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PC Games (Games) Real Time Strategy (Games) Entertainment Games

Gridlock Expert Takes On Sim City Streets 41

Posted by simoniker from the virtually-fixed-already dept.
Thanks to the Gaming-Age messageboard regulars for pointing to an EA webpage interviewing real-life traffic engineer Sam Schwartz, aka 'Gridlock Sam', and discussing "ways to alleviate traffic congestion in your own virtual metropolis" for Maxis/EA's PC game Sim City 4: Rush Hour. Schwartz notes some of the tricks gamers use to get round traffic congestion in-game: "I have read on the Sim City message boards, and seen screen shots of cities where mayors build roads at certain angles to avoid the creation of a traffic light", but goes on to suggest relevant real-world tactics, particularly noting players should "...use underground rail where [traffic] density is the greatest." However, 'Gridlock Sam' found unexpected social issues even in the virtual city: "One time I made the mistake of turning all my roads into streets thinking I was improving the level of service and therefore congestion would lessen. It did, but now I had Sims yelling at me because their once bucolic roads became bustling streets."
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Gridlock Expert Takes On Sim City Streets More

Gridlock Expert Takes On Sim City Streets

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  • But (Score:5, Funny)

    by obeythefist ( 719316 ) on Wednesday January 21, 2004 @03:29AM (#8041215) Journal
    What did Gridlock Sam have to say about the increased instances of Godzillas and Volcanoes in his cities? How did this impact on traffic analysis?

  • In the first SimCity (Score:3, Insightful)

    by M3wThr33 ( 310489 ) on Wednesday January 21, 2004 @03:32AM (#8041222) Homepage
    It made sense to use ONLY railroad tracks. Albeit more expensive, it was more acceptable and well liked. How far our games have come. . .

  • Roundabouts. (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Hey, Mr. Gridlock expert!

    Why the hell doesn't the US build more roundabouts? They are not that difficult. [google.com]

    Coming from England, I find that the lack of roundabouts a *serious* problem on the roads of America. When they do build them over here, in larger places to be fancy and for show. And then the medium-sized ones tend to suck - they don't build any "raised bump & painted lines that you can actually drive over if you're going straight across the intersection" ones, these are awesome for minor interse

    • Re:Roundabouts. (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      They're commonly built in neighborhoods to slow through traffic.

      But the main reason we don't use them is the same reason we don't use SI units. Retooling and retraining is expensive. Not to mention they just seem like invitations to disaster with the "Mememe nownownow" people.

      Hey, and about the planning. It takes little effort, and saves time. There's something to be said for knowing what the hell you're doing.

      • Re:Roundabouts. (Score:2, Informative)

        by Weh ( 219305 )
        In Holland where traditionally there aren't a lot of roundabouts they suddenly sprang up all over the place. A lot of intersections got converted into roundabouts too. This (and the fact that it's possible to find roundabouts with only one exits apart from the ongoin road i.e. a junction) raised the suspicion that road-construction companies were bribing local officials into deciding that intersections needed to be converted into roundabouts. The term 'roundabout - mafia' was quickly coined.

      • Re:Roundabouts. (Score:4, Interesting)

        by Tofino ( 628530 ) on Wednesday January 21, 2004 @12:43PM (#8044638)
        Wrong kind of roundabouts, AC. Those are the small, common, mini-roundabouts that as far as I can tell are only found in North America. In England and elsewhere, roundabouts are the equivalent of highway ramps. You are driving down a highway, or on a major street in a city, and suddenly there's a huge, 3-lane-wide roundabout. You need to pick your lane carefully and aggressively so that you end up on the outside at the precise moment that your exit from the roundabout comes up (there are usually 4 or 5 exits from a roundabout).

        It sounds like chaos, and it looks completely disorganized when you first think of or see it, but you quickly realize that there's a reason why traffic congestion in England, even in big cities, is so much lower than in the US: the roundabouts, and the relative lack of traffic lights. The drivers in England also tend, in my opinion, to be better. You can spot US and Canadian drivers in England very easily, as they're the ones who timidly stop before a roundabout, aren't sure when to merge, etc. In England, I've seen major roads in rush hour change from 2 lanes, to one, back to 2 again, and traffic never slow below 20mph as cars dance in and out. In Vancouver, if there's a car parked in the right lane during rush hour, traffic stops.

