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PC Games (Games) Entertainment Games

On The Future Of PC Games At Retail 98

Posted by simoniker from the bye-bye-market-share dept.
Thanks to GameSpot for their article debunking rumors that EBgames and GameStop would entirely remove PC titles from their stores in the New Year, but still painting a somewhat bleak picture regarding the PC game's strength at retail. The article cites recent GameStop SEC filings showing "...just seven percent of its total sales were PC games, compared to 64 percent of revenues coming from console games." A games analyst also commented that, while a complete denuding of PC racks was probably out of the question: "It wouldn't surprise me if there was a pretty serious cutback in shelf space though, as that demographic is really only served by a handful of games." Although EBgames' top policy-maker clearly states: "PC games are and will continue to be a very important part of our business", with such a relatively small market share, where does the PC gaming market go from here at retail?
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On The Future Of PC Games At Retail More

On The Future Of PC Games At Retail

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  • Console Computer (Score:5, Interesting)

    by The-Bus ( 138060 ) on Tuesday December 16, 2003 @08:14AM (#7733402)
    Let's see, a quick run-down...

    1. Consoles are cheaper over the long-run. A new PS2 or Xbox is cheaper than most bleeding-edge video cards.

    2. You can rent and borrow console games. $5 gets you a couple of days to try/beat a game.

    3. Console games are more social. You play with friends along side you. Outside LAN parties, it doesn't happen often with PC games.

    That said, PC games still have some definite advantages (internet, mods) and strengths in certain games (RTS, RPGs, FPSs), but that's slipping all the time.

    My $0.02.
    • Those are all very valid points. Additionally, there is a huge gap between hardware requirements for most working purposes (Word Processing, Spreadsheet, E-mail, Web, etc.) and for gaming purposes.

      I can buy a PC for most things for around $200. Why the heck should I put hundreds of dollars more into a system just to play games that could more reliably be played with a $99 Gamecube?

    • agree 100% and more. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by *weasel ( 174362 ) on Tuesday December 16, 2003 @09:57AM (#7733978)
      your missed points are:

      4. Stability. You don't buy a console game on its release day, and then go home and download a 1.1 patch.

      5. Ease of Use. Consoles require you to merely pop in the game and go. there are never patches, drivers, installs, video/sound configs, or any of that stuff PC gamers put up with.

      6. Glitz. Console games are optimized to their fixed hardware. Halo on my xbox looks just like Halo on your xbox. I never have a friend tell me how awesome a ps2 game is, but find out my ps2 isn't fast enough to play it well.

      7. Integrity. in online console gaming, it is possible to guarantee that no-one is cheating. Add to that the consistant matchmaking interface and features across a console, and it's no wonder that MS can successfully charge for their online service. It's miles above the average quality level of PC internet gaming.

      8. Return Policy. Should a console game be found to be buggy, or even just not what it was advertised to be -- you can return it. This can not be downplayed. PC games cannot be returned in almost any case, yet console games can. Regardless of why (and we all know why) the point is that consumers will always gravitate toward the solution that is the most friendly. being able to rent, borrow, and return games is a gigantic benefit.

      At the core though, consoles and their games are intentionally refined for the mass market. Very smart people spend alot of time making sure they are as refined as possible. they are more like appliances than tools. It just shouldn't be surprising to anyone that consoles are the preferred mechanism for gaming for the mass market.

      PC games seem to have a market despite themselves. the hoops that fans jump through, the costs they deal with, the hassles of the menus and setup options, the limitations on the product the paying customer faces (in the name of 'copy protection') -- it shocks me daily to see how PC game fans put up with it.
      • Since you decided to bold it up and make it your most important point, I'll tell you now that you're flat out wrong. Game return policies are getting to be the same as CDs and DVDs, if it's open, it's not coming back or only getting exchanged for the same thing. Of course, this has always been the policy of big retail chains (Best Buy and Toys R Us to name a couple). The specialty chains are going the same direction too, they'd much rather have you trade in your games than give you full price back.

      • Cheating on consoles (Score:5, Insightful)

        by raygundan ( 16760 ) on Tuesday December 16, 2003 @10:47AM (#7734443) Homepage
        Actually, cheating on consoles is a bit of a mixed bag. If someone DOES find a cheat, the unchangeable hardware and software make the cheat unstoppable. SOCOM for the PS2 is a prime example of this-- the game has been ruined for online play by rampant cheating. And there's no way to issue a patch to fix it.

        That "fixed platform" is both a blessing and a curse-- if the software/hardware isn't perfect, you've got cheats set in stone.

        • Hence why Microsoft makes such an issue of controlling the back end of Xbox Live, and, of course, the joys of a hard drive to hold those lovely anti-cheat patches.

