Star Wars Galaxies Auctions Afoot 259
Fusty writes "Game Girl Advance is running a story about the first wave of Star Wars Galaxies auctions on Ebay. Items, credits and characters are already selling for over $250, not even a month after launch. Will Sony/Verant shut down SWG auctions, like they did the EverQuest Auctions?"
I think the real question is... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:I think the real question is... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:I think the real question is... (Score:2)
Re:I think the real question is... (Score:2)
Re:I think the real question is... (Score:2)
Offtopic!! Bring it on!!
Re:I think the real question is... (Score:2)
At any rate, I'm glad to see those valuable moderator points going to good use...
Re:I think the real question is... (Score:2)
If they are foolish enough to buy it... (Score:2, Interesting)
Then one day, I found out about ebay. I took a look and saw that a particular piece of armor I had was selling for 300$ US. Having this piece of armor didn't really make or break the game for me. I could do without it so I decided to give ebay a whirl.
I sold the piece of armor for 300$US and at that moment decided
Re:Hey assclown (Score:2)
$250? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:$250? (Score:3, Interesting)
No kidding. A few years ago (2?) some kids made like $30,000 one summer by doing item runs in Diablo II, and then auctioning off the items on eBay. Back then the expansion pack was brand new, and dupes were few and far between. An unidentified Windforce, Harlequin Crest, Grandfather, etc, would go for $300+. Accounts full of good items would go for thousands, IIRC.
These kids, aged 19 and 20, had
e-bay (Score:5, Interesting)
shame on you guys... (Score:5, Funny)
The question shouldn't be: "Will Sony/Verant shut down SWG auctions, like they did the EverQuest Auctions?" The question should be did you guys get permission to use the name Sony/Verant.
This World or That One (Score:2)
Against eBay policy (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Against eBay policy (Score:4, Funny)
ebay: that's not real
player: huh? what are you talking about? Not Real? Psh. If i have this, i can rawk the world.
ebay: but it's not a real world either
player: YOU'RE LYING. YOU BAD BLASPHEMOUS MEANIE HEAD
Re:Against eBay policy (Score:3, Funny)
try arguing that to someone who "LIVES" in one of these non-tangible worlds.
Well, in that case, eBay can always "SEND" some of their level-999 minions over and "KILL" the player, thereby rendering the problem "MOOT".
Re:Against eBay policy (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Against eBay policy (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Against eBay policy (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Against eBay policy (Score:2)
I guess if someones mind works that way then all they need to do is get one person to bite and their night is made.
Re:Against eBay policy (Score:2)
eBay will end that kind of auction too, if people notify their rules department about it. Giving away a bootleg is still illegal.
Re:Against eBay policy (Score:2, Interesting)
Not necessarily.
Giving away a bootleg absent persmission from the copyright holder is a technical violation of the U.S. Code. It's not a crime, but a minor infraction and a tort against the copyright holder. (You need to get to a rather large scale for criminal copyright behavior. I could make and give away two copies of everything I own and not be criminal.)
A good bootleg of a band that authorizes the trading and selling of bootlegs is exactly the sort of thing
Apparently not ;) (Score:2)
Re:Against eBay policy (Score:2)
Whatever that means. Is a book nontangible? The paper is worthless. Or perhaps I can sell the Star Wars items under the AUP if I burn them to $0.10 CDR first?
Re:Easy way around this. (Score:2, Insightful)
"Here, pay $500,000 for this cardboard box and I'll throw a kidney inside it as a bonus."
This is still besides the fact that eBay is a privately owned company, not a public service, and it is at their sole discretion what is and is not a violation of their AUP. You're not going to lawyer your way out of it.
Re:Easy way around this. (Score:2)
It's not privately owned, it's publicly traded: http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=ebay [yahoo.com] And yes, there is a big difference.
You know... (Score:5, Interesting)
Sure, buying property in UO makes sense, because property is scarce. But in SWG or SB, you can still earn things. So go earn things, and feel good about them; not like you merely bought them.
Re:You know... (Score:3, Insightful)
but to some
having more in game stuff leads to a more valuable game experience, ie more fun
to them, it is worth RL money...
they dont really play for a sense of life achievement, its a game made to entertain
Re:You know... (Score:5, Informative)
If you are a casual player and do not spend enormous amounts of time it can create a higher cost over time. Especially when a player is still feeling out a world, mechanics and general leveling practices.
