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PC Games (Games) Role Playing (Games) Entertainment Games

Incentive To Keep Playing MMORPGs? 56

Thanks to RPGDot for their opinion piece discussing why gamers would want to continue playing MMORPGs over long periods of time. The piece asks: "What is the best way to keep a player in an MMORPG? Reward their effort? Players will never have enough rewards to satisfy them for long periods of time. Remove all advancement limits? Players will complain that there is no goal. Reward their patience? Sure, but the gameplay has to be pretty engaging, if skills are gained through time instead of effort", but concludes without a definitive answer, begging the question - is there one?
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Incentive To Keep Playing MMORPGs?

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  • by ni4882 ( 584113 ) on Saturday August 23, 2003 @10:43AM (#6772953)
    Seriously, what IS the point of MMORPGs? Ultimately, people are going to get bored of doing repetitive tasks to increase their hitpoints and get nifty new gadgets. After seeing my college roomate get totally sucked into Ultima Online, I haven't been able to touch any game in the genre. There's a whole lot more out there in life to do then sit down and get a monitor tan while playing Evercrack. It's like all these people have to live their lives through their game character instead of going out and actually experiencing life.
    • Yeah... (Score:1, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Just like how all those people who are getting a monitor tan reading slashdot at noon need to get out and actually experience life.
  • like this (Score:5, Insightful)

    by August_zero ( 654282 ) on Saturday August 23, 2003 @10:49AM (#6772977)
    I think the first asheron's call had the right idea: create an epic storyline, with quests and events, and the base the outcomes on what the community does.

    For example, in AC1, there was a period during which these shadowy beings began to invade. over a couple of months, these creepy floating fortresses started appearing outside towns, strange new monsters appeared, and new dungeons opened up. Over the coming months, quests and events precedeing the resurection of a demon-god began to appear. Some players swore to help revive the god, and others tried to defend the shirnes and prevent it. One server actually held back the march of darkness most of the month but finally fell and the entire world was assaulted by this devil.

    I am simplfying it a lot but you get the idea. I had a lot of friends that started playing the game more than ever when this event was going on, and I think something like thisis the key to keeping your customers.

    The "sandbox model" in which players are just let loose in a static world to kill respawning mobs over and over isn't appealing to about 90% of the potential MMORPG players (that is anyone that plays RPGs) If they want to grab that market, they need to make the game as interesting as a brandnew epic RPG every month. "new content every month? that will cost a fortune!" you say. But I say "whoever figures out a way to do it without breaking the bank or hiking subscription costs will be the one that comes out on top"
    • But I say "whoever figures out a way to do it without breaking the bank or hiking subscription costs will be the one that comes out on top"

      I agree. The problem with the current market is that these games are too balanced and too static, and no developer will come close to taking a risk. They're all terrified that they'll only keep subscribers with predictability.

      I won't play an MMORPG again until I can have an effect on the world around me. I want to play a game with a giant war that can be won, no
      • by scrytch ( 9198 ) <chuck@myrealbox.com> on Saturday August 23, 2003 @03:00PM (#6774199)
        I won't play an MMORPG again until I can have an effect on the world around me. ... I want the potential to not just rally and lead a clan, but to storm the castle or incite a coup!

        I won't play a MMORPG until the rallying cry sounds something different than "SCHLONGMASTERS GUILD RALLY NOW, PHAT L00T @ SPAWN 153.62. NO ONE < LEV20, FUKN NEWBS"

    • Re:like this (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Jerf ( 17166 )
      I can see how to do this, technically, I think. It's not easy and would require easily two or three years with a qualified team, and some serious training for the seed content creators, but it could be done. The good news is that a lot of the work would be surprisingly generic, and in the end, you'd have a framework for such games that you could plug into a lot of genres. Plus the end result would mean that the content creators, like I said, would be seed creators; they would not need to specify every last
    • I have only known muds to do something like AC1 where you can have some sort of effect in the game. The only problem is it takes people in the game with the power to change what is going on. In Gemstone 3, there are invasions all the time. One GM actualy burned down parts of one town and they rebuilt it slowly over time. There is no ending to the game, but the GM's create a story line which you can interact in. Most MMORPG's lack any sort of interaction besides of pre-written, never-changing quests.
    • I'll agree that AC 1 had the best model for keeping people involved. Unfortunately, Turbine proved themselves incapable of fixing annoying client problems, such as portal noise (hearing town chatter from where you portaled in long after you ran far away from the town you portaled into) Hard crashes, inevitably resulting in death where you were virtually guaranteed to lose everythign on your corpse, there were others.

