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PlayStation (Games) Entertainment Games

Adult Games, Child's Play? 52

Posted by simoniker from the rayman-with-the-plastic-bag-in-pacland dept.
Thanks to TotalGames.net for their gamesTM-reprinted piece discussing whether games are actually dumbing down in the industry's rush to produce mature titles. The editorial is concerned that "adding a spot of claret and some unguarded language to your game doesn't require any special artistic skill on the part of a developer." The writer then worries that "...those developers whose bread and butter has traditionally been more abstract titles where the gameplay is the hook and the graphical stylings are aimed at younger gamers, or at least at a general audience, are starting to find their games harder to sell." But original Grand Theft Auto creator Dave Jones thinks that "it's not violence that's selling but simplicity", even for his own series, arguing: "GTA has a very simplistic game mechanic - it is Pac-Man. The people are the dots you eat (run over) and the police the ghosts who chase you", although admitting: "What was different was the level of interaction within the city."
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Adult Games, Child's Play? More

Adult Games, Child's Play?

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  • PacMan? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 25, 2003 @02:40PM (#7561082)

    ...it is Pac-Man. The people are the dots you eat (run over) and the police the ghosts who chase you.

    Ms. Pacman, then, would be the prostitute?

  • This is nothing new (Score:3, Insightful)

    by vasqzr ( 619165 ) <vasqzr@@@netscape...net> on Tuesday November 25, 2003 @02:44PM (#7561121)

    Good graphics != good gameplay

    Games with bad graphics, when they had to make the gameplay good, because thats all they had, are still played today.

    I can think of a lot of games that had breathtaking graphics but you couldn't force me to play twice, because they were just so bad.

    • I dunno. My Atari 2600 felt pretty cutting-edge at the time. Never really thought of it as "all they had" at the time.

      And, there were plenty of games back then that you couldn't force me to play twice, because they were just so bad. Limited graphics or not.

      Designers will either take advantage of the tools available to them or not. That's what's not new. IMHO.

      • There were tons of bad Atari 2600 games. Remember a million cartridges buried in the desert? Remember the big video game crash of the 80's?

        Not all games were good back then, just like now.

        But, it wasn't the case where you could cram a CD full of snazzy FMV and try to pass it off as a game. Remember when CDROM drives first took off, and everyone wanted to make the next Myst?

        Back then, they had to do it with flashy box art.

        The good games HAD to have good gameplay, they couldn't have good graphics.

        They di

    • Re:This is nothing new (Score:3, Interesting)

      by brkello ( 642429 )
      Good graphics != good gameplay

      True.

      Games with bad graphics, when they had to make the gameplay good, because thats all they had, are still played today.

      I have to disagree with this. There is some stupid misconception that games back in the day were better because there was less emphasis on graphics. But guess what, the "bad graphics" you are talking about were cutting edge based on the system and the sophistication of the industry. Bad graphics != good games. Good games == Good games. Graphics
  • Well ill have to say that in this day and age games are alot more simpler then back in the old days of Leasure suit larry and other Adventure games.. its strange.. i find that alot of the old games are my 386 are more challanging.. then the console ps2.. i can't say more effort needs to be put into game then graphics.. cuz as much as the old saying goes "Don't judge a book by its cover" its false in the video game industry.. So many of times i have walked into EB Games and walked out with something that Lo

  • video games -are- growing up. if we'd let them. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by *weasel ( 174362 ) on Tuesday November 25, 2003 @03:16PM (#7561492)
    GTA itself -was- pacman. it also sucked. it wasn't until Vice City that they really explored the full range of gameplay. With the depth they added, with the polish and the honest attempt to tell a story that just happened to fit with their existing gameplay, -that- is when rockstar struck gold.

    When you abstract Vice City out to the level of 'pac man', then everything is pacman. Get the power up, win the game.

    right now, gaming only has (predominantly) kids and young adults - and they (predominantly) are more into slickly produced action, sex and sports than, say, a good noir detective story. so clearly that's where publishers are going to pit their efforts. do you see movie studios backing anything truly new?

    if we try to impose some sort of artificial limit on what is good content and what is 'pandering' - then we marginalize the entire industry.

    the mainstream American Comics scene managed to marginalize itself entirely with the Comic Code of the 60s - 90s. Contrast the current american view of comics (no matter what the story, a guy holding a comic book is an immature dork) versus the japanese view of anime (where it is the content of the anime itself that matters).

