to work at once! i can get two to work, and all the pads work alone or in combinations of two, but never got that third one working. do you actually use 3 or 4 of them at a time?

        i'm using a regular gameport on a SB Live 5.1 somethingorother. i was thinking maybe there just isn't enough voltage in the gameport to pass through to the third controller, but eventually i g

    • Really? I had the exact opposite experience. Mine has been really beaten up, slopped on, and generally abused, and it still works fantastically. I was actually thinking of finding a few more of the old gameport models for sports games at LANs.
    • Funny you mention snes pads because my buddy and I use them to play Mario Kart... in emulation. With a little jimmy rigging you can hook it up to your parallel port.http://snespad.emulationworld.com [emulationworld.com]
  • hmm, i bought my sidewinder 3d way back in 1996. it came with mechwarrior mercenaries, and was like $60 total. i used it with that game, the original tie fighter game, xwing vs. tie fighter, and.... xwing alliance? the one where you pilot a version of the millenium falcon. picked the last one up for $7 in a used bargain bin about two years ago. sidewinder still comes out from time to time to play, but i haven't had to upgrade since. got a $20 driving wheel for need for speed: porsche unleashed, and a $9 sai

    • Re:sidewinder 3d (Score:3, Insightful)

      by PapaZit ( 33585 )
      Same here, only I bought Mechwarrior Mercenaries, then bought the Sidewinder 3d because it was so perfect with that game. The "walk in one direction, shoot in another" element made the game a lot better.

      Like others, I was impressed with the joystick, but exceedingly UNimpressed with the driver. Once I upgraded from 95 to 98, the joystick would flake out on a regular basis (rarely less often than every hour) and a hard reboot would be necessary. That made it pretty useless for long gaming sessions.

      From
      • I always felt like the sidewinder joystick was made specifically for the MechWarrior series. Its capabilities fit so well with they gameplay in the series. I haven't bought a new joystick since the original Sidewinder, and I only use it when I decide to play my old school MechWarrior games.
  • and then the Sidewinder wasn't the best one

    I've got 3 force-feedback wheels

    The Logitech one on the PS2 is the best of the bunch though

  • Joysticks rule (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Naikrovek ( 667 ) <jjohnson&psg,com> on Wednesday July 02, 2003 @06:49AM (#6348095)
    Hey for flight games (flight sim 2004 comes out in less than a month) a force feedback joystick is almost essential - FS2002 (and none of its predecessors) worked well AT ALL with just a keyboard and mouse.

    I'm going to buy two force feedbacks just so i know i'll always have one for the flight sim stuff.

    • Re:Joysticks rule (Score:1, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Wrong. You don't need a *force feedback* joystick to play flight sims. Now it's pretty hard to fly some of them without a joystick but force feedback is an option, not a necessity, in most cases.
      • Agreed. Force feedback is a hindrance in the case of flight-sims, when accuracy is the name of the game. All the bumping around from the gyros will just screw you up.

        You need a license to have a dog, but any fool can have a child.
        • Ever played IL2?

          I bought a FF joystick because of that game. Playing on a normal joystick was next to impossible as you can't feel when your wings are starting to slip, and you very quickly loose control. Taking off is even harder if you can't feel how your plane is trying to twist around the prop.

          I can't speak for any other flight-sims, they may be crap or unrealistic..
    • I guess it depends on what you're flying. If you plan to fly something like an Airbus the most realism would be gained by haveing a left-handed joystick *without* force feedback.

      If you are flying any other plane though, I think your money will be better spent on a yoke. You can easily pick one up for less than what you're willing to pay for two FF joysticks.
    • However, there are other game device makers. I have a logitech "wingman strike force 3d" force feedback stick, and i love it.

  • GTA III (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Graf ( 10874 ) *
    Decided I needed a sidewinder gamepad for GTA III. Don't think I've used it for any other games (well, apart from vice city) but it was still a damn sight cheaper than buying a PS2.

