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GameCube (Games) XBox (Games) Entertainment Games

Xbox Boss Admits Mistakes, Bashes Nintendo 68

Posted by simoniker from the shy-and-retiring-guy dept.
Thanks to C+VG for their interview with Microsoft's Peter Moore about the state of the Xbox, following on from their recent interview with fellow Xbox bigshot Ed Fries. In this piece, Moore talks about early problems for Microsoft's console, saying: "I look back at the first E3 Xbox had and it was an unmitigated disaster. But that was a wake-up call." He also discusses the company's rivalry with Sony, saying: "It's difficult to expect Xbox to challenge PS2 when the starting gun had gone off a year and a half before and it was already on the third lap", before turning on Nintendo: "I think Nintendo is surprised - it's kind of slipped away from them pretty quickly over the last couple of years. I don't think they really anticipated how well we would do in the business."
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Xbox Boss Admits Mistakes, Bashes Nintendo More

Xbox Boss Admits Mistakes, Bashes Nintendo

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  • Hrmmmm.. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by HolyCoitus ( 658601 ) on Sunday September 21, 2003 @01:23AM (#7015969)
    He's talking about Nintendo struggling, but isn't the Xbox having a battle with Nintendo for second place for worldwide sales? If Nintendo is struggling and lagging behind, and the fight for gaming hardware supremacy is between the Xbox, PC, and PS2, why isn't the Xbox outselling the Gamecube? Last time I heard, wasn't Nintendo slightly ahead of them?

    • Re:Hrmmmm.. (Score:4, Interesting)

      by burns210 ( 572621 ) <maburns@gmail.com> on Sunday September 21, 2003 @01:58AM (#7016125) Homepage Journal
      and that is not even including the gameboy... o good lord, that thing is selling like mad.

    • Re:Hrmmmm.. (Score:5, Interesting)

      by M3wThr33 ( 310489 ) on Sunday September 21, 2003 @02:05AM (#7016144) Homepage
      All of MS's statements are heavily biased.
      Their console:game purchase ratio includes the two-in-one disc you get when you buy it(As if there's any other way), and their definition of worldwide is "USA, Europe and Australia." They also issued one when DOA:XBV was released in Japan and made the XBox outsell the Cube for one week. They compared sales of a GAME to sales of a CONSOLE. That's BS considering at the SAME TIME Pokemon Ruby/Sapphire was out for over 2 months and in that SAME WEEK outsold the entire Japanese annual XBox console sales. How about the one when they recalled the XBox over the spinning disc during ejection? They didn't expect Japanese gamers to be so finicky. Great, insult your customers. . .
      And after seeing their top sellers be Dino Crisis 3 and DOA:XBV, their current strategy is to release more American games to boost sales.

      See, they aren't admitting half their troubles.
      Every press release you have to read, pay attention to the details for real desperate humor.

      And yes, GCN is leading worldwide. So far this year 300,000 PS2s were sold, 144,000 XBoxen and 100,000 GCNs(3:1.5:1). Compare that to 30,000 PS2s, 15,000 Cubes a week and 900 XBoxen a week in Japan(3:2:0.07). The ratio is heavily weighted outside of English-speaking countries.
      • Yes, incidentally, in the New Global Economy, aren't these "outside of English-speaking countries" supposed to be a new source of global wealth and economic stability?

        Nintendo, for some reason, seems to have no problems being sold in downtown markets where nobody speaks English.

        Wonder why that is, exactly?

      • Re:Hrmmmm.. (Score:1, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward
        And yes, GCN is leading worldwide. So far this year 300,000 PS2s were sold, 144,000 XBoxen and 100,000 GCNs(3:1.5:1). Compare that to 30,000 PS2s, 15,000 Cubes a week and 900 XBoxen a week in Japan(3:2:0.07).

        You mean PS2 is leading worldwide, right? Every list I see has Sony's machine firmly in the top spot. Even your numbers support that. Not that I personally think it deserves to be there, but the truth isn't always what we want.

