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GameCube (Games) Entertainment Games

GameCube Successor For E3 2005? 103

Posted by simoniker from the we-were-always-coming-back dept.
Yorrike writes "An article over at GamesIndustry.biz states that, contrary to previously debunked rumors, Nintendo is preparing its next-generation console for public view at E3 2005, which is only 15 months away. From the article: 'Minagawa went further than that, however, giving a bit of insight into the company's thinking on the next-generation N5 platform: 'Like our Nintendo DS portable game machine, our home game machine must offer an experience that can be enjoyed by adults, children, or women,' he commented, and then revealed that 'we would like to show this at E3 next spring.''."
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GameCube Successor For E3 2005? More

GameCube Successor For E3 2005?

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  • Go Big N! (Score:3, Interesting)

    by PhoenixOne ( 674466 ) on Wednesday February 11, 2004 @06:49PM (#8254497)
    Sometimes they win, sometimes the fail, but they tend to make interesting products. :)

  • Mis-translation? Hopefully (Score:4, Funny)

    by Chasuk ( 62477 ) <chasuk@gmail.com> on Wednesday February 11, 2004 @06:49PM (#8254501)
    our home game machine must offer an experience that can be enjoyed by adults, children, or women

    Women aren't adults in Japanese culture, or is this just a mis-translation? Or just a Freudian slip on Minagawa's part?

    • Never been to Japan, have you?

      I haven't either, but from those I've talked to who have, apparently women are not adults in Japanese culture. Not kids, but not really adults either, at least not by western standards.

      • Depends on the situation. It's much more economically viable(and slightly less socially acceptable for a woman to take a "salary man" job) for a woman to work part time and raise children in Japan than it seems to be in the US. After having talked to a lot of Japanese, both male and female though, I can tell you at least from the people I talked to(all less than 22 years old), very few of the women have ever played video games, suprising coming from the video game capital of the world.
    • He just doesn't believe in feminism - you know, the belief that women are people too.* :)

      *that was a joke, for the humor impaired

    • Re:Mis-translation? Hopefully (Score:4, Insightful)

      by NanoGator ( 522640 ) on Wednesday February 11, 2004 @07:12PM (#8254645) Homepage Journal
      "Women aren't adults in Japanese culture, or is this just a mis-translation? Or just a Freudian slip on Minagawa's part?"

      I think he was just reflecting what is on people's minds. (No, not that women are sex bunnies :P) When somebody says "adults" when referring to the game market, men are typically imagined. Vice City is geared for adults, but who's picturing numerous women playing it?

      He wasn't saying "Women have a different place from adults and kids." He was saying "Just in case we're not clear, we mean women as well." I really hope nobody of the female gender took offense to his comment, I really don't think he meant anything bad by it.
    • Maybe he is implying men are children. ^_^
      Seriously, maybe is is a mis-translation of a run on sentence. Wasn't there a story yesturday about how women are the fastest growing gaming demographic, and even so, they are still vastly under represented in the gaming comunity, so maybe he added woman to the end of his list as an afterthought and ment nothing sexist about it.
    • Not really...

      I'm sure he meant exactly what he said...now to clarify just why he said it. Females (Women) are generally considered a seperate market from kids and adults... And for what ever reason, these 2 demographics are what the market has catered to (this probably has to do with the higher ratio of male-to-female developers than anything else)...

      Anyhow, in the recent past, companies have started to see that women are a virtually un-tapped demographic.

      So, what Nintendo is really saying is that "We a
    • Probably an implication that Nintendo is going to start designing games with women as the target demographic.
    • Not a mis-translation, a mis-interpretation. They're overlapping categories. Some people see video games as being primarily for kids, so they specifically mention adults. Some people see modern games as being gorefests for adults, so they specifically mention children. Some people seem video games as being primarily for men, so they mention women. Nobody sees games as being primarily for women, so they omit the redundant mention of men.

