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PlayStation (Games) Entertainment Games

Do Consumers Want Original Games? 89

Posted by simoniker from the doom-and-gloom-the-new-black dept.
Thanks to GameCritics.com for their 'Critical Hit' editorial discussing if consumers are actually interested in buying groundbreaking/unique videogames. Giving the example of Sega's PS2/DC shooter, Rez, the author asks: "United Game Artists' answer to the cries of gamers looking for those new and original games was largely met with ambivalence by those very same gamers.... Why is Sega, or any publisher for that matter, obligated to support a game or games that no one is interested in?" The article concludes: "...how do you criticize the industry when it produces these games yet consumers repeatedly flock to the likes of Square's, Konami's and Capcom's sequels and rehashes?"
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Do Consumers Want Original Games? More

Do Consumers Want Original Games?

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  • Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Sunday August 24, 2003 @03:11PM (#6778666)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • Bullshit makes the grow and that's beautiful.

      Rez was one of the best games of recent years, who cares how original it was. It seemed fresh instead of stale, to most people that means the same as original.
    • It wasn't the gameplay, it was the music integrating with the gameplay that made it original in concept. It's not that is isn't original...it isn't THAT original.
    • BS! You may have played the game til the end, but you missed the point entirely. As did nearly everyone, probably including Sega themselves. Or, at least, their American arm. This game received zero marketing and publicity in the U.S. (I don't know about Japan)

      This game is an interactive work of art- I can't think of another game that even attempted this, let alone pulled it off as well as Rez.

      The graphics in the game are simply amazing. Based (loosly- think art + Tron) on the abstract [glyphs.com] stylings [glyphs.com] o

  • Simple (Score:5, Insightful)

    by AlexMax2742 ( 602517 ) on Sunday August 24, 2003 @03:11PM (#6778668)
    Who here had ever seen a commercial for Rez? What about a magazine ad (more than one time)?

    It's simply that it wasn't marketed enough. Ask almost any gamer what Rez is, and they will give you a dumbfounded look. This doesn't mean the game sucked, it means they didn't know about it. Not good. Yet look at all the ads for the dime-a-dozen games that you probably have played before in one way or another. See a difference?

    Ratings mean jack shit. It's the marketing that counts. Unfortuniatly, it seems more recently that the budget gets blown on games that suck. Hopefully, the industry will realize this in time and make a quick 180 and start marketing the truely innovative games.

    • Re:Simple (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Golias ( 176380 )
      Spending money on promotion is a wager. You are betting that the game will be accepted well enough to justify the money spent on advertising. Since most executives have no advanced sense of what consumers like (a perception often referred to as "taste"), they go for what they see as the safe bet, which is what consumers have bought before. This is why movies have sequels, TV shows have spin-offs, and game companies keep cranking out generic shooters with graphics and characters based on recent action blo
      • People have a perverted concept of risk. Risk is not inherently bad. Risk in game development is expected deviation in the value of future cash flows from their expected value. Rez might have been a flop, a moderately or even widely successful game. Calculate the expected sales. Ignore the unsystematic risk (risk related to this specific project that can be diversified by having a number of different games in development). Now you have an idea of what kind of profit this game will bring you. Spend on market
        • More likely is that the project was green-lighted by an executive who believed they knew how to sell it, and then management changed hands during the development phase, so the Powers That Be who had taken charge by the time the game was released didn't know what to do with it. Happens all the time.
      • I only know of Rez because someone sent me a link to this "interesting" article [gamegirladvance.com].
    • I don't know about you, but most games nowadays suck. Regardless of whether they're marketed or not - simply because most of the games with any sort of significant investment are heavily marketed. Then, on the other hand, companies don't bother marketing at all for games that they didn't put the initial money into designing.

      A good example of an industry gone awry is, I think, Freelancer. If any of you have played it, and are familiar with the classic, "Privateer", then I'm sure you see the similarity (that

  • Groundbreaking/Uniqueness Does Not A Good Game Mak (Score:3, Interesting)

    by vigilology ( 664683 ) on Sunday August 24, 2003 @03:22PM (#6778737)
    Gameplay does.

  • More of the same? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Decaffeinated Jedi ( 648571 ) on Sunday August 24, 2003 @03:24PM (#6778748) Homepage Journal
    I think Fry from Futurama put it best when he argued that people always wanted more of the same when it comes to entertainment, because "clever things make people feel stupid, and unexpected things make them feel scared."