  • M$ has only their crappy products to blame (Score:5, Informative)

    by bmnc ( 643126 ) on Wednesday July 02, 2003 @07:21AM (#6348234)
    for poor sales. I bought Starlancer, and found I couldnt play it since the only control device for it was a M$ sidewinder joystick. I borrowed one from a friend (who NEVER used it) only to find the joystick was crap. I havent played Starlancer for more than 15min consequently. I bought a M$ sidewinder joypad so I could play old school platformers etc on my PC. This one is EVEN WORSE than the joystick. It has littel ridges designed to give your thumb blisters and the buttons are placed so that you can't do combos easily. I am GLAD that M$ has stopped hawking their effluent. On a side note, I own a M$ office keyboard and optical mouse and both are pretty damn good, so not all M$ products are crap.
  • This really isn't much of a problem. In my experience a PS2 pad with a USB adaptor is enough for any joypad requiring PC games, and there are plenty of other manufacturers (Logitech, for example) who will step in to the void.

    It's a shame, however, that they didn't put the same skill in to the design of the original XBox pads that they did with the Sidewinder range. Maybe then we wouldn't have ended up with the uncomfortably placed buttons and stiff triggers.
    • "It's a shame, however, that they didn't put the same skill in to the design of the original XBox pads that they did with the Sidewinder range. Maybe then we wouldn't have ended up with the uncomfortably placed buttons and stiff triggers."

      Really? I found the Xbox control pads (particularly the S controller) to be remarkably similiar to a Sidewinder, only better.

      I'd still rather use something like the PS2 or Gamecube pad through a USB converter than a Sidewinder in any case, though.
      • The standard PS2 controller is probably the easiest to use controller I've ever owned. The XBox Controller-S is a step in the right direction, but it has had the effect of placing the Start, Select, Black and White buttons in uncomfortable places - especially for games where the Black and White buttons are used frequently.

  • Emulation (Score:4, Funny)

    by Gr33nNight ( 679837 ) on Wednesday July 02, 2003 @07:53AM (#6348439)
    The MS controller works great for all those ROMS that I (dont) have. And even if I did have them, I own every game for which I have a ROM to..
    • I found playing Mario World, and all those other SNES games very difficult to play with my key board, so I paid a a whole $10 for a game pad, and it's probably the best gaming controller I've ever owned. Although one bad side effect from it being $10 is that the directional pad is already wearing out.

  • With either a Dreamcast or Hori arcade stick through a console to USB adaptor you get a far better feel on things than a crummy cursor layout for games. Spindizzy Worlds is just the absolute Don with one.

    What, you mean there are games other than through emulators?

  • Strategic Commander (Score:4, Informative)

    by wolf- ( 54587 ) on Wednesday July 02, 2003 @08:07AM (#6348567) Homepage
    I use my Strategic Commander in my regular work as much as I use it for gaming.

    The programable buttons are great for repetitive key sequences n such.

    • The commander is a pretty darn wonderful controller, with a lot of flexibility.

      While it was clearly intended for RTS games, there is absolutely no reason to restrict it to such uses. I first bought mine for playing Quake 2, as with the 26 buttons at my fingertips, along with the movement controls, it was so much easier to use than the keyboard. It took a week or so to adjust, and before long, I was much better than I ever managed when trying to use the keyboard.

      Any game that I play that has any signific
      • The SC is awesome for fps games. I'm using it intensely for Planetside right now - I hope it never wears out. The only other one I've seen like it is from Belkin, and it looks weak compared to the strategic commander. Now I'm worried, I might have to hunt for another so I'm not DOA when/if my SC dies..

        I tried finding someone at MS who would give me the file layout for the SC key files. I don't like their editing program right now; its not good for coming up with long macros. No love from the MS groupi
        • This lack of macro support was my major gripe with my SC. I bought it for Mech Mercs a couple of years ago and never really got into it. It has sat in a drawer in my desk for about 18 months.

          Maybe it's time to bring it out again...
  • The only steering wheel I like is the Thrustmaster Nascar Pro Digital 2. It's not force-feedback, but it has a great solid feel to it, much better than others I've used, although they're somewhat hard to find. I've got a couple, and also got one for my dad to play racing games with.

    The last one I got, the brake pedal wasn't mounted on its potentiometer correctly, so I had to pop the cover off and spin the dial a bit before putting it together again, but it works great now too.

    Using mouse/keyboard/joyst
  • I love and will use my sidewinder gamepad untill the day I die, but I had 3 sidewinder joysticks fail on me in under a year. In every case the joystick( or usb, for the last one) connector practically fell apart.
  • Until I got XP and discovered there wasn't support for the joystick. I was looking to upgrade anyway to a force feedback but avoided another Sidewinder since Microsoft essentially abandoned me with my perfectly good stick. Still, my joystick lasted a good 7 or 8 years. I had CH Products joysticks that would wear out in less than a year before that.