      Japanese are much bigger on sentence brevity than English-speaker

  • Hmm (Score:1, Redundant)

    by NedR ( 701006 )
    Maybe this time they'll be able to avoid some of the mistakes that have plagued the Gamecube, such as too much focus on first-party software and not enough focus on third, lack of DVD playability (let's face it, there's no good reason for them to make their game discs that small), not enough focus on online games, etc. Nintendo learned some pretty tough lessons from the GC, let's just hope that they apply those lessons as needed.

    And by the way; "Children, adults, and women?"

    • Re:Hmm (Score:5, Insightful)

      by BFedRec ( 257522 ) on Wednesday February 11, 2004 @07:00PM (#8254561) Homepage
      I don't think the lack of DVD playback hurt them all that much. When the PS2 hit it was a big selling point for it, but the next Nintendo machine doesn't need it at ALL. When the PS2 hit a DVD player was $100+ but now a new system isn't really needing DVD playback due to the cheapness of DVD players. In fact it would help Nintendo MUCH more if they KEPT the same format and had some backwards compatability built in. At least that's MY opinion.

      CharlesP
      • When the PS2 hit it was a big selling point for it, but the next Nintendo machine doesn't need it at ALL. When the PS2 hit a DVD player was $100+ but now a new system isn't really needing DVD playback due to the cheapness of DVD players.

        One thing the PS2 did do was to contribute millions of DVD players to the market. This helped the whole adoption drives cheap players drives adoption chicken-n-egg deal. By helping make DVDs ubiquitous and with that job done, it can be argued that even the PS3 doesn't ne

      • When the PS2 hit for ~$200, a DVD player was at least $100 more expensive. Most of the early buyers wanted a PS2, but not enough to replace the PS1 that was still working fine. They wanted a DVD player, but couldn't justify $300 or more for one. When the PS2 could play both DVDs and games (including all their PS1 games) for less than a DVD player, it was a no brainer to get it.

        DVD ability drove the PS2. the Xbox came just enough latter that DVD players where cheap (and "everyone" had one) so DVD abili

      • "When the PS2 hit a DVD player was $100+ "

        $100+?

        I suppose technically that's right, in the same way that reading a Stephen King novel is read 10 pages+. In Japan, DVD players were running something like $400 for the cheapest models, with an average price of around $600. The PS2 was nothing compared to that.

        I understand that DVD players were cheaper in the States at that time, but for the Japanese market, this was absolutely huge. I know several people with no interest in games who bought a PS2 bec

    • Re:Hmm (Score:5, Insightful)

      by NanoGator ( 522640 ) on Wednesday February 11, 2004 @07:01PM (#8254573) Homepage Journal
      "such as too much focus on first-party software and not enough focus on third"

      Though I agree with this, it has nothing to do with the Gamecube. Rather, it's business policy. Yes, they need to change it, and the next system would be a good time to try that, but remember that Nintendo is making a personal fortune off the GC even though it's not #1.

      "lack of DVD playability (let's face it, there's no good reason for them to make their game discs that small)"

      You lost me here.

      a.) You can buy a DVD Player for $40. You don't need your game machine to absorb this capability. It might have helped the PS2, but this next time around it's not going to be much of a BFD.

      b.) There's no good reason for making the discs that small? What are you smoking? They're not as succeptable to accidental damage, they're far more portable, and who'd really be that surprised if GameBoy 3 played those discs?

      "not enough focus on online games, etc."

      Online games are not making or breaking the PS2 or XBOX, and they certainly didn't prevent the Dreamcast from tanking. Nintendo did not make a mistake here. What would have been a mistake is if Nintendo did include broadband capabilities + the ability to play DVDs, and the machine was $100 more expensive as a result.

      • Re:Hmm (Score:2, Troll)

        by Pluvius ( 734915 )
        There's no good reason for making the discs that small? What are you smoking? They're not as succeptable to accidental damage,

        They're pretty hard to damage, but really easy to lose in comparison. I think most people would much rather accidentally damage a $50 game than accidentally lose it. And heck, if you're not a child, it's pretty hard to accidentally damage or lose an optical disc anyway. Of course, Nintendo seems to pay a lot more attention to children than adults, so I guess that's rather irrele

        • Re:Hmm (Score:3, Insightful)

          by NanoGator ( 522640 )
          "They're pretty hard to damage, but really easy to lose in comparison. I think most people would much rather accidentally damage a $50 game than accidentally lose it."

