Mario Kart Double Dash - GameCube Savior Or Rehash? 110
Thanks to GamesDomain for its review of Mario Kart: Double Dash for GameCube, as the reviewer rates Nintendo's latest kart update very highly, but comments that "...more seasoned gamers may grumble a tad at the general lack of progress", a view occasionally echoed by the overwhelmingly glowing reception from other sites, reminiscent of the (cynically?) subdued positivity regarding Soul Calibur II's release. However, IGN Cube is more critical still, suggesting the game "doesn't progress far beyond the N64 version other than in the visual department... [and] introduces new imbalances to the item system", plus "has axed a few trusted control mechanics like the hop." As for the title's reception outside the U.S., EuroGamer rectifies IGN's downer angle, and C+VG reports significant sales in Japan, with a knock-on effect for GameCube hardware, and a similar effect in the UK for a Mario Kart-including hardware bundle.
But.... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:No hop? (Score:2, Insightful)
Lack of Progress = Bullshit (Score:5, Insightful)
The Mario Kart Double Dash that I played for the first time yesterday was a huge leap in progress compared to the SNES and N64 games.
First of all, the multiplayer co-op mode! Hello? Did you reviewers just not notice it? Or do you not know anyone else you can play it with? Lemme explain the co-op mode: One person steers, the other mans the weapons and does the power slides. And you can swap places! I'd file this one under "progress" people.
The reviews sound like this is Mario64 in GC graphics. It's not. This is a new Mario Kart game that represents the most progress in the series to date.
So slashdotters: Don't believe the reviews, they're mostly wrong. If you liked Mario Kart on SNES or N64, you'll love what they've done with it on the GC. It's that simple. If you don't like Mario Kart games, it's worth renting as the co-op mode might win you over.
End rant. Heh.
Re:Lack of Progress = Bullshit (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Lack of Progress = Bullshit (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, not exactly. The driver has to start the power slide, the gunner has to push the right direction to get it going. So they kind of split a behavior in half, which we might as well call a new behavior.
And besides, the technical aspect of how it was done is not important: it's the end result. Does it feel like progress? Yes. To me, it felt like an advancement of astronomical proportions. That's what matters, and that's what reviewers should focus on. Perhaps everyone is thinking as left-brained as you are, denouncing the progress because it wasn't an astounding technical achivement but rather a gameplay enhancement. An enhancement that improved the gameplay dramatically. Hence, progress. ;)
Re:Lack of Progress = Bullshit (Score:2)
Apparently, you've never seen Fire Truck [videotopia.com] (Atari, 1978)
Re:Lack of Progress = Bullshit (Score:2)
No, I never have. I will be 22 years old on the 26th of this month. That makes 1978 a bit before my time. ;)
My parents gave me an Atari when I was 9 or 10, though, because they were cheap and probably got a deal on it. However, I never played Fire Truck. But, Pole Position rocked!
Re:Lack of Progress = Bullshit (Score:2)
I was born in 1977, so you couldn't say it's in my time, either. However I lived in Santa Cruz, which has the boardwalk, which in turn has has and has long had a fairly sizable arcade. Actually, it has several, the smallest of which would be a respectable standalone establishment, but they've had a big arcade for a long time, underneath the Coconut Grove ballroom. The boardwalk has long been home to a great number of the old classic video games, and that one persisted for a long time, despite the fact that
Re:Lack of Progress = Bullshit (Score:3, Insightful)
hed.
Re:Lack of Progress = Bullshit (Score:2)
Re:Lack of Progress = Bullshit (Score:3, Insightful)
Umm, couldn't you say that about the vast majority of video games in general? People upgrade for graphics, not gameplay. The GB and GBA have great games on very wimpy hardware.
Perhaps I'm wrong... can you point out a game that needs modern hardware for something other than its graphics?
Re:Lack of Progress = Bullshit (Score:3, Insightful)
More memory= larger levels without loading.