      • Re:Hrmmmm.. (Score:3, Insightful)

        by DeadScreenSky ( 666442 )
        How about the one when they recalled the XBox over the spinning disc during ejection? They didn't expect Japanese gamers to be so finicky. Great, insult your customers. . .

        They didn't insult their customers. The spinning disc issue didn't hurt the disc or the system. But a urban myth sprung up over there that it did, so many Japanese wanted their console replaced. I like Japan, and I like Japanese culture, but there is only so much you can expect MS to do when it comes to Japanese xenophobia.

        • Re:Hrmmmm.. (Score:5, Insightful)

          by Tofuhead ( 40727 ) on Sunday September 21, 2003 @03:58PM (#7019719)

          I wish these xbox threads could manage to keep one basic truth in mind: Xenophobic Japanese consumerism is a myth! It's a standard cop-out that foreign goods manufacturers use whenever _they_ fail to design something the Japanese would want to buy. Anyone who has been to Japan can confirm this. Many young Japanese people (the same segment who plays the most games) are particularly keen to non-traditional, non-Japanese trends - as long as they are well-made, functional, and/or fashionable. Things have been like this _since the war_. Analyzing the xbox, it fails the "well-made" criterion because of the widely-publicized disc-scratching debacle - serious or not. It fails the "functionality" criterion because of the dearth of Japanese-style software support. Finally, xbox fails the "fashionability" criterion because it is anything but cute or sleek; instead, it is HUGE.

          When a product suits Japanese tastes, it doesn't matter where it's made or who designed it. The xbox simply does not serve this market at all. Not a single aspect of its hardware design or software lineup was created with "conquering Japan" firmly in mind - "Project Midway" misnomer be damned. That is why it sells piss-poorly in Japan, and that is also why it sells relatively well (despite its flaws) in the U.S. It was designed to suit Western tastes, glossing over flaws that Westerners would not consider important (like huge system size, huge controller size, low Japanese 3rd-party support, the tacky puke green system highlights, etc.). When their flagship title is an FPS and they have no strong offerings in the form of linear or strategic RPGs, party games, mascot platformers, puzzles, or even freaking arcade shooters, Microsoft is NOT targeting Japan. They are targeting America and Europe, the lands of Quake-happy h4x0rs who grew up in PC-centric (not arcade-centric) cultures.

          A final thought: If Nintendo had released the xbox hardware and its software lineup, and Microsoft had released the GameCube and its software lineup, do you really think Nintendo would still be outselling Microsoft there, hand over fist?

          < tofuhead >

          • I wish these xbox threads could manage to keep one basic truth in mind: Xenophobic Japanese consumerism is a myth! It's a standard cop-out that foreign goods manufacturers use whenever _they_ fail to design something the Japanese would want to buy.

            This is generally true, but there is a grain of truth in their arguments. For instance, one of the complaints about Final Fantasy XI in Japan was that it seemed "too American." But that probably didn't cause it's low sales as much as the fact that it's an MMOR

            • I think you said it yourself. FFXI hasn't met expectations because it is an MMORPG -- not because it was "too American" -- and MMORPGs don't fare extremely well in Japan. I don't really think it would have mattered very much who designed FFXI; the very fact that it is based on a game genre that is not traditionally popular in Japan * is a dead giveaway as to why it isn't doing as well as hoped. I don't think xenophobia has much to do with it; it's from Square Enix, after all.

              * I have known Japanese peop

    • Re:Hrmmmm.. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by WasterDave ( 20047 ) <davep@noSPAm.zedkep.com> on Sunday September 21, 2003 @03:16AM (#7016377)
      the fight for gaming hardware supremacy is between the Xbox, PC, and PS2, why isn't the Xbox outselling the Gamecube?

      Because it has - and I think this is becoming clearer over time - absolutely nothing to do with hardware.

