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First Person Shooters (Games) PC Games (Games) Entertainment Games

Pro Gamers Can't Scrape By? 77

Posted by simoniker from the free-ferraris-a-one-time-thing dept.
An anonymous reader points to a Wired News article discussing the harsh nature of professional gaming. According to the piece, "Professional gaming is in its infancy, providing few players with the means to live without any other job. Still, the competition for those sponsorships is cutthroat." Even for the elite team covered in the article, there are issues: "Game Point lost in QuakeCon's Wolfenstein finals, which cut their prize money down to $12,000. It was disheartening for the team, particularly since five members said the time constraints necessary to maintain this high level would most likely force them to retire." So, is pro gaming really semi-pro gaming? A player points out: "If you work for eight months and you divide up your hours, the amount of money that you make is minimal."
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Pro Gamers Can't Scrape By? More

Pro Gamers Can't Scrape By?

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  • look... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 30, 2003 @12:56PM (#6833869)
    It was never ment to be made money on playing games, so don't whine when it doesn't.

  • professional gaming.. (Score:5, Funny)

    by Tirel ( 692085 ) on Saturday August 30, 2003 @12:57PM (#6833876)
    an oxymoron.

    • Are you on crack? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by metalhed77 ( 250273 ) <andrewvc&gmail,com> on Saturday August 30, 2003 @01:18PM (#6833990) Homepage
      What about the Olympic GAMES, or the X-Games, etc. Besides, what makes computer games any different than chess. There are professional chess players who live off it, its only inevitable that computer game players eventually will. The only problem is that there is only one game of chess, while there are a myriad of computer games. Therefore while one can be the best chess player in the world, a computer gamer can only be say, the best Quake , UT, or Warcraft III player in the world.

      • Re:Are you on crack? (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward
        That's a nice comparison, but let's analyze:
        Olympic Games - Thousands of years old tradition testing mental and physical strength against other competitors from across the world in various sporting events such as the high jump, decathalon, swimming and a bunch of other things I'm too weak to do.
        X Games - Relatively new competition testing mental and physical strength against other competitors from across the world in various "extreme" sporting events such as skateboarding and other kinds of boarding, all

        • Re: (Score:1, Informative)

          by account_deleted ( 4530225 )
          Comment removed based on user account deletion

          • Re:Are you on crack? (Score:1, Insightful)

            by Anonymous Coward
            Will Wolfenstein and Quake be around forever like chess and the 100m dash?

            Chess: a simple game with centuries of TRADITION behind it. The rules have NOT changed for a very long time.

            100m dash: an easy to measure test of man's physical achievements.

            Doom III: a computer game that only runs well on very current hardware that will itself be obsolete (by cutting-edge gaming standards) in less than 24 months from now.

            This article is about "pro" gamers not being able to quit their regular jobs to pursue th
      • The Olympic Games are an amateur competition. Professional athletes are allowed to participate, but the non-basketball competitors need a regular job to make a living.
        • that govts support their greatest athletes in order to win for the olympics, therefore once they're on the team they don't need a job.

      • are YOU on crack? (Score:2, Insightful)

        by rj-eleven ( 312679 )
        The olympic games, the x-games, and professional sports are SPECTATOR sports. People want to watch it because it's exciting. The money comes from the fans. Nobody wants to watch a batch of geeks staring at their monitor while twitching every so often. Nobody wants to watch others play the game when they could play just as easily. That's why there is little money. Make it viewable, make it exciting, and then the money will come.
        • Nobody wants to watch a batch of geeks staring at their monitor while twitching every so often. Nobody wants to watch others play the game when they could play just as easily

          I do, and I doubt I'm the only one who does. People would want to watch for the same reason we watch professional athletes, we CAN'T do it ourselves. Sure most wouldn't care to watch people at the same level as ourselves play games but it is plenty cool seeing people pull l33t moves in games that we suck too much to pull off. So you to

    • professional gaming.. (Score:2, Insightful)
      by Tirel (692085) on Sat August 30, 10:57 AM (#6833876)
      an oxymoron.

      Maybe Funny or Troll, but not Insightful.

