LGP Announces Three New Linux Games

Time Doctor writes "LinuxGamePublishing has just announced three new titles in their IRC channel (#lgp) on freenode: Gorky 17 (more info, also known as Odium), Knights and Merchants (more info, somewhat like the Age of * games), and Software Tycoon (more info, one of the first Tycoon-style games for Linux!). The best part is that they are all ready to go into beta, and if LGP sells enough copies, Epic Interactive Entertainment has committed to six new titles for LGP in 2004!"

Re:Why these games?

[treke]

Perhaps it's because Loki tried porting big name games and failed to stay in business. Instead of trying the same thing and hoping it works out better they are trying something different, port smaller games and hope to stick around long enough to be able to do big name stuff.

As cool as Star Wars Galaxies or Warcraft may be, there is obviously not enough of a market to sell those games and still make a profit.

Re:Why these games?

[Tisephone]

Loki went out of business because they struck a deal with the wrong loan shark, not because nobody bought their games.

Re:Why these games?

[treke]

As of last week, those tin box quake3's were still available at tuxgames, though they were finally running out of stock. The game was released when?

Re:Why these games?

[Crayon Kid]

The problem here is the fact that people have gotten so used to the "free beer" aspect of Linux that they're having trouble reaching for the wallet even when they should. They think nothing about buying software for Windows, but under Linux they're used to clicking their way on to freshmeat or freshrpms and grabbing it completely free. And when somebody expects money for Linux software it just seems so odd that they'd rather go pirate it.

Need examples? How about SuSE, or WineX? And then other people wonder why game makers won't take a chance on anything bigger than Gorky 17, or scream "where's the professional DTP or video editing or CAD software for Linux?" They're right there buddy, if more people would start giving credit where it's due and pay for good software once in a while things would get better.

"Free as in freedom, not as in beer" has been uttered for so long that people can't seem to actually fathom its meaning anymore. No, we haven't reached that utopic world where we don't have to pay for software anymore. We're just evolving, hopefully that's what this whole Open Source thing is about, we're learning to see things in another perspective. You still have to support the people who make software for you, just like you do with every other provider of anything you can't do yourself.

Re:Why these games?

[kccricket]

The parent is replying to the parent of its parent, not its parent.

Re:Why these games?

[kccricket]

And once again, I screw up. Please ignore the parent and I'll stay away from the repy button.

Re:Why these games?

[Spoing]

The problem here is the fact that people have gotten so used to the "free beer" aspect of Linux that they're having trouble reaching for the wallet even when they should.

While I appreciate not having to shell out $30 each for a boat load of tools I get gratis on Linux, I'm not cheap. My stack of games is quit thick (starting with almost all of Loki's titles).

The main problem is volume, not cheapness. The more Linux users, the more that will pay to play those games...though not necessarily just because

Re:Why these games?

[iCEBaLM]

The problem here is the fact that people have gotten so used to the "free beer" aspect of Linux that they're having trouble reaching for the wallet even when they should.

Wrong. This is a typical psudointellectual argument which has no basis in truth. Look at the amount of people who have subscribed to WineX, people who bought additional copies of Quake 3 and other Loki games just to support Linux. People who have subscribed to Mandrake. People who have supported the EFF, etc. There is no basis that Linux

Re:Why these games?

[iCEBaLM]

Heh. You ask for evidence but yet you don't supply your own.

Infact I did, you must have trouble reading.

Answer this question: do you believe Quake 3 or any other Loki games sold enough to cover the costs to port that game?

What I believe a fact to be is irrelevant.

Also, could you list all of the costs involved in porting a game?

Yes actually:

1. Licensing (which is quite frankly a crock)
2. Development

Now if you want to sell it:

3. Publishing

-- iCEBaLM

Re:Why these games?

[13Echo]

Thanks, Confucious. You're so wise. I'll keep this one in mind next time I send my $40 to Pat and co. at Slackware.

As for taking chances... I seem to recall that two major games hit Linux this year. UT2003 and NWN ring a bell?

Cad software and video editing are not an issue. When groups like the movie industry demand more of these apps on Linux, you'll see them. It *IS* hapening, slowly.