        • Once you have a service which is the single-sign-on point, you see that you can ban cheaters. You also get an audit log of everything and can require updates to games before letting people online. Beyond that, you can also require that the consoles which connect aren't modified to play edited game data (look around for the infamous Super Enzo Ferrari from PGR2 which lifts off the ground when it accelerates).
          • I agree that XBox Live! is great for busting cheaters (I don't play online anywhere else :)), but the downside is, how long with Microsoft support a title? They say "forever" but I find that unlikely. I don't think you will be able to dust off MechAssult 5 years from now and play it online (but, in most cases, you probably wouldn't want to).


            www.sugarskull.com

            • As long as games bring in money, the company will support the games that bring in the money. PSOv2 notwithstanding, the lack of payment was why the Sega Dreamcast online stuff shut down. I don't see Microsoft retiring a service that continues to generate profit.
      • It's the truth.

        When someone comes out with a major console that lets me play using mouse and keyboard (or mouse and "keyboard"), I will buy it and probably never play on the PC again.

        Until then, though, PC all the way. My favorite games are strategy and FPS, which just bite on those twisty controllers. I'll gladly put up with all the PC patching and upgrade crap to play my favorite games in the manner I want to play them.

        The low res on TVs bug me too, but that's a transitory problem.

        If you could play th

        • Re:agree 100% and more. (Score:2, Insightful)

          by Anonymous Coward
          RTS is about the only genre left that can appropriately leverage the keyboard in a good control scheme, and just a controller approximation doesn't quite cut it. (though goblin commander has an applaudable attempt at good-enough RTS controls. but their scheme does limit the scope of the combat through a too-low group-limit.)

          well that and the perfectionist sims, which have always been less 'game' than 'training module'.

          but, imo, the primary reason that MS doesn't push the keyboard+mouse is mainly percepti

      • boy i can smell the hickery sent already ;) (Score:4, Insightful)

        by vanillacoke ( 646623 ) on Tuesday December 16, 2003 @11:25AM (#7734878) Homepage
        9. Lack of options. There's one thing that everyone loves/hates its options. I like how the option of playing a game at 1600x1200 at a very high refresh rate with eye candy set to max. Standard TV's, while big are still outdated. My monitor is bright, large and less eye damaging then your average 24 in TV. (To be fair the xbox does theroticly support 1080i but you could not seriously play a game like halo on that setting. the reality is its can handle 720p)

        10. Controllers. They aren't the best input devices for every game. Have you tried playing a FPS on console?

        11. half-decade self life's. Face it. Consoles are going to die out ever 3-5 years. That's a 300-400 dollar investment in one shot. Some systems are slowly letting you play older games, but that may or may not catch on. Current unsubstantiated rumors of the xbox2 all indicate that Microsoft's going towards a largely proprietary system then glorified pc.

        12. Different systems. Hell you don't know what's going to be around in a year or so. Sega, 3DO Atari all died out leaving everyone high and dry... Plus now that games are shipped to all 3 systems which one do you get? The game cube get systematically jew'd with options that the Xbox and ps2 get (example: XIII. Of the 3 systems Xbox got xbox live support and downloadable content, ps2 got a lot of multiplayer features, and gamecube got nothing).

        13. Content lockout. I don't know about you. But I know I can buy a game from Europe and know it will play on my PC here in America. Not so with consoles. Either physical or software lockouts inhibits us from buying from other regions (say Europe or Asia) in attempt to preserve profits. The only modern system i know that doesn't lock people out is the gameboy...
        • I was not always a console gamer. In fact, I hated consoles for quite some time. My passions were always FPS, RTS, RPG and massmog. the linear eastern-stylized RPGs on consoles didn't appeal to me, and the other genres weren't represented. I didn't even own a console between the SNES and my XBOX.

          but i don't have the time or money to justify the kind of attention being a pc gamer requires anymore. and so i can easily see -why- console games dominate.

          and that's all i'm saying. i'm not saying why conso
        • 11. half-decade self (sic) life's. Face it. Consoles are going to die out ever 3-5 years. That's a 300-400 dollar investment in one shot.

          And new video cards come out about every 6 months or so, and cost just as much, if not more. Plus, a new version of DirectX is released every year to 18 months and you have to have the new cards to use the new DX features. At the very least your still looking at a "required" upgrade about every two years to keep up. Not to mention possible CPU upgrades, which could lead

        • "The game cube get systematically jew'd"

          eat shit you racist fuck

      • Rolled in one (Score:3, Interesting)

        by MMaestro ( 585010 )
        All your points, and the parent post's, are correct but I think you're wrong when it comes to the core. I think the core issue is people's the ability to invest and finance their money in something over a long period of time. When you get right down to it, what is Joe Average going to leap onto first?

        A) A budget PC for net surfing and a console for gaming. Average cost of Budget PC : $500 USD. Average cost of console : Between $100-$200 USD depending on which system you get. If you want you can throw in an

      • Re:agree 100% and more. (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Zathrus ( 232140 ) on Tuesday December 16, 2003 @12:24PM (#7735550) Homepage
        4. Stability. You don't buy a console game on its release day, and then go home and download a 1.1 patch.