    DecafJedi

  • Depends (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Kethinov ( 636034 ) on Sunday August 24, 2003 @03:26PM (#6778767) Homepage Journal
    Some consumers want original games, aka not morons. And some consumers will continue to pay for and eat up the majority of recycled crap over years and years and years; aka morons. Unfortunately the world is more populated with morons who eat up the recycled crap than the former, so video game companies will obviously manufacture games for the moronic majority. But every once in a while a true classic is born satisfying the non-morons.

    • Re:Depends (Score:5, Insightful)

      by BigDork1001 ( 683341 ) on Sunday August 24, 2003 @03:45PM (#6778828) Homepage
      "And some consumers will continue to pay for and eat up the majority of recycled crap over years and years and years; aka morons"

      So because I buy and play the different Mario games on the different Nintendo systems I'm a moron huh? I'm going to have to disagree with you. I'd say I'm not a moron, I just like a fun game. And sure Super Smash Bros. and Super Smash Bros. Melee are kind of the same thing but Melee added more characters and also improved upon the game play. Same can be said for the different Mario Kart games. While they are all basically race around a track as your favorite Nintendo characters the one for GC should be much improved ot the one for the SNES.On the other side of things I try original games when they look good and haven't gotten awful reviews. I enjoyed Pikmin which I consider to be pretty original for today's games.

      As long as it's a good game I'll play it. I don't care if it's a sequel, a remake or original just as long I have fun.

      • Re:Depends (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Kethinov ( 636034 )
        You misunderstand. Smash Bros and most other Nintendo made games do NOT factor into that equation. Nintendo is the minority console, so many if not most of its games are quality games; classics. But take a look at the hundreds of games for PS2. How many good ones can you name? Not many. You've got your FFX and besides that there's no real incentive to buy that console. On the other hand, me being someone who hates buying consoles finds it almost irresistable to resist the GC because of Metroid Prime, Windwa

        • Re:Depends (Score:2, Interesting)

          by Anonymous Coward
          Jesus you're a fucking retard....

          Nintendo is the minority console, so many if not most of its games are quality games; classics.

          How the fuck does this follow? If you're not popular, you must be good? Give me a fucking break.

          But take a look at the hundreds of games for PS2. How many good ones can you name? Not many. You've got your FFX and besides that there's no real incentive to buy that console.

          Oh Christ... as if FFX isn't the epitome of "recycled crap". What part of FFX is original? It's not

          • Actually FFX was quite original in it's execution. At least as far as I know, it's the first console RPG that ever combined real-time switching of characters with defined weaknesses (combination of the two, not each individually).

            Also, I've never seen a game that had something similar to BlitzBall, sure it was a bunch of concepts from other games thrown together, but you seem to be forgetting what original really means today. You'll never find a TRULY original game, you'll only find a game that takes sev

        • Re:Depends (Score:1, Troll)

          by Babbster ( 107076 )
          How many good PS2 games can I name? Quite a few, actually.

          SSX/Tricky
          Dragon Warrior VII
          Hot Shots Golf 3
          Monster Rancher 3
          Silent Hill 2/3
          Mark of Kri
          Sly Cooper
          Jak and Daxter
          GTA 3/Vice City
          Virtua Fighter 4/Evolution
          Dot.Hack
          Xenosaga
          Baldur's Gate:DA
          Gran Turismo 3
          Dynasty Warriors 2/3/4
          Devil May Cry

          Are you still here? I can go on if you need me to.

          I'll note too that a few of the above games I didn't care for myself but that doesn't change the fact that they are fundamentally quality games, and usually popular

        • "Nintendo is the minority console, so many if not most of its games are quality games; classics. But take a look at the hundreds of games for PS2. How many good ones can you name? Not many.""Why isn't the best console (GC) the most popular? Why is it in fact the least popular? Because people are morons and they need their filler games, not classics."

          Oh, when you put it that way I couldn't agree with you more. I definatly agree with your PS2 comment. Both the PS and the PS2 have hundreds of games that have

  • easy answer (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    the easy answer is NO. sure, we may say we want something new and groundbreaking, etc. but as is human nature, we'll stick to things that we know and understand. we'll play the same games we've played a hundred times over but in a slightly different form. we'll only take the new games once they've proven themselves to be worth the risk. and by that point they'll have spawned clones anyways.