      There are people who dabble in games, then there are teams who practice, go over stratagy, tactics, roles, etc. They devote hours every night to play in online leagues.

      Hell, even the Armed forces uses videos games, but they call them Simulation training. Pilots train for hours on virtual aircraft.

      Blame it on the LAG!

  • Marketing... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by darkov ( 261309 ) on Saturday August 30, 2003 @01:19PM (#6833997)
    Is gaming such an interesting spectator sport? It's more interesting to play than watch someone else. And if you want to watch someone else play well you can do that using your own screen and some server on the net. If someone gets promotional dollars out of games it's going to be the game makers not the players.

    And what about the players themselves. Can you see yourself (or anyone) worshiping someone for their their ability to click really fast for endless hours in front of a screen? It's all about personalities and their ability to promote products.
    • Watch a good counterstrike match. If you're open minded, search for the videos:
      Hard Clan - Die Hard.avi
      ElectronicWarfare.wmv
      ADRENALINE2-divx . avi
      sunmanfinal.avi
      (Try google)
      These are just a few CS Movies that really show off how fun it can be to watch a pro play(some call it machenima or something.. I hate that name).

      "And what about the players themselves. Can you see yourself (or anyone) worshiping someone for their their ability to click really fast for endless hours in front of a screen?"

      I do worship s
      • Watch a good counterstrike match. If you're open minded, search for the videos:

        You are talking about highlight films. Somebody who hates watching baseball will still find it entertaining to watch movie of that Randy Johnson fastball that hit that dove that's been floating around the web for a few years. That doesn't mean that they would enjoy sitting through a nine-inning Diamondbacks game.

        BTW: "Machinima" is supposed to refer to animated features made with game engines and tool boxes, like this stuff [redvsblue.com]

        • "You are talking about highlight films. Somebody who hates watching baseball will still find it entertaining to watch movie of that Randy Johnson fastball that hit that dove that's been floating around the web for a few years. That doesn't mean that they would enjoy sitting through a nine-inning Diamondbacks game"
          Thats true, but that is something thats being worked on. The problem is you need to find the line between 'Fun to watch' and 'Unfair to the competitors'. Currently theres a new rule being used in m

    • Re:Marketing... (Score:3, Insightful)

      by macrom ( 537566 )
      Riddle me this :

      Is <insert sporting activity here> such an interesting spectator sport? It's more interesting to play than watch someone else. And if you want to watch someone else play well you can do that using your own <insert equipment here> and some <insert other equipment here>.

      The true reason is that gaming is not a) accepted as a popular sport by the masses and/or b) accepted as a sport worthing of wasting money on by people who have money to waste.

      Let's see...watch Mancheste
    • Is gaming such an interesting spectator sport?

      No.

      I will gladly sit for three hours to watch a little-league soccer game if some friend of mine's kid is playing, or watch a rival fastpitch softball team playing in an exhibition tournament, or watch my local High School's basketball team play a game... but I would never, in a million years, sit and watch any of the same people play Quake for three hours.

      If I won't even spend that much time watching somebody I care about playing, why in the hell would I co

    • Re:Marketing... (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Scooter ( 8281 )
      Lots of people watch football. I'm not one of them - as I'm probably with you in "I'd rather play than watch" but examine the reasons why millions do watch football: it's to see players with bags more skill than they have playing a game they know, really well. This applies equally well to games like Quake/RTCW etc. I'm sure you realise that it isn't really about "[clicking] really fast for endless hours in front of a screen" I've played Q2 4v4 in 'amateur' leagues in it's heyday and I found seeing bet

  • Boo Hoo. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Drakin ( 415182 ) on Saturday August 30, 2003 @01:23PM (#6834007)
    Games are suppose to be fun to play, a way of exscaping reality.

    Not a way of providing yourself an income. I thought this sort of thing when away when the so called dotcom boom fizzled.

    Time for people to relise that there's more jobs out there than ones that involve sitting at a computer, and guess what, they do pay enough to live on.

    • Re:Boo Hoo. (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Kwil ( 53679 )
      You mean like baseball, hockey, and basketball, or do you mean more abstract like poker or bridge?

      What it's really time for people to realize is that if people will pay to watch it (or advertise on it while other people watch) then it certainly *can* be a way of providing yourself an income.

