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Classic Games (Games) Entertainment Games

Game Reviews Not Stuck In Pac Man Era? 56

Thanks to GameSpot for their 'GameSpotting' column discussing critics who say videogame reviewing is still much too basic an art. Quoting a subscriber-only Wall Street Journal article with similar comments to a recent Slashdot story, the author warns against overly conceptual game reviews: "Look at it this way: Would you prefer for me to wistfully tell you how Final Fantasy XI made me feel, or would you prefer for me to tell you how it works, what about it works well, and what about it doesn't work well?" And, although he thinks the WSJ piece has many good points, he takes issue with comparisons between game reviewing and film reviewing: "When was the last time you decided to see a movie based on a movie review? Film critics write to each other."
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Game Reviews Not Stuck In Pac Man Era?

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  • film reviews (Score:3, Insightful)

    by ArmorFiend ( 151674 ) on Monday November 10, 2003 @12:10PM (#7434409) Homepage Journal
    "When was the last time you decided to see a movie based on a movie review? Film critics write to each other."
    I use film reviews to filter the claptrap from the servicable, especially in the ever-stupidity-beset summer blockbuster genre. Based on the reviews, I saw Spider-Man, but passed on The Hulk. Now that the latter is on video, I can say I made the right decision.

    Now why, oh why, didn't the reviewer come right out and say Kill Bill sucked, instead of dancing around it. (/me holds head in hands)
    • Now why, oh why, didn't the reviewer come right out and say Kill Bill sucked, instead of dancing around it
      uhmmm... because it's brilliant? It was the most fun I've had at the movies in ages.

      • uhmmm... because it's brilliant? It was the most fun I've had at the movies in ages.

        Well put--I agree thoroughly. It was hilarious. Good thing I got to go see Matrix: Revolutions to dampen my fervor for movies for a long time to come.
      • Got Causality? (Score:2, Interesting)

        by ArmorFiend ( 151674 )
        Personally, I could not enjoy it because it just didn't make any SENSE! 200 bodyguards in a powerful crime syndicate, and none of them bring a gun!?! Trained assassin comes in by the front door, politely waits for her enemies to get organized before attacking?!? Sorry, without some sort of rational underpinnings, an internally consistant system if you will, I can't enjoy a movie. For this reason I found Kill Bill 1 to be a waste of time, and definately won't be seeing the second one.
        • I think you missed the point. Many dialogs were corny and ridiculous, parts of the fights looked staged to dance-like proportions (I half expected the "WHAM" "CRACK" onomatopoeias from the Adam West's Batman to show up) but that's the intent. The movie aimed for fun and hit it squarely. It wasn't supposed to be believable. It's a direct-to-live-action translation of Comic Book/Manga action (it pays homage to a lot of Manga cliches/visual styles). To tell the truth, I was giddy like a schoolgirl while watchi
    • So you say you use reviews, but then go on to say the one for Kill Bill was wrong. This kinda invalidates your theory. (And I don't understand why so many people hate Hulk.)

      I only trust one reviewer. Roger Ebert. He's the only critic whose taste seems to match mine.

      Well, of course there's that stupid wanker Leonard Maltin. I like his reviews. If he hates a movie, I know it must be good because he's an idiot.
      • Here's my beef with Hulk. I just didn't care about any of the characters. The crazy old dad didn't seem rational enough to be a good villian. Plus the material-morphing super-guy was, well, totally lame, not a good matchup for the Hulk to fight at all. Looking back on it, the best fight of the movie was Hulk versus the stupid CGI dogs. And that was just silly, too.

        Ultimately, the Hulk's enemy was "the military industrial complex". Did the Hulk confront it? No, he moved to Columbia instead. Reasonab
        • I don't think it was any less silly than Green Goblin in Spiderman. And the effects were just incredible. I don't care what anyone says, the first time I actually saw Hulk (as in the creature in the movie) I was totally marking out like I did when I first saw the TV show when I was about 7:)
    • The worst reviewers around have GOT to be Lisa Schwatrzbaum and Owen Gleiberman in Entertainment Weekly. They are such "film snobs" - you can predict what movies they will like and which they'll pan. They love all movies you're "supposed" to love that others just aren't deep enough to get (Evil Dead, Pitch Black, Rushmore) and hate basically anything mainstream.