        And you damn well better hope that it's stable and bug free. Because if it isn't -- well, too bad. You can't patch. Xbox changes this for Live games, but not for the majority of games.

        6. Glitz. Console games are optimized to their fixed hardware. Halo on my xbox looks just like Halo on your xbox. I never have a friend tell me how awesome a ps2 game is, but find out my ps2 isn't fast enough to play it well.

        And it still looks far, far worse than a PC game. You don't have the resolution, you don't have the polygon draw, or the fill rate of even a cheap PC video card. Resolution is a huge issue -- even HDTV resolutions aren't as good as PC resolutions (although ATSC realistically provides good enough resolution, it's still possible to do better on PC). Color depth sucks deeply too (NTSC just plain bites; ATSC is good though).

        Playing on a big screen is nice, but you can do that with a PC too. Works best if the TV has VGA or DVI inputs, obviously.

        7. Integrity. in online console gaming, it is possible to guarantee that no-one is cheating.

        No it's not. SOCOM2 on the PS2 is a perfect example of this. Xbox Live isn't hacked yet, but if you think it won't ever be then you're living in a dream world. Punkbuster, Steam, and other anti-cheat measures have made significant inroads on the PC as well.

        8. Return Policy. Should a console game be found to be buggy, or even just not what it was advertised to be -- you can return it.

        Really? That's certainly not the policy that was given to me the last few times I bought a console game -- from EB, GameStop, or BestBuy.

        the limitations on the product the paying customer faces (in the name of 'copy protection')

        Oh that's a laugh. Yes, there are annoying limitations put on games in the name of copy protection. Are you even trying to tell me that it's better in the console world? Last time I checked, all the console makers made it pretty damn well impossible to backup your media without going through some amazing contortions. Sure, it's the same thing in the PC world, but to try and list this as an "advantage" is complete and utter BS.

        the costs they deal with

        The much discussed costs are BS. My previous PC (Athlon 750 w/ GF2) cost me around $1000 and lasted for nearly 3 years. Every game I bought was $35 or less, and the system was used for far more than just playing games.

        If you buy a console when it's brand new then it's about $500 with a memory card and second controller. Each game is $40 or $50 and doesn't drop in price for months or years. Used games are often no more than $5 cheaper than new. It'll last you about 4 years, but since you need a $500 PC as well (if you want to surf the net, do taxes, balance your checkbook, or anything else a PC can do that a console can't) then you're going to come out about even once you factor in game prices. If you're smart, you'll sell games once you're done with them and come out ahead -- but that's about the only way the numbers come better for the consoles once you look at the whole picture.

        Oh, and the games probably won't be playable on the next generation console -- the PS2 and Gameboy Advance are the only ones that have broken that mold, but the next generation consoles aren't currently looking compatible (the Xbox2 almost certainly won't be). That's rarely an issue on PCs (yeah, there's ancient DOS games that have problems running under Windows, but there are workarounds available; and that PC can also run the ancient arcade and console ROMs too via emulation).

        I'm both a console and a PC gamer. People who try to spouse bullshit about one platform or the other just show how little they know. There are a lot of positives to the console experience, but there's a lot of negatives too -- particularly in the lack of configurability and controls. Certain game genres, like F
        • my points were to support the core argument that the console is a better solution to the mass market gamer.

          Glitz
          glitz per dollar, for the mass market - i stand by my assertion. a console does better for less with 640x480. you also forgot to note that the console cost -includes- the cpu, and mobo, but your 'graphics card' cost doesn't take that into account.

          even today i'd have to spend $200 to get a cheap-as-possible cpu, mobo and graphics card to get HALO to look better and play as good at 8x6 on my PC
          • Considering my video card just cost me 289 dollars of my christmas money (not counting the rest of the darn computer I'm about to buy), I'd have to agree.

            So much more than games to a computer. Believe me, if it just played games, we wouldn't be having this argument. But with a DVD burner, Broadband, and the right know-how, you can do 10x more than what you can do with a console.

            Thats why we love our PC's. You just can't do anything on a console besides what they want you to do.
            • which is true enough. but the mass market consumer only -wants- to play games ;p

              besides, they have computers too, they just don't have the time/patience/expertise to deal with PC gaming in most cases.

              again, i'm just pointing out the logic from the perspective of the mass market consumer, to show that no-one should be surprised that consoles are ruling the commercial genre.

              but i agree with you completely as well, and that's why i have both.
          • I'm not going to get into the big parts of this argument....but you did say:

            Hell the quality is so damned high they can -charge- for it. and it keeps growing.

            Um, how is not being able to mention signifigantly higher subscriber numbers since late APRIL able to be said as "keeps growing?"