  • Dissenting Voice (Score:3, Funny)

    by Monthenor ( 42511 ) <monthenorNO@SPAMgogeek.org> on Wednesday July 02, 2003 @09:34AM (#6349399) Homepage
    I don't know why there's so much anti-Sidewinder sentiment on here. It makes me sad to see M$ stop supporting a key piece of hardware, and gives me yet another reason to never upgrade from Win98SE. I bought my Sidewinder gamepad about five years ago and it's still going strong. I use it for MAME, Fighter Kyodotai [fc2web.com], MAME, emulators, and...oh yeah, MAME [mame.dk]. I've never had problems, except that the pad isn't easy to make Dragon Punch motions with.
    • Seriously, seriously, you really ought to treat yourself to a Dreamcast arcade stick and a DC>USB converter. Its much nicer than a pad, and since the controls are pretty much identical to what you'd find in a Naomi Net City setup make the MAME thing an awful lot more authentic.

      The other way to go is to get a PS2 stick from Hori (their new Soul Calibur 2 sticks are lovely) and a converter for that; not cheap, but more readily available than a DC one might be.

      Finally, watch it with the converters - some
  • The best gamepad for the pc has always been the gravis gamepad. Then it was the gravis gamepad pro. Now, it's the gravis gamepad pro USB. Just plug it into any USB on any pc and it works automatically without a hitch. True, most games use mouse and keyboard, but there are games for which the gamepad is very useful.

    1) Emulated games. PS2 to USB converters achieve the same effect however. But $15 Gravis are cheaper than PS controllers.

    2) EA Sports games.

    3) Some flash games, occasionaly someone is smart en

  • Hmm.. no surprise. (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    If you do have a controller you will notice some games (indiana jones, enter the matrix ), play exactly like they do in the Xbox. hmm.. is MS trying to cut down on controllers so people have to buy xboxes to get console like gameplay?

  • Too bad (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Utopia ( 149375 )
    Micosoft's force feedback controllers [microsoft.com] were outstanding products. I have a force feedback joystick and a steering wheel. I bought the steering wheel first for car racing games then got the joystick for flight simulator games. Both controllers were solidly build and have stood a lot of abuse.

    Keyboards and mice are just not meant to be used with simulator games.
    With a keyboard I would be happy land somewhere near a airport.
    With a joystick I can actually land it on the runway.
    • Hmm...it surprised me when I looked around and saw that my joystick, steering wheel, and gamepad are all Microsoft Sidewinders.

      The joystick is/was perfectly fine- until I upgraded to a machine without a game port. But I don't play Mechwarrior anymore, so that was okay.

      The steering wheel was pretty good- but the pedals were too light- I had to put something heavy behind them. The wheel itself was fine. But I STILL suck at Rallisport Challenge, so I never use that anymore.

      The gamepad was fine- I mean, i
  • Even though most pilot training centers will tell you that Flight Sim's are bad for learning how to fly. Using the keyboard has got to be a lot worse than a force feedback joystick...

    They produce Flight Sim.. Do they really expect everyone to use the keybaord now?

    Ohh.. I use an RF joypad for a remote control on my freevo box.

    • Even though most pilot training centers will tell you that Flight Sim's are bad for learning how to fly.

      That's because they want to make money selling you time in a real aircraft. While flight sims can't reproduce the minutae of flying or the subtle sensations that can tell you everything about your aircraft, they can be good practice (assuming you have a decent sim) and a way to learn emergency procedures in a consequence-free environment. If your sim is true-to-life, then you should be able to practice

  • Granted, I've only ever had one, so maybe it was a fluke and I picked the wrong model, but it felt cheap and flimsy. I'll stick with my nigh-indestructible Logitech Wingman stuff: a Digital 3D and a Rumblepad.

    The Digital 3D is almost 4 years old, but it's as tight and responsive as the day I bought it. The Rumblepad only 6 months old, but it feels well-built and reliable. Having both work perfectly under Linux is just a bonus.