    Porn and Predator do not diminish all 'mature' film - so why should bmx xxx, or quake 3 diminish gaming's legitimacy?

    Right now, gaming is dominated by big publishers, like film is dominated by big studios. We don't have an underground scene yet, and quite frankly we are only recently able to attract actual actors and writers to work in our media.

    Innovation will happen, and 'mature' content will find its niche and push the media. In the meantime, yeah, predominantly it's going to be the 'formula', and slight variations that get pumped out.

    And quite frankly, that's probably the way it will always be. The only difference we can hope for, is that after enough true gems come out these articles will stop claiming that when a publisher produces DOAX that it is proof that all video games are only shooting for that audience, and only fit for that audience.

    People thought early cinema was a bastardized media, incapable of telling a story like a good novel or a play. and partially they were right. The thing is, by being able to explore they eventually found stories they could tell that no traditional medium could.

    All this is, once again, is the old guard trying to convince everyone that this new fangled stuff is all rubbish and incapable of telling a 'proper' story. Time will be on our side so long as we don't fall for it.
    • You do realize Vice City was exactly the same as GTA III, but in a different setting, right?
      • haven't played gta3. i'm an xbox owner and only recently got the doublepack.

        i played gta1 and 2 on the pc and was not impressed.

        if the leap from blind mayhem to story-supported mayhem happened from gta2 to gta3, then ok.

        but i maintain that just adding in the rpg elements made all the difference in the world.

    • GTA itself -was- pacman. it also sucked. it wasn't until Vice City that they really explored the full range of gameplay. With the depth they added, with the polish and the honest attempt to tell a story that just happened to fit with their existing gameplay, -that- is when rockstar struck gold.

      This strikes me as so preposterous that I almost can't tell if you're serious. Yet...

      When you abstract Vice City out to the level of 'pac man', then everything is pacman. Get the power up, win the game.

      That's exa

      • i thought GTA1 sucked. if that's preposterous, i don't know. it's my preference, it's the way the game struck me when i played it. It didn't have the unifying attention to detail and theme that vice city had - the right balance of story, nonlinear action, polish and gameplay that pulled it up above mindless violence (just as half-life pulled fps beyond simple quake fests).

        GTA2 struck me as a slight update on GTA1. Along the lines of q2 as an update to q1 -- some new stuff, sure, but not 'new' on the whole.
        • i thought GTA1 sucked. if that's preposterous, i don't know. it's my preference, it's the way the game struck me when i played it. It didn't have the unifying attention to detail and theme that vice city had - the right balance of story, nonlinear action, polish and gameplay that pulled it up above mindless violence (just as half-life pulled fps beyond simple quake fests).

          Just a quickie -- I apologize for that. Many folks use mean "GTA3" when they say "GTA", and I mistakenly presumed you were doing this.
    • you hit on a lot of good points, but it's not all about the story... it's not all about the content. You can't say that any one thing makes a great game. You can't boil down the essential elements. If you do, then FF3 was just a game about getting items and picking stuff from menus.

      I know that people tend to fall in for graphic polish or beautiful music and they miss a lot of deep gameplay. Well, I'll be the first to stand up and say that I'm a graphics whore. I love games with pretty graphics... or
  • I think the article's author just got hung up on the word 'mature'. A game with an M rating reflects content you're more likely to see in an X-rated movie. Last time I checked X-rated movies weren't winning any Oscars for writing, directing, or acting.

    So, yes, the article is correct. 'Mature' really should be 'Sophomoric'. But, since we all know what it really means, who cares?
    • Midnight Cowboy

      The exception that proves the rule. :)

      And it's certainly possible for an M game to get that level of quality, depth, and maturity. But right now the rating itself appears to be the goal.
    • Not quite. The ESRB has a separate rating for adult games ("AO" or adults only).

      Mature is somewhat comparable to "R" and a lot of "R" rated pictures receive accolades so it is fair to compare "M" rated games to mainstream cinema. I do agree that many M rated video games are unfortunately quite sophomoric - rather like R rated exploitation flicks. There are some good M rated games, however, like Half Life, MGS, and System Shock 2 that do not rely on boobies and crude humour.

      See here [esrb.com] for a breakdown of the
      • Thats exactly how it translates to the cinema ratings.