            Microsoft's last numbers were ~500k worldwide. Those numbers were mentioned in late April 2003, and in the 8 months since then, it hasn't seemed to grow. MS hasn't released new numbers, and just maintains the ~500k w

            • well i can't argue with the numbers. or lack thereof.

              i spoke from my own perspective about the number of people i find online playing any given new release (much easier to find a game of cstrike today than unreal 12 months ago) - and honestly I didn't even know they had 500k. last i heard it was 350k. ::shrug:: there seems to be plenty for me, and xbox live doesn't have the rampant cheating and much more inconsistant lag levels of sony's solution, or pc gaming.

              so i dunno. maybe it isn't growing. maybe i
        • "And you damn well better hope that it's stable and bug free. Because if it isn't -- well, too bad. You can't patch. Xbox changes this for Live games, but not for the majority of games."

          Since most of the games are stable and fine, I don't have to sweat the few that are broken. Rental stores let me know ahead of time that a game is broken for a very small fee. I can't rent PC games, and I certainly can't return them if they require a patch -- because everyone has patches on their games! Advantage: Consol
        • Your prices for consoles are greatly inflated.

          You spent about $1000 on your PC, lasted 3 years. We'll call that $333/yr.

          My Gamecube (which I bought on release day, 2001), cost me $200, + $90 for controllers, +$20 for memory cards = $310. It would be substantially cheaper I bought it today, but it also wouldn't have the same 'lifespan'. So, anyway, I'm looking at having to replace it in 2005, so that's roughly $80/yr it cost me. I saved $253/yr. And that's not even counting the fact that I can play
      • No patches. Yup indeed. If a game has a bug on a console then you are screwed. So bugs don't happen right? Well Knights of the Republic had a very long list of bugs on the X-box. They just left them? Or do they patch them via x-boxlive? I personally walked into the bug on the game "broken sword" on the gameboy. NO FUCKING FIX and NO MONEY BACK. If a pc company tried that they would be lynched. Nintendo. Oh well they are so cute.

        Further more certain games come with enhancement patches on the tv. They fix ga

        • first off I'm not saying console gaming is better than PC gaming. I'm saying it makes more sense for the casual, mass-market consumer.

          next, i am not a european, so i can't relate to the cost woes. in the states console games are the same price as pc games, and get price discounts much sooner. perhaps the price difference there explains why the european console market is so much smaller than japan or the US.

          knights of the old republic i managed to play through without encountering any bugs. so i'm sorry
        • So bugs don't happen right? Well Knights of the Republic had a very long list of bugs on the X-box.

          ...almost all of which had easy workarounds. I played through it twice on the XBox and encountered one random bug. It cost me all of two minutes of game time.

          I personally walked into the bug on the game "broken sword" on the gameboy. NO FUCKING FIX and NO MONEY BACK. If a pc company tried that they would be lynched.

          Uh huh. Try reading the Homeworld2 forums. There is a fatal bug in multiplayer which mak

      • Maybe it's different where you live but here console games have one disadvantage. One but so serious I'm never going to buy any console until it changes. Problem is console games are 5-6 times more expensive than PC games. And consoles themselves are only 40-50% the price of a decent PC so it's not that big deal either considering that you can do other things on PC than play games. I'd buy a console, why not? But I don't want hardware on which I can play pirates only...

  • One word possibility (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Dark Nexus ( 172808 ) on Tuesday December 16, 2003 @08:15AM (#7733405)
    Online.

    Seriously. Shelf space is in a warehouse is probably cheaper than shelf space in a retail environment. Plus, you can choose a location for the warehouse where rent is cheapest, and still cover all the markets.

    Also less shipping fees (pass the shipping charges for delivery to the person buying the game directly), not necessarily needing as much stock on-hand (expect 2-3 weeks for shipping kind of thing).

    It may not be out of the question for someplace like EB to reduce their in-store stock to a minimum and have a "Find more games at www.ebgames.com!" sign above the shelves.
    • This would require game makers to seriously rethink how they do copyright control -- obviously SafeDisk and similar protection schemes wouldn't work if you never get physical media.

      Of course, there's the issue that not everyone wants to download several gigs worth of data (especially modem users -- yes, there are people who still can't get broadband. One of my coworkers is among them... he's simply too far from the CO).

      I suspect for the copyright issue everyone would move to a key authorization system lik

      • He's talking about storing boxes at a warehouse, taking orders online, and shipping the boxes.

        Try reading a post before replying, buddy.

        • Only problem with this is the power of the "browse." When you go to the Gap and you try on a shirt and it's nice but they don't have it in your size... boom, they give you the item # and you go right on gap.com and buy it in the correct size (free shipping, too).