Re:Why these games?

[Anonymous Coward]

Ah, so IceBalm, you have your own list of games. Well, maybe you're a bit lacking in knowledge about economics, but I do not believe obtaining the rights to the games you suggested is feasible right now. Remember how Loki blew tons of money by porting big-name game after big-name game? Are you really expecting Linux Game Publishing to do the same? Finally, don't you realize how silly it is to immiately dismiss games like "Gorky 17" as horrible even though you have never heard of the game?

Re:Why these games?

[iCEBaLM]

Well, maybe you're a bit lacking in knowledge about economics, but I do not believe obtaining the rights to the games you suggested is feasible right now.

I don't think I'm the only one grasping to windows because of games. Infact it's the only reason I have windows. If I could get all my games for linux, I would be using linux.

Please explain to me the feasibility and economics of wasting money to port bargain bin games nobody has ever heard of. I'm sure your greatly informative insights will enhance ever

Re:Why these games?

[13Echo]

Buy a Gamecube and be done with it. I did. The last good Windows game that came out was BF1942, in my opinion... As a matter of fact, one of my friends made a comment similar to yours.

Him: "There are no games on Linux. Why would you want to use it?"

Me: "Have you played anything on Windows that's been good since BF1942 has been released?"

Him: "Well, no..."

He still plays only "Desert Combat" lately. Another recent game that he purchased was "Postal II." That game is a turd, even though it is kind

Re:Why these games?

[iCEBaLM]

Buy a Gamecube and be done with it.

I'd love to see you play an RTS with a gamepad.

The last good Windows game that came out was BF1942, in my opinion.

You know what they say about opinions... I'll just say that you and your friend must not play a lot of games and leave it at that.

Moderation gone awry

[iCEBaLM]

I suppose I should have expected it. I do find it interesting to note however that my supposedly "flamebait" post has not been responded to with any flames. Mine is a valid argument. Too bad moderators can't see past their "everything with the word Linux in it is golden" glasses.

LGP who?

[illuminata]

I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade, but who exactly are these people? Sure, it's not bad that Linux is getting a little bit of independent attention and a handful of larger companies supporting game development for the OS. But, Time Doctor tries to make it seem like this is something to really get hyped up about. A few unoriginal games from a relatively unknown publisher are in the works. What exactly am I supposed to be excited about? More mediocrity for a platform that doesn't have much of a demand for games or very many good games?

And who are these Epic Interactive people? I only know of one big industry player that goes by Epic, and this isn't the one. As if they have enough clout to make a statement like "if LGP sells so many copies, then we'll give you six titles". Please.

I'll be more interested in Linux gaming when more industry players show support and Linux becomes more of a viable desktop option for most people (note: I'm not endorsing Windows, in fact, I use Linux for my desktop). Think about it, this wouldn't be newsworthy anywhere if we were talking Windows.

Re:LGP who?

[illuminata]

Right, but my point is that this is such a small victory that it really doesn't mean anything. If their names meant something, sure, a plus for Linux. But, they are no different from the slew of other independent game makers. T

But what's with the war talk? If people in the Linux community would quit worrying so damn much about going to war with Microsoft and instead focused on improving their product, they would be a lot better off. So much time is wasted on hyping what they have when they could be working

Re:LGP who?

[Spoing]

Right, but my point is that this is such a small victory that it really doesn't mean anything. If their names meant something, sure, a plus for Linux. But, they are no different from the slew of other independent game makers.

LGP is like BASF; they don't make the games...they just make them possible. They are resellers at the core, not a development house. For companies that have Linux versions, but don't want to sell them for some reason, LGP takes care of some of the hassles.

Now, I'm not worried abo

Re:LGP who?

[illuminata]

Who cares about me? I wouldn't buy a Linux game now, but I am a potential customer. They better care about me. Otherwise, I'm an opportunity they passed up. I bet there's a whole lot more of people like me than people like you out there.

What needs to be worked on, like I said before, is making a market for Linux by establishing a desktop presence and get some key companies supporting Linux. Until then, the handful of Linux gamers will have to settle with what little they have while the rest of the world ha

Re:LGP who?