  • I don't know... (Score:3, Informative)

    by Mortanius ( 225192 ) on Wednesday July 02, 2003 @10:27AM (#6349980) Homepage
    ...what you people do to your SideWinders, but mine has lasted me many, many years of relatively rough use without any problems. I bought one of the 2nd-gen force-feedback Sidewinder sticks for use with FS2000/CFS1&2 a couple years ago. It doesn't get too beat up in flight sim, but in combat flight sim the stick meets the walls on a regular basis, I haven't noticed any wear on it yet so far. It's been a great stick, from what I hear not exactly the best out there, but it's served me well. The only complaint I would have is that the motor is too weak, no matter how hard it tries it really can't keep you from moving the stick.

    I also picked up an open-box Sidewinder wheel last year, haven't used that so much, but the times that I have it's been a pretty solid performer. The biggest complaint I would have about that one would be the pedals. They're entirely plastic, no weight whatsoever to the base, and although using RJ-11 plugs to connect the pedals to the joystick is a neat idea, the cable's casing started tearing very shortly after I first used it from being pushed in and out of the channel made for it to sit in. Again, I'd have to complain a bit about a weak motor, although that could be more a function of the game developers, it just doesn't feel very realistic when driving.
  • Microsoft's joysticks always seemed rather flimsy to me. I have an old Thrustmaster (4 button, pov hat) that I beat the shit out of. It has a big rubber thing at the base of the stick so you can really yank it around without hurting it. It always bothered me that the microsoft ones (and others) had that little twig on the bottom that was sure to break or become off-center.

    Unfortunatley, my trusty old joystick is nearing its last. Can anyone recommend a sturdy joystick that can take its place?
    • Yes, the 'Logitech Strike Force 3D' kicks some serious ass, and you can get them on eBay for just over $20 if you look hard enough ($90 retail).

      Dom
    • I have a Microsoft SideWinder Force Feedback 2 (Pro maybe?) It has a massive (and heavy, due to the mechanics for the stick) base and is incredibly sturdy, with 4 button and pov hat on the stick and 4 buttons and a throttle control on the base. Its centering mechanism is through the force feedback system, and motions feel very sturdy (when the force feedback tells it to). In this joystick's case, "force feedback" doesn't just mean rumble. It means the stick can fight your movements, make it seem like yo
  • The future of gaming on the PC is in RTS and FPS, and MMORPG games... these are the only games that haven't translated well to the console market. Finally the useless joystick will die on the PC. Sure it's being used for those occasional flightsims, and the odd battle mecha game, but any joystick I bought never really ever did me any good for the PC! Good riddance... I'd rather concentrate my programming and Internet efforts on my PC and use my PS2 console for games... games that were designed to use a
    • I remember hearing that same argument about ten years ago, except for the following alterations:

      The future of gaming on the PC is in Adventure games and Simulation games, and Bard's Tale style RPGs... these are the only games that haven't translated well to the console market. Finally the useless joystick will die on the PC. Sure it's being used for those occasional flightsims, and the odd battle racing game, but any joystick I bought never really ever did me any good for the PC! Good riddance... I'd rat

  • That really sad to see! It was a simple fact that Microsoft actually made *good* game controllers, and is one of the reasons I decided to go with an Xbox for my consol. One of the reasons sales might be in decline is that all the people that would get a game controller for their PC might already have them? New sales being young first timers to the controler market. Most games are designed for a mouse and keyboard, that is true. However, I point to the Xbox/Playstation and see a large number of titles ported
  • Obviously flight sim folks are the most hurt by this announcement. However, Mechwarrior without a joystick is like... is like... it sucks.
  • ...so I bought a Sidewinder. It was great for about a month, then it started drifting randomly, and finally settled on a slight turn to the left.

    In sum, sidewinders are like most other M$ products, good in theory, crap in execution. It's too bad they don't have a real production cost for their O/S or they might discontinue that product line as well.

  • Everyone seems to be ignoring... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by freeBill ( 3843 ) on Wednesday July 02, 2003 @12:18PM (#6351103) Homepage
    ...the obvious conspiracy theory here: that MS is dropping this because they want joystick/keypad gamers to switch to the XBox.

    And maybe it's a good theory to ignore. It's not much of a conspiracy theory when it's the company's official published roadmap. Why should Microsoft continue to lose money on peripherals which are used to go counter to one of their strategic goals (to get PC gamers to switch to XBox)?
  • The reason that Joysticks and Gamepads are in decline is the style of games that are now popular. What are the most popular styles of games in this country? FPS, RTS, MMORPG. Do any of these games play well with anything besides a mouse and keyboard (let's forget about the strategic commander for a second).