      Don't get me wrong, I like those 3 movies too, but I don't like everything that comes to Independent Movie Theatres and stuff.
    • Because Kill Bill didn't suck. It entertained on every level. The only people I know who didn't love that film were people who were not into cinema in general. It was the best of several genres of film that havn't been seen in decades. If you didn't enjoy it, you didn't know what you were supposed to enjoy: a witty director and his stylish film. It was at least as good as Pulp Fiction... or are you too easily entertained?
      • "If you didn't enjoy it, you didn't know what you were supposed to enjoy"

        You must be a real asshole in the real world.

      • Beats me. I guess I'm a too easily entertained simpleton dimwit, because I thought the movie was crap. I couldn't suspend my disbelief, when the Yakuza fail to have any, y'know, guns. They're not a knitting club, they're the Mafia, that solely exist through their ability to do violence.
    • Now why, oh why, didn't the reviewer come right out and say Kill Bill sucked, instead of dancing around it. (/me holds head in hands)

      Kill Bill Vol 1 was brilliant. Easily the best movie I've seen since... well, to be blunt, since Pulp Fiction. What didn't you like about it?

  • with movie reviews and i believe other reviews (books, games, etc) most critics either take it from a technical approach or from an artistic approach. while this is all well and good. movie, books, games, etc were ment to entertain. i have yet to find a critic who reviews based on entertainment value (i don't actively look however) of course with a large majority of games today being carbon copies of other games is there any real entertainment left?
    • I was actually surprised when I read a review from The Rundown with the wrestler the Rock, and the reviewer (Ebert, I think) gave it like 2 1/2 to 3 stars. He said it wasn't a good movie, but it was solidly entertaining and kept him interested.
    • by JMZero ( 449047 )
      There's actually very few remaining of the snooty critic you describe - and more people who are interested in this kind of review than you probably think.

      Who's the most popular film critic right now? Probably still Ebert. And look at his reviews. Sure he scores some movies high that you might find boring. But he also gives good scores to movies that are technical and artistic voids - if they're done well and entertaining.

      If you haven't found a critic out there that likes the same things you do, you're
    • > reviews based on entertainment value

      That's really what any review is about. The theory is that there are general charecteristics that make for a "good" (e.g. entertaining) book, movie, or whatever, as well as charecteristics that make for a "bad" one. Thousands upon thousands of pages have been written over hundreds of years about what these charecteristics are for speeches and books. A lot less has been written about movies. Almost nothing has been written about video games. As the article mentions

  • when I see movies (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Artifex ( 18308 ) on Monday November 10, 2003 @12:21PM (#7434501) Journal
    I hardly ever pay to see movies any more; since our local art houses have gotten into the "business" (think internet bubble) of pre-release screenings, I get several invitations a month to go to free shows. Not to mention that my local film festival gets me other invites, simply for being a member.

    I actually do read reviews, mostly online, when I can get them, simply because there's no local word of mouth nor advertising for these things, before I get the invites. Otherwise I just have to rely on what the email or card says about the plot of a movie. Basically in the last month I've turned down "Sylvia" [imdb.com] because of horrendous reviews and "Texas Chainsaw Massacre" [imdb.com] because I don't do horror stories. This week I have 3 free movies to go see, including "Bad Santa," [imdb.com] which I'll see ONLY because it got good reviews [aintitcool.com], "Shattered Glass," [imdb.com] which sounds interesting but which I may pass up for an astronomy club meeting (don't laugh), and "Mona Lisa Smile," [imdb.com] which sounds sappy, but which I'll probably watch anyway.

    If I do pay to see movies, it's usually because of trailers I've seen in the theater that pique my interest, like "Veronica Guerin," [imdb.com] which I'll pay for if I don't get a pass.
  • by JMZero ( 449047 ) on Monday November 10, 2003 @12:29PM (#7434571) Homepage
    ..all the time. In either case, you have to find a specific reviewer that enjoys the same kind of things you do. Once you do, you can avoid a lot of crud you wouldn't like, and find stuff you may have otherwise missed.

    Right now, there's game reviewers that talk about the things important to me. The WSJ guy may be interested in other stuff about games, or discussion from other angles. I can see that, but it's silly to pretend that this different coverage he wants would be better across the board.

    Similarly, I'm happy with Ebert for film. Others may want more esoteric information or deeper analysis than Ebert provides. Or more shallow. But that doesn't mean that Ebert is somehow wrong - he gives many people (including me) precisely the information they want about a picture.

    If you look beyond the mainstream, there's plenty of different review sources for games out there - just as there are for film. You can't review criticism based just on the Eberts of the world. To do so is just lazy.
  • I always find reviews extremely useful on the nuts and bolts side to decide what platform would be best to get a given game for. Frequently, the PC/PS2/GC/XBox versions will have certain advantages/disadvantages that you just flat out can't tell from reading the package or watching someone play it for 5 minutes. Since reviewers usually point out the differences between versions of a given game, it allows me to make a much better decision on how I can most enjoy that game.