DVD media= more, more, more. More voice acting/more levels/better cut-scenes, etc.
Re:Lack of Progress = Bullshit (Score:2)
Faster cpu= Better enemy AI (at least in theory...)
Re:Lack of Progress = Bullshit (Score:1)
AI is one place which many games have been abysmal.
ie: Two guards, you blow one's head off, and the other just looks around and then lights a cigarette.
One of the reasons that online gaming is flourishing... but it doesn't mean that developers can be so slack.
Re:Lack of Progress = Bullshit (Score:2)
Re:Lack of Progress = Bullshit (Score:2)
Re:Lack of Progress = Bullshit (Score:2)
Re:Lack of Progress = Bullshit (Score:5, Insightful)
btw, egm says on their frontpage [egmmag.com] "Could this be the most fun game of this year? Probably."
here's, their complete review [egmmag.com] (10, 10, 9.5).
Re:Lack of Progress = Bullshit (Score:1)
You still have the problem with the computer racers cheating;
Each tournament, it seems one pair of racers is deified and can stay right behind you all race, every race. Theres also the auto-handicapping
Another Nintendo console, another Mario Kart. (Score:3, Insightful)
1. Multiplayer is where it's at. If you don't have 2 or 3 friends that will squint at their own corner of the screen, don't bother. Single player suffers from cheating computer opponents that are always a few mishaps away. It doesn't matter if your driving is average or perfect, once they are behind you, they will pass you the moment you make a mistake. Not fun at all.
2. Items are overpowering. Once you find out which items do what, you'll always go for the god-like lightning bolt. The items that require some skill to use are shoved to the side.
Mario Kart: Double Dash is supposed to support LAN play. that would be nice for people that already have Gamecubes and BBAs so it's a step in the right direction. I'll give it a chance before condemning it. Sure it's more of the same, but there are so many knock-offs that want to be.
Re:Another Nintendo console, another Mario Kart. (Score:2, Interesting)
You do realize the items are random, right? I think you've played it about once and decided it sucked.
Save your money (Score:2)
Re:Save your money (Score:2)
It's a good game (Score:5, Interesting)
In MK64, I've never been able to consistently manage to avoid slipping on a bananna peel. It was frustrating when I played against someone who could, as it made the peels useless. So I'm glad they took that out.
Item management is much more interesting now. You can now lose items by getting hit. If you hit people the right way, you can steal their items. Dropped items fall onto the course, and become live. Really sucks to get a turtle shell knocked out of your hand, then have it land right in front of you and hit you as soon as you start moving again.
The two characters adds to the handling of the cart as well. Weight distribution affects turning.
I greatly disagree with IGN's comments that the courses are uninspired. Although they seem to draw a lot from MK64's ideas, I find the new courses more interesting. I especially liked the cruise ship course; I thought it was an interesting new course.
Although I liked Mario Kart 64, I never got into it as much as a game like say Smash Bros. I'm really liking Double Dash so far, I definately think it's a much better game than the previous one.
Quite honestly, I don't see how people can trash Double Dash but give Wind Waker high scores. Wind Waker was a step backwards compared to the previous game (lots of flaws in the game compared to past Zeldas...), but Double Dash doesn't seem to have any steps backward, unless you're mad that they've taken away the ability for experts to totally destroy newbies.
Re:It's a good game (Score:1)
I agree with this statement. Wind Waker was (is) a disappointment, and I play OoT much more often. Also, I never really liked MK64, but thouroughl
Best Cart (Score:2)
My favs:
In General, I really like the BulletTrain becasue it is heavy enought to not get knocked around, I like the Koopa's because of their shells, Toad for the shrooms, and Waluigi since he looks frickin' hee-lariuos. I also like the Bowmobile for the weight and speed, and the cadillac for better acceleration.
On the Sta
Re:It's a good game (Score:1)
Bad things:
- It's 2-4 Player hostile, they can't control the menus anymore, which is annoying if the 1st player is slow with selecting things.