          But it's different with items you don't know you want. A lot of times people (myself included) will go into a store just to "browse," and depending on a number of factors I may choose to buy a game which I had 0% intent to buy upon entering. Wh

  • PC Games bought elsewhere (Score:5, Informative)

    by Zathrus ( 232140 ) on Tuesday December 16, 2003 @08:18AM (#7733412) Homepage
    I suspect that most people simply don't buy PC Games from EB or GameStop, but instead from CompUSA, BestBuy, or similar.

    Why? Because they're cheaper. Almost every game will come out at one of the mall stores for $50 and be available at CompUSA, etc. the same day or a few days later for $40. And they rapidly fall to $30-35 (except for the hottest titles), while the mall stores keep them at $50.

    I don't question that console gaming is more popular than PC gaming, but I don't think that's the whole picture here.
    • Because they're cheaper.

      Yep, I always find that games in stores are much more expensive than in any online shop (Amazon, for example). Maybe personnel, rent, heating etc. all increase the price somewhat, but I don't need any advice on games and I buy from whoever offers me the best price.

      Anyway, I always check out other offers from the store while I'm there, so I may not buy a game but instead pick up a DVD or CD. And I think this is common behaviour. Removing PC games completely from a store is proba
      • wasn't that the pre-internet-boom hype? That cheap prices online, whose stores didn't need to pay rent, lighting, uniforms, etc would mark the end of the brick-and-mortor store?

        I especially seem to remember this idea being whispered at that first $billion-plus holiday season...
    • Out here in Portland OR, EB, CompUSA and Bestbuy are all the same price when games come out and the price sticks around for a while. Halo for PC is still 45-50 bucks everywhere but Target/Walmart/Costco for example.
    • I'm not sure about cheaper, unless they're on sale for one reason or another at that particular time, but I do know that the local BestBuy carries a hell of a lot more PC games than any of the local EBGames or GameStops. Therefore, if I'm looking for a PC game, I usually go to BestBuy. All of the local EBGames, GameStops, etc have had their PC games down to a very small amount of space (compared to the 3 major consoles) for the last several months, and they don't seem to keep games around as long as they us
      • Although I appreciate the great selection of the EBs and GameStops of the world, I can't stand their markup, especially for console games. In many cases, a new console game at GameStop, costs an average of $5 more than at Toys R Us, Best Buy, or a number of other places. Even the mom and pop game stores here in Manhattan have better prices than either of these two national chains. Sure, game stores are still great for used games, but even then, there's Blockbuster; though there's less selection, if you find
    • My EB and CircuitCity both price match BestBuy. Unless I know for *CERTAIN* (ie, i've already got a pirated copy) that a game is going to be good and will work with my system, I *REFUSE* to buy from BestBuy. Their return policy is the pits. Basically, if it doesn't work or if you don't like it, tough. They'll be happy to give you another copy to replace the working merchandise, but woe to those who get suckered in by lousy games (FF7 for PC was one that really nailed me) while shopping at BestBuy.

      EB's one
    • I think you also need to look at Gamestop's stores after the Funcoland buyout. They now have thousands of strip mall stores that cater mostly to console games. The few in my immediate area probably only have 7% of the store dedicated to PC gaming, so it makes sense that their filings would reflect the same.

      Most of the mall stores around here have a larger portion of the store dedicated to PC gaming, but the console-oriented strip mall stores definitely outnumber the mall ones so perhaps this is another re
    • Why? Because they're cheaper. Almost every game will come out at one of the mall stores for $50 and be available at CompUSA, etc. the same day or a few days later for $40. And they rapidly fall to $30-35 (except for the hottest titles), while the mall stores keep them at $50. I think that price is one factor, but I feel as though location is another.

      Look at where EB shops are at ... Malls. Where are GameStops? Strip malls.

      Most people who play PC games aren't going to be regulars at malls, and if they a

  • Wow (Score:4, Interesting)

    by gasaraki ( 262206 ) on Tuesday December 16, 2003 @08:20AM (#7733415)
    I had no idea the market share for PC games was so weak. I guess I understand it, but I still don't like the sounds of it. I own consoles now, and probably always will, but there are just some games that work best on a PC... and it'd suck to have those sort of games die out. I suppose with all the recent controversy about bad "console to PC conversions" (e.g. Insible War) it should have been more obvious. In the olden days it was all about crappy PC-to-console conversions, now it's starting to go the other way around.

  • Bargain Bin (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 16, 2003 @08:21AM (#7733418)
    I buy plenty of PC games, but most of them at discount prices a year or two after they are released. I went into EB the other day and picked up Civ 3 (with full manuals) and Civ 3 Conquests for AU$60 (about US$40).

    I also got Deus Ex for AU$10, Thief 2 for AU$5 and Return To Castle Wolfenstein for AU$20.

    The full-price PC games sit on the shelves for ages, but as soon as they hit the bargain bin, they sell like crazy.