[Spoing]

Who cares about me? I wouldn't buy a Linux game now, but I am a potential customer. They better care about me. Otherwise, I'm an opportunity they passed up. I bet there's a whole lot more of people like me than people like you out there.

While I _did_ have a :) at the end of my original comment. If you do have some real interest, look at a couple of the Linux gaming sites...

The Linux Game Tome [happypenguin.org]

Linuxgames [linuxgames.com]

...and a place to buy them [tuxgames.com].

What needs to be worked on, like I said before, is making a market

Re:LGP who?

[illuminata]

I know you had a :), maybe you just think my words are harsher in tone than they were actually meant to be. I've checked out the game sites, but there's nothing much available that isn't cliche or outdated as far as games that weren't ported go. There aren't too many ported games either. Even out of the ported games, many were still cliche or outdated.

I don't think it should be too hard to acknowledge the fact that Linux is very far behind as a platform in the game industry. Taking baby steps forward isn't

Re:LGP who?

[Spoing]

Taking baby steps forward isn't enough.

Savage is brand new.

Neverwinter Nights is not an unknown title. The expansion packs such as Shadows of Undrentide are made available at the same time as the Windows and Mac versions.

Transgaming supports quite a few Windows games under WineX and they run well.

More titles are on the way.

Most of the old titles are from the last big expansion and bust -- and a nasty one at that. Baby steps are exactly what is needed; it shows what the market actually will suppo

Re:LGP who?

[irc.goatse.cx troll]

"Transgaming supports quite a few Windows games under WineX and they run well. "

Until theres a new patch and you can't play for months. Still cant play cs ever since the steam integration (You can jump through hoops to get steam to work,but the actual game dies with an error referring to gl extentions. This is true with both cs1.6 and any offline steam based game (CZ, hl2beta, not that I'd know of course.)

Re:LGP who?

[Spoing]

You're right.

Re:LGP who?

[illuminata]

I still stick with my statement about baby steps not being enough. Serious strides need to be made in the desktop arena. The ease of use is terrible for most of your common computer users. You'd probably have a hard enough time getting them to run a shell script, especially when you can just click the installer and have it work in Windows. Do you think that a regular person would put up with a game that you had to compile? I would think that they would rather just have things work. There's a whole lot of pe

Re:LGP who?

[Spoing]

I still stick with my statement about baby steps not being enough.

OK. As an active user, I have a different opinion.

Serious strides need to be made in the desktop arena.

Yes, and there have been, though I thought we were talking about games. Games -- there are a few thousand that work under Linux -- will always end up in the "never enough" category. There will always be a game that won't be available no matter what you use (exclusive console games, as an example).

As for desktop use, I've been com

Re:LGP who?

[illuminata]

Well, thanks for the link list, and what you had to say was interesting. I'm not going to have a huge post like before, I'll try to spare us from that. I doubt that you want to write up another large one either.

But, I just want to make a couple of points. In all of this desktop talk, it all was related to games. I'm a firm believer in the idea that the desktop has to be perfected and easy enough to use for the average person to migrate. Then, the games will come. Look at the jump from DOS to Windows 95 (3.

Re:LGP who?

[Joe Tie.]

I wouldn't buy a Linux game now, but I am a potential customer.

I disagree. You won't buy a Linux game. You're as much a potential customer for them as I, owning no mac hardware, am for an OS X game. I 'might' buy an OS X game one day, but I think any company would be pretty foolish to market anything to my demographic right now.

Re:LGP who?

[illuminata]

Who's to say that I won't? I run Linux. I play games. I just want a decent selection. If Linux (notice that I use the term Linux as if it were a single entity, it makes the writing easier) wants more gamers, then they need to get more people using their OS. If they want more people to use their OS, then they need to make it more user friendly.

The desktop Linux market share is puny. Most people who use Linux on the desktop now aren't gamers. They need to change that fact if they want to make some decent mon

Re:LGP who?

[13Echo]

Who exactly is this "they?" Is there some Linux entity out there that I am unaware of? That darn Linux company. You'd think they'd try to work harder to be more competitive.