      Modern PC's are vastly more powerful than any of the above. The PC as a platform, however, is screwed. Really. I'm a really typical maturing gamer: Software engineer for a living; Own home; Recently had first child. My PC doesn't even have a hard drive in it right now. Between using an iBook for "computer" tasks, gaming on the PS2 and the rapidly declining (for me) LAN party scene - I'm done. The upgrade for HL2 and Doom3 is going to be somewhere in the vicinity of NZ$2k. I can get Jak and Daxter 2 for $120, or GT4. Hell I played an hour and a half of GT3 this morning - two years after getting it. It's an amazing value proposition.

      All this fails mention that my upgrade fee will include feeding our friends in Redmond, feeling sick about it, and suffering the resulting security hell ... not to mention the debugging shitfight that LAN parties have managed to devolve into. Honestly, why bother? This was supposed to be fun.

      Looking purely at console hardware I think it has become clear that the PS2 is, at it's core, phenomenally weedy. Almost exactly a 300MHz MIPS core bolted onto a Voodoo3. Where it shines, of course, is when the vector engines get going ... but it's a fucker to code for.

      I believe, based on very few actual facts, that the GC has a lot more grunt than we give it credit for.

      What I find more intriguing is the relationship between the three companies and the software development community. Do we, as developers on the fringes of the industry, matter? Microsoft certainly think so, and the "piece of piss" portability from DX8 to the XBox has lead to the development of maybe half their games.

      Sony think so, a bit. PS2 Linux is a step in the right direction, and I imagine that gaining a PS2 development license is made significantly easier by having the basics of your stuff going on Linux before you even ask.

      Nintendo really don't give a shit and are quite open about it.

      Should they care about us? Given that it's a million dollars just in artwork to ship an FPS now, are any blockbusters really about to appear out of the back bedrooms? Is it the Halo's and GT4's that are responsbile for the majority of earnings, or does the enormous library of "b league" playstation games have an equally important part to play?

      If anyone knows, I'd be interested to find out.

      Dave

  • Yeah, Nintendo is surprised. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ivan256 ( 17499 ) * on Sunday September 21, 2003 @01:26AM (#7015987)
    As Nintendo swims in profits, they probably are surprised by Microsoft. They're probably surpirsed that Microsoft doesn't even seem to care if their console is profitable. Sure, Nintendo may not be making the profits they're used to, but when the competition is willing to flush money down the toilet all day to woo your customers, a half a billion a year in profits is nothing to shake a stick at. Nintendo is in it for the money, and they certainly know how to rake it in.

  • Bashing? I don't think so. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by AlexMax2742 ( 602517 ) on Sunday September 21, 2003 @02:31AM (#7016248)
    "I think Nintendo is surprised - it's kind of slipped away from them pretty quickly over the last couple of years. I don't think they really anticipated how well we would do in the business."

    Honestly. Did anyone think the Xbox would do as well as it's doing?

    • No, actually, I underestimated the number of exclusive hit games it would have: it has one so far... and it's not going to be exclusive for much longer.
    • Honestly. Did anyone think the Xbox would do as well as it's doing?

      Doing well? You mean that having one fifth of the PS2's marketshare is considered "doing well" now? Man, I must have stepped into bizarro world by mistake...

      When the XBox came out, their expectations was Total World Domination and crushing the PS2 and its "inferior hardware". It never did.
      Turns out that their "superior hardware/graphics" was (what a surprise) totally overhyped. The Xbox's graphics are ever so slightly better than the PS2

      • Re:Bashing? I don't think so. (Score:4, Insightful)

        by AlexMax2742 ( 602517 ) on Sunday September 21, 2003 @01:14PM (#7018783)
        When the XBox came out, their expectations was Total World Domination and crushing the PS2 and its "inferior hardware". It never did. Turns out that their "superior hardware/graphics" was (what a surprise) totally overhyped. The Xbox's graphics are ever so slightly better than the PS2's, but their software offerings are greatly inferior.