- I think Nintendo wanted to make this game as simple as possible and therefore omitting a lot of user options.
I don't like that. Ever wanted to have a really fair race without all the items or with the same chances to
IGN rated it poorly? It must really suck, then! (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:IGN rated it poorly? It must really suck, then! (Score:1)
Re:IGN rated it poorly? It must really suck, then! (Score:2)
Even so, it still shows a huge disconnect between the site and the people that are supposed to give IGN money.
Re:IGN rated it poorly? It must really suck, then! (Score:2)
All reviews are objective (Score:2)
That said, a difference of 2.8 on their rating scale is pretty damn big. We have to remember, though: all ratings are subjective. There are some people out there who probably think that KAR and MK:DD are the Cube's two best games. Obviously, they don't work for IGN.
Anyone can hate any game for any reason. (The previous sentence also works great when you replace "hate" with "like," "love," or their i
Multiplayer progress (Score:2, Interesting)
Now, having said that, multiplayer is great. The new battle modes are fun...having the 2 characters per kart is a nice addition. Everyone sitting around playing this game is a total blast.
This game is all about the multiplayer. Heck, while the single player mode was fun in MK64, multiplayer was the reason it stayed in my N64. And the same will be for DD.
I wasn't going to purchase this game at all a couple of months ago.
As a fan... (Score:5, Interesting)
First of all, the levels are a little repetitive of the 64 version yes, but that doesn't mean that they aren't fun. The Cruise Ship level is a blast, as is the DK race. Wario's track is amazing too, so much chaos all at once.
The single player mode still suffers a little bit from cheating AI. They'll really nail you when you get out in front, especially 150 cc. I still haven't gotten the gold in all of them yet, after several hours of play (read, stayed up all damn night). But who cares, it's all about the multiplayer anyway.
Multiplayer quite simply rocks. The challenge of the races with friends on your tail is an absolute blast. So are the baloon and bomb modes, though the Shine mode of play leaves something to be desired.
Coop mode on multiplayer is definitely revolutionary in the Mario Kart world. Having eight guys play on two cubes is a blast and a half. The cooperation with your partner keeps the game fun practically forever. I love the fact that you can play on 8 cubes with 8 people, though I have yet to experience it, I'm sure we will.
All in all, a great buy, well worth the money. As a college student, nothing better on the weekends than getting hammed and playing great party games like this one.
hed.
Seven Years? (Score:4, Insightful)
PS - Please don't bring up third-party Internet hacks/workarounds. Nice as such solutions might be, they don't measure up to building the capability into the game from the ground up.
Clarification (Score:3, Insightful)
Lemme get this straight.. out of ALL the things in the game that could be complained about, IGN goes and complains about the removal of the HOP?! Wtf? What are they going to give Half-Life 2 a bad rating if the crowbar is not in the game? Will they shun the Metal Gear series if they don't use boxes anymore? Jeez, talk about nitpicking.
Re:Not for anybody who played the first one (Score:3, Informative)
In 64 if you timed the jump perfectly the attack would go under you, but the timing was dicey at the best of times. I played a lot of the game, and if I saw the attack coming I could hop it maybe a quarter of the time.(If I wasn't drunk which I usually was when playing multiplayer) Anyone who claims you could hop anything all the time is a liar.
DD has a lot of ways to avoid taking hits. Red shells can actually be out manuvered now, and you can still take them out with ano
No hop, no big deal (Score:1)
It wasn't exactly possible to consistantly use the hop for defense. You could succeed once in a blue moon, but dodging and power sliding were much more effective. So the removal of the hop, in my opinion, is no big deal.
The item dragging, on the other hand, was pretty useful, but trading that off, for the 2 person kart was worth it in my opinion.
Deja vu... (Score:3, Interesting)
Yet all these years later I still play and love MK64. I fully expect history to repeat.