Re:LGP who?

[illuminata]

I used the word they as if they were a single entity, like I said, because there's so many damn distributions out there that it really doesn't matter which one I'm talking about. It's for the same reason why people say "Linux is big on the server market" or "you can get Linux for free". Despite all of the branches of the Linux community, it's all blanketed under the term Linux. So, when I say they, I am speaking of the Linux community collectively.

Re:LGP who?

[treke]

It means something to the people who want some games to play on their computers. Sure the games won't draw new users, but compared but even brand new games won't draw people away from Windows. They already have them anyways. LGP is providing games to those of us who already use Linux on our computers and they are providing the best they can get.

Re:LGP who?

[illuminata]

No shit! I made that statement to show just how far behind Linux is in the game industry.

Re:LGP who?

[bsharitt]

It's like MacSoft, except for Linux instead of Macs.

Turning the PC into a console

[skinfitz]

Surely it would be in the best interests of game publishers to come up with a Knoppix [knoppix.net] style self booting Linux game platform for their games?

Re:Turning the PC into a console - plug!

[AlXtreme]

take a look here [sourceforge.net]

We already have a Gamer-module (by default filled with a large number of opensource games) with Enemy Territory, and also have Q3A and UT2k3-demo modules. They work, are fun at lan-parties, but besides that not a lot of people are going to reboot just to play a game (especially when booting could take a few minutes).

There are a few small retailers selling Morphix Game pre-installed, though. Comes close to having a console :)

Re:Turning the PC into a console

[Txiasaeia]

Back in the late 70's and early 80's, there were actually video games that worked like this. King's Quest 1 was one of them, as well as the PC version of Jumpman, Seamus, and many others. They worked. I dunno if I'd ever reboot my computer in order to play a video game today, however.

Re:

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:Whaaa?

[Aliencow]

Pay ? I thought LGP was an encrypted "GPL" to avoid SCO suing them !

Re:Whaaa?

[treke]

If they did that, they wouldn't be doing what they want to do. Most of the people at LGP are doing this because they really do love using Linux and want to see more games available. If they were out to make a boatload of cash they'd have quit with linux games a long time ago :)

Re:Whaaa?

[MBraynard]

Yeah, whatever dude.

I'm sorry, daughter of mine, but we can't afford to send you to college because I have such a passion to develop Linux-only games and refused to try to make enough money to provide for you by porting them, very easily, to Windows so that normal people could buy them. Have you considered selling blood or prostitution?

Re:Whaaa?

[treke]

Pretty much everyone involved has a second job that actually puts the food on the table, they work on the Linux games becasue they are games they want to play.

I've asked Mike Simms this before, and I gave you the same answer he gave me. He's put enough on the line for Linux games that I'm willing to take him at his word on the issue. That trust doesnt stretch over to estimated release date's though.

Okay here's the bottom line

[Joe Tennies]

You want to know why these games? I can tell you a couple. They are cheap to get rights to (like I personally might be able to fund one). They are fun. They are stepping stones to better things. Epic Interactive has been porting games for a while actually. They have some good Mac ports and other OSs as well. Hyperion is testing the waters for Linux again. They pulled 2 developers from the icculus.org community to do the port for them and covered the cost of the rights. They are also going to pay th

GBA not that profitable for developers...

[Sits]

This is offtopic but I'd like to point out that many of the smaller GBA orientated games developers have gone bust over the past year or two.

I'd say the most notable of these were Crawfish who did a sterling job of converting SFA3 to the system. It's so sad to see such a good job done only for it to be met by market failiure :(

It can't be *that* cheap to publish a GBA game (they are catridges after all and there's the Nintendo licence to pay) and I suspsect it is mainly Nintendo and the uber publishers (r

Excerpt from Software Tycoon Scenario Listing

[luekj]

Valves of Terror!: Difficulty- Terrible

You have been hired by a software company mired in stolen code, missed release dates, and excuciatingly large swimming pools of cash generated from selling data freely available on the internet.

Objectives:

Eat doritos, install firewall (level 1), gain at least Level 2: Hacker Spite.

end of line