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The Almighty Buck Entertainment Games

Scott Miller On Making Max Payne A Success 41

Posted by simoniker from the it's-a-blast dept.
Thanks to an anonymous reader for pointing to 3D Realms founder Scott Miller's weblog entry discussing the reasons why Max Payne "was purposely positioned for success right from the start" . Although Miller, the man overseeing the ever-delayed Duke Nukem Forever, has now sold his share of Max Payne's IP to Take Two/Rockstar, he discusses specifics, including the choice of name ("A perfect name will convey something about the product... have good word-play possibilities for press and news headlines... and have a good short-hand version"), the hook ("The attribute Max owns is 'bullet-time,' like Volvo owns the word 'safety' and McDonalds owns 'fast'") and controversy ("Max Payne had a little, though it didn't get as much press as we thought it might.") He also reveals 3D Realms is "currently working with another developer, with a very similar relationship that we had with Remedy, to create another hit series (or so we hope!)" - an announcement is due in 2004.
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Scott Miller On Making Max Payne A Success More

Scott Miller On Making Max Payne A Success

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  • Foresight (Score:3, Funny)

    by Tom7 ( 102298 ) on Monday November 24, 2003 @09:23PM (#7553929) Homepage Journal
    Next time tell us how successful your product will be before it goes to market, and then we'll see how good your predictive powers are!

    Oh, wait, every company does this with every product.
    • Don't challenge the man, he's been positioning Duke Nukem Forever for success for what now, a decade? That's some positioning.

  • DK (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    "3D Realms is "currently working with another developer, with a very similar relationship that we had with Remedy, to create another hit series (or so we hope!)" - an announcement is due in 2004."

    that sounds too early for Duke Nukem Forever
  • [The game name] should be non-generic (avoid overused words, like "warrior," "shadow," "dark," ...

    I guess Shadow Warrior 2 [3drealms.com] is out of the question?

    The game was originally titled Dark Justice, as this well describes the game's theme.

    That's rather funny... Max Payne 2 had an episode of 'Dick Justice' on one of the TV's, where a fugitive cop went after the people who killed his wife. But instead of film noir style, it was like 70's.

  • Ownage (Score:3, Insightful)

    by wynterwynd ( 265580 ) on Monday November 24, 2003 @11:34PM (#7554938)
    "The attribute Max owns is 'bullet-time,' like Volvo owns the word 'safety' and McDonalds owns 'fast'"

    Um, well actually I (and quite a few other people I imagine) associate 'bullet-time' with The Matrix. Max Payne just happened to use similar effects in the game, capitalizing on the slo-mo hype following the movie. I'm not 100% sure if my timeline is correct but I remember there being parallels to the movie effect when the game came out. Oh I'll grant that's the big hook of the game. That and metaphors that drag out long enough to make Raymond Chandler [levity.com] develop a nervous tic. But to say MP 'owns' bullet-time is a bit presumptuous.

    • Re:Ownage (Score:4, Interesting)

      by actor_au ( 562694 ) on Tuesday November 25, 2003 @12:11AM (#7555158) Homepage
      They own the trademark for the expression Bullet Time. Thats why in Enter the Matrix(May all who worked on it burn in hell) called slow-mo sequences Focus, because they couldn't buy the rights from Remedy to use thw expression Bullet time.

      • Re:Ownage (Score:2, Interesting)

        by Anonymous Coward
        They own the trademark for the expression Bullet Time

        I was about to call bullshit, but I looked it up for myself and you're right.

        However, the name "bullet time" for slow motion has been associated with The Matrix since the year of it's release - 1999. If you watch the "Making Of" (which is on the DVD, and, I believe, first aired on HBO in 1999), that is exacly what the slow motion effect is called.

        It is interesting to note that Apogee filed a trademark on the term (twice) in May 2001. And then Warner B

        • Re:Ownage (Score:2, Informative)

          by PainKilleR-CE ( 597083 )
          Based on date of usage, the term should belong to Warner - especially since they originally wanted to do "Enter The Matrix" way back in 1999 (they approached Dave Perry of Shiny Entertainment but he originally turned them down).

          You seem to be forgetting that the original Max Payne was in development longer than the original Unreal, or about half as long as DNF. Most of the people following the game saw 'bullet time' demos long before the Matrix was in theaters.
          • Does it matter? 'Bullet Time' is so overused that the word itself makes most people retch, and 'Focus' makes more sense in the fiction of the Matrix anyway.

            Both games could have used some serious pruning and editing.

            They both struck me the same way. Tons of potential, decent atmosphere, solid action systems ... lackluster execution. Max Payne had a decent story, i just couldn't get into it after the third hour of: room, room, kill enemies, load, room, room, kill enemies who didn't hear me kill their fri
            • Does it matter? 'Bullet Time' is so overused that the word itself makes most people retch, and 'Focus' makes more sense in the fiction of the Matrix anyway.

              Does it matter? Not really. But the thing that most people seem to miss is that the innovation in the Matrix' effect for this had more to do with the ability to pan around the scene than with the ability to slow down the shot and display projectiles (which were computer generated anyway). Obviously, when it comes to video games, moving the camera aroun
              • Oh absolutely, i agree that the filmmaking effect the Wachowski Brother's DP created for that film was earthshattering in its genre. In the game, it was certainly an innovative piece to add to a fairly straightforward genre game, but it wasn't -impressive- the way Matrix bullet-time was.

