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PlayStation (Games) XBox (Games) Entertainment Games

Rockstar Censors GTA After Haitian Outcry 171

Posted by simoniker from the ulala-and-morolians-next dept.
Thanks to VE3D for carrying a statement from Take Two/Rockstar announcing the removal of alleged anti-Haitian content from future copies of Grand Theft Auto:Vice City, after a furore which started last month following a CBS TV segment on the game. The controversy, which even had New York's Mayor Bloomberg weighing in on the game's rival gang-related urgings to "Kill all the Haitians", has ended with Rockstar's press release indicating: "We believe that recent media coverage has taken certain statements made in the game out of context... nevertheless, we are aware of the hurt and anger in the Haitian community... we will remove the objectionable statements from future copies of Grand Theft Auto: Vice City."
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Rockstar Censors GTA After Haitian Outcry

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  • Haitians??? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 09, 2003 @10:30PM (#7676690)
    What about the Orcs? Nobody ever backs the Orcs. They get dissed in more games than anyone. How many other enemies explode on eye contact?

  • A moment, please... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ex_ottoyuhr ( 607701 ) <ex_ottoyuhr@hotOPENBSDmail.com minus bsd> on Tuesday December 09, 2003 @10:46PM (#7676811)
    This is getting just ludicrous. So not only is Manhunt not Adults Only, there's also no appreciable outcry about it, and the Rockstar game being censored is getting censored for a quote that sounds racist out of context, as opposed to being censored for, say, sodomizing a gang member with a crowbar. U.S. society is collectively insane. I'm not sure what variety of insanity (although I'd speculate a diagnosis of disorganized schizophrenia), but still... This is all getting disgusting.
    • Yeah, it's surprising and disturbing that Rockstar backed down on this. They are the company that makes games like GTA and Manhunt in the first place, you think they'd be used to dealing with stupid-politically-correct-protester criticism. Why do people give in to such idiocy as taking a quote out of context from a video game and claiming to be deeply offended and upset by it.

    • It's not ludicrous (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Chuck Chunder ( 21021 ) on Tuesday December 09, 2003 @11:02PM (#7676938) Journal
      It's valuable pre-christmas publicity!
      • Oh, had I mod points, you'd be +1 Fuckin' A.

        Folks, let's back down and see this for what it *really* is. Free publicity. Odds are that Rockstar dropped the "tip" about the racist comments in the first place.

      • Re:It's not ludicrous (Score:5, Insightful)

        by edwdig ( 47888 ) on Wednesday December 10, 2003 @12:26AM (#7677385)
        Don't forget, if you buy it after Christmas, odds are you're getting the censored version. So if you weren't quite sure before, you better buy it now or you'll be stuck with a crappy version if you change your mind later!
        • and it doesn't come out here till January 9th (god knows why) so I don't know whether it will be censored in this way or not. There's also rumours that the Australian edition might be censored in other ways in any case. For the most part I probably don't actually care though. As long as the game mechanics are the same I don't expect a bit of swearing/nudity/whatever here or there will alter my enjoyment much.

        • Not only do you have a censored version but you'll have a buggy censored version. Having worked in testing for parts of the games industry even a small change like that is going to start giving bugs.

          Knowing how things often get censored though there will be a patch that uncensors it in a few days.

    • Re:A moment, please... (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      So not only is Manhunt not Adults Only, there's also no appreciable outcry about it
      Yeah, just 10,000 articles and reports on network news shows.
    • I know, its absolutely sickening the way this censoring of absolutely everything is going at the moment, what is the problem of a fictional script mentioning a certain group of people? There doesn't seem to be ANYTHING really offensive in the context that quote was in, and the context is definitely important.

      Our freedoms are constantly being crushed, and this isn't one of those "freedom of speech says that, i should be able to run a hate group" things.

      Next thing you know there will be a law confirming tha

      • Re:A moment, please... (Score:5, Insightful)

        by seraph93 ( 560551 ) on Wednesday December 10, 2003 @01:46AM (#7677822)
        Don't people see that this sort of action is PROMOTING racism?

        They don't. Most people take the opposite view: that enforcing artificial distinctions between ethnic groups will somehow bring these groups together instead of keeping them separated. It's okay to use this word to describe these people, but not to use this other word to describe these other people; it's okay to run over or gun down people in a video game, but not if they're of this background; this TV show should appeal to people of this ethnicity, whereas this other TV show is for the other folks; and don't you dare offer any fried chicken to that guy over there, he'll get offended!

