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Gender Inclusive Game Design Reviewed 44

Posted by CowboyNeal from the girl-gamers-get-their-due dept.
BWJones writes "iDevGames has posted a book review on Gender Inclusive Game Design that should prove an interesting read not only for game design, but also for the sociological perspective. I've long wondered why the game design community has not paid more attention to gender issues given that the gaming industry has now eclipsed the movie industry in terms of overall sales. While I am not a gamer per se, I am on the beta test teams for a couple big Mac development/porting houses. I have wondered how some of these games would appeal to different demographics and what the gender demographics were. I am sure that given the financial motives, this data is available somewhere."
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Gender Inclusive Game Design Reviewed More

Gender Inclusive Game Design Reviewed

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  • Well... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by GregThePaladin ( 696772 )
    Why market a game to one particular gender? Games like Beyond Good and Evil and The Sims seem like they're great for either sex, and both seem to be doing well.

    One thing I keep hearing from girls is that games like Barbie Horse Adventure suck. These people play The Sims, which dosen't seem marketed at any particular gender.

    • Re:Well... (Score:4, Informative)

      by BenSnyder ( 253224 ) on Monday December 01, 2003 @05:35PM (#7602819) Homepage
      If you'll RTFA (ahem) you'll see that the book really refers to gender inclusive games, not 'girl games'. The question you ask is one the book attempts to answer with a remedy.

    • Re:Well... (Score:3, Insightful)

      by justMichael ( 606509 )
      You seem to have both missed the point and hit it on the head in the same post.

      The book is not about developing games marketed towards women, but more about developing games that don't drive them away.
    • I got that Barbie game in a pack of NES games I recently downloaded. Checked it out because I'd heard about it as THE game for girls. Meaning, for a while it was pretty much the only game that had been written FOR girls, even though it sucked.

      It looked like a completely standard side scroller.

      You jump over stuff. The control sucked.
      Things hurt you. What I saw were floating tennis rackets. It was bad enough I didn't stick around long enough to find out whether there were weapons. Given the setting(Ba
    • Boys are typically content with fast-paced shoot-um-ups, but girls just don't like um. Girls like politics, drama, romance, and socializing....things that are very hard to get "right" in a game. Definately not quick and easy like so much of the game market is right now.

      I'm surprised they haven't given something like The Sims more RPG-like, or episode-like elements, and a bit more control. The only downside of that game is the time requirement...most moms [i.e. like my wife] don't have enough time to pl

  • Games are nowhere near movies in size (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    What sloppy journalism. Video game box sales are larger than movie ticket sales, IN THE US. Apples and oranges comparison. The DVD/VHS purchase and rental business is FAR larger, by itself, than the games business. If you're going to compare boxes sold/rented, movies win. If you're going to compare on-site viewings/playing then compare arcades with movie theatres. Again, movies dominate by a huge margin.

  • Where do you work? (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 01, 2003 @05:34PM (#7602810)
    From the write-up:
    I am on the beta test teams for a couple big Mac development/porting houses.


    Big Mac development ... you mean, McDonalds?

    Maybe you can ask that clown for help.

  • Gender bias in gaming (Score:5, Interesting)

    by angst_ridden_hipster ( 23104 ) on Monday December 01, 2003 @05:37PM (#7602843) Homepage Journal
    So I wrote a puzzle game for the Palm Pilot. It involves simple geometry, spacial manipulation of tiles, and a consistent (if arbitrary) set of rules for scoring.

    According to all the research, males are supposed to be "better" at spacial organization type operations. Whatever.

    In any case, 90% of the people who register the software, write me email, or confess to addition are women. I have no explanation for this. I don't understand it. But more than one woman has said that the game "intrudes into her dreams," and becomes an obsession to the point where it's disturbing. I haven't had one man say either of those things.

    I don't get it. But there it is.

  • Doom 3 will have this! (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 01, 2003 @05:39PM (#7602864)
    "You have encountered a level 5 Demon. Press A to attack. Press R to restyle it's hair. Press S to invite it to go shopping with you."

    • Re:Doom 3 will have this! (Score:5, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 01, 2003 @06:04PM (#7603150)
      As opposed to the current state of things?

      "You have encountered a level 7 Succubus. Press A to attack. Press F to post to a dozen online gaming forums looking for a code to make the succubus naked. Press M to enable the one-handed gameplay mode for 30 seconds. Press C to solicit cybersex from the succubus."

  • More Female Avatars! (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Saige ( 53303 ) <evil.angelaNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Monday December 01, 2003 @05:59PM (#7603096) Journal
    The review and book make a good point - that us women DO prefer to use female avatars when we're playing (exceptions for online play, where the harassment by the socially inept "a/s/l" types makes hiding the fact valuable). Yet so many games either don't give us the opportunity, having only a male character, or when they do choose, the choices, seem to be clearly made for 14 year-old boys, with women that are endowed as if they were full of silicon/saline.

    Diablo II is a great example of what there could be - three female characters, none of them looking ridiculous. Or some of the Quake 3 characters.

    It seems like adding such a choice couldn't really hurt the game in many situations, except for the FMV-loaded games - though even some of them could probably be done differently to allow that kind of freedom.
    • "Yet so many games either don't give us the opportunity, having only a male character, or when they do choose, the choices, seem to be clearly made for 14 year-old boys, with women that are endowed as if they were full of silicon/saline."

      To be fair, all the guys are muscular, tanned, and athletic. At least your side gets the fat chick.
      • To be fair, all the guys are muscular, tanned, and athletic.