I like it... (Score:2, Interesting)
Compared to SMK, there is a lot of advancement here. Sure, I really miss the ghost tracks and the feather, but the feel is most definitely still there. As I never touched the N64 version (never touched an N64 period), I can't compare it. But does it have to be a huge revolution
DRIFTING the hop (Score:3, Interesting)
Why should I care? (Score:3, Insightful)
Why, exactly, would "it's too much like Mario Kart 64" be a problem to me?
I basically view the Gamecube and its games as the N64 if the N64 had been done right, anyway.
I do think it's too bad you cannot jump, though, furiously hopping around was my favorite part of Super Mario Kart.
An experts review. (Score:3, Insightful)
The two characters per cart is good idea though, and while the intial selection of carts is a little thin, there are a lot of aditional carts to unlock and even 4 hidden characters. The hop? no real loss there. With it's omission the steering becomes a bit more responsive since you can enter a power slide that much quicker. Not being able to hold an item behind the cart elminates some of my old cheese tricks (like lag back, get an invulnerable spinny shell and then hold it behind you for a indestructable rear shield and a melee attack) 2 of the default battle arenas are a bit lame, but the Luigi's Mansion arena is sweet. So all in all i think things balance out pretty good.
If you liked the other MK's you are going to like this one about as much so just go buy it already.
Does the computer still cheat? (Score:1)
Re:Does the computer still cheat? (Score:1, Informative)
It's easy enough to win cups at 50cc. It's not too difficult to win at 100cc, but winning all 4 tracks isn't a given. At least not yet. 150cc is another story. The computer seems to pick one of the carts (usually one of the big ones) to come in ahead of the other computer carts for every race in a cup. If you place 3rd in a race, you'll probably have t
Oh brother. (Score:5, Informative)
- The GCN version uses 3D models instead of the pre-rendered sprites like the 64-bit version did. The difference? Now you can choose your vehicle. Different character combinations result in different behaviour from the karts. Result? You can have your own individual style while you drive. Play a few races against a friend, and the difference slowly seeps in.
- The GCN version is much higher res, plus much smoother frame rate. That alone makes the multiplayer so much easier to play.
- The GCN version has the broadband adapter support. Presumably this means you can have two GCs in different rooms playing against each other. I'd *love* to play the battle modes without being able to see the otehr person's screen.
- The 2 driver addition adds some interesting subtleties to the game. For example, if you get bumped hard, the occupant gets dragged across the ground for a while before he hops back on. You notice this when you find yourself unable to swap drivers for a bit. Managing two items (one per occupant) really deepens the strategy to the game. My gf was a littler perterbed at me last night because I held on to a fire flower until the end of the race. I blasted her just long enough to cross the finish line first. To put it another way, strategy in this version of the game has a broader meaning than it did in the 64 version,
- The maps are far more imaginitive. As mentioned before by another poster here, the DK level is a blast. (no pun intended.) Much more challenging, and entertaining to boot. It's hard to describe with words, but I can tell you that the map upgrades have been quite noticable.
- There are two more battle modes to this game than in the 64 version, and they are far more entertaining. Not only do they require more skill than luck, but at times they are quite suspenseful. When you play the star battle mode (the name escapes me) when you score, it takes a point from the other person. The goal is to reach 3 points. My gf and I had a lot of fun with that one last night.
This is just the stuff off the top of my tired mind. There's more to it, though lots of it is subtle. Take any of these features on their own, and it doesn't sound so exciting. Take the way everything wraps up together in one big package, and you'll find the game to be much more entertaining than the 64 version. It really is a cool game. Revolutionary? Eh, maybe not. But it's been years since a Mario Kart game was made, and the work put into this one shows.
Sometimes I wonder if reviewers are just jaded. I mean, if it was just a re-release of MK64 with high res 60fps graphics, I'd understand. There's a lot more here. The only real complaint I guess they could have is that, on a fundamental level, it's still the same formula.
Re:Plus (Score:1)
Untrue. In college, Skyscraper was our favorite for the 3 years we were playing MK64. We called it Deathscraper.