      The question really is, what games are actually entertaining to really watch?

  • Why is there no money in gaming? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by secolactico ( 519805 ) on Saturday August 30, 2003 @01:26PM (#6834021) Journal
    Easy... it's not an spectator game. It's fun for the players and that's it. You can't fill an amphitheater of people paying $15 bucks to see five or ten guys duke it out in a Quake deathmatch. You can't sell pay-per-view rights for the same reason.

    Why not? Maybe it's because people somehow admire the performers at some level, and a computer game screams neither physical fitness/skill (sports) nor brain power (chess, etc).

    It will always have it's admirers, but so will horseshoe tossing.
    • Who said its not a spectator game?

      There are game demos online, that thousands have downloaded. There are relay servers where people watch actual games, with upto 100 people watching at a time.

      Even IRC broadcasts of games going.

      There are people who want to watch, and even travel to lan parties (which cost to attend). The largest Lan party in Seattle had over 2000 people at 35 bux a pop to attend. And ATI/Via sponsered giving away a few pieces of hardware.

      Also there are pay tv channels for gamers, where

      • What could help turn them in to real spectator sports (if its not been done already - I haven't seriously played any games for a while so might have missed it) is to add special "camera man" players, who unlike in the physical world can be invisible, indestructable and able to move, fly and/or see through walls - with a competent commentator and good production crew an exciting spectacle for the crowds can then be put on in real time (rather than just in the after-game playback/review mode, which have be

    • Actually, I have herd that in South Korea, gaming indeed can be a spectator sport. Can any South Korean /.ers verify this. I am almost certain that I read a bit about it in a Wired article a year or two ago...
  • Going to some bigger named lan parties, the guys who win are mostly the local clans who practice and play together. When youre a lone player going to the lan, its wise to join up with a good team. Most games are squad/team based, so normally only local teams can all afford to go.

    BTW, for all those posts about "Professional Players" are a joke, dont understand what it takes to become a professional player. Learning the maps, tactics, weapon techniques, positions, roles of each player, timing, etc. Large amo
  • Seriously, I would love to get paid for playing paintball with my friends too. Just as for quake players, there are paintball torunaments on which you can win some money, but not more than petty cash once divided up among your team members.

    The key, if you want to get paid more, is to make your sport fun to watch for ordinary people. If the general public thought it was as cool to watch paintball as to watch football, they would pay admission etc to come and see it, and some of that money would surely find
  • Last I heard, virtually every MMORPG had a thriving black market for auctions of characters, items, and whatever else required effort to produce in-game.

  • Ok seriously... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by still_sick ( 585332 ) on Saturday August 30, 2003 @01:53PM (#6834183)
    I have absolutely no doubt that gaming on a "professional" scale is incredibly difficult, takes hours on days on weeks on months on years of practice... Is far beyond %99.999 of the populace's capabilities... But COME ON... Anyone who honestly believes that they "should" be able to earn a full living playing video games is completely fooling themselves. There are two parts to any business transaction - there has to be someone receiving the money, and there has to be someone willing to PROVIDE the money. Exactly who are they expecting to provide the money? Spectators? As people have already pointed out, nobody wants to buy a ticket to watch people play Quake. Game companies? Why should they? The company made the game to sell it to you, not to give you thousands of dollars to play it for a living. And no, it's not good "advertising" or "promotion" or whatever. The only people who really care to watch "professional" gamers playing game XYZ is people who already own game XYZ and are already really into it. Maybe it's a harsh realization for some, but yes, if you want to earn a living, you have to work for it. Meaning an actual job that someone is willing to pay you to do. Stop acting so surprised that you "professional gaming" isn't making you rich or famous, no matter how good you are.

  • It's the expectation.. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by kmak ( 692406 ) on Saturday August 30, 2003 @02:07PM (#6834271)
    That probably kills people. What sport didn't start out paying people peanuts? Baseball, basketball, football players in the 20s-50s all had to take a summer job and a second job and maybe a third job. Granted, these are different times, but shouldn't be that different in terms of a sport whose popularity isn't topped out yet...

