Infinium Labs Threatens Gaming News Site 340
Over the past year or two, Slashdot has run a number of stories about Infinium Labs and their Phantom Game Console (that phrase still makes me smile, every time). I think we've been generous to them, taking their game console talk at more or less face value, despite the vaporous nature of the product. Now they've decided that threats are a better plan for improving their image than producing a real product, and threatened HardOCP over an older news story. Our own Robin Miller has talked to Infinium and written up his impressions of the situation.
Litigious Bastard Powers, Activate! (Score:5, Funny)
Dude, Whoa [penny-arcade.com]
I Hate The Stupid Phantom [penny-arcade.com]
Re:Litigious Bastard Powers, Activate! (Score:5, Funny)
I pre-ordered the ZapStation five years ago. Someone said it was running on a Celeron 333.
I got a pretty good price. Anyone know when they're shipping?
Stupid Moron Powers, Activate! (Score:3, Funny)
IANAL (Score:5, Interesting)
1. Produce hype and raise investment for a product that sounds like, looks like and feels like it's going to be vapourware.
2. Wait until the hordes of enthusiast web sites start labelling the product vapourware.
3. Sue the crap out of one of the smaller, juicier targets on the basis that they're having an financial impact on the product's ongoing development.
4. Rinse, repeat steps 1 and 3 until you've raised so much money you can either a) actually build the product or b) do a runner.
5. Well, profit. =P
Maybe I'm just a little jumpy in this SCO-et-al era. I'm not trying to bait but I would genuinely love to hear some
Re:IANAL (Score:4, Funny)
Okay, I give up (Score:5, Funny)
I give up. I can't tell the litigious bastards without a scorecard anymore.
Okay, someone clue me in. Which litigious bastards are we supposed to be angry at now?
These litigious bastards [sco.com] ... ...
these other litigious bastards [riaa.org]...
now these litigious bastards [infiniumlabs.com]
or perhaps (and oldie but a goodie) these litigious bastards [scientology.org]
Man, that's going to be an awful lot of HREFs to compile in my posts to talk about anybody on Slashdot anymore.
Re:Litigious Bastard Powers, Activate! (Score:3, Funny)
Way to win over potential customers (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Way to win over potential customers (Score:5, Funny)
Actually, it's libel. (Score:5, Insightful)
Why the hell does Infinium labs care now, five months later? If they felt wronged by the story, you'd think they'd have at least demanded a retraction back when it broke. So my guess is that this is the only way they can get back in the headlines anymore. They probably had some press release recently that was passed over by the media - so now they're fighting to be remembered.
Re:Actually, it's libel. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Actually, it's libel. (Score:5, Interesting)
In any event, I just sent the following email to their corporate lawyers, who, amazingly enough, go by the acronym MOFO:
Gentlemen:
First let me say that your corporate name, MOFO, sounds as if it were specifically designed to strike fear into the hearts of anyone you deal with. Or perhaps you just don't understand the slang meaning of the term MOFO.
I have just read the article, "Behind the Infinium Phantom Console," at the HardOCP site against which you have apparently issued a nasty letter in your best lawyerly legalese. I am curious, since I take the idea of freedom of speech quite seriously, just why exactly your client and you refused to supply the above mentioned site with any information as to what exactly you found inaccurate or distressing about that article. Personally, I found it quite enlightening and informative. Just for the record, just what exactly DO you find inaccurate about this story? I am always interested in learning the truth and I look forward to your reply so that I may further my knowledge of this company and its director.
Regards,
[deleted]
I'm eagerly awaiting the movie... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Actually, it's libel. (Score:4, Informative)
mofo seems to be a contraction of Morrison & Foerster LLP.
Re:Freedom of speech applies only to government. (Score:3, Informative)
The plaintiff asks the Court to impose penalties.
The Courts impose penalties by interpreting the Law.