Some Thoughts (Score:1)
In fact, it was all relatively easy. We got through 150cc All Cups(all 16 courses in semi-random order) and got to Mirror Mode(reversed courses, reversed controls) before deciding to quit for the evening. Cooperative mode is great - we won quite a bit more frequently when he dro
It's highly enjoyable! (Score:2)
Flaws: well, some of the tracks are weak - I love the first three Mushroom Cup trac
Higher standards (Score:4, Funny)
I hope you naysayers will be just critical when Crash Nitro Kart comes out and doesn't present a massive leap forward in kart game technology. OMG teh tracks are uninspired! Coco has the same voice sample! why more crates again!
Re:Higher standards (Score:1)
Re:Higher standards (Score:2)
Personally I found the N64 version to be a huge let down. The graphic were mediocre, and lacked the simplistic charm of the SNES/GBA versions. The battle arenas weren't a patch on the original (block fort aside) and the
losing the hop... (Score:3, Interesting)
A blast (Score:2)
As for innovation, I think 8 consoles on 8 TV where 8 different people can play is pretty new*.
*XBox live and all those internet games not included.
Wait, wait, wait (Score:2)
"I think the Honda Accord is an innovative car and pretty new*."
*The Honda Accord and all those other cars not included.
Re:Wait, wait, wait (Score:2)
Sure I could have double-checked, but that would ruin the
Revolutionary? Baa... (Score:1)
MKDD is Great! (Score:3, Insightful)
There is a lot of talk that MKDD didn't push the game as far as it could have gone. That there were no significant updates to the game. And that it is nothing more than a rehash. My comment to that is, what did you expect? It's Mario Kart. It follows the Mario Kart formula. If it didn't, it wouldn't be Mario Kart. I even read one review that claimed it captured they magic of the previous MK titles, but then bashed it for being the same as the previous MK titles.
My friends and I played MK64 for 3 years in college. And even to this day, when I see those friends, we pull out the MK64. I've never played a game that had such a lasting value. I personally applaud Nintendo for making the changes they made while still sticking to the formula.
So if you are going to complain about it not being a big leap over the MK titles of the past, the least you could do is suggest what you would have liked put into the game. Complaining that it's just the same game is redundant at this point.
Re:MKDD is Great! (Score:1)
Mortal Kombat was called MK before Mario Kart was and, as such, retains the rights to the abbreviation.
Mike's weekly rant on the 'Cube (Score:2)
But that is what Nintendo is delivering these days, so lets not condemn them too harshly for doing it again. Lets look at things objectively here. The two most noteworthy (not best, but of note, ie good, innovative, etc) games on the 'Cube, by popular consensus, are Metroid and Eternal Darkness. NEITHER OF THESE GAMES WERE DEVELOPED IN-HOUSE BY NINTENDO. These were published by Nintendo, but developed by someone else, hell on a totally different continent. Frighteningly, one of them bares a bel
Re:Mike's weekly rant on the 'Cube (Score:2, Insightful)
You're pulling some kind of weird theory out your ass, but you are not actually saying anything. Facts? What facts?
It seems like you're throwing a fit, cuz nintendo games aren't marketed directly to you. (They market toward a child-friendly GENERAL audience)
If you don't like MK:DD, then say so, but lets keep this about the GAMES and not some lame consipracy theory.
Re:Mike's weekly rant on the 'Cube (Score:1)
Now do you have any facts to add or just more personal attacks? Didn't think so...
Also, whoever modded that content-free post as insightful should have their mod privledges revoked. He said nothing relevent to the topic, he only made personal attacks. I'm really starting to ge
Re:Mike's weekly rant on the 'Cube (Score:2)
Re:Mike's weekly rant on the 'Cube (Score:1)
We're talking about MK:DD, NOT your whiney-ass critiques on nintendo's image.
BTW - if you think nintendo had nothing to do with Metroid or ED's development, you're on crack.