If it takes several months to fully flesh out and develope a character those monthly fees can add up. However, if you immediatley purchase an experienced character you have bypassed months of treadmill activity.
Remembering, earnings are based on player time and skill level. Thus, someone else with enough effort could generate a feasibly well rounded character in a shorter period of time.
It is however a difficult matter to debate whether or not removing this treadmill playing time will harm the providers funds. Players may or may not stay with the game longer.
Re:You know... (Score:2)
Wouldn't that pretty much remove the entire game? I mean, MMORPGs are chatrooms with a levelling treadmill underneath. Take away the treadmill and you have a nice, graphical IRC channel.
Re:You know... (Score:4, Interesting)
A lot of people just don't find the low-level stuff fun. I agree that it defeats some of the purpose, but it certainly doesn't defeat all of the purpose. It's sort of like the grown-up version of getting a friend to pass the pain in the butt license tests for you in the Gran Turisimo games so you can get to the real racing. Yeah, money's now a factor, but then again you've also scaled up the time investment it takes to kick off the character.
Personally, the only thing that would tempt me would be a character account with the Jedi slot open. I'd feel a bit dirty about skipping over all the effort required to open the character slot, but since it's an account-level attribute rather than a character-level attribute, I could still rationalize it. However, I doubt I'd be willing to pay anywhere near what the asking price for those things will be.
Skip the grunt work (Score:5, Insightful)
If people want to purchase a pre-leveled character and skip the grunt work (let's be honest... you're just doing it to get a higher-level character and the fun/freedom that comes with that character), then why not?
Personally, my time is valuable... I'd be a bloody fool to spend hours scraping up experience points in an online world. If there's someone who has more time on their hands, and they are willing to sell it that cheaply, then bully for them. If I am willing to spend real world dollars for their time, then good on me.
Enjoyment comes in all shapes and sizes... if someone wants to spend dollars for it, then somebody will fill that market.
I wouldn't do it... those kind of online games are not my thing. However, I can see there from here. Yes, I know money theoretically shouldn't provide an advantage, but all online worlds have to have SOME resemblance to the real world in them... this is perfect. What real-world element could be more appropriate than this "golden rule?" (ie. the one with the gold makes the rules)
There aren't any orcs in Galaxies! (Score:2, Funny)
You have no idea of what you speak (Score:5, Insightful)
It's *fun* to be scared of those little orcs at first.
It's fun when you can first start killing them.
It's fun to reduce killing them to a methodical science (shortly before you move on to killing trolls).
And it's the most fun to return to a dungeon that used to have you twitching in fear and be able to walk through it with orcs bouncing off you like spitballs.
Someone who buys a high level character misses this experience entirely. The spitball effect is only truly rewarding when you remember being scared of those things 2 months ago.
I'm not against player auctions by any means. Different strokes and all, but you are completely missing a huge part of the appeal of MMOG's.
Furthermore, there's a huge skill component gained in levelling your own character. Back in the EQ beta days, a brother of the CEO (kelly Flock) and a friend of his came through Runnyeye decked out in top notch gear.
They were a disaster. They had no idea what they were doing, fell off ledges, got surrounded by goblins that they would have been able to handle easily if fought properly, and ended up dead. We were a few levels lower than they were, relatively poorly equipped, and helped them get their corpses if memory serves.
It's like giving a 10 year old boy an M1 Abrams tank. They just don't do well.
Disclaimer: I am not a treadmill player kicking Innoruuk's head around at level 60. I bailed out at level 28. I think the treadmill gets far too flat at the upper levels of EQ.
Re:You have no idea of what you speak (Score:2, Funny)
It's the economy stupid. (Score:2)
Saving 200 hours of my time is well worth $250. $250 at the end of the semester for beer is well worth it for the college student. Everyone wins.
Note: Hourly wage inflated to protect my ego.
The short answer: (Score:3, Interesting)
(Lucas Arts is even more of a control freak than Sony.)
Re:The short answer: Not as simple as that (Score:5, Interesting)
Actually, this is a bit of a dilemma for Lucas Arts.