  • Blame. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by August_zero ( 654282 ) on Sunday August 24, 2003 @03:45PM (#6778830)
    Part of the blame falls squarely on the retailers. Most of the giant chain stores like E.B. and Gamestop only want to carry games that they know are going to sell in droves. I know for a fact, that these chains give very little option to their individual stores; the stock at your local EB/Gamestop is decided by a corporate office based on what they classify the paticular store as ("PC store", "Used/pre-owned store" etc). How do they decide what to send?

    For A-list tiles like Wind Waker ort Soul Calibur, its a no brainer, they send tons of copies because they know its going to sell. But for games like Rez, or Ikaruga, or anyother non-mainstream game, they only bother to send copies if there are pre-sales and reserves. Which games get reserves? the titles that the company tells their staff to push, and what determines those games? The game companies that spend the most on store displays and advertising inside and outside the store. SO games like Rez already had 2 strikes against them from the get-go. Sega was hyping up thier A-list titles, and spent very little advertising Rez.

    A very large percentage of your consumers base their choices on their level of exposure to a given game. Example: Rez gets no advertising in the US prior to its release. The only people that even knew about the game are those that either imported it, or keep their eyes on the Japanese game market. It gets released, no stores stock more than 1 or 2 copies if any at all because nobody pre-purchased it, and those few copies that are out there get bought up by the small group that actuall wanted it. When people finally start hearing about the game, its nowhere to be found. Now EB/Gamestop looks at their sales figures and sees "Rez: 1000 units sold nationwide" which seems dismal unless you consider the fact that 1000 is the total number in the field, but this is still chump change to the 100000 copies of Wind Waker that got sold (warning: above numbers made up to illustrate point)

    • BS. (Score:2)

      by Inoshiro ( 71693 )
      EB, at least, tries to carry everything. Metropolis Mania, Magic Pengel, etc, all are on EB's shelf at some point or another. If you're smart enough to talk to the employees about what they're interested in that's coming out, you'll find out about these gems before hand, and be able to preorder them. Then you're guaranteed a copy.

      It's not magic, it's just a matter of listening to the people who live their games.

      The EB I frequent got about 5 copies of Magin Pengel, and were able to get 5 more easily eno

  • What good is mentioning Rez.... (Score:4, Funny)

    by Quantumprof ( 667880 ) on Sunday August 24, 2003 @03:49PM (#6778843)

    Without also mentioning that Rez Trance Vibrator [gamegirladvance.com] article.


    =)

  • data to back up his point (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    This article [curmudgeongamer.com] was in a similar Slashdot post a while back and is just about the GBA. It kind of backs up the GameCritics guy's point at the end that consumers are maybe just getting what they want. Sure that definition of "original" is kind of lame in the GBA article, but look at all that licensed crap! If the market is really giving people what they want, then they want stuff they've heard of before. So you get games based on Disney and Pokemon.

  • Let's take a look (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Iscariot_ ( 166362 ) on Sunday August 24, 2003 @03:50PM (#6778848)
    Here is a list of the best selling games of all time:
    1. "Super Mario Bros." for NES: 40 Million Units
    2. "Tetris" for Gameboy: 33 Million Units
    3. "Super Mario Bros. 3" for NES: 18 Million Units
    4. "Super Mario World" for SNES: 17 Million Units
    5. "Super Mario Land" for Gameboy: 14 Million Units
    6. "Super Mario 64" for N64: 11 Million Units
    7. "The Sims" for PC: 10 Million Units
    8. "Super Mario Bros. 2" for NES: 10 Million Units
    9. "Grand Theft Auto: Vice City" for PS2: 8.5 Million Units
    10. "Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone" for PSX: 8 Million Units
    11. "GoldenEye" for N64: 8 Million Units
    12. "Donkey Kong Country" for SNES: 8 Million Units
    13. "Super Mario Kart" for SNES: 8 Million Units
    14. "Pokemon Red/Blue" for Gameboy: 8 Million Units
    15. "Half-Life" for PC: 8 Million Units
    16. "Tomb Raider II" for PSX: 8 Million Units
    17. "Final Fantasy VII" for PSX: 7.8 Million Units
    18. "Myst" for PC: 7 Million Units
    19. "Gran Turismo 3" for PS2: 7 Million Units
    20. "Dragon Warrior VII" for PS2: 6 Million Units
    Of these twenty games, only four could really be considered "original" (imho). So based on this data I would conclude that most gamers do not want original content. They want improved versions of games they've already played.