        We don't have separate drinking fountains anymore, and only the handicapped and the elderly have seats reserved at the front of the bus. But we have separate television shows, separate music styles, separate styles of clothing, separate vocabularies, and now separate mission objectives in Grand Theft Auto. Segregation never went away; it just got sneakier. The rifts between the races have become more semantic and less physical, but that doesn't mean that they've not there. And now they're being pushed under the label of "Political Correctness".

        You better watch what you say, and especially who you say it to. Don't you dare look at someone else and think, "Oh, another human being." You'd better make sure you categorize that person properly first, and think of the differences between you, long before you think of the common heritage that we all share as human beings.

        After all, you wouldn't want to offend anyone.

        • Re:A moment, please... (Score:1, Interesting)

          by Anonymous Coward
          You ignore a crucial point! That is: The "segregation" you describe is self-imposed. People of different races are not likely going to "become one" anytime soon. That would be taking the archaic concept of "America's melting pot" a little too far. I prefer to think of America as a huge pot of nabemono: Everything goes together well and contributes to the flavor of the stock, but the ingredients are meant to enjoyed separately for what they are. "Vive la difference," if you prefer.

          And you cannot resp

    • It's not just U.S. society but a good portion of western society in general. We want labels put on games, and nearly everything else, so that people won't be offended. It's like the "Parental Advisory: Explict Lyrics" back in the 90s (Or was that 80s old memory, so fuzzy, too little sleep).

      That being said have game makers, especially the small independents, adopt the "Parental Advisory: Anything Goes" style logo.

  • What about BF1942?! (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    In Battlefield 1942 to advance to the next level sometimes you have to kill all the Germans (based on World War II). Frankly I have more German friends on IRC then I do any other nationality.

    • Re:What about BF1942?! (Score:5, Funny)

      by Micro$will ( 592938 ) on Tuesday December 09, 2003 @11:54PM (#7677206) Homepage Journal
      With all the WW2 games out nowadays, I wouldn't be surprised if thats what they'll replace the Haitians with in the censored version. Hell, if they did that, I'd buy the game again just so I could hear German ghetto talk.

      Ja sind jene Weinerschnitzel die Bombe!

      Oh yeah, a Mercedes S class with hydraulics would be better than those slow Voodoos.

      • Re:What about BF1942?! (Score:4, Funny)

        by fuzzybunny ( 112938 ) on Wednesday December 10, 2003 @03:54AM (#7678297) Homepage Journal

        There was an _awesome_ scene in Medal of Honor, in the level where you infiltrate the German submarine pen in Norway. Dressed as a kraut officer, you walk past two troopers having a chat in perfectly accented idiomatic German; something utterly hilarious, to the extent of "I don't know why the Norwegians are all so mad at us, we just want to bring their chicks back to Germany to breed the master race."

        I'm a native German speaker, and I think I would have noticed any trace of an accent there, so I can only assume that they used real Germans to record the voiceovers. Frankly, I can't imagine a German voice actor not pissing himself laughing when asked to read something like that out loud."

        The BF1942 clips are actually pretty funny--I like the Italians best--it all sounds romantic and beautiful (Va fa'in culo! I have a headwound! Mamma mia, I love you!)

  • Remember kids.. (Score:5, Funny)

    by Stray7Xi ( 698337 ) on Tuesday December 09, 2003 @10:50PM (#7676842)
    Don't kill haitians.. thats racist
    Kill cops.. thats politically correct

    /sarcasm off
    Wasn't the point of the game to be crude and offensive?? That's what makes it fun. If they're going to censor themselves they have a lot of work ahead of them

  • Unbelieveable... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by este ( 600616 ) <este AT subtend DOT net> on Tuesday December 09, 2003 @10:57PM (#7676906) Homepage Journal
    I would understand if Haitians were the only ethnic group singled out for mindless killing, but honestly....at a point in the game, you actually -work- for the Haitians, specifically for the purpose of killing the rival Cubans. At other points in the game, you kill Italians, French, Colombians, hell, I think I even killed some seagulls. If one took killing people out (and don't whine about ethnicity - in case it's not obvious, -everyone- is part of some ethnicity), you'd have.....nothing. And if you have a problem with killing in general........ DON'T BUY THE FSCKING GAME!!!!! I swear, we need to hold a telethon for these people......
    • ...hell, I think I even killed some seagulls...

      So when is Take Two going to remove the alleged anti-seagull content from the game?

      Now THERE's a minority we don't want to piss off!

      *thinks of poo-splattered car* *shudders*

  • in other news.. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by TomSawyer ( 100674 ) on Tuesday December 09, 2003 @10:58PM (#7676908) Homepage
    Sales of Vice City spike up as the last few geeks who live under rocks crawl out to purchase a pre-censored copy.
    • Or for the hardcore geeks, the number of warezed copies of Vice City on the net have spiked.. again.