I was at this year's Game Developer's Conference in San Jose listening to Raph Koster (the Creative Director of SWG) during a full ballroom packed presentation he gave on designing and running MMPORGs.
He was wearing two hats during the presentation: With his corporate business hat on he said (something to the effect) "eBay is very bad and it is against the terms of service and all violators will be prosecuted" then with the developers hat he said (stte) "eBay is vey good and will tell you how well your game's economy is doing and you should watch it religously."
Basically, all the MMORPG devs use eBay to see the going rate for different virtual property thereby having one extremelly good metric for the health of their game's economy.
One example Raph gave was when one particular monthly update for Everquest(?) caused the exchange rate of in game currency to US dollars on eBay to plummet. This was a very good indication they had really screwed the pooch with the update.
-)----- B
My memory is fuzzy so facts could be wrong. Raph has a web site where he discusses such things if you are really interested.
Re:The short answer: Not as simple as that (Score:2)
But how would they *know* if things are too high? Running logs only tell the what transactions occured. Now enter Ebay. If people are willing to pay $500 for 1 credit then the game obviously has a severe shortage of money. If 100M credits are going for $1 on Ebay then there is a glut of money in game. The challenging part left is to figure out what is the balance between real money and game money so that the game functions properly. My guess would be that it is a function b
Wow, Great site (Score:5, Funny)
Funny, Star Wars MMORGP just doesn't seem as important to me at the moment...
If they're smart... (Score:2)
RIAA?!?!?!?!!! Hello?!??!!!!!?!?!!!!
Re:If they're smart... (Score:2)
I expect them to eventually offer a service where for $100 - $150 or so they give you a fully levelled character with lots of good items.
Shutdown!? That's for pussies. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Shutdown!? That's for pussies. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Shutdown!? That's for pussies. (Score:5, Funny)
Who cares? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Who cares? (Score:2)
Seriously, if you go "mmm" at the idea of a little insignificant no one on the internet holding a vibrating thingy against her underwear while getting off on her boyfriend playing a game, all as a rather good marketing stunt, (Hey, it worked, that's for sure... poor taste but it worked!) then you've got some real issues.
Game Girl Advance: No original stuff, no real news, but I'm a girl so why should I bother with actual content when I can make my cheap site run good with a underwear shot?
Comment removed (Score:3, Interesting)
what they should implement (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:what they should implement (Score:5, Funny)
Re:what they should implement (Score:2)
*waves hand past sellers face* (Score:4, Funny)
Interesting... (Score:5, Interesting)
1) People who started playing SW:G are getting bored/annoyed by the bugs already, and are selling their accounts.
2) People started playing the game with the intention of investing a large amount of time to farm cash/items, and sell them.
In either case, this is interesting, it means either SW:G sucks, or there are some people who really need to go out and get jobs (I find it hard to believe that the cash that can be made from playing online games is a reasonable substitute for a paying job).
I've never really understood the people who buy items for use in an online game, surely if they don't have the time to invest to actually earn cash and items themselves, with the accompanying sense of achievement, it's not worth playing the game at all? As an ex-player of Ultima Online though, I can sympathise with some of the sellers. For example, I sold my account when I quit, which was easily enough to recoup the subscription fees I'd payed for playing. There seem to be no reasons why people would be selling accounts this early in the game though, except for those I described above, both of which are a little worrying.
Re:Interesting... (Score:5, Interesting)
People started playing the game with the intention of investing a large amount of time to farm cash/items, and sell them.
I bet a lot of people figured there would be an obsessive group of star wars fans who have to have everything and would be willing to pay for it. I've met some people who have sunk a lot of money into star wars stuff, so it wouldn't be a strech to think they would spend a lot for in-game items.
I wouldn't be surprised if a large number of the early players were 'professionals' who were just interested in selling off items and characters.
Maybe MMORPGs will become the next big speculative market. People will play a game when if first comes out not because they enjoy it, but because if it becomes popular they can sell their items and characters for a lot of money.
I'm surprised no one made a joke about SW:G auctioning "a foot."