    • Actually my friend from across the pond. There are a few left here in New England but they are called Rotarys and they are horrible. Which could be why there are so few left now as well as them getting rid of them in England too.
    • Five words, "Look, Kids! Big Ben, Parliament!"

      • Re:Roundabouts. (Score:2, Interesting)

        by Robmonster ( 158873 )
        From my addled memory I think this is from one National Lampoons Vacation (or something like that)

        I seem to remember this occuring when they were in France, going round and round the large roundabout by the Arc de Triomphe.

        This occured as traffic laws in France dictate that traffic entering the roundabout has priority over traffic already on the roundabout, making it very tricky to get off the darn things. Its the reverse in England where once you are on the roundabout you have right-of-way and traffic tr
    • Indeed, some countries have turned roundabouts into an art form [jamanga.com].

    • Re:Roundabouts. (Score:2, Interesting)

      by wed128 ( 722152 )
      There are many Roundabouts in southern New jersey and Maryland...and they seem to cause more accidents than streetlights, it's just not worth the few minutes saved waiting. Also, 4-way stop signs are common there, and are very annoying. I happen to like streetlights, as long as they are programmed to turn colors efficiantly.
      • My completely uninformed opinion is that these accidents occur due to drivers not knowing how to handle the 'bouts. T he drivers are so used to lights controlling their path that the lack of lights on a roundabout gives them the impression they can drive right onto it (right into the path of that oncoming vehicle....)

        Saying that, there is a roundabout near me that also has traffic lights on it that controls the flow onto it (which is good) and also around it (which is bad) . This is a right nightmare in ru

    • Re:Roundabouts. (Score:4, Informative)

      by Washizu ( 220337 ) <bengarvey@[ ]cast.net ['com' in gap]> on Wednesday January 21, 2004 @10:53AM (#8043407) Homepage
      "Why the hell doesn't the US build more roundabouts?"

      Over the last 15 years, New Jersey has been eliminating their "roundabouts" (we just call them circles). I still drive through one every day on the way to work and it's really bad in the 5:00PM traffic. Could driving on the other side of the road make a difference in the effectiveness of the roundabout? In my experience, a bad traffic light is preferable to a bad traffic circle, because I'm at least guaranteed to eventually get through the traffic light. On most traffic circles, one feeding street dominates the traffic flow and the other streets have to hope for a gap that may never come.

    • Re:Roundabouts. (Score:3, Interesting)

      by TheLink ( 130905 )
      While roundabouts are pretty good under low to mid traffic conditions, under heavy traffic they fail even more ungracefully compared to traffic lights.

      You can end up in a situation where the roundabout is full and nobody can get out to where they want because the roundabout is full. Well actually not totally impossible - someone can eventually squeeze out. But that sure makes things a lot slower. You have to make them really big to prevent over filling, and that's not usually possible.

      Of course with traff
    • Where I live in California they are starting to build some of those things in newer developments. I don't like them much. When there is a lot of traffic, it can be really difficult to get on a roundabout.
    • Having lived in England for 2 years...

      In the US, you yield to the right. That means the person entering the roundabout would have right of way. From what my parents said, you yield to the right in England as well (I wasn't driving in 4th/5th grade), so you yield to the person in the roundabout.

      I'm sure you can quickly see how this wouldn't work in the slightest. It could in theory work, that's after all how our highways work. But you'll note that there you're going about 40 and hopeing the guy doing 90 do
      • In the US, you yield to the right

        This yielding only applies at roundabouts to my mind (can't think of any other places where yielding is an issue). So basically roundabouts in the US are screwed from the outset because someone chose the priority to go the wrong way for them? I'm not complaining, just trying to find out the facts.

        • Yield to the right, is usually used (at least here in California) for two (or more) people arriving at a 4 way stop at the same time, and assuming that thier movements would conflict. As for roundabouts, I've never actually seen one, much less driven in one, so I can't comment.

      • Actually, in the US yeilding to the right is only used at 4 way stops when 2 cars arrive at the same time. In a circle you yeild to the left, in other words to cars already in the circle. BTW, I do live in the US, and they're popping up all over the place near my house.
      • In almost all cases in the U.S., merging traffic must yield. Generally speaking, this includes traffic entering a traffic circle.