    I haven't paid more than AU$40 for a game in a long time, and I know a lot of people who do exactly the same thing. The games may be older, but the value for money is a lot higher.
    • Well naturally, but don't think you're doing the industry any favors. Waiting for the bargain bin of a title is virtually like not buying it at all for the market. All you do is help EB recoup some losses.

      Not that I'm slamming it, I've bought plenty of old games.

      At the same time, there's all this outrage that DX:IW was "restricted" by it's XBox version, and yet I bet most people bought the original Deus Ex for about $10 as well.

      Like a game? Great, vote with your wallet.
      • I vote with my wallet, and my vote says "No game is worth more than $29.99". That's my cutoff for buying a new game that I REALLY, REALLY want. Most other games, that I'm interested in but not drooling over, don't get purchased until they're at $19.99 or less. That means that I buy most games at the bargain bin.

        I simply refuse to pay $50 for a game. The times I've broken that rule have been disasters. I was very excited about "Tron 2.0". I paid $49.99, and was totally disappointed.

        Sadly, I'll probab
  • theres always going to be a market for good PC games.

    FPS and RPGs are hell to play on a console, it just doesnt feel right without the mouse and keyboard combination. While the mouse and keyboard make for useful console addons (and are always helpful when you want a play with xbox linux), they just look 'out of place' sat in the living room under a TV

    • I've found a pretty good solution for playing those games on a console.

      You'll need:

      1. USB Keyboard
      2. USB Trackball
      3. A board of some sort big enough for 1 and 2. (Portable desks, marketed at laptop owners usually work for this, and they have nice padding on the bottom!)
      4. Velcro
      5. A PS2 and/or X-Box. (Duh.)

      Stick the softer velcro on top of the board. Stick the hard half of the velcro on the bottom of your keyboard and trackball. Now, you can rest the keyboard and trackball on your lap easily. W
      • Since I use a 'MS Natural' style keyboard and a trackball anyway, I've always found that if I just put one or two pillows on my right and set my trackball on that, and then put the keyboard in my lap, I'm just fine. I could see needing a board or something, though, with the smaller straight keyboards, and know that at least one friend of mine does this with a plain old board (that came from a desk he had fall apart after roughly 6 months with a 30" TV sitting on it).
    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Ok well I love PC games just as much as the next guy (LAN Parties, RPG, BF1942, etc) but the end of PC Games could be a positive for Linux and a negative for Microsoft. Lets look at a big driver of PC sales... games. Driver of PC hardware... games. Why home users often use Windows vs Linux... games.
    Before I get flamed about "yada yada games exist for Linux", there is only a small number of commercial Linux games and those are not available in your local Best Buy/CompUSA/GameStop/etc. Joe Blow wants to have
    • I think you mena they're moving towards Linux, not away.
    • that's incredibly insightful. I remember in the early/mid 90's, a commentator in MacUser (I think his name was Guy Kawasaki) was the ONLY person who got it right. While everyone was scratching their heads and had stupid ideas about why the Mac was a distant #2, this commentator had it EXACTLY RIGHT. He said it was "all about games." Yeah yeah, Mac had Myst and a port of some Sierra games, but it didn't have x-wing and all the random crap games the PC had. There was a reason that NONE of my friends had

  • Surprise surprise. (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 16, 2003 @09:05AM (#7733581)
    EB, Gamestop, and Babbages have filled their stores with console games, joysticks, movies, action figures, magazines, and loads of other crap.

    Whereas PC games used to take up 95% of the shelf space, they now take up maybe 10% of the space in the store if you're lucky.

    So is it any wonder that PC games make up only 7% of total sales? People re still buying PC games, they're just not going to EB or Gamestop to GET them, because the selection is so poor.

  • Online is the future! (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Mantrid ( 250133 )
    Let's take a game like X2: The Threat, after two weeks of messing around trying to get it at EB - I order it from gogamer, and have it the next day. Mind you it cost me a fair chunk in shipping (being the impatient Canadian gamer that I am), but I could've gotten very cheap shipping or now shipping.

    Used games seem to do well on eBay, and I've gotten better deals buying and selling then I'd ever get at an EB (especially on console games).

    But I think most interestingly is that of my last year's software pu

  • Why whine? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by SuperMo0 ( 730560 )
    PCs have an advantage that works against their retail sales, in that you can always go and make your own game if you feel like it. It's a LOT harder to get your hands on an SDK for a console than it is, say, for Flash or Half-Life. The software development community for PC, and the sheer NUMBER of games available for free download, is what people are always going to be attracted to on computers.

    That being said, I think that's the main "problem" with retail sales. I think that people are becoming more and m
    • SDKs? How many gamers really take adavantage of those? I would be willing to bet that far less than 1% actually use the tools. Couple this with the fact that most user created content sucks major ass. This is not to say that all user created content is bad, I am simplly saying that most of the people that try and make their own mods and so forth lack the skill and or patience to make anything worthwhile.