                I was just referring to the discussion about who came up with the actual name first, and who should own the tag 'Bullet-Time' as intellectual property.

                I'd heard MP was really short, and honestly that's the only reason i g
                • I was just referring to the discussion about who came up with the actual name first, and who should own the tag 'Bullet-Time' as intellectual property.

                  Realistically, given the track-record of 3DRealms and intellectual property (let's co-opt Evil Dead catch-phrases in Duke Nukem and then trademark them), I wouldn't be surprised if the term was made up by someone involved with the Matrix. That being said, I never heard the term outside of Max Payne press releases until very recently.

                  I'd heard MP was reall
                  • rockstar adding hard-disk music as a radio station in vice city for the xbox... that's the sign of a damn good developer. they didn't have to. we all know it. they'd have sold a zillion copies with or without it.

                    but that continuous attention to details... it's a microcosm of what they're doing right over there.

                    somewhere someone posted the cut scenes from Enter the Matrix online. there were plenty of mirrors right when people were furiously debating Reloaded and what Revolutions would be.

                    of course, then

      •
        I invented bullet time, trying to play games on my old 386SX/16MHz.

        Talk about slow motion.

    • Re:Ownage (Score:4, Informative)

      by gl4ss ( 559668 ) on Tuesday November 25, 2003 @04:38AM (#7556214) Homepage Journal
      remedy had demoed the effect(of slowing down the time) prior to matrix movie came(mp had been in development for quite some time by then, first publicly demoed as part of final reality in 1997 or so at the assembly, a demoparty held in finland). sure, matrix might have had something to do why it was a success and people could instantly like it, but not on it being there (and of course one 3dmark has a scene that is very matrix like). all afaik/iirc, the year might be off by 1 but i heard prior to the matrix movies about the features(of the engine, such as being able to freeze time and see the bullets mid air) from some friends who had happened to seen some private screenings.

      though, who they really 'own it to' must be woo(the matrix boys own it to him as well.. though he again might own it to somebody else i'm not sure where his ideas came from).

      .
    • I think he means if you were to think of a game with bullet-time, Max Payne would top the list. Enter The Matrix certainly didn't deliver very well.

      And in all fairness to Max Payne, it came out two years after the Matrix was released in theaters (Max Payne was released July 23rd, 2001, The Matrix came out in April/May of '99). You can't really say that it was timed to ride on the buzz, since any buzz from the movie would've fizzled out over a year and a half before. The Matrix's influence certainly had tak
    • I'm not 100% sure if my timeline is correct but I remember there being parallels to the movie effect when the game came out

      You are right. There were even references to The matrix Slow-mo in Maz Payne... in the end there are a couple of bad guys talking about how "All the cool movies make the action slow down... what do they call it.. oh yeah, Bullet Time."

  • And worth every penny. (Score:4, Funny)

    by El_Smack ( 267329 ) on Tuesday November 25, 2003 @12:45AM (#7555356)

    This is why Scott Miller is making the big dough. You or I would take a game we made and position it for failure, or mediocrity at best. Scott is that one guy in a million who would position his game for success. And he did it right from the start, too.

    Just another feather in the cap of the man who keeps Duke Nukem For(When)ever on task and on budget.

  • I'm having troubles finding out how the lawsuit ended against the makers of Max Payne (remember the ex-wrestler, who went by the name "Max Payne").

    How did that lawsuit end?

  • Scott Miller has always been someone I idolized since I was a young child. It started with a game he wrote himself, Kingdom of Kroz, which used ascii characters for graphics but was tons of fun. He later went on to make sequels to this hit game. Also, he used an idea revolutionary to software distribution called shareware. Each of the many games that came from Apogee(what later became 3D Realms) were sent out on disk or put on a BBS completely free with no requirement to purchase the software. However,
    • Piracy wasn't as rampant? I must disagree: Piracy has been rampant since 1981 at the very least, possibly even dating back further. Organized piracy via BBSes was common all throughout the 1980s and well into the early 1990s; shareware was as pirated as commercial, and ignorance or lack of care on the part of BBS operators led to a lot of registered shareware on regular bbses.

      The 'rampant' piracy of today is a little less hidden than it was, but casual piracy hasn't changed in twenty years.
  • guys.. he's just revealing branding 101

    there really isnt anything world altering that hasnt been said a thousand times before, and by more humble orators.

    - in a world of copycats, it helps to be unique
    - be smart about your product
    - keep it simple
    - keep it buzzworthy
    - ObPROFIT!


  • To think Miller 'set up' Max Payne to succeed because of these marketing hallmarks, without giving credit to the solid story, voice acting, graphics, and well honed gameplay... that's just silly.

    All Miller seems to be doing is hyping up marketing's importance in making video games sell better. Yes, those are all great focus points for making a game -easy-to-market-. They don't however have anything to do with the game's actual success, or whether it 'leads' or 'follows'.

    It's certainly more difficult to
  • The game should not be too long, or complicated -- avoid colons and dashes, as these are complications and often indicate a name that's too long
    Say, what was the name of the sequel to Max Payne? Just curious.
  • I was on the 3D Realms site in... '96? I was trying to find a patch for something. I saw on the 'soon to be released' list Max Payne (when it's done), a title they didn't give the name of (Balls of Steel) and Duke Nukem 4 (when it's done)

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