      The sad thing is that they managed to KEEP the worst bugs for AC2. I played AC1 on Frostfel
    • This sort of thing is one of CCP's goals with EVE Online - They have a storyline with various events planned to (apparently) 2+ years out from now.

      Things are kind of light on the content/events side at the moment since CCP is working on fleshing out lots of post-release bugs, but as the game shapes up and gets more stable, CCP has started kicking off occasional events and content, which should start becoming more frequent over the next months.
  • by ArmorFiend ( 151674 ) on Saturday August 23, 2003 @10:50AM (#6772980) Homepage Journal
    If your players stop playing your game, they have to reformat their brains to stop thinking about it. They have to deal with everyday life, which is annoying, because they've been neglecting it for so long. Thus you don't have to try very hard to keep them in the game, they want to stay in.
  • In My Experience... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by AngryLogic ( 687014 ) on Saturday August 23, 2003 @11:00AM (#6773023)
    I don't think that the developer of these games really needs to plan something special for the long-term players as long as they make all your achivements scalible.

    Now I have never played Lineage myself but from what I've read about it this is a good example of game that has such a scale. Once you have gotten a strong character you still have other things too look forward to, mostly Guilds. Once you have found a guild you can build your guild and capture castles.

    Now these high up players may eventually own one of these castles but this still gives them many things to do; for example they must defend their castle, they must manage it, and perhaps they eventually get bored with this and go to capture a second castle?

    Games should not have a definete ending for the players. The best online games I've seen are the ones that let the players fight against each other and put in balances so that no one power can ever overwhelm another.

  • How about any game? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by cniemira ( 558347 )
    Why is there a difference between an online game an and offline one? Build a game system or engine in which you can run different story lines or "campaigns" if you will. If you release a game that can only ever be played one way, it'll get stale (something like HeroQuest, the boardgame, for example). People who game because they like gaming will come back for interesting story lines and different types of role playing and character interaction. People who want to live off selling items on ebay can do that
  • Real life? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 23, 2003 @11:12AM (#6773082)
    These questions could be the same as the ones to real life. What is the point of living? What is the point of going to work? Is there a goal? What is the goal? Yet numbers of people find life exceptionally fun, intriguing and worth living.

    Like previously mentioned, content is a wonderful, albeit expensive way, to keep people interest, coming back, and enjoying their online lives. But then, that's like reading a book. The game, like mentioned, has to be interactive. I believe this needs to be taken a full step further, to full interactivity.

    MMORPGs can allow people to become things they can't be in real life (like real jackals :P). It allows them to make choices without guilt or consequence. An MMORPG needs to have such a wide set of goals and choices to get to those goals, that a person's insatiable, psychologically proven, need for more more more takes over. The status quo is never good enough for people when there's an option.

    Another invention into interactivity is communication. Letting people interact with each other in brand new ways. I personally can't wait until they reach such a level that most any act is possible, that there is a graphical version of /emote. Right now, people are too limited.

    The final thing, which is hard to balance between no consequence, is risk. There has to be some risk of loss. A game is no fun if it's too easy. There have to be ways you can end up where you began, with only the experience you've gained (RL kind, not ingame kind :P) still with you. I once knew a guy who proclaimed to be a video game fanatic. He didn't play many games. The reason? He owned a business, and that was the same kind of high to a whole new level.

    Games need to emulate the openness of life without the consequences. They can be a person's release from the govt., from taxes, from the DMCA, from weird slashdot modders modding their great posts offtopic, from horrible cubicle life, from anything that has to exist in real life but they can't stand.

    Is all this possible? No. You can't code life, yet. But you can make damn sure you come close, and if you do, people will want to escape into your world.
  • by WolfWithoutAClause ( 162946 ) on Saturday August 23, 2003 @11:17AM (#6773102) Homepage
    Then:

    a) the person that discovers it will become very wealthy for a while

    b) everyone will be playing the game and not working/farming/eating/reproducing and the human race will die out!