      On a more serious note, the fact that some warez servers (which I won't list for obvious reason) still hold and distribute the game while dropping more recent ones such as XIII and Max Payne 2 is quite notable. (I know some FTP servers that still distribute the older GTA3)

  • They Shouldn't Have Caved In (Score:5, Insightful)

    by illuminata ( 668963 ) on Tuesday December 09, 2003 @10:58PM (#7676910) Journal
    I don't believe that they should sensor themselves just because certain people become offended. But, if Rockstar and Take Two truly believed that it is their right to keep a sense of realism in their game, then they shouldn't have removed the content at all. They're already getting enough bad press from the game, which has helped its popularity anyways.

    Most importantly, because Rockstar and Take Two are censoring themselves in this manner, they have severely hurt the argument that video games are an artform. It's going to be much harder to have video games gain the same amount of artistic respect that movies and music have to the general public. Special interest groups will have a much easier time getting other companies to follow suit and self-censor as well, because now they can say "Rockstar and Take Two did it, why won't you?"
    • Yeah. Goddamnit, this sets a precedent that could screw over the whole Mature gaming industry. Way to go Rock*/T2 :(
    • If you think that they sensored themselves out of any self-realization that they have created something immoral or indecent, think again. The only logic that motivates a corporation is sales and profit. The rationale behind censoring the game is to not lose sales to customers sensitive or sympathetic to the complaining group.
      • Let's not lump every corporation into being in it solely for sales and profit. Of course, sales and profit are considerations because the people running the company would like to stay in business and live comfortably. However, many companies make their money because they don't censor themselves and stay true to their artform. Governments and individuals also have good and bad motives. I challenge you or any other individual or group to make a game like GTA: Vice City without keeping sales and profit in mind
    • Contrary to what many on the internet seem to believe, the First Amendment states that Congress is not to abridge the freedom of speech, which has been interpreted to mean that the government is not allowed to regulate speech. This was NOT the case here. Private groups of concerned citizens used their free speech to voice their objections to something which appeared in a commercial product. Seeing that offending potential customers is not the best way to sell more product, the creators of the product firmly
      • I never said this was a First Amendment issue, and I made it a point to mention that they self-censored. But, I'm not implying that you accused me of saying that it was. I just don't want anybody confused. Anyways, this would be a First Amendment issue if Mayor Bloomberg went through with an investigation.

        I'm not sure if the move was very smart, considering how much of this game's popularity came from controversy. This was indeed self-censorship. They pulled out the content despite feeling that the offende
    • Special interest groups will have a much easier time getting other companies to follow suit and self-censor as well, because now they can say "Rockstar and Take Two did it, why won't you?"

      They could just say that "Rockstar and Take Two" have no morals for caving in to special interest demands. We on the other hand stand up for the artistic first admendment right of producing entertainment forms that 5% will protest against but about 80% of the population own and enjoy. (O.k. maybe those percentages are re
      • I think it is deeply unfortunate that some people are so fucking twitchy that they wanted to get on Rockstar's case about a poor choice of phrasing. On the other hand, a few of the posts in this subthread have alleged that this is somehow a setback for videogames as art, or for "mature" games. I would just like to point out thatt GTA:VC is hardly mature because of it's content. In fact, what it makes so much goddamn fun is the sheer puerility of it all. The road to videogames that might be counted as ar

  • movie analogy? (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    what if this were spray painted on a wall in a movie like Boyz N the Hood?

    How is this any different?

  • Uh... what about the cops? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by MBraynard ( 653724 ) on Tuesday December 09, 2003 @11:01PM (#7676935) Journal
    Cop killing has been one of the most criticized aspects of this game, but the Hatian comment is what gets the changes made? And really, it's not that out of context of a statement, as there is an unfortunate and very strong anti-Hatian sentiment in South Florida that I have personally witnessed as have many who live down there.
  • when no one really complained about stuff like that? Remember the original GTA and running over the monks? Or the reference to "goomba" in Mario?

    Well it was different then than it is now. Today companies have to be more and more responsible because their customers are from all age groups and all walks of life. Rockstar Games isn't backing down from what they produced and they aren't silencing themselves. They are simply being socially responsible. A term that many angry gamers sometimes ignore.

  • Side Notes (Score:2, Insightful)

    by illuminata ( 668963 )
    The Voodoo Extreme article stated that Mayor Bloomberg said Rockstar and Take Two would be investigated for human rights violations. The New York Post article stated that Bloomberg said they would be investigated if Take Two didn't comply in removing the phrase.