        I'd just like to add to the list... Return to Castle Wolfenstein, Halo, and most definetly Max Payne 2 (first game I've ever heard any game use the full range of profanity, including the f-bomb... go Rockstar!) rank as some of the most incredible games I've ever played that were rated as Mature.
  • No single element makes a good game. However, any one of story, gameplay, or graphics can define the audience that is appropriate for the game.

    Consider a game like Descent 3. The graphics and the story are pretty tame. Nothing there would prevent an 8 year old from playing the game. In order to play the game well, though a sophisticated grasp of controls is required. That is not to say that an eight year old can't have this level of control (and I'm sure it's becoming more common that they do). However, I'

  • And, To Me, Boxing is Like Ballet... (Score:3, Funny)

    by EvilXenu ( 706326 ) on Tuesday November 25, 2003 @03:34PM (#7561680)
    ...Except There's No Music, No Choreography, and the Dancers Hit Each Other.

  • Thanks Mom (Score:3, Insightful)

    by ArmenTanzarian ( 210418 ) on Tuesday November 25, 2003 @03:38PM (#7561710) Homepage Journal
    Yes Mom, all movies today are just bad language and gratuitous violence... sure Dad, no good rock has been made since the 70's... yeah Grandpa, kids today are much bigger trouble makers than ever before... blah blah freakin' blah...

    People have been yacking about this to get attention forever. Remember all the hoopla about Pulp Fiction? Well guess what? Pulp Fiction had a lot of violence, a lot of bad language, and also happened to be an incredible movie!

    But back to the main argument:
    People have always thrown useless elements into media in an effort to turn a quick profit. Books, movies, whatever... Ever heard of Deus Ex Machina (not the similarly titled video game)? Yes, grand sweeping plays that would just have gods come out of nowhere to resolve the plot. This certainly didn't help the flow of a play, increase the richness of the experience, but it got the audience home at a reasonable hour and it certainly made the authors some money.

    Yeah, people throw in bad words and violence to sell a couple extra copies, but don't blame video games or video game culture. Cost vs. content is as ancient as the idea of conveying thought and I hate it when someone portrays this as a new or exclusive concept.

  • Actually I think of GTA3 as (Score:4, Interesting)

    by M3wThr33 ( 310489 ) on Tuesday November 25, 2003 @03:41PM (#7561738) Homepage
    I tend to look at GTA3 as a game similar to Zelda. You have a complex world, free roaming, and some dungeon/quests to complete in order to get new items.
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • Re:Comparisons. (Score:2, Informative)

      by tibike77 ( 611880 )
      He just said the game mechanics is "Pac-Man"-like, and what differs is the level of complexity...
    • how can he say that GTA3 is anywhere near as simplistic as Pacman?
      Because he's not talking about GTA3.
    • Uh, I don't know about you, but I remember marble madness being more difficult than super monkey ball. I think I even loaded it up on an emu recently to see if I could play it, but I had trouble getting past the first stage.

      I might be speaking too soon though... I just bought super monkey ball the other day, and I'm only on advanced level 21. So far, I love the game. It's difficult but seems much less frustrating than marble madness.
      • It's difficult but seems much less frustrating than marble madness

        You're very, very wrong. The master mode/ master mode extra stages (is this monkey ball 1 or 2?) will make you cry. I have watched a friend lose hundreds of lives on one of those (Planets) before finally giving up.
  • It is said the average IQ of the human race is 100 (at least that was the ideea when they came up with). Under 80 and you're "too dumb for school" and anything above 120 and you're a intelligence beast... anyway, it's distributed as a "gaussian bell curve"... in case you don't know what that is, google it.
    No really, this was necessary.

    The world's population is almost 7 billion.
    The population having access to computers is (let's go out on a limb with assumptions) about half, let's say 4 billion.
    People th
    • the problem with your analogy is that video games span multiple age ranges, therefore combining multiple 'iq' values.

      e.g., a 14 year old with an iq of 120 may not be as smart as a 25 year old with a 110 iq may not be as smart as a 45 year old with a 100 iq may not be as smart as etc. etc.

      IQ is derived from a person's perceived 'intelligence' as compared to their AGE GROUP.

      The problem will solve itself as the young set grows up and demands more mature (in the not-porn sense of the word) and intelligent ti
  • http://maddox.xmission.com/contra3_owns.html

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