The Courts cannot stifle free speech any more than, paraphrasing, the Congress who shall pass no Laws to infringe against the freedom of speech or press. Now if some journalist was squelched by their boss, or by the Editor of some other newspaper, then you're right-- the First Amendment doesn't cover that. We're not talking about corporations controlling the avenues of speech on their own, we're talking
Re:Freedom of speech applies only to government. (Score:3, Informative)
Both slander and libel require due process in a court of law, and are statutory, not constitutional, meaning that congress has enacted a law. The 1st amendment starts with "congress shall enact no law". If you and I have a business relationship (employment), you are free to cancel it for what I might say or write. If you want to force me to take back my words
Re:Actually, it's libel. (Score:5, Informative)
Infinium Labs would go to court to prove that HardOCP's article was libelous, and therefor not protected speech. One of two outcomes would occur:
A. The court agrees with Infinium Labs, ruling that the article is not, in fact, protected speech. HardOCP is punished and this case is not a First Amendment issue.
B. The court agrees with HardOCP, ruling that the article is protected speech. Infinium Labs' case is thrown out, and this case is not a First Amendment issue.
So either way, this is not a First Amendment issue. Try again.
Re:Actually, it's libel. (Score:3, Interesting)
They have no intent to sue (Score:5, Insightful)
They have no intent to sue. They just hoped that by sending a threatening letter they might get HardOCP to take down an article [hardocp.com] that might scare away the venture capitalists that they want to extract money from.
cock pistol, aim at foot, fire...ouch! (Score:5, Insightful)
Your response to the article should tell your prospective investors that you're not smart enough to actually deserve their money or to use it wisely.
established customer base (Score:3, Funny)
They already have 25 million units sold, and they're moving more all the time.
Now everyone knows about it (Score:3, Insightful)
Thanks to their frivilous lawsuit everyone and their dog will know about it. I can't imagine this sort of thing will be good for business.
Quite Right. (Score:4, Insightful)
It's sort of like when the Catholic church say we should boycott a movie. One that many have never heard of until the publicity of the boycott helps to a) make more people aware of the movie and b) pique the interest of those who may wonder, "What's the big fuss, maybe I should go see it to check out the hub-bub."
Had this letter never been written, then it would not have been linked and I would never have seen it. By Show of hands how many here are seeing this for the first time?
Remove everything (Score:4, Funny)
I would suggest that we cease and desist with ANY discussion of non-existant companies suing over non-existant damage arising out of non-existant product. Therefore HardOCP, Slashdot, et al should simply remove all references to [REDACTED] and their alleged console the [REDACTED].
It's the only way to ensure that such sites aren't the victims of spurious legal action. Else they'd be accessories to fraud for perpetuating information about things that don't exist.
Re:Way to win over potential customers (Score:5, Interesting)
The Phantom isn't vaporware... the COMPANY is vaporware. These guys are probably failed spammers... what is Bachus going to have once Infiniwhatsit strips him of his credibility?
Re:Way to win over potential customers (Score:3, Funny)
"I know! Let's sue a journalist!"
"No, no. Too harsh. All people want is a solid, physical unit shipped to a news magazine like IGN for their inspection. Why d
Re:Way to win over potential customers (Score:3, Informative)
Go Infinium.. or something.. (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm no legal strategist but wouldn't it be smarter for Infinium to actually demo one of these consoles then go after HardOCP for slander/defamation/whatever? Right now it sounds like they don't like the attacks on their vapourware. My idea assumes, naturally, that Infinium actuall has a Phantom console to demo...
Infinium needs to shit or get off the pot (ala SCO)
Re:Go Infinium.. or something.. (Score:2, Funny)
The Phantom console is real. It was demoed at CES [1up.com]. Penny Arcade, HardOCP, and other so-called "news sites" are slandering the company. I don't need to tell you how poor of an "editor" Michael Sims is for publishing such a biased article on Slashdot.
Sincerely,
Seth Finklestein
Game Industry Maven
Re:Go Infinium.. or something.. (Score:5, Insightful)
The negative news surrounding the company is because they have promised the moon and delivered squat. Game library: no show. Alliances with developers: zilch. The unit itself? As far as I can tell, ONE prototype was demoed. A prototype is not proof that the device is being mass-manufactured.
Can I buy the console? No. Can I play anything on it? Not really. Ergo: vapor.