    Either way, what human right is being violated, other than the right to free speech?
    • The Voodoo Extreme article stated that Mayor Bloomberg said Rockstar and Take Two would be investigated for human rights violations.

      Which would be really interesting to see, considering Rockstar North developed the game. In Scotland.
  • Corporate Office
    Address Phone
    Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. 622 Broadway, New York, NY 10012 (646) 536-2842

    International Headquarters
    Address Phone
    Take Two UK Saxon House 4 Victoria Street, Windsor, Bershire SL4 1EN 01753 496 600

    Primary Subsidiaries
    Address
    Rockstar Games, Inc. 575 Broadway, New York, NY 10012
    Gotham Games, Inc. 622 Broadway, New York, NY 10012
    Gathering of Developers 9900 Franklin Square Drive, Suite A Baltimore, MD 21236

    Sales Departme
    • ...if any. If none, I apologize.

      Frankly, I'm ready to write to them, and say thank you for making such a great game. It's rare you see a title where everyone has an equal opportunity to get shot in the face.
      • It's rare you see a title where everyone has an equal opportunity to get shot in the face.

        how true. not since Carmageddon [gamespot.com] have i been so tickled by the so-indiscriminantly-violent-i-cant-help-but-laugh thing. i mean, seriously, had Rockstar put in Polish dudes into gta instead of Haitians or god knows who else, i would have bought this game even sooner. i would not have been offended in the least, Polish heritage and all.
      • I posted a bit prematurely BUT I think people should write to Rockstar and let them know that caving to special interest groups does not make the people who buy their games happy. I want the developers of GTA4 to have full reign and know that the company will back them up with whatever they produce. I don't want self-censorship to be going on.

  • surprised? (Score:2, Funny)

    by s0rbix ( 629316 )
    Why is everyone so surprised? This is America! You can kill as many people in as many ways as you want, just as long as you're PC about it.
    • I think everyone is surprised because Rockstar caved.

      You're right - no one should be surprised about the uproar over it. Of course, the uproar is a bit late since the game has been out for so long now but we'll just ignore that fact. Doing anything that isn't P.C. is a good way to get people upset but Rockstar really should have stood up for itself. People do not have the right to not be offended. If there is a group of Haitians who find the game offensive (out of context of course), they are free not to bu

      • Re:surprised? (Score:5, Insightful)

        by s0rbix ( 629316 ) on Tuesday December 09, 2003 @11:55PM (#7677212)
        not all liberals are PC fascists. i am very liberal and make un-pc jokes all the time... i dont care so much when people are stereotpyed, and it doesnt bother me when a small group of people are offended over an out of context comment from a video game.

  • The PC Version... (Score:4, Funny)

    by Herkum01 ( 592704 ) on Tuesday December 09, 2003 @11:19PM (#7677031)

    They can replace the Haitians with elves and the cubans with reindeer. The main character will be Santa Claus and he only scores with Mrs. Claus, who happens to wear a bikini. Merry Christmas indeed! Or was that not the effect these people were looking for?

  • Literature (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Deanasc ( 201050 ) on Tuesday December 09, 2003 @11:25PM (#7677060) Homepage Journal
    Videogames are the next logical step beyond the Gutenberg Bible and Talkies. To censor them is to tell Falukner, Fitzgerald and Twain they can't make black people the servants in any novel. What's the point of writing if you can't tell the truth about the times you're writing about?
    • Its been a while, but I recall that some school board, a while back, wanted to censor Twain. Basically, they wanted to remove the word "nigger" from the book entirely. Now, I understand that it is a deragatory word, and for it to be commonly used in school might offend some people, but the use of the word in the context of a book about the South, during the days of slavery does help to provide a better view of how people lived and thought at the time.
      Also, I wish people would quit being so sensative abou
  • I've never actually played Vice City, but I have played all the other GTA games. If they're anything to go by, you'll definitely kill far more mid-late 20's white guys than anybody else. But I suspect that if I, as one of the above got up there and said "Oi, I'm sick of being in the killable majority" I'd get shouted down as being insensitive to minorities. Sheesh. Maybe there's more of us out there to kill, and I'm not saying that (some of) us don't deserve - probably more as a group - but I'm always b
  • So they've effectively shut up the critics by promising to remove the offending dialogue from all copies of the game produced at some unspecified point in the future after the ten trillion copies currently on store shelves have sold out. Pretty good move on their part if you ask me. Say, did Eidos ever get around to releasing the "censored" version of Hitman 2 without all the Sikh stuff?