Re:Mike's weekly rant on the 'Cube (Score:1)
As for your second point, no they didn't. If they did, you would not know of the names Retro Studios or Silicon Knights.
you're on crack.
Again, attacking the individual. The classic resort of someone who has no evidence to refute a point.
Re:Mike's weekly rant on the 'Cube (Score:1)
You said that Nintendo doesn't care about its games anymore. That's attacking Nintendo's image of making it a high priority to create good games.
Re:Mike's weekly rant on the 'Cube (Score:2, Informative)
Eternal Darkness IMHO wasn't all that popular of a game. Metroid Prime on the other hand was a lot more popular even though for some users such as myself it did have the occasional freezing problem.
Re:Mike's weekly rant on the 'Cube (Score:1)
Wizards of the coast used to distribute the pokemon stuff, then nintendo setup The Pokemon Company to handle everything pokemon and Wizards threw a hissy and sued them, claiming "patent rights to the concept of a collectible card game" - jeez..
It's here somewhere:
http://nrun.potchgult.com/2003_10_13.h tm
Re:Mike's weekly rant on the 'Cube (Score:2)
In October, the first full month after the price drop, according to that website, the Gamecube only outsold the XBOX by 80,000 units. I will work on the assumption that they will beat XBOX by the same amount in November and December as well to err in Nintendo's favor here. (This is not likely to be the case
Re:Mike's weekly rant on the 'Cube (Score:1)
Oh yeah? How about Mario Tennis, Pokemon Colloseum... plus the rumored sequels to Wind Waker and Metroid Prime? Any of those qualify? Any upcoming games that nobody but Nintendo knows about qualify?
Nice to know that you're so well placed in Nintendo's future release schedule that you can authoritatively tell us that Nintendo is done with releasing "killer apps."
Have you ever considered that you, Mike Haw
About IGN (Score:1)
I say let a person judge for themselves with a rental or trying out said game at a friends place before buying it yourself instead of relying on reviewer's.
In regards to jumping or hopping (Score:1)
Press Z to Jump
V19U-8TNC-0HPU2
AAXA-C654-4W5K9
U0NN-357W-HNN45
The other MK:DD Codes here [66.77.152.2]
I would imagine this code would come in handy especially if you absolutely have the need to hop and jump SNES style.
Haha (Score:2)
It sounds like the real problem here is a problem of pleasing the customer. In the case of video games, movies, music, and other entertainment there always seems to be at least two (although sometimes 3) completely different customers:
1) The masses - These are the people like you and me who just want to be entertained. The entertainment doesn't even necessarily have to be revolutionary or star-studded to do an excellent job. It just has to entertain.
2) The critics - Game reviewers, movie reviewers, magazi
The customer (Score:1)
I most definetly fall into this category as I ever rarely bother to read reviews at any rate. Which is why I have a medium sized library of over 14 titles for my Gamecube including the recent F-Zero GX which never stops entertaining. :)
I rented Mario Kart DD Last night (Score:1)
How could this one slip through the net?? (Score:1)
I have played lots of racing games, Diddy Kong Racing was an underrated classic - far better than MarioKart64 to an Englishman, anyway. I think this is because of RareWare's trademark awesome music, rigourous 3D-models and "natural driving control", all of which I am only now beginning to appreciate must be ball breakingly hard to pull off.
If Rare was not owned by the Bo
Re:How could this one slip through the net?? (Score:1)
For a while Nintendo listed "Donkey Kong Racing" on their list of upcoming titles, but that disappeared after Rare got assimilated. Quite the bummer, since it appeared to be the sequel to Diddy Kong Racing, in spirit if not in official designation.
I'd love to see N
Re:How could this one slip through the net?? (Score:1)
Music (Score:2)
Then there's the whistling transition music if you place 4th or worst after a race. I can decide if it's a catchy tune or the most goddam annoying thing ever. It certainly motivates me to place 1-3.