    So if anyone knows the answer- do your duty to mankind and keep your mouth shut! Being very rich doesn't help if there's no food to buy, and no babes/bros to impress!

    • No, you miss out on the bigger picture. After a while stop charging money, ask the users to do "favours" such as farming, manufacturing, etc in exchange for game time. In fact, make these "favours" a part of the game! If they farm wheat and bake some bread, their character gets food. If they help you manufacture guns (as your unholy army will need them), their character will get weapons. When they help build a temple in your honor, their characters will gain magical powers. ...and with wearable computers, t

  • by agentk ( 74906 ) on Saturday August 23, 2003 @11:21AM (#6773122)
    The best thing, IMO, is to let players start running their own worlds/servers at some point. The company could even move on to something else, and just keep selling client software (or not). It could even move into the new world of independent servers and sell game items and services, or contract tools and services to the people running independent servers. (On the other hand, maybe they would just be putting themselves out of business, I don't know :)

    This is generally where I'd like to see online gaming/entertainment go, maybe a mixture of free and commercial software, but with low barriers on people who want to run servers. This is how the Web happened :)

    reed

    • Another idea, if you just want to keep players, is to allow very high level players become gods, and they can help run the game, and add to it.

      • I play a game like that, although the graphics are very retro(mostly because it's hard to find graphic artists that play these sorts of games), and after a year of playing it I managed to make it to the dev levels(of which there are almost as many as regular player levels).

        What's really sweet is, after you get up a few levels, you get a realtime python interpreter, so if I want to make up stuff on the fly, I can. There's nothing cooler than casting a spell by literally making it up as you go along, althou
    • The thing is, the current centralized server model lets the game companies enforce a form of copy protection that really works. I'd venture to say it's one of the only successful forms of copy protection (DRM) ever implemented, or likely to ever be implemented. (Even dongles can be copied)

      I doubt they will be happy to give up this system, unless they can safely say they are missing out on something huge by sticking to it.
  • Depends... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by NetDanzr ( 619387 ) on Saturday August 23, 2003 @11:53AM (#6773285)
    ...on how you define the main purpose of a MMORPG. Lately, I have found that many prople think that playing MMORPG is work. They labor hard to get to a certain point - either reputation-wise, or to get to a certain level, kill the key monster or complete a key quest.

    However, I argue that the main purpose of those games is still to have fun. Back in the days of MUDs, we were really roleplaying. I really was Ishap, the bastard son of a knight and on my way to become an evil paladin (my orcish half didn't allow me otherwise). However, those were times when only the truly dedicated people played on-line roleplaying games. Now you have all those casual gamers who are more interested talking about the Palestinian conflict or the newest comic hero hitting the big screen than playing the game, and most MMORPGs became glorified chat rooms.

    I personally feel that there is no way to rescue MMORPGs. They will never become engaging enough for people to keep playing. Hardcore gamers will still use MUDs for their out-of-this-world experience, and the rest will keep chatting in Everquest and other games. Game designers may make these games more engrossing by creating a linear storyline on a mass scale. Sony had the chance to do so with Star Wars Galaxies - they could've written a script for the next three real-time years of the game, which would include plenty of hard-coded events that would push the gamer forward. For example, an attack on a planet would send all gamers from there to other planets, as refugees, forcing them to start from scratch (but with more experience already, making it easier to work themselves up in the new society). Or a rising status of a planet (new spaceport, for example) would increase job opportunities, tourism, etc. Players could vote to join the Republic or the Trade Federation or choose a despotic planet where the game designers would choose for them. To make a long story short, players would keep being entertained if there was a dynamic world. Instead, all you get are very static worlds, where all the players can do is to join the queue to kill another monster or clean 100 bowls to achieve a higher level as a potential cook.

    • Re:Depends... (Score:1, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      I completely agree with you.

      I'd add, however, that the way out of this may be to abandon the centralized server-client model of current MMORPGs.