        You don't get it. Guys can choose avatars based on either the "that's what I wanna look like" feeling (the overly-muscular and attractive avatars), or the "I wanna do that!" feeling (women who look straight out of a porn movie - often with matching wardrobe in fantasy games).

        Women don't choose based on the "I wanna do that character" feeling. And besides, it doesn't seem like a huge request just to have some realistic choices for avatars.

        At
        • "Women don't choose based on the "I wanna do that character" feeling. And besides, it doesn't seem like a huge request just to have some realistic choices for avatars."

          No, it really isn't an unreasonable request. Then again, what's the BFD?

          "And what the fuck is this supposed to mean? We don't want to choose the blond sex-kitten avatar so our only other choice is a fat female character? This is just plain insulting."

          It's a joke, and obviously you missed the point of it.

          Lighten up. If you're going to
          • "No, it really isn't an unreasonable request. Then again, what's the BFD?"

            I think the BFD is - there goes your gender inclusive game. She states the reasons why she would not buy a game that has specific gender biases and you brush them off as being trivial.

            "It's a joke, and obviously you missed the point of it."

            Maybe, but have you considered that she might not be the only one who missed the point of your joke?
            • " She states the reasons why she would not buy a game that has specific gender biases and you brush them off as being trivial."

              It wasn't my intention to brush them off as trivial, it was to let her know she's over-reacting.

              "Maybe, but have you considered that she might not be the only one who missed the point of your joke?"

              Ya know, I can kind of see how why she was upset. And I'm sorry about that. I really wish we could have settled it more tactfully, though. I really do care about feelings like th
              • I myself buy a game if it's good. I'll put up with the stereotypes, and most serious female gamers are used to putting up with them, and aren't going to exclude an entire game just because of poor choices of avatar. So such a thing won't cause me to not play the game - and usually, if the avatars are blatantly over the top, the game sucks anyways.

                However, such images are going to have an affect on less serious female gamers. When the game characters are clearly designed to appeal to teenage boys, the gi
                • " and usually, if the avatars are blatantly over the top, the game sucks anyways."

                  Were ya picturing Tomb Raider? ;) Man that game was dull.

                  " just that systematic choices in that direction by the game industry does strongly push an entire - and large - group of people away from games."

                  Hmm.. are ya saying it's sorta like a boys only club? I can see it working out that way. I think I have a clearer idea of why my previous comment was a problem. Probably felt like I was saying "who cares if women don't
    • My problem with Diablo II is they didn't leave a choice.

      I think gender selection should have been a part of it. Ever character on there could have been male or female, granted the Amazon would probably not be an Amazon anymore, but there could be an equal male Character. BTW, I used the Rouge on the first and the Amazon on the second.
      • Well, most of the gender singular characters in Diablo II had reasons for it, the Amazons because of the terrain on their home island, the sorceresses because they were a collection of witches, the barbarian because they probably followed a men fight women nurture society.
    • It seems like adding such a choice couldn't really hurt the game in many situations, except for the FMV-loaded games - though even some of them could probably be done differently to allow that kind of freedom.

      FMV-loaded? What's that?

      Yes, you are most correct in that most games could easily be created with either gender neutrality or an option to set the sex of the avatar. However, more difficult would be the establishment of story lines that might appeal to both genders equally. Sometimes it does not
      • FMV = Full motion video, refering to pre-rendered cut scenes. In games that feature a lot of them, it would be a significant amount of extra work (and disk space) to make a second set featuring a female lead. The only game I know that features this is Enter The Matrix, which gives you a choice of either a male or a female character, which have slightly differing stories.

  • Hasn't this been done? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by El ( 94934 ) on Monday December 01, 2003 @07:07PM (#7603857)
    I recall in the old Infocom game "Leather Godesses of Phobos", the first thing you did what decide which restroom to go pee in, which established your gender for the rest of the game. If you went into the ladies room, you got to rescue a hunky (but dimwitted) male later in the game...
  • I've played many female characters in games over the years. I most likely experienced my first video game cross gender experience with Ms. Pacman. Here's a list of games with female leads (or choice of) off of the top of my head that I've personally played:

    Ms. Pacman
    Choice of M/F - Labyrinth
    Razor - Maniac Mansion
    Alice - Alice in Wonderland (C64)
    Princess Peach - Super Mario Bros. 2
    Passionate Patty - Leisure Suit Larry 3
    Princess Rosella - Kings Quest 4
    Valkyrie - Gauntlet
    Samus Aran - Metroid
    Chung

  • An answer to your question: (Score:3, Interesting)

    by LordZardoz ( 155141 ) on Monday December 01, 2003 @10:30PM (#7605493)
    "I've long wondered why the game design community has not paid more attention to gender issues given that the gaming industry has now eclipsed the movie industry in terms of overall sales."

    Simple enough to answer. Game designers like to make games that they want to play. The team morale for a group of 22 - 30 year old programmers working on a barbie title is just slightly less enthusiastic then the guy who scrubs toilets for a living.

    END COMMUNICATION
  • if by gender they mean sex, then yes i think we could all use some more of it included in games.
  • As a transgendered woman I have a little perspective here. There are a couple of gripes here.

    1) Avatars -

    The Men - We get good looking buff avatars and you get hot chick avatars. What's the problem?

    The Women - All the males are playing the hot chick avatar and I personally wouldn't want 36EEE breasts. Why do these game programmers always program us like porn stars?

    The Misunderstanding - Men honestly think about sex a lot. Women tend to think more about love and honesty. Women often would like to portray

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