    Now for my opinion.

    I don't think that it is necessary to make a game orignal solely for the sake of. Most of the games I own and regularly play these days are not original. However, eventually rehashes do become tired and old. Final Fantasy comes to mind. It has been a beautiful series that has taken many twists and turns. But, the last few iterations have been without innovation, simply substituting one battle system for another [similar] one. Eventually this series will die without radically changing direction. I know it is on the verge of losing my interest.

    Usually every year there is at least one good original title released. And, inevitably, it is copied until it is no longer unique. But for every one good original title (Grand Theft Auto III), there are dozen's of bad ones(Star Wars Rebellion). This is why innovation is not the most important thing in the world to the gaming industry. It's all about fun factor. Wether or not something is truely unique/original/whatever is not so relevant to wether or not it is fun.

    So I leave you with this. Half-life was not the first FPS, but it was (and perhaps still is) the most fun.
    • You and another post mention GTA III as an original game. What exactly does the III stand for again? The third in the series you say? Oh, hardly original then is it? There have been other games like it before. Drive around perform "missions".

      Perhaps I just put to much weight on the word original. But I expect it to mean slightly more then we added a tiny little extra. You have not invented a new food by adding a slice of ehm cucumber to a hamburger.

      As it is there are therefore precious few "original" gam

    • "Super Mario Bros." for NES: 40 Million Units
      "Tetris" for Gameboy: 33 Million Units

      Both of those were bundled with the system, so I think it's safe to say those numbers don't quite fit in with the rest. Even without bundling I think they would still be high on the list.
      • Neither game was bundled with every one of those systems sold (neither was available when the systems launched), but you're right in that they were bundled with a lot of the hardware.

        Super Mario Bros. 3 is the biggest selling title never bundled with the hardware according to this site:

        http://www.gamecubicle.com/features-mario-units_ so ld_sales.htm

        which also shows slightly different numbers for the Mario games (though SMB1 is still the same).
    • Just to be anal Dragon Warrior VII was for the basic playstation. Dragon Warrior VIII will be for the PS2 but has not been released yet.

  • Not a big surprise (Score:5, Insightful)

    by 0x0d0a ( 568518 ) on Sunday August 24, 2003 @03:54PM (#6778859) Journal
    Most of people that are complaining about a lack of original content are the extremely hard-core gamers and the reviewers. Why? Because they've played everything out there. They find more of the same boring.

    For the overwhelming majority of the population, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a game that adds nothing new to the genre. Nobody has time to keep up with the vast flood of game content being produced. If an idea's been done twenty times before and *you haven't played those*, why would you care?

    So...say Warcraft III comes out. Well, the game reviewers have played a ton of games like this one. They've played the earlier games in the series. They know exactly what's going to happen in it. Sure enough, they're bored. The typical game player *hasn't* played all these. He sits down and decides that he likes the game and plays it.

    Furthermore, there's a big dislike from many reviewers over clones of popular games. Why? Because they just *played* a flood of similar games. They end up writing reviews like "this is yet another unoriginal entry in the RTS field". The game may well be excellent, but it doesn't matter to them.

    It's just a sign of the vast disconnect between game reviewers and almost all game players.
    • Actually, I *still* haven't gotten over some genres that I think are fun but aren't produced much any more. Top-down shooters (1942ish ones) are fun, but not very common these days.
      • Go get Ikaruga for GameCube. Best shooter I've played in years, and it's top-down to boot. You have a control stick and three buttons, the gameplay is simple in description (shoot, dodge/block shots) but VERY difficult in practice.

        Best of all, you'll start cursing the game once you get to the high levels, it gets so hard.
        • Yeah, Ikaruga is neat, but it's really a different sort of game from what I'm talking about. The traditional top-down shooter has huge, crazy, powerupable weapons (Ikaruga you have your special weapon, but that's it). Also, Ikaruga is a bit too hard for me. It's a really tough game.
        • Correction: Ikaruga isn't a shooter. It's a puzzle game masquerading as a shooter.