        Key words. THEIR expectations. Hell, Nokia probably things the N-Gage can actually compete with the GBA. Thats not the point. You had the Xbox fanboys, and then everyone else thought the Xbox was a joke. Considering all of that negative press up until and shortly after release, if it is now battling for second place against Nintendo, an established videogame entity with your first console attempt...that is still an impressive feat.

        Of course the graphics are overhyped. What do you expec? When was the last time a company didn't overhype its own system.

        • You had the Xbox fanboys, and then everyone else thought the Xbox was a joke.

          Oddly enough, a lot of people in he industry were expecting the xBox to be huge(market wise, not physically, wich it is). People actually thought that microsoft would achieve in the console world what it did in the PC world.

          it is now battling for second place against Nintendo, an established videogame entity with your first console attempt...that is still an impressive feat.

          It would be if a few years ago Sony hadn't come up w
  • hell even im surprised... here i am sitting with an xbox, halo and a few other games, not even giving GC an ounce of thought, when previously NES, SNES and N64 to an extent had been my favoirte of all consoles
    • here i am sitting with an xbox, halo and a few other games, not even giving GC an ounce of thought, when previously NES, SNES and N64 to an extent had been my favoirte of all consoles

      I think it might be slightly different for those of us that didn't buy an N64. In fact, I never owned an SNES, either (but I knew many people that did). My XBox has 2 exclusive games that I really spend any time with, and I think everyone knows what games those are (and they'll both be PC games soon enough). The rest of the g

  • Obsessed by big N? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by imperator_mundi ( 527413 ) on Sunday September 21, 2003 @05:53AM (#7016723)
    It's interesting that the name of Nintendo can be found on almost every paragraph... why spend your time talking about #3 when you already are #2?

    Well, indeed it could be that being #3 while making money still funnier than reach the 2nd place loosing millions on the way to.

  • Peter Moore (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Locky ( 608008 )
    Peter Moore used to work for Nintendo of America in a pretty high position. During the course of a week where he quit to work for Microsoft his comments varied between

    'Nintendo is in a firm position to claim back the market, yada yada yada'
    To

    'Microsoft is in a firm position to claim the market, yada yada yada'

    The insight to the industry this guy gives is directly relevant to who he is working for.

    • Re:Peter Moore (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Actually, he was the President and COO of Sega of America during the Dreamcast years. It was only this year that he left Sega and joined Microsoft. Sorry to nitpick.

    • He worked at Sega, not Nintendo.
    • Accidently chose "Funny" instead of "Overrated" on your ludicrous post. While it's funny that you could post that Peter Moore was NOA (maybe you're thinking of Howard Lincoln), when he used to work for Sega, it's also a bunch of useless crap.

  • Xbox Live mentioned.... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by unclethursday ( 664807 ) on Sunday September 21, 2003 @09:14AM (#7017248)
    Moore mentions Xbox Live in Japan. Ironically, because the Xbox has such a poor marketshare in Japan, the Xbox Live tie in ratio is almost 1 XBL to every 3 Xboxes.

    But I find this quote funny:

    Our customer satisfaction levels with Xbox Live are through the roof - they love it.

    I wonder, then, why it is that many of my friends and myself get quite bored of Xbox Live games rather quickly? Hell, an Xbox fansite editor mentioned in one of his own pieces on the site (article here [xbox365.com]) that his entire Xbox Live usage to date of the article was around 40 hours over 8 months.

    My usage is slightly more than that, but not by much by my esitmates. Probably less than 80 hours since November for me. My Xbox isn't even at my house right now.

    And Moore also seemed to not mention the flatlining of Xbox Live sales since before May....

    Thursdae

  • Almost every Xbox-related press release, interview, or other news item from Microsoft concludes with a statement to that effect. I can remember several that end with something along the lines of "...reaffirms the Xbox's position as number 2."

    Like Linux, Nintendo competition is something that they like to write off as inferior without really publicly regarding.
  • Unless you can clearly differentiate

    BZZZZT! That obviously isn't Microsoft's strategy.

    or you're willing to spend billions of dollars in losses

    Ding ding ding ding! I think we have a winner!

    --Jeremy

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