          I haven't heard of anybody losing GC games because they're so small. I have heard of people ruining standard size CD's/DVDs because they simply dropped them. That surface area is a killer, and many have lost their movies to it. I guess what I'm saying is that I don't think your reasoning defeats mine.

          "Who cares about that if the system
          • "Anyway, you missed the only obvious reason Nintendo would have for making discs that size--copy protection. Which I personally think is a pretty weak reason."

            It is a strong reason. The Dreamcast got its final blow from piracy. The playstations suffer a lot from that too.

            Or maybe you want to copy the GC games? and the disc size/format is annoying you? Why exactly do you think it is a weak reason?

            That is one of their big reasons for using that. They've made that clear. Gee whiz, you get a bunch of other
            • A.) I'm not the one who said that, I think you replied to the wrong guy.

              B.) The Dreamcast did not die due to piracy. It'd be a stretch to even call it a contributing factor.
          • I haven't heard of anybody losing GC games because they're so small. I have heard of people ruining standard size CD's/DVDs because they simply dropped them.

            Do these people have glass or razor blades on the floor or something? Optical discs are made to be quite hard to ruin unless you're doing it deliberately. And even ruining a disc deliberately is difficult unless you have a sharp object handy.

            "Who cares about that if the system they play on isn't portable?"

            Nintendo does.

            Then Nintendo is stupid.
            • Optical discs are made to be quite hard to ruin unless you're doing it deliberately.

              Go rent a few DVDs and then let's see how indestructible you think optical discs are. I can't remember the last time I didn't have to skip some part of a movie because of a scratch.

              And for games, if a chunk of executable code gets scratched -- goodbye! No skipping that.

              --Jeremy
              • Go rent a few DVDs and then let's see how indestructible you think optical discs are.

                Do you realize how many mouthbreathers rent movies and games on a regular basis?

                Rob
                • Not only was that a lame-ass argument, but easy to defeat too.

                  You are trying too hard dude, seriously.

                  • Not only was that a lame-ass argument, but easy to defeat too.

                    OK, so where was it defeated exactly?

                    Rob
                  • ...How is that easy to defeat? It's true that idiots scratch up DVDs. The implication, of course, is that Gamecube's small discs only really benefit idiots, because they're the only ones who're stupid enough to scratch up a DVD.

                    I'm neutral on the subject, but I don't see the obvious angle on the argument. In fact, if there was a weak argument, I'm inclined to think it was the initial argument that smaller discs are better because they don't get scratched as easily, as it has been far from established t
            • " Optical discs are made to be quite hard to ruin unless you're doing it deliberately. "

              That was true with CDs. Sadly, DVDs with their higher density are far easier to ruin. Coincidenntly, modern game machines are using those discs now. Argue with me if you like, but plenty of people have ruined movies over this. There is nothing inherently differnt about games that prevents this other than they cost $50 to replace.

              "Then Nintendo is stupid. But I've suspected that for some time now, at least in the
          • "There's no good reason for making the discs that small? What are you smoking? ...they're far more portable..."

            Who cares about that if the system they play on isn't portable?

            Nintendo does. And since they make the rules, they're the only one that matters.

            Ok, I've really tried to wrap my head around this section, but I just don't get it. Being small is an advantage, because it makes discs more portable, but only Nintendo cares that discs are portable...

            I can see why this would be beneficial

        • Re:Hmm (Score:5, Insightful)

          by edwdig ( 47888 ) on Wednesday February 11, 2004 @07:58PM (#8255050)
          Anyway, you missed the only obvious reason Nintendo would have for making discs that size--copy protection. Which I personally think is a pretty weak reason.