          What color should I be? When should I switch? Which enemies should I kill to get the best/easiest chains? Where should I stay on the screen to be safe?

          I think it's an awesome game, but I honestly believe that it's more of a puzzle game than a shooter.

          --Jeremy
  • I found Grand Theft Auto III to be pretty good. And, i'd say it's fairly original. Granted, Vice City probably sold more, but leave that out of it.

  • Unique games and gameplay (Score:5, Insightful)

    by neostorm ( 462848 ) on Sunday August 24, 2003 @03:58PM (#6778879)
    A unique game can come in many different forms. Graphics, gameplay, or just a new franchise. That about says it all. Gamers want different "different" things, and it also greatly depends on their perspective. I'm a person who loves a good game full of experimental gameplay, or a new graphical appearance, but often times I could go for the same old fantasy RPG who's only unique feature is a new universe with characters I've never seen before. However I don't always understand what the developers were trying to do with a title, and I think it may be the same for many other people.

    Your first impression of a game is what nails you to your perspective. An example of this would be a control feature in the older Zelda: Ocarina that carried over to the later 3D Zelda games. At first glance you see a 3D platformer, but the first time you pick up the controller and learn there's no *jump* button, you're appalled. I hated it, I didn't understand, and until someone told me later that the developers wanted to create a more streamlined method of control that relied on less user input, I couldn't appreciate this unique take on 3D navigation.

    The same applies to most other games that break the mold. Some may pick up Rez and decide it's the worst shooter in the world (compared to space harrier or it's very similar gameplay cousin Panzer Dragoon) and hate it. But when they realize that the creators were trying to merge a sensory experience using sound, visuals and physical sensation, they find it possible to gain more appreciation for it, and become more open minded towards this unique experience.

    It's a state of mind that allows you to change your perspective, find an appreciation for what the game really *is*, instead of what you're expecting, and expectations are where most people lose their acceptance of experimentation in this medium.

    • "The same applies to most other games that break the mold. Some may pick up Rez and decide it's the worst shooter in the world (compared to space harrier or it's very similar gameplay cousin Panzer Dragoon) and hate it. But when they realize that the creators were trying to merge a sensory experience using sound, visuals and physical sensation, they find it possible to gain more appreciation for it, and become more open minded towards this unique experience."

      Hmm. What I saw in Rez was a lame attempt to cas

      • "All shooters are an unique sensory experience. The only difference between the "ordinary" shooters and Rez is that Rez is actively CLAIMING to be something they all are."

        This is true for that particular perspective, but that was exactly my point. Your preconceived notion that Rez is supposed to be a shooter on the same level as other shooters thrusts it into that category in your own subconscious, which dictates how you interpret the game.

        Whether Rez is the worst game ever created is totally irrelevant.
        • Neostorm: My preconceived notion was actually that Rez was what you perceived it to be - original.

          When I thought about it, I disagreed with that. Your original point was valid, though, and I agree with that. But that you took Rez as an example made me want to write that reply.

          Bottom line: we agree. On how we see the big picture.
    • Often times I could go for the same old fantasy RPG who's only unique feature is a new universe with characters I've never seen before.

      I have to agree with you here. I buy new versions of EA Sports' NHL series year after year -- sure there are a few new "features" but mostly it is the roster updates.

  • Rez & EB (Score:4, Interesting)

    by superultra ( 670002 ) on Sunday August 24, 2003 @04:31PM (#6779010) Homepage
    I was assistant managing an EB when REZ came out, and here's the exact lifespan of REZ: we received two copes in the day it was released. One, an employee bought. One of our regular customers bought the other copy. Within 5 days, the game had a "D" status in our POS, meaning that either it had been discontinued or EB had stopped restocking the stores from the warehouse for whatever reason. After a few calls to the home office on behalf of several stores in the district, we learned that Sega had stopped shipping REZ to retailers.

    Needless to say, REZ quickly became one of the most sought after preowned titles. Several of our regular customers that found copies at Blockbusters and what have you would excitedly tell the staff where to direct other customers to find the game. I have a hard time believing that within a period of 5 days Sega had already ascertained that it had not sold enough copies to justify shipping any more copies.