Re:Interesting... (Score:2)
As an avid mmorpg loos^H^H^H^Hplayer, l'll explain (Score:5, Interesting)
1. Your casual player, just having fun. They extract their enjoyment from playing and figuring out quests, discovery, and exploration, and achievment within the confines of the game.
2. Your Ebay player. They have fun playing, but additionaly, the have fun from actually transfering the time they spend in game into real life money. Auctioning can be quite addicting, and the money can be quite good ... enough to offset the monthly price, cost of game, and typicaly all the upgrades to your computer to play the advanced ones.
3. Your automated player. These types I'm sure that the peeps (mmorpg slang for people) from /. understand, not only get their enjoyment from playing, ebay'ing, but also derive a certain snug satisfaction by "beating" the game somewhat. I mean creating elaborate unattended play scripts or macros for their toons (slang for their characters).
Now of course there are others, mostly variations of the above with different levels of dedication and interest.
Like, the "Corporations". Power gamers intent on making huge $$$ by selling items, money and toons from the game to those casual players who really have little hope or little time to get them through ordinary games means. These are peeps, few in number mostly, but share the common trait of having multiple computers and multiple accounts. They bludgeon their way to riches, then as the prices come down, they auction of thier toons on ebay and move on to the latest games.
Then of course there are the "outside devs", they are the ones that break the program, hack the packets and develope automated play tools, then sell access or subscriptions to the tools, occasionaly even offering and fufulling support.
Then, on to the 'Sploiters. The ones that don't really develope, but find and abuse and exploit bugs to their advantage. The mmorpg addage goes, exploit early and exploit often, because once discovered, they are quickly fixed. Typicaly with no punishment to those that abused.
All in all, each category is deriving fun and satisfaction from some aspect of the game. Even if it is an unattended aspect.
On to next topic ... It's a delicate balance that the mmorpg game developers and server and fees maintainers tread when they enforce their COC and license rules. Just like in real life, these are the Enforcers. They understand that a little bit of hanky panky is going to happen, they just don't want it rampant to the point were it hurts the name brand and the game itself. They also dont' want to come down too hard and chase off revenue. And they will chase off revenue if they do come down hard. The reason is, they are limiting the types of players to those of basicaly the worst sort ... the casual gamer who loses attention to the repetativeness of the game.
Anyway, before you go off knocking those who enjoy these games in the myriad of ways that they provide, look closely at what you do for your own personal entertainment. I havn't watched TV for over 5 years now. Have two top of the line computers, programming tools, and books all provided for by my hobby. I've met good people, bad people, learned certain aspects about myself (that I am inherently good and incapable of true evil), and I get to communicate with my children in a playfull and rich medium that these games provide, even though they live 1500 miles away.
MMORPGS are a sort of entertainment and therapy that perhaps most of you don't understand. I see nothing but positives with MMORPGS for the future. I see military training possibilities, I see Prisoner rehabilitation, advanced learning, and a whole new economy that is just in it's infant stage. 30 to 40 years from now who knows what value mmorpg will have been passed off to the next generation of young people. It may be that we'll all be living like thx1178 and our only real freedoms will be virtual freedoms, or it could be that we all spread out a bit and report into work every morning by logging into our work based mmorpg.
Re:As an avid mmorpg loos^H^H^H^Hplayer, l'll expl (Score:2, Funny)
Re:As an avid mmorpg loos^H^H^H^Hplayer, l'll expl (Score:2)
-Don
Sony/Verant should welcome this. (Score:5, Interesting)
The question is whether or not Sony/Verant wants these kinds of people to play their game. Even if they are just out for making bucks they should facilitate the sale of virtual goods/chars.
Then let's say they took a 3% commission off each sale they could make some extra cash while at the same time give people the assurance that their sale is authorized by Sony. This could cut down on people cheating others on virtual sales.
Why shut it down? (Score:2)
It only makes sense to me for them to keep it going. People pay to play to get paid and others who always have to be winners buy this stuff and play who would otherwise get frustrated and fed up and after a shot while not pay!
Was I the only one... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Was I the only one... (Score:2, Interesting)
For example people may think that water is the best thing ever since sex, but its pure abandance does not make it the most expensive resource.