    But more to the subject, I absolute
  • Film reviews? (Score:4, Informative)

    by Violet Null ( 452694 ) on Monday November 10, 2003 @12:35PM (#7434604)
    "When was the last time you decided to see a movie based on a movie review? Film critics write to each other."

    I use film reviews all the time. Unless I'm already heavily predisposed to see in the movie (eg, Bubba Ho-Tep [bubbahotep.com]), if a movie comes out where the reviews are real stinkers, I won't go see it.

    (Notice that that's reviews, plural. Rotten Tomatoes [rottentomatoes.com] is your friend.)

    Granted, word of mouth is more important than reviews, but that doesn't make reviews useless.

    Back on the subject of game reviews, though: I certainly want reviewers to tell me about the game, not about their interpretation of the game. The worst offendor I think I've ever read is here [rottentomatoes.com]. Allow me to quote:

    Sigmund Freud argues that all living things are governed by two basic instincts: the life instinct called Eros or the death instinct called Thanatos. Eros is the energy that tries to build social ties, fueled by the body, which floods the mind. Thanatos destroys ties and is the wish for destruction and death. All social activity can be reduced to complex forms and interaction of these two instincts. However, when civilization and socialization disrupt the normal ebb and flow of instinctual living, the mind breaks up under the demands. The threefold self is the id, the collective genetic inheritance of the species; the ego, which acts to meet the demands of the id; and the super-ego, which represents the internalization of the demands of society. Humans struggle to find an outlet to meet the demands of their instincts, but in ways that are socially acceptable. War is a perfect justification when Eros fails to tame Thanatos. Grand Theft Auto: Vice City is another.

    And that's just the beginning, folks.
    • >Granted, word of mouth is more important than reviews, but that doesn't make reviews useless.

      What is word of mouth, other than amateur reviews? If your friends tastes are similar to yours, then they're probably more useful. I tend to find that my tastes run closer to certain film critics than my friends (I need new friends, I guess!) and that tends to influence what I see (or add to my netflix queue) a lot more.

      But the trick is to know how to be a smart consumer. Understand what you like about movi
      • Find some good reviewers (that say _why_ they liked it in clear terms), and decide if you tend to like those elements, and you end up seeing a lot fewer movies you don't enjoy.

        This is very true. A reviewer in my local paper does this most of the time. I have almost the opposite taste in movies, so if this reviewer loves it, I'll most likely pass.

        The same thing goes for game reviews too, although that tends to work more on a per site basis than individual reviewers (at least, that's what I've found).

    • Re:Film reviews? (Score:3, Informative)

      by jermyjerm ( 705338 )
      Rotten Tomatoes is handy for deciding what movies to see, and I often consult Game Rankings [gamerankings.com] when trying to decide on games, as well.

      Oh, and I find the GTA:VC reviewers logic hilariously absurd. That entire passage is hard to follow, but if I'm right in thinking he's trying to say that playing Vice City, like fighting wars, is giving into man's basest desire for violence... I'd have to vocally disagree! It could be easily argued that a game like VC is another manifestation of man's desire to find an accepta
  • by Anonymous Coward
    Film critics may write to each other, but game reviewers carry a different purpose.

    If you see a film because the previews made it look interest, but it turns out sucking, you're only out $9 - maybe $4.50 during an economy showing. If you get a game because the box looks good and it turns out to be a piece of crap, you're out $45 to $75.
    • With the exception that you can regain some (not all) of your cash on the game by selling it on Half or going to EB Games or Game Stop and selling it back to them. Once you spend the money on the ticket at the movie, that money's long gone...
  • Missing the Point (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Snowmit ( 704081 )
    A lot of this discussion seems to be missing the point that there are (at least) two kinds of movie critics. One kind is the Ebert kind, who tells us which movies to go see. The other kind is that academic kind like Cahiers du Cinema which doesn't serve as a viewing guide but acts as a way to analyse films beyond their entertainment value for the dollar.