    But let's be honest. All the titles mentioned in Critical Hit are definitely not mainstream titles. Would they have sold better if the companies behind them pushed it? Possibly, but probably not. ICO had a very impressive marketing push behind it, including TV spots and several multi-monthly placements in major gaming magazines. It did not sell.

    Basically, the problem is that the game industry hasn't reached the point that films have in terms of possessing the general depth of field to allow a "indie games industry" so to speak. Moreover, the nature of the industry doesn't really lend itself to support lesser selling games like the film industry does. At the risk of sounding elitist, go glance at the REZ reviews in gamerankings, and I think you'll agree that most of the reviewers (some of whom compare REZ to the Blue Man Group - good god) just "didn't get." Finally, the game industry hasn't had a "Blair Witch" of sorts; that is to say that there hasn't been a surprise lower-budget hit to suddenly sell millions of copies.

    I think that in time we'll see the industry not only mature but logistically evolve enough to support a kind of arty-indy-sub-market. Until then? I guess these devs will struggle to get by; but isn't that always the plight of the underdog artist?

    • Re:Rez & EB (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Ondo ( 187980 )
      Finally, the game industry hasn't had a "Blair Witch" of sorts; that is to say that there hasn't been a surprise lower-budget hit to suddenly sell millions of copies.

      What about "Deer Hunter"? I don't know how many copies it sold, but it was the #1 selling PC game for some time.

    • Re:Rez & EB (Score:4, Insightful)

      by WaKall ( 461142 ) on Sunday August 24, 2003 @06:30PM (#6779650) Homepage
      I think you could argue Deus Ex (from Ion Storm) as a low-budget hit. It saved the studio, and nobody expected it to do well. And it was pretty original - an FPS that's not really a shooter.

      But seriously, if you want to see original games, you can't look to consoles. The licensing and publishing costs are basically fixed (except for per-unit costs), so only games that are expected to profit will be made. Only the big studios can afford to make original games without risking the company on it.

      The PC game market, on the other hand, can produce some original hits. You can do electronic distribution, don't pay a thing for licensing. You just need developers/artists and a business unit.
      • I think you could argue Deus Ex (from Ion Storm) as a low-budget hit. It saved the studio, and nobody expected it to do well. And it was pretty original - an FPS that's not really a shooter.

        Except that Deux Ex cost MILLIONS of dollars to create. It is not low-budget by any means.
  • How does one ask for something original?

    With the cost of building games so high no company is going to stick it's neck out and build something people may not like. One of two things has to happen . A new game idea must come up from below the radar, or a company must go looking for ideas .

    Both these things could happen if a company actively sponcered FOSS gameing. Put tools in the hands of FOSS programers. At first you would get lots of copy cat games. But from time to time something new might show up. Gra
  • I thought it was the job of the advertiser to point out what was needed.

  • Original? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by CashCarSTAR ( 548853 ) on Sunday August 24, 2003 @06:18PM (#6779586)
    Ha! I don't think so.

    Rez? Space Harrier? Panzer Dragoon?

    Ico? Maybe a bit of Zelda. Actually, what it reminded me of was Solstice for the NES. Old game

    Space Channel 5? Samba de Amigo? Don't make me laugh.

    Were these games complete knock offs? Of course not. They each added something new to their respective genre. Rez was lots of fun, the combination of the music with your surroundings was totally intense. Ico was a new style of game play, and the two rythem games had a sytle all their own.

    In the same way, GTA VC added a Noir style that was cool, Final Fantasy X had a very innovative Sphere Grid system. Mario Sunshine's water cannon added a lot of options.

    By their own nature, video games are rarely revolutionary. Even Animal Crossing has at its roots an RPG background.

    However, what we hopefully get is a series of evolutionary steps. Where games take established genres and add a twist to make them special. Style and twists. That is where the true creativity lies.

  • original doesn't always mean "good" (Score:5, Interesting)

    by MORTAR_COMBAT! ( 589963 ) on Sunday August 24, 2003 @06:43PM (#6779747)
    Some games are both original and good. An example of this would be Pikmin for the GameCube.

    Some games are just original. An example of this would be "Cubivore" for the GameCube. Very original and "interesting" but certainly not good.

    Some gamers care more about originality than others -- there are people who love "Cubivore" -- but in the end most of us just want good games. It's not a lifestyle, it's something to relax with friends with for a couple of hours or so.