      I think I saw two of the most disappointing CRPG releases this year--disappointing only because they both were excellent games that could have been even more tremendous if they had what the other lacked: Neverwinter Nights and Morrowind. Neverwinter Nights is a great game because of the emphasis on community module design, Morrowind because of the depth of charact
      • Re:Depends... (Score:3, Interesting)

        by NetDanzr ( 619387 )
        That's an excellent idea! I'm not familiar with NWN (mainly because I'm not fond of 3rd person RPGs), but I'm an avid Morrowind player. Even now, after 15 months of having the game, I keep playing new adventures, coutresy of the role-playing community. In fact, with the exception of the two Morrowind expansions and Arx Fatalis I didn't play any RPG since June of 2002, and I don't need to. In a sense, Morrowind is more a community-based game than the current MMORPGs can ever be (especially if you conside
  • by Blackwulf ( 34848 ) on Saturday August 23, 2003 @11:53AM (#6773289) Homepage
    I don't play a game for a long period of time. Maybe for a week or two or three, then it goes on my shelf - and even during that time I'm playing it, maybe only for like an hour or two a day, if at all.

    However, I played EverQuest for about two years religiously, and have been playing SWG for the past two months almost 3-4 hours a night, and I don't see that stopping any time soon.

    Why?

    Because of the community of people I play the game WITH. THAT is my incentive. If I didn't have the people in the player city [vagabondsrest.com] I'm in to play with, I probably would have dropped SWG about a month ago. But, I've found a great group of people (met them in EQ back in 1999) to latch on to and to play the game WITH, and THAT has given the three MMOG's I've been with them in (EQ, AO, SWG) the desire to keep coming back. I stuck it out in AO for 6 months during it's launch phase because of the people I was playing with, instead of throwing it away the first week like many others did.

    These games are social, and if you tap into the right social buttons, then you will come back for more and more. These days, I hardly find myself doing anything to advance any of my exp bars (I'm already a Master Musician and Master Entertainer, and the Entertainer skill set is primarily a SOCIAL one...see the correlation?) but I am hanging around our city and other cantinas to be social with others.

    Heck, we just moved our city to a better location, and it looks like a city now. There's streets and intersections, and people in those intersections...It feels like home. Only a great group of players can pull that off.
  • PVP (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Kethinov ( 636034 ) on Saturday August 23, 2003 @11:59AM (#6773311) Homepage Journal
    PVP in MMORPGs has always been a niche culture, but no MMORPG has stepped up and snagged that niche and made it its own. UO did that for a while in it's first two years (especially before their first expansion) but there's no trace of that left. Planetside tried hard to snag the PVP niche but failed miserably due to the fact that all Planetside is is another Everquest where your target isn't a mob, it's another group of people. This is PVP but it's not the kind of PVP I'm talking about. In an ideal MMORPG, you have the same casual atmosphere where PVP isn't 100% required. You still have some incentive to fight monsters in dungeons. But the focus of the game is 1v1 to 5v5 pvp. No massive scale stuff only small groups.

    But my opinion is bias because my ideal PVP situation would simply be the early days of UO when the level treadmill meant nothing because you could script yourself a nice macro to max your characters in a week, then go out and kill everything in sight. Sure you have your overwhelming influx of people who will complain about PKers and macroers, but if an MMORPG came out that encouraged this kind of behavior, the complainers would simply be told to stfu and find a new game.
    • Re:PVP (Score:1, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      , but if an MMORPG came out that encouraged this kind of behavior, the complainers would simply be told to stfu and find a new game

      Did you read the question? how do you keep players not drive them off in droves. You are hitting on one of the problems though.

      People have different tastes, and people don't all want a challenge, challenge being the important element. A lot of people play EQ for super-human lengths of time. I can not, there is nothing that keeps my interest that long with the game but for
      • Did you read the question?

        Did you read my post?

        The problem is that beating on other people, is the same thing as beating on faceless mobs when you really get down to it.

        Wrong wrong wrong. The reason the hardcore PVPers (such as myself) left UO a long time ago is because they have defaced what PVP meant to us. It's not mindless monster killing but full of skill and human interaction. You kill people, you loot them, they reequip and kill you, and before you know it you've made a new friend.

        the giant care

  • Wanna know how they REALLY get people to stay? Read this [nickyee.com] and see how MMORPGs are like Skinner Boxes. You don't need to do much to hook people....and after that they'll stay on their own. Psychological addiction is so insidious.