Re:Go Infinium.. or something.. (Score:3, Interesting)
When I first heard of the Phantom I assumed it was one of those startups that exists for the purpose of failing but getting the founders paid while it happens. There's a lot of dumb people out there with a lot of money to throw around. At this point though it seems like they're goi
Re:Go Infinium.. or something.. (Score:3, Interesting)
They can demonstrate a nice PC case mod.
They have NOT demonstrated the ability to for example produce peripherals. They are using off the shelf logitech peripherals, as demonstrated in their screenshots [phantomgaming.net].
And I could easily be wrong, but the Phantom logo on that logitech keyboard just looks photoshopped on to me.
Not an attack on the hardware, per se... (Score:5, Insightful)
As a news organization, HardOCP has a lot going for them in a slander/libel case. The only thing I think which they might be liable on is the implication (not a direct statement) that Tim Roberts being at WorldCom was somehow related to the bankruptcy of WorldCom.
As for the trademark violations, IANAL, so I don't know how liable a news organization can be for using a company's name and logo in a report without their permission. I doubt that they're going to be in any serious trouble, so long as they go back and place "tm's" on everything, but trademark law has surprised me many times before.
Re:Not an attack on the hardware, per se... (Score:5, Funny)
You just made my morning.
Re:Go Infinium.. or something.. (Score:5, Interesting)
The letter is probably nothing more than legal posturing, intended to scare the little guy, but of little use to anyone who has their own lawyer.
Re:Go Infinium.. or something.. (Score:4, Insightful)
What a great way to get gamers to buy your product (Score:5, Funny)
/Guinness beer dude
BRILLIANT!
Bad move (Score:5, Interesting)
That's maybe why lots of people here still think DNF is not vaporware
Re:Bad move (Score:5, Funny)
The next step... (Score:5, Funny)
How about suing another console vendor for $1 Billion for infringing on IP in their vaporware console?
Losers. (Score:5, Funny)
I preemptively named my software company The Vapour Software Company, so that when people read articles about my late products they just think the writer is mentioning the name of my company again and again. The later my producs, the better the free advertising!
In other news... (Score:5, Funny)
How To Make Friends, corporate edition (Score:5, Funny)
President: Very well. Activate the Vinegar Device!
Is Andre Lamothe there? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Is Andre Lamothe there? (Score:5, Informative)
Interesting Business Plan (Score:2, Funny)
Step 2: ???
Step 3: Profit!
Time to make some money (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Time to make some money (Score:3, Funny)
Ooooh, big profit. :)
I borrow at 1.5 cents a share and buy them back at one cent a share!
And I'll do it with ONE THOUSAND SHARES! (pinky to motuh a la Dr. Evil) Muahahahaha!
Re:Time to make some money (Score:5, Informative)
It is publicly traded. See here! [msn.com]
Just what made you think they weren't?
Don't look behind the curtain (Score:5, Interesting)
In related news.... (Score:5, Funny)
In news related to this related news, legal procedings have been initiated against Slashdot, Penny Arcade, and the chick who used to work for Infinium who said something on Slashdot.
This is damn sad. (Score:5, Insightful)
While I have to give props to Roblimo for having the courage to have a bit of satirical fun with this, it almost makes me want to cry to realize that things have gotten this absurd.
Has the business world become so totally detached from reality that they honestly believe that they shouldn't be criticised for something as blatantly bullshit as this? What kind of strange alternate reality is this company living in?
Re:This is damn sad. (Score:5, Interesting)
The United States of America.
Re:This is damn sad. (Score:5, Insightful)
The reality of greed. I've known people like this. I agree completely with you- it's very, very sad. There is a kind of personality that craves "luxeries." Even before they have made any money, if they go on a business trip, they like to be in the nice hotel, to sit in the hot-tub, to eat expensive chocolates. Then they get some money, usually through some fluke or because some other greedy person has been duped, and then for the rest of their lives, they feel like they deserve that kind of income. So then they spend the rest of their lives (or until they have a real life changing experience *cross fingers*) doing everything they can to maintain it. They sponsor nascars, they buy stock in airlines, they blow through venture capital without any accountability or sense of responsibility- it's simply the money they deserve. A lot of criminals (of the enron sort) are made this way.