    It's like abstract art -- some people like it just because it is "abstract", and others just want a decent picture to hang on the wall. Some abstract art is good and worth hanging. Other abstract works of art are "interesting" but in the end just plain "not good".

  • Sega (Score:3, Insightful)

    by dafoomie ( 521507 ) <dafoomie@hotmail ... m minus language> on Sunday August 24, 2003 @08:49PM (#6780517) Homepage
    Sega has made some original games. Jet Set Radio, Skies of Arcadia, Rez, Super Monkey Ball, Chu Chu Rocket, Crazy Taxi, Ooga Booga, Seaman, Samba de Amigo, Dance Dance Revolution, Sega Gaga (in Japan anyway). It's one of the reasons I'm a big Sega fan. But what do they get for it? Most of this stuff didn't sell. If you want original games, put your money where your mouth is and buy them. I don't blame developers for being very wary of making "original" games, because their fears of poor sales are well founded. Yes, Sega sucks when it comes to promoting games, but thats not the whole reason for poor sales.

    A game doesn't have to be original or unique to be a good game. A game can be totally unique and suck. But it's nice not to have the same damn thing over and over again.
    • When the HELL did Sega "make" Dance Dance Revolution? Yes, Konami released 2 editions for the Japanese Dreamcast, but never once did Sega MAKE Dance Dance Revolution. Christ.
      • Well I'm sorry Mr. I-Never-make-mistakes-when-trying-to-think-quickly -of-examples. It's not by Sega but it's still an original game. When the HELL did anyone appoint you God? Don't get your panties in a knot when people make mistakes.
    • Skies of Arcadia is hardly original. I just finished it last Thursday, and definitely enjoyed it, but it wasn't at all original.

      All throughout the game I kept thinking to myself, "I can't believe how much this reminds me of Final Fantasy 2, 3, and 7, all mixed together."

      The story: Collecting Crystals that are being stolen by an evil empire, but it turns out that the evil empire is actually just being manipulated by an uber-evil bad guy. Many other parallels (travel to moon in special ship/travel to ve
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  • Ignoring the fact that Rez isn't original, saying that consumers don't want any original games because one original game didn't do well is, well, stupid. As is painting all gamers with the same brush. I don't like FPS or RTS games. I like action RPGs, many styles of "old-skool arcade" games and stylised racing games. On top of that I collect old video games.

    I also have about 2,500 tracks worth of legitimate music (judging by what's on my iPod), but none of it is Country, Rap (except MC Hawking) or Opera

    • It wasn't just one game though, they listed many "original" games that preformed anywhere from "not too well" to "hole in the ground."

      But publishers _do_ ask what "Readers" want or what "Listeners" want. There have been many articles on slashdot complaining about the RIAA only releasing "top 40 crap," and if you go into a bookstore you'll find lots of copies of the latest bestsellers, but you'll be in trouble looking for a copy of an older well reviewed but not so well selling book.

      Sure they're not goin

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  • Originalilty? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by evilhayama ( 532217 ) <{evilhayama} {at} {gmail.com}> on Sunday August 24, 2003 @11:47PM (#6781447)
    The main contention with this article and the previous one about GBA games is that originality is just not that easy to define. Rez is a rail shooter. Ico is a 3rd person adventure, Space channel 5 and Frequency are rythmn games. You can compare everything made now to some game or other in the past. There are just levels of originality, with some games doing this better than others.

    It would be as useful to say there are no original novels out, everything is just a romance story, an adventure story, sci-fi, etc etc. Not every good story has been written, and not every good game has been made.
    • evilhayama wrote:

      ... originality is just not that easy to define. Rez is a rail shooter. Ico is a 3rd person adventure ...

      I think this is the difference between "original genre" and "original content". I would call most of those games original not because they play very different from existing games, but because they include original stories, artstyles, themes, and characters.

      Not every good story has been written, and not every good game has been made.

      I like how you (perhaps unintentionally?)

      • It was intentional, I think... I'm not a big fan of the story opening: You are woken up in a normal town by your mother/love interest. You decide to go on an adventure. Surely the waking up angle has been done to death already.

  • Gamers want fun games more then Original Games (Score:3, Insightful)

    by LordZardoz ( 155141 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @12:58AM (#6781683)
    There are two reasons why Original games (As in original game play AND original IP) are hard to find.