    People should do it because they like it, not because they can make money off it, and it'll ended up alright in the end.. the Pro Skateboarders aren't doing so bad anymore..
  • whenever my friends are over, we get the BIGGEST laughs out of "arena" on G4... its really a terribly funny show... it has two teams competing at 3 different games.... usually mechwarrior, unreal tournament, and some random console game.... but it cracks us up, because they get the biggest bunch of lamers to play on there! i've seen people walking into walls in these games.... its just sad.. and the player's personalities? its a sliding scale, they can be boring and decent players, or flamboyant llamas. i

  • Ehm maybe gaming will be on tv (Score:5, Insightful)

    by SmallFurryCreature ( 593017 ) on Saturday August 30, 2003 @02:24PM (#6834376) Journal
    With fightbox [bbcfightbox.co.uk] coming soon and timecommanders [bbc.co.uk] perhaps gaming will get that TV audience?

    The first is a game you can download and train with. It is an okay animated slighly odd to use fight game. The second is lot less clear but the ads for it make it looks a bit like the total war series. Lots of formations of soldiers fighting it out. (nice animation)

    But yeah I think that current games make extremly poor TV entertainment. But then again quake? That is like a drunk punchup compared to a thightly regulated boxing match. Just try to make a running commentary on a quake match

    Player [34_the()_[t53]] just picked up the gun. oh and got fragged. and he is back and he frags that guy and he gets fragged.

    So though luck guys but it looks like you have the following options

    • Get a real job and see this as a hobby with occasinal perks when you win a couple of bucks. Just like any other hobby.
    • Make the game more attractive to view for bystanders. Lose the stupid nicks to something people who have had sex can read and just try not to be complete assholes. Top soccer players may get away with it. Niche sports players can't. Remember entertainment means entertaining people, not looking down on them.
    • Turn semi-pro and make your living teaching others how to play. How do you think most golfers make their living?

    So in short I find this article to be in the trend of "Hey we made millions in the dotcom days. But now people seem to expect us to make real products". Yeah cry me a river. Oh well at least they are not aimbot cheaters.

  • It's new... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Dr. Bent ( 533421 ) <ben AT int DOT com> on Saturday August 30, 2003 @02:59PM (#6834544) Homepage
    Golfers made very little money playing pro at the turn of the century. So did baseball players. Pro gamers are just going to have to do it for the love of the game for now. When (or if) more people start watching, then the purses will get bigger.

    And when it happens, I'm sure people will complain about how it's all about the money now, and pro gamers should be thankful that they get to play video games for a living and stop whining about how thier agent could only get them $20 mil.

    • Re:It's new... (Score:2, Insightful)

      by MMaestro ( 585010 )
      Its not a very fair statement though. Golf and baseball was more recognized as a simple, relatively cheap (the average GAMING PC costs about $1500 USD) and easy games to get into.

      Nowadays you spend something like $50 to start playing in baseball (a glove, a ball and maybe a bat) and golf costs around $100 per person (rent the equipment). Gaming equipment on the other hand costs around $1500 and up. On top of that there is learning the game physics (for FPS games at least), the map designs (a MUST for RTS g

      • Re:It's new... (Score:2, Interesting)

        by EvanTaylor ( 532101 )
        heh... you either dont golf or play baseball. You compare buying a mit and ball to buying a 1500 dollar pc. Being in shape working on your swing, batting practice, driving ranges. Real equipment, shoes/cleats, proper attire, etc. I have yet to save enough money to try to get into golf. Your arguement is funny at best.
        • Golf is expensive, but when I started playing ball (men's fastpitch softball, to be specific) in an amateur adult league, I started with a good $40 mitt and a hand-me down bat. League fees (for two different city leagues) were a total of $100 per season because our team had no sponsor. Since then, I've picked up a little more gear (my own batting helmet, a sliding pad for my left leg, steel cleats, etc.) but it's still nothing like what I've pissed away on gaming PC's. Batting practice is always free as

      • Re:It's new... (Score:3, Insightful)

        by psyco484 ( 555249 )
        Which one sounds the most difficult to pick up on? Golf, baseball or so-called "professional gaming?"