          The size doesn't help with copy protection. Small discs are available.

          The copy protection is done via a barcode printed on the inside of the disc, just before the data starts. The barcode has to be printed on the disc during manufacturing - it can't be burned on. That can be done with large discs just as easily - it's part of the DVD standard, although I've never heard of it being used anywhere else.
          • I thought the disc spun backwards.

            I may be wrong though. Maybe I better research this instead of posting first.

            Nah, much more fun to look stupid publicly than to research it, like half the people who post here.

          • Re:Hmm (Score:1)

            by Dinny ( 16499 )
            I haven't seen any mini DVDs available, but I imagine they will be around eventually.

            The discs also read from outside in rather then inside out.

            Just the size issue has seemed to completely stop and dupping scene for the Gamecube. Lots of crappy solutions for both the Xbox and the PS2, but no solutions crappy or otherwise for the Cube.
            • Lots of crappy solutions for both the Xbox and the PS2, but no solutions crappy or otherwise for the Cube.

              Incorrect [216.239.41.104]. (This is a Google cache link)

              It is true, though, that the size issue has slowed down progress in the Gamecube piracy scene. I just don't think that that particular benefit nullifies the costs in data capacity and capital involved. I agree with the Slashdotters who say that Nintendo went with the small discs because its parent company is an optical disc manufacturer. This is the only r
              • I think that the PSO Loader is the crappiest solution of all to make piracy in this console generation.

                Nintendo has done an excellent job at stopping piracy with their discs. They read outside->inside, which also increases load speeds, and have this code in the microDVDs which are hard to reproduce. Maybe there is even another barrier that hasn't been reached yet.

                I agree with the Slashdotters who say that Nintendo went with the small discs because its parent company is an optical disc manufacturer. Th
            • Just the size issue has seemed to completely stop and dupping scene for the Gamecube. Lots of crappy solutions for both the Xbox and the PS2, but no solutions crappy or otherwise for the Cube.

              Did you not read what I just said? The issue isn't the size at all. You can't dupe the discs because they need a valid barcode on them, which can only be printed on the disc during manufacturing. You can't duplicate a GameCube disc unless you have a disc manufacturing plant.

              It's very easy to prove that the barcode i

      • Re:Hmm (Score:4, Insightful)

        by gl4ss ( 559668 ) on Wednesday February 11, 2004 @07:18PM (#8254696) Homepage Journal
        well i'd be surprised(if gb3 played those). by the time they release anything that would be called 'gb3' it doesn't matter if it plays gc games or not(for them anyways).

        the main reason why it may have been a good cut to go for the small discs is that it's not easy to pirate.. it also conviniently chains every developer to using nintendo manufacturing for the discs probably(afaik they're the sole manufacturer of gameboy carts at least), whereas i suspect existing dvd/cd manufacturing lines are easily used for ps2/xbox.

    • Re:Hmm (Score:5, Informative)

      by Yorrike ( 322502 ) on Wednesday February 11, 2004 @07:14PM (#8254660) Journal
      let's face it, there's no good reason for them to make their game discs that small

      One of the main problems Nintendo had with moving to an optical format was load times. An 8mm disc at high rpm has a much smaller load time than a standard DVD, due to the laser having to move a much shorter distances in order to access data.

      • Re:Hmm (Score:4, Insightful)

        by Pluvius ( 734915 ) <pluvius3NO@SPAMgmail.com> on Wednesday February 11, 2004 @07:21PM (#8254726) Journal
        An 8mm disc at high rpm has a much smaller load time than a standard DVD, due to the laser having to move a much shorter distances in order to access data.

        These days, the difference in access time is a matter of seconds, and is minimized by smart programming. I didn't believe this excuse back when Nintendo used it to justify the usage of ROM chips for the N64, and I don't believe it now.