    1) Most Companies make games to turn a profit.
    2) Most Gamers play games to have fun.

    From a gamers standpoint, a truly Original game is a mystery. They cannot ask their friends if it is any good. They cannot say "This game is just like X" to help them make a decision. All they can really do is rent it, and risk being out the $5 dollars for the rental.

    And sure, if a game is truly excellent, it will do excellently and become a huge success. But that magnitude of success is rare. In the last 5 years, the only truly original game to take off that strongly is Pokemon. A strong "2nd Tier" Title like Super Monkey Ball will do ok as well, but it will take a while for it to become main stream accepted. In Monkey Balls case, it is only successful, I think, because the people who do like it, generally wont shut up about it to their friends. I have yet to meet someone who has played Monkey Ball say the game is terrible.

    A game that is just average will probably fade into oblivion, remembered by only a handful of enthusiasts. And only the most successful games will have a sequel made for them.

    END COMMUNICATION
  • Sure, Steel Battalion is a mech game, but it did something no other game did. Bundeled a massive joystick with it to ensure the end user had the experience the developers had intended. Capcom took a huge risk in developing this game, and it paid off. Controllers still go for above retail prices on eBay, and owners are waiting now for the sequel.

    Sure, not every new idea game is going to do well, but I applaud any company willing to try. Otherwise, the market would be even more stale then it is today.

    I
    • I also curse the companies not willing to take risks. Blizzard comes to mind here. Cancelling Warcraft Adventures (because Lucasarts showed a semi 3d adventure game)

      They didn't cancel Warcraft Adventures because of Lucasarts, they canceled it because it wasn't going to be a good game.
      • They didn't cancel Warcraft Adventures because of Lucasarts, they canceled it because it wasn't going to be a good game.

        An interview with Bill Roper [gamespot.com] tends to agree with me. He basicially admits it was too much of a classic adventure game, while Lucasarts was touting Monkey Island III and Grim Fandango, both being the "next level of adventure games". AKA, Lucasarts had some 3D in them, and of course 3D was the big buzzword back in that time period, so a 2D, but excellent looking adventure game aparently
  • Rez did not sell well because

    A) John Q. Casual Gamer has no taste in games
    B) John Q. Casual Gamer does not do his homework to find out about these games
    C) You do not see Rez commercials on MTV.

    Rez is quite possibly the best game on the PS2 and it sold like crap. Because of those reasons. Back in the day sell numbers tended to say something positive about the game itself. Now it just says something negetive about gamers in general.
    • I guess I'm John Q. Casual Gamer or somesuch. Before reading the GameGirlAdvance Article of Infamy, I hadn't heard of REZ at all (other than a really horrible lite metal band from the 80's).

      However, in doing some reading in relation to this aticle, it sounds like something I'd really enjoy.

      Then again, so does Vib Ribbon, but it isn't as though I can get that game without importing.

      The funny thing is that I did hear all about Space Channel 5 and was able to find that relatively easily. So maybe it isn't
  • One of the reason re-makes/updates/clones are so popular is that people know what they're getting for their money.

    I have a hard time going into the gaming store and plunking down my $$$ for a game I have barely (or not at all) heard of when I know I can buy the latest GTA or Warcraft or or or rather than an unkown which could be the best game ever or a complete waste of money. I'm not the only one.

    If you want me to buy something new, then you had better make sure I've had a chance to see the gameplay and
  • The consensus so far seems to be:

    - Advertising!

    - Importance of developing an indie games industry.

    - Originality doesn't mean the same thing as Good

    Each of these points is something I agree with overall, but there are problems with each of them.

    * I really think people are starting to rebel against advertising. I never get excited over an ad the way the execs hope I will, and although I still see other people say "Kick Ass!" when they see something like a trailer for something like Ecks vs. Sever, I th
  • There is no simply answer to this debate. However, I'd like to present an analogy to explain why that is.

    Combat Mission (www.battlefront.com). To those of you who aren't familiar with it Combat Mission (Beyond Overlord and Barbarossa to Berlin) are games that take the number crunching of a old-fashioned (but still good) hex style war-game and combine it with a RTS. This is new and original because you've either got massive scope war-games where the difference of life or death can rest on any number of f

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