        However, I have seen traffic circles where the entrances all have stop signs or traffic lights at them; and I have seen one traffic circle where there are yield signs set up so that traffic in the circle is explicitly told to yield.

    • So they put in a roundabout in my home town of bainbridge island wa, everyone loves it, my mom goes out of her way to go through it. It helped immensly.
    • We have several "traffic circles" in the Cleveland, Ohio, suburbs, surprisingly enough. (Yes, mostly in affluent areas.)

      One of these (in a slightly less affluent area) does permit traffic on the primary road to proceed straight through the circle. Unfortunately, this behavior is governed by a traffic light on both sides of the circle where this road intersects - it's timed so that you won't have to stop twice, of course.

      We have another traffic circle that is so screwed up that (1) there is a *sign* that
    • Roundabouts (or circles as the other replier calls them) only make sense in certain cases. With moderate traffic at all times of the day, they make sense. With light traffic there is no need for them. With heavy traffic, lights are needed. In the UK, they exist in part because some of the roads are not lit, and there is no electricity near. It may simply be cheaper to put a roundabout and some signs up than to put the electricity and traffic lights in, or more specifically, may have been so at the time they
  • I remember in simcity 2000 a great strategy was to start your road in the center of the map, then have it be one continuous spiral outwords. there were absolutely no intersections but your road covered all the map. the newer versions probably take into account the fact that the trip would be enormous.

  • You realize... (Score:3, Informative)

    by FooAtWFU ( 699187 ) on Wednesday January 21, 2004 @01:14PM (#8045177) Homepage
    You realize, of course, Mr. Expert, that the periodic whining complaints about streets being made into roads makes just about no difference whatsoever? As long as the property doesn't suffer excessive traffic noise along its road, then you can deal with it.
    Particularly effective SC4 traffic strategies usually involve forcing your Sims to take the bus/train/subway/monorail by making it the only reasonable route out of a development... include a good Parking Garage for people who aren't right near the stations... Your development's exit should be headed in the opposite direction from the way your Sims want to go, and place the mass transit exit on the reasonable side. :)

  • My favorite Flash Game (Score:3, Informative)

    by satanami69 ( 209636 ) on Wednesday January 21, 2004 @02:50PM (#8046700) Homepage
    Is called gridlock
    http://www.crystalnewmedia.com/gridlock/ gridlock.h tml

  • Well, Sim City is quite accurate. They all want to drive, but they whinge about the numbers of cars on the road.

    I tend to stock up huge amounts of cash (a well designed little village can be quite profitable if you ignore the Sims whinging for a decade or two), muck around with the land to allow myself to build a road runnel under a decent stretch, and then flatten that bit and zone it, leaving the tunnel in place, with smaller roads joining to the entrance of the tunnel. Now there is a long, straight expr

  • SC4's traffic model.. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Xzzy ( 111297 ) <`gro.h7urt' `ta' `rehtes'> on Wednesday January 21, 2004 @05:01PM (#8048573) Homepage
    Due to an unwillingness to shell out more cash for what I feel should have been part of the original product, I never bought the rush hour expansion. I did buy SC4 though, the promise of all the new transportation methos drew me in like a moth to flame.

    Unfortuneatley, the traffic model blew ass. There were a multitude of problems when trying to ferry people between different regions, sims were too stupid to take a highway unless it fell on their shortest path algorhythm (they would prefer to take narrow local streets even if the highway would have been faster), and don't even get me started on the braindead decision for the only way to have "busy" commercial zones was to have red traffic right next to them (duh?!). Some of the simulator variables were odd too, wasn't traffic modelled as if all cars were moving at 30mph or somesuch?

    Did rush hour really fix this at all? Reading the feature list, it just seemed like a stop gap measure bolted on to try and cover some of the flaws.

    I know traffic is hard and Maxis did a decent job with the game, but the flaws made it damn near impossible to build a "real" city.. invariably the game turned into a micromanagement nightmare as you bulldozed roads to try and convince the sims to take more intelligent paths. Almost all my cities wound up being groups of individual "pods" that used limited routes to funnel sims into more desireable travel modes.

    I'm not a city planner, but this approach mimics no real world city I've ever witnessed.

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