        I don't know, but today I turned on my TV and was flipping through the channels when suddenly I saw professional poker being played on TV. There were commentators, and everything. It was nuts watching too, it completely blew me away to watch hundreds of thousands of dollars change hands every few minutes. If someone finds poker interesting enough to put on TV, then I'd hope pro gaming would get a chance

        • I play golf and I play Battlefield 1942. Desert Combat mostly, but still.
          I bought my golf clubs at uBid for about $100. I've spent maybe 30 more dollars on cheap golf balls over the past 2 years, and my local City course (Which is well kept up, mind you) charges me less than $20 for 18 holes.
          So, 130 bucks to get started and 20 bucks to get out for quite a few hours. I figure in about 4 years (70 rounds or so) I'll start getting near 1500, and that's including the 130 I spent on the offset.
          As for my computer
      • $1500? Huh? Try $285 for a PS2 with games at costco [costco.com]
  • The truth is, all games were once like this. And I don't mean checkers and badminton. I mean hockey and basketball. What changed? Marketing through TV and merchandice. This could very well happen to gaming, and in fact it already has in other countries like Korea. Check out this interesting article [wired.com] that mentions a dedicated channel for video gaming from Wired.
  • Gaming doesn't interest spectators, and thus will not make for a lucrative professional "sport".

    Some of the problems:

    1. Game turnover is huge. Imagine if football looked and played completely different every 2 years. Nobody's playing Quake II tournaments anymore. New sports always take time to spark interest and gain acceptance, and moving from game to game essentially leaves the competition stuck in "new sport" mode.

    2. Games just aren't that great to look at. As a spectator, everything just kinda loo

  • Time machine + mad skillz from teh futar

    =profit!!!

    bwahahaha ahahahahaha I've got you now pesky kids!

  • Money (Score:3, Funny)

    by Torgo's Pizza ( 547926 ) on Saturday August 30, 2003 @11:22PM (#6836415) Homepage Journal
    "If you work for eight months and you divide up your hours, the amount of money that you make is minimal."

    Gee, that sounds an awful lot like my time working in game development.

  • Getting paid for playing is one of the realities I'm having a hard time reconciling these days. I work a full-time job, study to improve myself and earn technical certifications, and am contemplating getting an MBA to try to get my job level above the "available for off-shoring". These guys are complaining that risking the loss of their job to play RTCW isn't balanced by the amount of money they're making.

    Do what we're all doing, quit yer bitchin', and get (or keep) a real job. There are lots of gamers
  • SK (Schroet Kommando) was founded 1997 in Germany. From 1997 to 2003 SK has developed to become the biggest and most famous eSport team in the world. With divisions and players from a multiple of countries. During the last 12 months, we have earned over 150 000 Euro in cash prices from tournaments around the world, that is a lot more than any other team out there. We are competing in games such as Counter-Strike, Warcraft III, Unreal Tournament 2003 and FIFA. In the last year we have also expanded to becomi
  • Professional gameplayers...? Please.

    There's nothing worse in multiplayer than an opponent that knows the game through and through and studies it like a Buddhist monk in training. The kind that lives and breathes a game and can't accept defeat at the hands of anyone. The kind of person, in short, for whom a game is much more than a mere game. Those are the people who take all of the fun out of it.

    Okay, cheaters are pretty bad too... but what is cheating a reaction against?

    Computer games are recreat

  • It will eventually happen, all over the world there are beginning to be shows dedicated to video gaming and this will in time spin off to online competitions/tournaments and sooner later broadcasted competitions.

    The concept that is not "entertaining enough to watch" doesnt really apply I mean seriously have you ever watched a baseball, football, basketball game in which your favorite team is not playing?.
    Watching any game is boring. What makes you interested is that YOU want someone to win you need a
  • TV sponsorship for tournaments, etc. There's a slight hitch to that when you're envisioning it with online games...

    Anyone can have a TV. I could have my TV on whilst playing in a Half-Life tourney and track my opponents.

    Now, with a stadium and perhaps a closed arena (i.e. you can watch the game, and maybe the players by webcam, but they can't see the big screen) it would work... but that involves having a dedicated locale, among other things.
  • did nobody else find that amusing?

    Look! Germans!! shoot!!!

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