It's worse than a drug habit, because the whole world is telling them on some level that what they're doing is "success." As inneffective as it often is, it is good that society in general can tell a person "your drug habit is destroying your life." In the world of greed, though, this rarely happens. Instead, the person is circled by his greedy lawyers (tm) and business friends and political friends in high places. (I'm not saying those professions are all greedy- it's just that the greedy among them clump together).
Anyway, whether you make money or not, if you feel you would ever be susceptible to that feeling/habit, the one thing that we as humans can do despite popular culture's teachings is change our own character and personality with concious effort. The reason "Riches Don't Make you Happy" sounds so cliche is because it's true. And yet how many of us can actually be honest with ourselves and admit we believe that money will make us happier. Anyway, now I'm rambling. That's my brief overview of the altered reality of greed.
For the record- I LOVE INFINIUM LABS! Those terrible things the journalists said about you can't be true, and nothing I said in this post should in any way be construed to be referencing any of your noble founders.
Sycophantism (Score:4, Insightful)
I once had a sig that read "It's easier to listen to a sycophant, than a critic", and, after reading the above I was reminded of a criminology book I once read (apologies for not being able to remember the title) that posited the theory of "right-brain thinking" as one of the principle sources of criminality in man. In right-brain theory (if it can be called a theory), individuals learn from early childhood that satisfying the ego comes first, above all else . This leads to a rigid adherence to a "me first" attitude in every aspect of life. In essence, right-brainers mature with little to no self restraint, living every day in a constant state of "gimme now!!!" possessiveness. Anyone that tries to "oppress" the selfish behavior is automatically perceived as the "enemy", while those that encourage it are blessed as companions in arms.
Reading about this Infinium nonsense, and thinking over what you wrote, made me wonder: could capitalism will prove to be the greatest curse that mankind ever brought on itself? Could we be creating generations of right-brainers, all feeding one another's egos for the sole purpose of eliminating all competition?
Re:Sycophantism (Score:4, Insightful)
I would say that capitalism in its most raw form did exactly that. Hence we had (and some countries still have) problems with child labor, destructive monopolies (ahem), etc. etc. The thing is, when groups of right-brainers as you call them get too large, even capitalism spits them out. All the advances we've made in capitalism, from child-labor laws to employee-stock ownership plans, to new SEC oversight and laws that make Enron-type things not happen, are all the public reacting and plugging up another hole that greed exploited. It's comforting to know that capitalism + democracy patches those holes up, and while it will never eliminate greed, it does keep things in equilibrium more or less.
But as for the individual that suffers from it... That's the travesty.
Slashdot's reaction to this guy is a perfect example how society tolerates that right-braindness to a degree, but once they feel someone has crossed a line, it's a steep, slippery slope, and their 'friends' don't tend to stick with them, even if they're involved in the fall.
Re:This is damn sad. (Score:3, Insightful)
[H]ardOCP's response: (Score:5, Informative)
_____________________________
Kyle Bennett
Editor-in-Chief @ HardOCP.com
Nice to see they have no intention of rolling over.
Good for HardOCP! (Score:4, Interesting)
I have extended HardOCP.com's pledge to correct any and all possible inconsistencies or errors in our editorial entitled "Behind the Phantom Console" personally to Timothy Roberts and Kevin Bachus of Infinium Labs and they have yet to inform HardOCP.com of any information we presented as being not correct. This courtesy was extended on September 17, 2003, the date the article was published and has been extended several times since then with no reply ever being received by HardOCP.com. It is my opinion that Infinium Labs' only interest is stifling HardOCP.com and our opinions. HardOCP.com still stands by our thoughts and opinions put forth in our editorial and no amount of legal badgering and frivolous lawsuits will change those opinions that we have shared with our readers.
It's good to see a website refusing to be intimidated by spurious legal threats. To often, all it takes is the sound of a lawyer clearing his throat to get a website owner to panic and pull content. Of course, HardOCP is not exactly a two-bit operation, and Infinium Labs is far from a massive corporation, but I'll take my victories where I can. Here's to the free press.