    Both kinds of critics are valuable. They are valuable at different times. During the times when you are standing around in a store with money burning a ho
    • During the times when you are standing around in a store with money burning a hole in your pocket, the Ebert kind are the ones you want to listen to. During the times when you want to increase your appreciation for the artform, or see trends or underlying symbolic themes that some movies might share, or learn about the artistic effect of certain new techniques and technologies, or consider the relationship between the story of a film and the political environment that spawned it, or weigh the merits of attr
  • by BrookHarty ( 9119 ) on Monday November 10, 2003 @01:19PM (#7434991) Journal
    I noticed a trend lately that reviews will actually downgrade a game if it's too normal. FPS's (first person shooters) are extremely susceptible to this. The game play can be great, the weapons a good variety, maps decent, but the game play is solid, it gets a mid range to sub-par rating. Not everything had to be ground breaking to be a good game, and game reviewers are biased on personal experience to such a degree, that games can be rated negatively just on its genre.

    I agree with the article, that some standards should be put in place, more technical than feeling should be the first rule, then give a mandatory Fun factor.

    Also, I'd like to see a review site with more on 3rd party budget games, ones that cost 9.99, kid games, educational, more complete, and links to buy. And a link to the developer and distributor, may sites seem to skip putting who made the darn game.

  • They have multiple people giving there two bits about the games. Each reviewer has various game genres that they like and dislike..

    The guy who loves FPSs is going to review a RPG alot different than the guy who loves RPGs.

    The personal angle shouldn't be removed from reviewing but it definately should take the backseat to the actual game play aspects.

  • by MBraynard ( 653724 ) on Monday November 10, 2003 @01:35PM (#7435142) Journal
    I use to write game reviews for the now defunt Well Rounded. It was very challenging to write for some games, especially games that I didn't like, but keeping a simple philosophy in mind was a lighthouse that helped guide me.

    Specifically, the purpose of a game review is to allow the reader to determine whether or not to plunk down ~$50 for it. If games were free, there would be no need for reviews - people could try them out and keep or discard them at whim. But since $50 is real money to most people (and EB Games is cracking down on it's generous return policy), folks need to be careful not to spend their money on something they wouldn't enjoy.

    And there's one other thing I kept in mind: there are games that some people will enjoy but others will dislike, and a review should be of use to both people. In other words, the same review must both clue-in people who will enjoy the game and ward off those who will not.

  • I really don't see a problem with the game reviews I read. Now I know some of you may disagree with their ratings and opinions, but IGN [ign.com] has well-written reviews that cover just about every aspect of the game. A high profile game like Final Fantasy X-2 or Prince of Persia will usually be around 5 pages.

    On the other hand, smaller fansites like Insert Credit [insertcredit.com] have reviews that aren't based on the normal categories, but unfortunately the reviews are not timely enough to make the important purchasing decision on
  • I think the biggest difference is that the game industry is still in its infancy, unlike books or movies which are either refining a craft that is ancient, or building on a legacy of past success into new areas. The reviews that focus on technical aspects are there becuase many games have terrible post production. Imagine the reviews if a movie had several scenes with production cast visible, obvious edit marks, and other pretty uncommon errors. It would be soundly blasted, except of course if it were by
  • it's difficult... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by jermyjerm ( 705338 )
    As much as I'd like to watch movies or play games for a living, I don't really envy reviewers their job, because no matter what a reviewer writes, there's always going to be a number of people who disagree (and will be inclined to share their feelings with the reviewer in question).

    I assume this is why sites like IGN write long winded reviews detailing every technical aspect of a game, while often avoiding subjective claims such as whether it's actually fun to play or not. While this will keep them out of
  • When was the last time you decided to see a movie based on a movie review?

    Listening to a film critic is much more informational and elightening than going based on what the previews look like. The film critic's job isn't to appear snooty and elitist, but to know about film what makes the movies work.
  • It seems telling to read that guy's column, and hear him discuss how anything under an 8.0 on Gamespot is considered a "bad game". What kind of skewing is this? That leaves no room to truly distinguish between good and great games. The average game should be right at a 5.0. That leaves plenty of variation for worse and better games to be categorized. As it is, yes, you can tell a game is a stinker if it gets a 2.5. But when a difference between 3.0 and 4.0 is less than the difference between 8.6 and 8
  • Personally, the more I think about it, the more I like the Neversoft guy's idea of a blog style review [slashdot.org].

    Let's face it, we don't really know much about a game review past what it says. We don't know the conditions under which the game was played. We don't know if it was a preview build that the reviewer played in a warehouse for 20 minutes somewhere or if he got to spend the 80+ hours it takes to go through some of the longer RPGs. And isn't that important?