        Rob

        • Re:Hmm (Score:4, Insightful)

          by clu76 ( 620823 ) on Wednesday February 11, 2004 @09:06PM (#8255459) Homepage
          As an owner of an xbox and a gamecube, I can honestly say, without a doubt, the cube has better load times in general. There are some publishers that don't take advantage of this and don't optimize their load times for either system.
          • As an owner of a PS2 and a Gamecube I can honestly say that the load times for the Gamecube are MUCH fatser than the PS2. That is the primary reason that I will buy a Gamecube game instead of the PS2 version. Some of the load times for PS2 games are absolutely insane (*cough* Jedi Starfighter *cough*).
    • there's no good reason for them to make their game discs that small

      a) They dramatically reduced load times with those discs. b) It's harder to break/damage those discs. c) It's harder to make ROMs of the discs; in fact the GCN is still uncracked last I heard. d) The small size appeals more to the Japanese market. e) There's future potential for portable systems.

    • let's face it, there's no good reason for them to make their game discs that small...

      Actually, there was a good reason to make them that small - it helped stop some of the rampant piracy that is occuring/did occur on the PS1, PS2, XBox, and Dreamcast.

  • This could be very interesting... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Toxygen ( 738180 ) on Wednesday February 11, 2004 @06:55PM (#8254540) Journal
    The article mentions rumours that both the xbox2 and the N5 will IBM cpus and ATI vpus. It could be very interesting to see what happens when Nintendo and Microsoft's opposite business philosophies battle it out for our consumer dollar with such similar hardware.

    • Re:This could be very interesting... (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Most people who purchase consoles haven't got a clue what's under the hood anyway, so it shouldn't make a difference for 90% or more of their market.

  • failure (Score:5, Insightful)

    by mrshowtime ( 562809 ) on Wednesday February 11, 2004 @06:56PM (#8254549)
    There is an old adage which goes, "when you try to please everyone, you end up pleasing no one." To try and target EVERY demographic is silly. Pretty much what Hollywood is doing to movies today. Every movie has to be either dumbed down, or edited to be a PG-13 movie to appeal to the masses....

    • Re:failure (Score:2, Insightful)

      by spir0 ( 319821 )
      I think you misunderstand. A console SHOULD target every demographic. a game shouldn't.

      Nintendo are known for their bias towards "family-oriented" entertainment, and only tend to allow publishers to release such games on their consoles. Yes, there are exceptions, but they are very, very few.

      a console like the PS2 DOES support games written for every demographic. and that is one of the reasons why they have the biggest market share.

      Your comparison to Hollywood movies is wrong. You should be comparing GAM

      • Re:failure (Score:2, Insightful)

        by h0mer ( 181006 )
        Nintendo are known for their bias towards "family-oriented" entertainment, and only tend to allow publishers to release such games on their consoles. Yes, there are exceptions, but they are very, very few.

        a console like the PS2 DOES support games written for every demographic. and that is one of the reasons why they have the biggest market share

        Hahaha. That's why Sony made Acclaim edit BMX XXX for PS2, and Nintendo didn't? Nintendo hasn't had a 'clean' policy since 1993 and Mortal Kombat.

        You're confusin
        • that's why I said very few... nintendo have VERY FEW games which are considered "adult level" games... you mentioned two. another reply to mine mentioned 4 or 5...

          in the scheme of things that is piss all.

          and no, I don't think nintendo have allowed a port of GTA on the GC.. it's out for the GBA, but not for the GC... I think there's a good reason for that and it probably won't be because the developers won't port it...

          of course, I'm only jumping to conclusions here because I think Nintendo is still a "fam
          • Please learn some reading and writing comprehension before posting. Your original post said that Nintendo WOULDN'T LET publishers put out mature games on their systems and that is completely inaccurate.
            • Please learn some reading and writing comprehension before posting.

              my eyes burn at your scathing remarks, and your exceptional knowledge has humbled me.

              I'll go sign up for a course now.

    • "To try and target EVERY demographic is silly."

      I used to believe this, in some ways I still do. I mean, when the focus of an audience is narrower, then the appeal is broader. Fair enough. But are you really making a good product if only a handful of people are going to like it?