    • Thanks for the link. I've been looking for something on the reward schedules of MMORPG's. I've always thought that Everquest was based upon a gambling reward system, which is why I quit it from sheer boredom.

      Nothing bores me more than gambling. I once went to a casino and bought ten dollars in quarters for a slot machine. I couldn't wait for the quarters to run out...in fact, I was slightly annoyed when it gave me back a few more (although I would have been quite happy if it had dropped twenty dollars in q
  • Roleplay (Score:3, Insightful)

    by nege ( 263655 ) on Saturday August 23, 2003 @12:44PM (#6773525) Journal
    Of course there is a way...the social atmosphere.

    Think about it..what is the difference between an MMORPG, and a game you play on your console at home? The thounsands of other people that make up the "world" you play in online combined with the immersive experience of playing in that world. That is what should be a MAIN attraction in online gaming. Of course, the content provider cannot dictate the quality of those playing the game, but they can help with:

    *Limitless ammounts of clothing and items to make you unique in a crowded world
    *Countless communication options (from chat, to emotes, etc) to allow for meaningful conversation and roleplay.

    Of course there is always a tactical and gameplay component to these games, and to some this is the only reason for playing. But that will not keep people coming back alone, or else you are out of the game as soon as a better action packed game comes along, or the current one gets old (and it will sometime).

    In my opinion, the social atmosphere is the only reason to continue to play MMORPGs for an extended period of time. I think many roleplayers would agree!
  • by Qzukk ( 229616 ) on Saturday August 23, 2003 @12:55PM (#6773585) Journal
    I've been thinking about this for a bit. Probably the number 1 reason I kept playing the MUD I was on in college, was because of the player-run quests. Anyone could take some time to prepare a quest, though the quests prepared by the heros and immortals tended to be more interesting and have better rewards since they could create special items and mobs. (Mortal quests typically tended to be quizzes or hide-and-seek games for random spare equipment)

    In other words, player-generated content allowed the MUD to sustain its popularity. In the MMORPG world, it seems that many of the attempts to give players such "powers" have backfired, usually due to disgruntled players.

    So I've been thinking... what if the game had "quest points". These could be earned by participating in a quest (not just by "winning" the quest, players would quickly tire). Players could then use these quest points in one of two ways.

    First: expend quest points to create a quest of their own. Use a fairly high starting cost to make sure that players doing this have participated in enough quests to understand what they are doing in running one. That gets the player setup with a basic gofer quest (unique item is dropped somewhere in a given dungeon, find the item and win). More points can be spent to get special items created, special monsters created, or for enough points, a major plot inserted. (All of these are created by the player, and perhaps edited by the staff). Some restriction should be in place on # of simultaneous quests.

    Second: after participating in a quest, a player can choose to donate quest points back to the player who created the quest. This will create a feedback system and allow the popular creators to host quests more often. To prevent people from hoarding quest points, establish limits where if they don't donate quest points to hosts, they will receive fewer and fewer points.

    You could use donated quest points to establish a ranking scheme, where "newbie" hosts can only create certain types of quests until enough people have donated points to them for them to try for bigger quests.

    Aside from this idea... the "Hero" idea from my MUD was pretty good incentive to keep playing and exploring. When you reached a high enough level you became a Hero and were given a few extra powers. However, as you gained levels, monsters would give less and less XP, discouraging people from fighting forever in one place, and requiring them to explore the area to learn more about it.
  • Keeping players is very important if server/game owners can't find new ones. I have no incentive to play an MMORPG. I'm not sure which one to try or how much network bandwith it uses; it seems too expensive; it probably requires Microsoft Windows; I probably don't have time to play, as I browse Slashdot too much...

  • Make a game with good gameplay. You shouldn't need to bribe people to play your stinking game.
  • Bragging rights.

    Its like when you were the first person to get a SNES on the block, you ran out into the street and shouted out "Yes!!" (ok so maybe you didn't but you get the idea.) But if you look, relatively, closely at MMO communities there are always a few players who get put down in that game's history as "first person to reach the highest level", "first person to kill X uber-monster" or "X player who owns the largest and most valuable house". Or something along those lines.