The underlying value of the item depends more on the skill and time required to attain it. Those that require simple time investment will fall in price over time as more and more people spend time playing the game (That and MOST people
Let it be. (Score:2)
Any publicity is good publicity.
Missing a big point (Score:5, Interesting)
There have been weeks when game servers are virtually unplayable when some new hack comes out, and the script kiddies are rushing in to get the latest uber item and sell a few hundred on Ebay before the bottom of the market drops out.
Now, if you're not a gamer (and if not, why are you even reading this?
Whatever (Score:5, Insightful)
Hardcore MMORPG players: Willing to spend 2/3 of their waking lives playing a game that is largely clicking on a monster and then getting a few imaginary credits for said action.
Combine the two, and what did you expect? No matter how bad the game is (I personally think it's terrible, though I respect other opinions) people will:
A) play it
B) Spend REAL money to get imaginary status
Fools and their money, thats what i say. If sony was smart, instead of banning these sales all together, they would charge a 10% transaction fee.
I can't be the first to think of this (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:I can't be the first to think of this (Score:2)
The problem is (Score:5, Interesting)
Now while any group of people can still level up the normal way on Darktide you ended up with a guild of players that could go out and kill any group of players in the game. It ruined things for many who played there and before they came there was a thriving sense of certian guilds owning certain areas of the game. These guys ruined it. SO many left the game never to return.
This can happen to any game and I'm sure SOE/Lucas Arts do not want it to happen. And I applaud any gaming company efforts to stop this.
Also unlike the real world where money = class in the virtual world a poor kid can become very rich. What becomes unfair is Rich kids becoming very rich in the game becuase his pocketbook is supporting his character while the poor kid now has to struggle to maintain his level of fun/play against the more well to do kids.
You've got to be kidding me... (Score:3, Funny)
Poor kids should do what poor kids did to rich kids when I was growing up...
Beat them up and take their lunch money.
Re:The problem is (Score:2)
There is no FFA server on SWG yet, so this statement does not apply.
In the example you gave, the game was ruined becuase people were oppressed by a strong regime of players.
However, in SWG, if you are not an "overt" PvP player, no other player can kill you, and therefore PK griefing techniques are kept to a minimum for those players who choose to remain neutral or cover
Why This is Bad(tm) (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem is it weakens the game. Because now when you meet that High-Level Jedi master with the double-ended lightsabre, how do you know it's not just a newbie with a trust fund, who decided to take a crack at "that new star wars game" but didn't want to go through the effort of earning anything himself in SWG anymore than he does in real life?
It's better to keep the game world and the real world from spilling over into each other as far as resources and wealth, to maintain the internal consistency of the game world.
Why you are mistaken (Score:5, Insightful)
Holy Shit! (Score:2, Insightful)
Next youll tell me that hunting rats,hitting them twenty times with blasters, and running for twenty minutes at a time is Star Wars!
Re:Holy Shit! (Score:3, Interesting)
Only once I couldn't get on a server, and I've been playing since day 3.
Next youll tell me that hunting rats,hitting them twenty times with blasters, and running for twenty minutes at a time is Star Wars!
Last night the group I was in got jumped by some bandits on Corellia. Three of us stayed back and opened up with our blasters, while a fourth circled around and jumped them from behind. Then I went down and checked out their land speeder. Is that
They _have_ to shut it down... (Score:5, Insightful)
And what of theft? If you have $5,000 real-life worth of in-game items, and I kill your character, and steal them, could that consitute theft in real-life? Would they be liable for allowing that to happen in-game?
These are all questions they do not want to have to deal with. By taking the stand that they do not allow real-world selling of in-game assets, and by enforcing that stance by account deletion, etc, they are creating a legal barrier to prevent any of that from happening. If they turn a blind eye and allow the sales to continue, they are giving de facto approval, and thus allowing real-life value to be assigned to in-game items. I can't imagine any other action than them shutting down these sales.
The annoying part in all this is that we, as a society, have only ourselves to blame for ruining our own fun.
Re:They _have_ to shut it down... (Score:2)
Solve it in-game... (Score:2)
New funding model for MMOG's (Score:2)
Re:New funding model for MMOG's (Score:2, Informative)
It's a semi-massively multiplayer hotel where you can chat with other people. It's free, but to get furniture for your own rooms you have to pay.