      I don't think Hollywood's failures are a result of targeting broad demographics. I used to. I used to think that the reason a movie was so bland was because they couldn't use the F-word or some other restriction that'd narro
    • Sigh. Insightful? Did you think that pulling that tired old cliche out of the bag proves that the two concepts are mutually exclusive?

      So what if a game tries to appeal to as many people as possible? The game doesn't automagically suck, as you are implying. Nor are narrowly targetted games the only ones that can be candidates for Game of the Year. If I may be obvious for a moment, it's BAD GAMES that please no one. Nothing to do with Hollywood or audiences at all.

      BTW don't get mad at Nintendo, they are n

    • Though I agree with you that its horrible to dumb down movies and edit them down to PG-13, your "old adage" doesnt seem to apply here... Hollywood movies may be dumbed down, but look at the ammount of money they make just BECAUSE they please the masses...Just because they dont please you or me doesnt mean they dont please a hell of a lot of people.

    • Re:failure (Score:3, Insightful)

      by burns210 ( 572621 )
      any yet Nintendo has done JUST THAT with every console they have produced... Enjoyable by all ages and both sexes... Xbox and PS2 are geared toward teenage/mid-20 males with cash... Nintendo has always been age nuetral and they are GREAT at it.

    • Re:failure (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Rallion ( 711805 )
      In addition to what the others have said, Nintendo has always tried to please everybody with a console. You know, it's always worked for them, too. And though, as has been stated, the problem with going for universal appeal is only applicable to individual games, Nintendo's best games were those that could be played and loved by anybody. Pretty much every mainstream Mario game comes to mind. There are others of less significance, like Pikmin (and perhaps even Metroid Prime) of the latest generaton.
    • To the contrary every Hollywood release is released to a VERY specific demographic with a VERY expected return. Large scale productions are most definately done on a whim to please everybody...nobody would ever fund it as it is has long been common knowledge that you cannot please everybody. Hollywood hucksters are not as stupid as their releases would indicate.

      In this day and age marketing is much more sophisticated than even the jaded /. crowd would be willing to admit. Like it or not, you are assimil
    • don't feed the trolls.

  • Rebranded Xbox2? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 11, 2004 @07:00PM (#8254568)
    I keep seeing people speculation that Nintendo is going to rebrand the Xbox2 since they are both using IBM cpus and ATI graphics. Now considering that Nintendo ALREADY uses IBM cpus and ATI graphics and the rumers that Xbox2 wont be backwards compatible and will drop the hard drive wouldn't it be more accurate to say Microsoft may be rebranding the next Nintendo machine for Xbox2? Now I don't think this will happen but I find it funny that Microsoft goes and creates a system that seems like a faster Gamecube (PPC, ATI graphics, No HD) and sudenly people accuse Nintendo of ripping off Microsoft's design. Reminds me of some recent patent cases.

    • Re:Rebranded Xbox2? (Score:3, Interesting)

      by *weasel ( 174362 )
      Microsoft already tried to buy Nintendo once. I doubt the big N would have rebuffed them only to become a glorified distributor 5 years later.

      plus, Microsoft has said they plan on having something (of the neXtBox) to show -this- year.

      why would it take 12 months for Nintendo to design a 'nintendo' branded case?

      I agree with you, it's extremely unlikely.

      Though I don't know that anyone (reasonable) is saying Nintendo ripped off MS's design, or vice-versa. Nintendo has been following a very consistant path

  • Yes! Finally someone is targeting women! (Score:4, Interesting)

    by metroid composite ( 710698 ) on Thursday February 12, 2004 @01:40AM (#8255971) Homepage Journal
    I've only heard this from friends who've visited Japan, but my understanding is that the gaming market is near 50/50 so it can be done. The female population in North America and Europe represents a HUGE untapped market, and while Sony and Microsoft are both putting all resources into the young adult male, this leaves the door wide open to capture the young adult female (and the kids market is nicely cornered off by Nintendo). Not to say that Nintendo should avoid the adult male market; Metroid Prime and Eternal Darkness are good.

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