    Eight years ago, when plat formers, and flight games of all kinds ruled, then the joystick market was ripe. But people don't play those kind of games all that frequently. Even the Mechwarrior franchise p
  • I used my Sidewinder joystick for Xwing, Tie Fighter, and Freespace. AFter Freespace there werent many compelling flight sim titles left and the Sidewinder has been gathering dust.

    Its never even crossed my mind to get a steering wheel. Never thought a desktop steering wheel helped immerse me in the driving world, it always seemed to just be a exercise in frustration.
  • I'll just buy one of these:

    X-Arcade Machine [xgaming.net]

    Well, Ok, I won't really buy one. I'll just dream about it.

    You know, back in my day computers (Atari 800s, that is) came with joystick ports standard. Of course, the concept of a mouse was a novelty, I don't think I ever had one for my Atari.

    I remember the shock I had moving forward from my Atari with it's sturdy joysticks and decent games to the generic 8088 my Dad bought which had the crummiest joystick I had ever seen and couldn't even run Pool of Rad

  • I think the majority of Mech, Space, and Flight sim games are meant to be played with a joystick. I'm still using an old sidewinder 3d pro or something that came with hellraiser... it's served me well with all the mech games I've came across (I didn't even know that you could twist the stick to register a response), along with things like Freespace 2. Unfortunately I understand their decision to pull the plug, just how popular are mech and flight sims anyway? When is the next big one coming out?

    (rhetorical
  • i've struggled with game peripherals for PC for quite a while. had several crappy flight sticks, several gamepads... for a while, gamepadwise, it was Interact's 3d gamepad pro (or something like that) that I felt was the best: it was seethrough, had a great deal of very comfortable buttons, and worked as a keyboard pass-through device. very good controller, I'd probably still use it if I hadn't lost it in a move. :-( anyway, after that happened, struggled with a few other crappy controllers till I finally
  • I loved my SideWinder controller, but now that I have a "home theater PC", the length of the cable on the SideWinder was just a huge problem. The couch is really not that close to the TV. :)

    Now, I use a generic PlayStation2-to-USB adapter I bought at Fry's with a Dual Shock controller. It just feels better on my hands anyway. Most of my PC gaming is done with emulators anyhow (I guess that's not really PC gaming then, huh?)

  • A joystick is a must for aircraft in bf1942... cant wait for the star wars mod. Anyone know of a utility to map force feedback to buttons? This would really kick ass for bf1942( my only qualm about the game other than the tkers )

  • How do we reconcile these two statements:

    - "most PC games are designed specifically to be controlled with a mouse and keyboard"

    - there are no commonly-available mouse/keyboard style controller for console gaming platforms

    Either PC game authors are really missing the boat, or console peripheral designers are really missing the boat.
  • That's sad to hear. Just that much more likely that games like X-wing will fade away completely. I used my Sidewinder for:

    - X-Wing vs TIE Fighter
    - X-Wing Alliance
    - Freespace I & II
    - Mechwarrior II, III, IV (or whatever the latest non-expansion version was)
    - Independence War I & II

    All-in-all, I'd say I got my money's worth out of it.

    Of course, my first Kraft joystick REALLY got a workout. Pretty much everything that was action in the late 80's and early 90's used it inc X-Wing, TIE Fighter, Wi
  • I don't own any Windows machines any more, but I really do like MS peripherals. Their mice are nice, but I held back from buying a joypad since I just use one to play cheap and nasty emulators.

    I bought a Sidewinder Pro (optical, though force feedback wasn't around yet) in 1996 and got a free copy of Mechwarrior 2 with it. At the time, the joystick was insanely expensive so a full version of a game was very welcome.

    It was completely worth it, considering how much MW2 I played on it - and natively in Win95
  • I use the stragegic commander a lot for FPS, RPG and of course for all other "keyboard" playable games. The keys are directly under your finger tips and you can program any combination you want.

    Never found anything comparable... I even looked for a macro recorder for the keyboard as a software solution. No luck so far (reply to this is you know of one).

    Only thing that you need to watch out for is that it does not allow multiple keypresses at the same time (i.g. no "shift" function).

    I am by no means a

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