  • A Small "Victory"... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Monthenor ( 42511 ) <monthenorNO@SPAMgogeek.org> on Wednesday December 10, 2003 @12:04AM (#7677254) Homepage
    ...but we still get to kill Cubans, right? Their lobby must not be as televised^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H powerful.

    Seriously, though, we should really be more concerned about the rampant genocide already present in gaming culture. [gerbilmechs.com]

    One last thing: why is the "strike" tag not supported? I can't be the only one sick of seeing ^Hs.

    • why is the "strike" tag not supported? I can't be the only one sick of seeing ^Hs.

      I was wondering what the "^H^H"s were. Now I'm happy. =)

      • Re:Wow (Score:2, Funny)

        by exick ( 513823 )
        Beware this is Slashdot. You aren't supposed to wonder those kinds of things lest ye be mocked.

  • PC or not PC (Score:2, Insightful)

    by nwanua ( 70972 )
    I'm surprised that nobody really seems to understand the context from the Hatian point of view:

    I think this form of censorship is along the same lines as a society censoring a public figure for making (even remotely) disparaging remarks about _any_ group. I'm sure we can recall an instance when some Mayor/Newscaster/Governor/Councilwoman/Banker/CEO made some (apparently) anti- (mexican/black/jewish/chinese/mexican/...) remarks and was taken to task to apologise.

    Now, one can argue about whether GTA is a "p
    • I'm sure we can recall an instance when some Mayor/Newscaster/Governor/Councilwoman/Banker/CEO made some (apparently) anti- (mexican/black/jewish/chinese/mexican/...) remarks and was taken to task to apologise.

      You mean like niggardly? [adversity.net]
    • There is a big difference between a game company and a 'public figure.' The public figures that get called for making racially insensitive remarks are generally those in the government and are therefore making laws that, if biased, could damage the lives of the groups who the figure disliked. A game company doesn't have that kind of direct effect on people's lives and livelihoods and should be allowed to express more extreme views, whether they company believes those views, is simply trying to reach a cer
    • 1. Grow a skin.
      2. There is a bit of difference here. One that you, and these groups seem to have missed: context. If a public figure makes a racially dispariging remark, he probably means something by it. If a fictional character (who is probably supposed to be racist), makes a racially dispariging comment, it is nothing more than putting a bit of realism into a fictional game, it doesn't mean anything. Fact is, people aren't nice, many of them say and do things that are hurtful to other people, and wh
  • It's a popular media topic of late. The story broke here in NY on CBS channel 2 news about a week and change ago. I figured it would boil over like the Doom stuff after the school shootings. On Monday I saw that Fox 5 was running a story on :: brace yourself :: Duke Nukem 3D! Just what I've come to expect from network news, timely, fair and balenced.

    I'm just worried that this sets a bad example.
  • Quit whining about Rockstar caving in. It doesn't matter anymore, GTA Vice City is out there, anyone who hasn't boughten the game by now will do so before the censored copies hit the shelves.

    Why should Rockstar fight in costly court battles when they could take 5 minutes and fix what people want to them to fix in a product which isn't likely to make them more money. Now that money that would have been invested into GTA Vice City can be invested into GTA Kill the Haitans.
  • END THE HATE!

    Join my petition.. demand that humantiy be taken out of such a wretched game! Rockstar must not use humanity for greed!!!

    <LI>http://www.petitiononline.com/havc/petition. ht ml</LI>

    Let them know! Let our voices be heard!!
  • END THE HATE!

    Join my petition.. demand that humantiy be taken out of such a wretched game! Rockstar must not use humanity for greed!!!

    http://www.petitiononline.com/havc/petition.html

    Let them know! Let our voices be heard!!
  • Screw them all... ... It's a FREAKING GAME!

    An ENTERTAINMENT EXPERIENCE.

    If you don't understand that you don't qualify to use the product - don't watch any movies either.

    Get a life!!

    No one would complain if it said "Kill Whitey!" - the f*ing liberals would say "We deserve it".

  • Perhaps Rockstar will maintain artistic integrity. Maybe in the changed text they'll include some clever jab at the critics. We can only hope. It sounds like something they would do.
  • ...hate everyone equally; but now I hate haitians just a little bit more.
  • I could've done a voodoo joke here, but then it struck me that fighting racism with prejudice isn't funny.
  • "Kill all the Haitians!" flows. The creators used those words -- that is what they felt would compel the player the most in that situation. Changing a single thing due to censorship utterly destroys the creative flow of the work. And GTA:VC was another masterpiece, from what I've heard, so this is really bad news. What's next, telling them to remove black and mexican gang members form GTA3? I never thought Take Two would cave in this fast. Here's a list of easy things they could have said to protect t

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