Afoot? (Score:2)
Natural turn of events. (Score:2, Interesting)
This has happend with every MMORGP ever released. Items and characters themselves are a comodity and represent the time spent by players achieving them. The fact that they're sold does not,with-in itself, mean that players are bored, or that the game itself is boring or that G. Lucast is out to make money. This is simply players choosing what parts of the game they want to expirience and how.
No doubt the reason Sony is against these auctions is to reduce their lia
Advice to Sony: Enforce your rules! (Score:4, Insightful)
But under no circumstances should they do what Mythic has done to ruin Dark Age of Camelot: Ignore their own rules, let cheaters prosper, and destroy the integrity of the game, all for the sake of not losing accounts.
I spent countless hours leveling up with my own money and crafting my way to legendary, only to be undercut by people who used cheats to craft and obtain money, and level.
Mythic did NOTHING when handed damning evidence, because they'd lose accounts if they banned people. As a result, there's no point in playing for anyone or any purpose except your own damned skin. Thanks Mythic.
So Sony, do what you will. Just do it for real.
Here's a though: read the fscking article (Score:4, Insightful)
> "Most of the auctions are for credits (20k credits on Bria server, etc). Some are for buildings, or accounts."
What this highlights is that the in-game markets aren't working. If SOE provide better in-game fora for these transfers, they can nip this in the bud right now.
Of course, it's far more exciting to debate how stoooopid people are for paying $$$ for blasters. You can get back to doing that now.
A bit behind the times, eh? (Score:2, Interesting)
Wow... (Score:3, Interesting)
The main reason i won't play MMORPGs anymore. (Score:2, Interesting)
People who play MMORPGs are very interesting (Score:2)
I have noticed reciently that a vast majority of old school MMORPGers get there thrills from bitching and complaining about EVERYTHING. I have all but stopped reading the general message boards at the SOE site as its all ranting on various stupid crap.
I can honestly say that in the last two weeks of game play, I have not been effected by people s
Re:Help me!!! (Score:2)
Re:People are actually playing SWG? (Score:2)
Re:People are actually playing SWG? (Score:3, Informative)
I've been playing the game, it's actually quite fun. But then again, I also like doing crossword puzzles....so who knows if you would like it or not.
But, it's a hobby, like anyone else out there with a hobby.
While the content isn't there yet, the world is beautiful to explore, it's fun to interact with others there and I just like it.
Your mileage may vary.
Re:People are actually playing SWG? (Score:3, Funny)
I just got this mental image of someone screaming this at 5am with bloodshot eyes and hair all frazzled.
Re:People are actually playing SWG? (Score:2)
Yup. Sounds like SWG in a nutshell to me
Re:does it do anything? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:does it do anything? (Score:2)
In case one they happily make their monthly money as people play up to that level. The powers that be are happy because they get their check.
In case two, somebody that is probably trying to get out of the game is handing over stuff including a character with tons of time in it that would otherwise be deleted.
Re:Isn't this expected? (Score:2)
Re:Isn't this expected? (Score:2)
I'm making most of my money in-game by pirate hunting and light manufacture. As a specialty, I'm exploring for abandoned mining colonies and old wrecks - good places to find loot and tough pirates.
Maybe Verant should make a deal with the EVE developers, SWG has no shi
Because.... (Score:2)
Or they're just greedy bastards, one of the two.
Re:...so? (Score:2)
It goes a little something like this:
Auction Heading: Single most powerful weapon in game, usable by any class, any race, $500.
Player "IveGotTooMuchMoola" buys said weapon and goes to pick it up in game and finds that the seller has just handed him a rock - and not even a +1 Rock, just "a rock".
"IveGotTooMuchMoola" complains to the seller, and the seller responds by saying "hey, just take that to the top of [insert highest point in your favorite MMORPG
Re:losers... (Score:3, Insightful)
Some people work. You know that time consuming thingy which earns you money. Therefore some people have more money than time and don't want to spent hours upon hours running around and killing beginner level monsters just to be able to compete and do more interesting quests. Therefore they think its A Good Idea(TM) to pay some pimple faced geek who hasn't seen daylight in years for doing that no-fun stuff for them.
Money for invested tim