  • The biggest thing I have to say is that you should do a little dividing of the playing field.

    For power gamer types, you can have a really difficult server where they will find many more people just like them. They will have no restrictions on how much they can play or do, but getting to the top will take tons of effort and time.

    For more casual gamers, the kind that may get frustrated by how much time and effort it takes to do anything (WHAT?? I have to kill 300 Rats to get to level 2????), you should ha
  • There's certainly more than one way about it. You could...

    Encourage players to build. That element keeps people around on MUDs, and also explains why some people actually still play Quake 1!

    Constantly revise. Even if players aren't building, the developer/admin can do little things to keep the challenges up. I could cite Diablo II here. I was burned out on it until I started playing with the 1.10s patch. The synergy bonuses really changed my approach to how I build my chars in the game.

    Community! That's

  • The solution is obvious but probably quite hard to implement. Let's look at some of the common misconceptions that the various existing MMORPGs have about what is needed in a game.

    Was it ever the graphics? The elitist in me wants to say "No", but that's not really true. The better looking the game the more likely I was to give it a try. However if a friend says "It sux like Gigli" I wouldn't buy it. Similarly if a friend recommended a game with comparitively ugly graphics, I'd buy the game he recommended.
  • I dont agree with.. create an epic storyline to gather and keep players. The first rule I think is that the MMORPG game world should be big and diverse. In Anarchy Online, the world is huge, you keep walking forever, and there are so many levels, weapons, enemies etc you dont even know the tip of the iceberg. Basically you start out a street-level player doing small trade stuff and not even know the higher political level players. As you climb higher, you know too much about the game to pry yourself away or
  • The common thread in all the Massivly Multiplayer Online Games I've seen is the eternal promise that the next patch will solve all those pesky bugs that keep the game from being what it should be.

    The balance issue is not- "How can I keep my community balanced and viable?" or "Are my quests interesting and challenging enough to players?" or even "Do I have sufficiently easy/hard/numerous goals so that even the most dedicated players will always have a horizion to shoot for?"

    The issues at stake are "Which g
  • Keep it fresh , Keep it new.

  • There are so many things that keep players interested in playing MMORPGs, I'll start with the cooler ones and work back to the basics:

    1. An evolving epic story line: The assumption that MMORPGs are static is terribly flawed. There is no reason for MMORPGs to be static. A successful MMORPG will generate huge revenue, and some of this revenue should be employed for continual content production. In general this has failed in the marketplace, because of a lack of workable tools for content production, and a qu
  • ...horizontal (not vertical) character growth, dynamic worlds, and serious penalties for death.

    And in long... (please, hear me out)

    These hybridised D&D/Chainmail-based combat systems need to go. They were fine 30 years ago, for a couple guys crowded around a card table eating pizza and drinking beer, with a DM who could change the rules on the fly. All current MMOGs do is show the limitations and oversights of such a system, especially when it's run under a DM as unforgiving as a computer.

    Take, for e
  • Any attempts to provide enough content to amuse enough people for any extended period of time is obviously doomed to economic failure.

    It's just so much harder to create original, inventive content than it is to enjoy it...

    Instead these companies should focus upon providing the base content, content creation tools, and infrastructure. Then enable and empower their users to create, alter, delete as they wish (in a controlled fashion - trust ratings and staff moderation).

    People are hard to amuse, but gen

  • Ultima X (Score:2, Interesting)

    by antin ( 185674 )
    I just read an article on Gamespy about Ultima X (a new MMO by the Ultima Online people) where after getting your character to a certain level, they basically ascend and become demi-beings, at which point you create a new character who is a disciple of your first, and who therefore gets some additional abilities right from the start.

    Once your second character ascends, you create a new disciple that gets special abilities from your first to characters, and so on...

    Sounds pretty neat to me - I have only pla
  • To each their own but if you sit and think about you come down with this.

    Every gamer wants to have fun in the game. Many MMO's still are basic treadmills just to level. In Asheron's Call I spent a lot of time on what we all called Coral Beach becuase the golems that spawned there gave the best XP. Of course it was the only one in the game so it was constantly fought over and macro'd.

    Asheron's Call 2 hit the nail on the head with advancement rates but they forgot to provide a endgame or high level conte

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