    The obvious difference between a game and a
  • If movie reviewers are writing to each other, then game reviewers are writing to the game publishers who payola them. I have yet to see an awful game savaged the way it deserves in an online review, and only occasionally in a print review. Bad movies, on the other hand, garner plenty of bad reviews:

    "At the risk of understatement, The Matrix Revolutions sucks."
    - Peter Travers, Rolling Stone (review online [rollingstone.com])

  • by superultra ( 670002 ) on Monday November 10, 2003 @07:23PM (#7438729) Homepage
    Delaney's absolutely right, but he didn't seem to offer any solutions. Here's one:

    First of all, there needs to be a sort of academic overhead to video game analysis. I think our great hope in this is the imminent rise of Ludology [ludology.org] and video game theory. By and large, video games are still generally regarded within the academic community as, well, non-academic. This notion needs to be challenged, by academics and professional review writers alike. When this "aura" of justification occurs, it will result not only in better writing within game reviews, but also a focus on critique, or true critical analysis, and less focus on screenshots or graphics. At a recent video game developer's conference, the head of Naughty Dog stated that the industry had reached a point of diminishing returns in respect to graphics, and that the focus now ought to be on storyline and character development. Likewise, so too should reviewers begin to shift focus away from the technical aspects of the game, despite Kasavin's insistence that these are "indelible qualities of gaming." He's technically right, but he's also wrong. They're indelible, true, but only because the entire focus of the game media (Gamespot very much included) is on these same indelible qualities of gaming. Don't believe? Open up your favorite gaming magazine or website, and see how much of a focus there is on screenshots. That kind of visual attention doesn't even happen in film media, which is at least as visual as gaming. When it does occur, it is done so with focus and intent by the studios, not the sprawling bi-daily update of screenshots that is so emerged within the game industry.

    Secondly, we need a new word. Moving pictures found the word "film" to escape the pure entertainment association, video games need something akin to "film" but still connotative of the properties of video games. I know there are some, including John Carmack, who think that video games cannot and should not attain to anything higher than entertainment. And indeed, entertaining games is no less noble than games "with purpose." Nevertheless, saying that video games' sole purpose is to entertain is like saying that all paintings should be pretty and nice to look at, or that all books should be "fun" to read. Video games are a method, a medium, a means unto an end, and not the end itself. Can they communicate "entertainment"? Obviously, but the realization among game developers should also be that they can communicate or impart other abstract ideas as well, apart or alongside entertainment.

    Thirdly, the industry itself needs to allow padding for games that are not purely entertainment driven. I think that the Japanese have this idea, hence games like REZ or Pikmin; games that I'm sure the publishers knew won't sell GTA3 numbers but they publish and develop as an expression rather than an attempt to make sales. The Japanese, and European to some degree, do this with intent, whereas American gaming companies do it completely unintentionally. This needs to change.

    Basically, the entirety of the industry needs a swivel towards an overall awareness of "abstract gaming." Reviewers, whether they are aware of this or not, lead the vanguard in this respect. Why is there a need of, for lack of a better term (and the complete aversion to using the word "artistic"), purpose-oriented or abstract gaming? Because the gaming industry is at a crossroads now. The comic book industry found itself at very much this same point in its journey and it took the wrong path. Instead of creating what was considered "niche" titles, as a whole the industry instead moved towards a purely sales-driven strategy. The end result is that it quickly quarantined itself within a subculture that it has never really moved out of, requiring nearly 20-30 years and Frank Miller and Alan Moore to deconstruct the genre so it could be reinvented. The movie industry was also at the same point, much earlier than comic books of cour
  • Maybe this is why Electronics Botique has gotten so into promoting pre-ordering games. It seems like everytime that you pre-order a game, you get some kind of incentive, usually more store credit for trading in old games. Just recently, I received an additonal 3$ trade in value for every game I traded in, and since I traded in 10 games, well, you can do the math... and all I had to do was pre-order SSX3 (which I didn't even purchase, I know it had great reviews, I just don't like snowboarding games). Mayb
    • I've also benefitted from the $3 bonus at EB Games. But they also give you that bonus if you buy a game off their 'New Releases' list.

      If you have a bunch of crappy games laying around the house, gather up 5-10, and bring them to EB Games when you are going to buy one of these 'bonus' games. Even a game that they were going to give you $1 for, suddenly becomes a $4 game.

      What I *really* hate is not game reviews that are bad- but all the game preview hype. I don't care what the concepts sounded like while
      • That's the beauty of video games, that the reviews pretty much make them or break them. I highly doubt Ico would have sold so well if not for it's critical acclaim. You can pretty much alwasy skip the hype and the BS, because the game is always hyped to death, but then the reviews tell it like it is.

        Also- I think that reviewers rush to get their review out- to be first, or at least not to be last.

        Oh no doubt, but they also receive games before they get released. I'd imagine if a developer thinks a ga

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