Re:Good for HardOCP! (Score:3, Interesting)
Legal action (well..sort of) (Score:2)
*COUGH* Sco *COUGH*
$1,250,100 ... (Score:5, Funny)
Is it just me, or is anyone else wondering about that $100? I mean, $1.25 million is a nice, round number. Easy to remember and deal with, but that $100 extra is some sort of ugly wart at the end.
What is it? A birdbath? Prettier shingles? What honestly adjusts the price of a house by $100?!
----- ----- -----
Answer (Score:2)
Re:$1,250,100 ... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:$1,250,100 ... (Score:5, Interesting)
If you looked at the bottom of the Property Appraiser's Page, you would see that the last transaction on the property was when it was sold in 2001 for $100.00. That's where it comes from.
Re:$1,250,100 ... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:$1,250,100 ... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:$1,250,100 ... (Score:3, Interesting)
That way, when his virtual house of cards comes falling down, which it will, he still has a physical house to go back to.
Dishonest people filing for bankrupcy (which accounts for about 98% of bankrupcies) often transfer assets into the names of their children, etc to avoid losing them.
Random amusing guesses (Score:4, Funny)
Article In Question... (Score:3, Informative)
Anyways, anybody who is trying to sell stuff to the geek community needs to realize that most geeks just get pissed off by these companies bitching about stuff like this. Making threats(bullying) and trying to censor people(notice the .sig) annoys me.
Best Damn Gaming Company on the Planet (Score:5, Funny)
Just covering my bases...I hate lawyer letters...
Re:Best Damn Gaming Company on the Planet (Score:4, Funny)
Website gone? (Score:2, Funny)
seems like their site is down.. (Score:5, Funny)
hah (Score:5, Funny)
credibility... (Score:5, Funny)
What, no skill, talent, experience, vision, morality or integrity? That damn journalist must have cut those bits out to save on his word count.
(though, to be fair - from a slashdot editor, I would have expected : 'All I have is my credibilty, and my credibility').
I think HardOCP should agree to remove the article (Score:5, Insightful)
Just remove all articles. Inifinium has produced nothing but laughable trash when it comes to PR anyway and I don't think the gaming industry needs any more from blowhard vaporeware merchants. Don't give these guys any soap box, good bad or otherwise, in which to con venture capitol from anyone else. Especially with the clear lack of respect they have for the online community you would think they would want to entice.
Just make them vanish. I mean jeebus, these were the rocket scientists who couldn't get an online email form to work right - who thinks they can produce a secured broadband game delivery console before Sony and MS swallows up the market?
They want the "truth" to come out? Fine. Let them put a product on the shelves. Until them, just blackball them from the web.
next up at [H]ardOCP (Score:3, Funny)
Two ways to respond. (Score:3, Interesting)
Given the fact that they chose the former, I think it's speaks volumes about what sort of product (or in this case lack of one) they have to show, and makes HardOCP's article all the more credible.
Product? (Score:4, Insightful)
So, to Infinitum Labs, I say this: release your console! At the very least, demonstrate that this isn't some ploy to bilk money out of investors. What's that, Infinitum Labs? You say you can't do that?
I have seen this type of scam before!! (Score:5, Funny)
Scam #1: Start a business in a hot area, get a few componies interested in your idea's. Get investers interested in your company, but telling them how companies are dying to buy your new product. Then sale the company before people realies there is no product and it starts fold.
Scam #2: Tell investers you have a new product idea for a hot market, get them to invest lot's of money. Then pay yourself an outragous salary, until you have used up all the investment. Then say you were a victem of a tough market.
using google's power to discredit phantom (Score:4, Interesting)
It seems the Phantom gaming company is subject to the power of Google. I'm surprised they haven't sent legal letters asking Google to remove them from cache (maybe that's happened already -- I didn't read all of the related articles associated with the main articles).
I'm not surprised that Google is powerful, but instead how easy it could be used against somebody. It's a real eye opener, and potentially frightful to any public/coroporate figure.