      Now as for the content, it goes without saying that some users have produced some really good additions

  • Piracy (Score:2, Insightful)

    by krelian ( 525362 )
    One of the main reasons why PC games are less popular is that they are very easy to pirate. While consoles use their own media format (gamecube) or DVD (ps2,xbox), games that are shipped on regualr cd's are easier to pirate.
    In order to run a pirated game on a console you'll have to limit your self to a chopped version of the game either because DVD downloads are very big or because of the lack of a DVD burner. Gamecube piracy is even less common than the other two consloes because it uses a special format s
    • PCs don't need to be upgraded. This myth has no basis in fact or logic.

      My 8-bit Nintendo Entertainment System is the same system it was when I bought it. My Sears Video Computer System is the same as when my parents bought it for me. My 286-20 (after all the upgrade parts were built into a separate 386) is again the same 286-20 it was when I bought it. My Cyrix 6x86 150+ is still identical to the way it was bought. All of these systems play the same games now as they did then, and just as well.

      What you ca
    • a third party Mod Chip that will cancel your warranty You must own a different console then everyone else in the world because my PS2 only came with a 90 day warrenty. Ask the tens of thousands of people who had to buy new PS2s because of faulty lasers in the v1-v3 PS2s how good their warrenty service was. I think if I had any intention of installing a mod chip, the warrenty would be the last of my worries.

  • PC games purchases will move online (Score:3, Interesting)

    by shunnicutt ( 561059 ) on Tuesday December 16, 2003 @10:01AM (#7734010)
    I've been a Macintosh owner for years, so a dearth of software titles at retail locations is a familiar situation.

    If this trend continues, PC gamers will be doing the same thing that Mac owners have been doing -- they'll get their goods online or through the few retail outlets that continue to offer them.

    I doubt very seriously that PC gaming is dying because less retail shelf space may be devoted to PC games. As the Mac shows, a platform's survival is not dependent upon a single sales channel.

  • Maybe it's a "Catch-22" (Score:5, Interesting)

    by g051051 ( 71145 ) on Tuesday December 16, 2003 @11:02AM (#7734620)
    My local game stores (EB Games, GameStop, etc) have a small PC section, in the back, with the games lined up like books so you just see the edge. They aren't sorted by name, developer, or genre. They're just shoved up there randomly. On any slightly busy day, you can't even get back to them to browse because of the crowds.

    The console games take up the front, well lit areas. They are laid out facing the customer, with decent spacing between the titles. Each console has more wall space than the PC games. Until relatively recently, even the Dreamcast had more space in some of the stores.

    Even in the larger stores (Best Buy and CompUSA), the PC game section has been shrinking while the console section has been growing.

    So, it's been getting much more difficult to buy PC games at these stores. So what does that do to sales? Sales go down, the stores stock less PC games, leading to lower sales, etc.

    On the other hand, these stores are very tiny. PC games are in large, non-uniform boxes (this has been changing in recent years, but not enough) compared to the standard size of console game packaging. They can store more product more efficiently with console games vs. PC games.
    • I think it's safe to assume that if PC games were selling at a rate close to console games, the PC games would be featured much more prominently. PC games sections have been relegated to the back because their sales are so much lower.

      I mean really, if PC games sold at a level near console games, do you think they'd be off in the corner, far out of sight?

      • I think it's more a case of storage, staging, and sell-through.

        The stores simply don't have the room to accomodate the larger boxes, either in the back room or on the shelves. It's much easier to stock the CD cases that modern console games come in.

        I also think its easier to sell an older console game than an older, "B-list" PC game. I can still go into EBGames and find new copies of "Hyperblade" selling for $1.99. They can't unload it, even at that price.

        So, they push the console games, which are eas
        • I disagree. Do some research and you'll see that online retailers have a similar sales percentage in PC vs. console - space obviously isn't an issue here. There are a hell of a lot more console games released than PC games.
          • No way. There's way more PC games out there. You have to count educational games, kids games, and things that you simply can't do with a console. There's lots of little game developers that release for the PC, but will never get enough traction to get a console deal.

            Think of companies like Spiderweb Software. They make some moderately popular RPGs tha would be difficult to port to a console, and tough to sell in the console market.
            • I do not have to count those types of titles. The original discussion was about EBGames and the like. Therefore I am limiting my scope of games released to the types of games that sell at these types of stores.
              • The whole point of this thread is that those stores aren't stocking enough PC game titles. They limit stuff to the "blockbuster" (or hoped-for blockbuster), and bypass a lot of the PC games that are released. Your earlier statement was that there are more console titles released compared to PC games. What you're saying now is that those stores stock more console games than PC games, which is what we've all been commenting on.
                • They bypass a lot of the PC games that are released because they don't sell. You think if EBGames suddenly had a huge stock of educational titles, they'd be the top sellers?