Even for non-famous individuals, like most of us, this can be scary. For example, as we go through life some of our values and beliefs change based on the journey. However a repository of what you *were* like and what you *did in the past* might not accurately reflect what you are today. The use of information can sometimes be scary.
Did anyone else notice the resume?? (Score:3, Interesting)
Legal grounds (Or: ROTFLMAO) (Score:4, Insightful)
FTDA was intended to protect famous trademarks from being "diluted" through third-party derivative use. Unfortunately for Infinium, they'd have trouble simply proving their mark is "famous" in the legal sense of the term ("famous" for what? Vapor?). Even worse for them, injunctive relief under FTDA now adheres to an "actual harm" standard (Moseley v. V Secret Catalogue Inc., U.S., No. 01-1015, AKA "that Victoria's Secret case), which Infinium would be hard pressed to show.
Finally, of course, their threat is absolutely meaningless because of the provisions of 15 U.S.C. 1125(c)(4)(C):
Oops. How much they pay for that legal representation again?-Watchful.Babbler (*Still* no freaking password!)
Jiggery-pokery? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Jiggery-pokery? (Score:3, Funny)
Infinium is actually really cool! Check it out! (Score:5, Funny)
The problem with most lame-ass gamers these days is everyone expects to go to the store and buy a plastic box and you bring it home and plug it in and "play with it", as if pushing buttons and controllling things on the screen really matters. Well that's old thinking. Now days we don't have to hold a gaming system in our hands to appreciate it. We can just download a promotional video clips (that are all free by the way, why pay for games when promotional videos are free?) and it shows you what the system would look like, that is if you wanted a plastic box taking space in your home, but we don't have to actually hold it and play it, do we? No!
Infinium is taking the next bold step into "non-interactive promotional gaming" and all of you are just screwing around wasting money on your Pac-Man ancient history non-promotional I-have-to-hold-it-in-my-hands gaming systems. Losers! All of you! I'm never reading Slashdot again, at least not until I come back to work on Monday, I swear, all weekend no Slashdot!
It's coming: MARCH 31st 2004 !! (Score:3, Funny)
According to Phantom.net [phantom.net], the "creed comes to life March 31st 2004 at our Phantom online store where customers can customize their own Phantom Gaming Service to meet their individual needs." They go on to refer to March 31st 2004 as the "e-commerce launch" ROTFLMAO!!!!
There website reads like a vaporware/dot.bomb parody. Oh PLEEEASE let me submit my credit card information to the "Phantom Online Store"!
My Phantom Console is on order !!! (Score:4, Funny)
Just about says it all (Score:4, Funny)
IAAL - Here's the legal standard for libel... (Score:4, Informative)
stock info (Score:4, Informative)
Re:through my eyes (Score:2, Interesting)
But the conspiracy theorist in me is wondering how someone 'new around here' in one article just happens to have worked for the company featured in the very next one
quite a coincience you have to admit.
MOD PARENT DOWN (Score:4, Informative)
Let's see - this person is claiming to be Lyssa Watson but the domain the account links to is registered to Lisa Sabin. Furthermore, no Lyssa Watson has ever been employed at Infinium. Check the history of this account for further proof that this is thinly veiled disinformation in an attempt to gain karma [from moron mods] to further troll activities.
Re:MOD PARENT DOWN (Score:3, Funny)
But Mr/Mrs/Miss AC, how is it you know Infiniums employment history? I looked on google and found no evidence of any Mr/Mrs/Miss Anonymous Coward ever having been employed by Infinium.
I checked slashdot and found that you have mostly been responsible for a great number of missinformed posts, flaimes,and even a decent number of outright lies.
Re:ID numbers reveal the scam (Score:3, Informative)
Calling shenanigans (Score:5, Informative)
1) "Macroscale Design" is n't a degree I've heard of, if anything for designing products you'd have a product design degree.
2) You don't do product design in rendering packages like maya and lightwave, more like Solidworks or if you did n't have the cash Rhino3D.
I had no idea..... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:More info on this (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Boycott Phantom! (Score:3, Insightful)