                  EB stocks what sells. Go ahead and believe that the PC Games market is thriving and it's all because of the packaging that EB doesn't care about PC Games anymore - if that's what you need to do.

                  I'm done replying to you.

                  • My original statement was that the PC games were harder to stock and manage, so the small mall-sized stores stock less of them than the easier to manage, uniformly packaged console games.

                    You're saying that there aren't as many PC games, so naturally EBgames stocks more console games.

                    I follow that up with the fact that there are MORE PC game releases, and of types that console games can't do as well.

                    Your reply doesn't address the facts, just makes some kind of non-sensical declaration, and proclaims the d

  • Should go to online sales (Score:3, Interesting)

    by indros13 ( 531405 ) * on Tuesday December 16, 2003 @11:07AM (#7734664) Homepage Journal
    With a broadband connection, I'd just as soon purchase a PC game over the internet. Either ship me the retail box or let me download the game file (maybe a CD image).

    The disadvantage is primarily in marketing...you can't get people to impulse buy a computer game as easily if they have to go searching for it on a website as you can if they are browsing a store rack.

  • The Price Problem.. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by JavaLord ( 680960 ) on Tuesday December 16, 2003 @11:47AM (#7735096) Journal
    PC games have two problems in my eyes. The first is they are overpriced, and the second is piracy. As much as the game industry would like to jump up and down and blame piracy for their prices, it's BS.

    Here is a real life example, a friend of mine went to EB to buy Jedi Acadamy (A game that came out a few months ago). He wants to play Jedi Acadamy online, even though there is a small community (maybe about 30-50 players online at a time on all of the servers put together). They told him it was $50. He asked for a used version and they told him $44. He promptly told them he was going to buy it from ebay or pirate it.

    I think PC games should go the way of ITunes. Cut out the middleman and sell the games for $15 - $20 a piece. Most of the documentation that comes with games nowadays is incomplete or poor. Gamefaqs usually has better documentation than most games ship with.
    • Interesting enough, I still remember the words from the game companies regarding C64/Atari ST/Amiga pirated copies: if the piracy does not stop, no more games will be developed for that system. Granted, the development for those systems has ceased, but I doubt it was because of illegal copies ;) And today the companies sing the same old song.

      Is anyone aware of companies offering their games at a substantially lower price? One major argument for piracy has always been the price - is there any proof that t
      • Is anyone aware of companies offering their games at a substantially lower price? One major argument for piracy has always been the price - is there any proof that this is right or wrong?

        I think it's right in some cases, wrong in others. There are always people that will pirate games and not buy them, even if the price is $1. But there are also people that will pirate games just because the think they are too expensive, or just because it's easier to pirate the games than it is to earn the money to b
      • The Serious Sam games from Crotean retailed for $20 new. I don't know how much those games were pirated but Crotean did well enough to release a second volume.

    • Here is a real life example, a friend of mine went to EB to buy Jedi Acadamy (A game that came out a few months ago). He wants to play Jedi Acadamy online, even though there is a small community (maybe about 30-50 players online at a time on all of the servers put together). They told him it was $50. He asked for a used version and they told him $44. He promptly told them he was going to buy it from ebay or pirate it.

      I don't see your friend's problem. Halo has been out for the XBox for how long? It *just*
  • The best thing about this story is that it strips away all pretense and just says "Let's have a console vs PC flamewar on Slashdot".

    As far as I know, console games have always outsold PC games. But PC games have continued to thrive anyway. If you're a developer, it doesn't matter which has the higher percentage market share, it just matters whether or not you can make money off of it.

    My understanding is that it goes in cycles too. We're nearing the midpoint of this generation of consoles so we should be s
  • Far about the last 9 months I have only been able to find the game I was actually looking for about 1 in 5 times, as the area for PC games in GAME has shrunk so much. (GAME bought EB in the UK a while ago for non UK people.) So I end up buying something else which I don't really want, since I'll be back the following week, and I can then exchange it for the one I actually want. (10 day no quibble exchange/refund.) I have still not been able to find Homeworld 2 in the shop since it came out, and the first ti
    • I'll agree on this. HMV's selection is far wider than my local GAME's selection. In fact, their console section is bigger than GAME's too. Granted the HMV store is bigger, but the area the games are in is about the same size as the GAME store.

      GAME annoys the shit out of me. "Lowest Price Guarantee" stickers on every game. What a load of shit, the prices are exactly the same as any other shop I visit. Try telling them you can get the game cheaper online and they'll tell you their guarantee only covers local
  • My friends and I are turning 30 this year (or next) and we are and have been die-hard PC gamers. We own consoles, but none of us has as many console titles as we do PC titles, and none of us devote as much time to consoles as we do to the PC. My nephews are in their pre-teens, teens or early 20s, and they don't even OWN computers. However, they have scads of console games. My wife plays console titles more than she plays PC titles, and most of what we own for the consoles appeals mostly to her. I'm not su

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