Stores Neglecting Old Videogame Packaging? 138
Thanks to GamerDad for its editorial discussing the poor condition of older console games sold by videogame stores. The writer notes: "Getting N64 games in any kind of reasonable [boxed] condition seems to be next to impossible... even more shocking is the state of their SNES and Genesis stock." He continues: "With SNES games, I can sort of understand that the deterioration of cardboard would leave you with just the cartridge and the manual eventually, but apparently the stores are now just throwing out the manual if the box is torn/useless. Even Genesis cartridges, sold in those hard shell boxes, are rarely found in their original packaging anymore. It's the systematic destruction of our gaming history." The piece concludes: "Is it really so hard to maintain a policy of keeping the product in similar condition to how it's traded in or maybe even stop accepting bare games altogether to give your customers more reason to take care of their games to retain value?" What's the solution, if any, to this problem?
Who needs the package? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Who needs the package? (Score:2, Funny)
I could have sworn I was the only person who'd ever played Willy Beamish, little yet who still had the case.
Re:Who needs the package? (Score:2, Interesting)
As for what I do, I keep all the boxes games come in, but I flatten them. That way I can still check out the box (since box art is as fun for me today as album art used to be), but it takes up virtually no space.
Only box I have right now that isn't flattened is Neverwinter Nights and it's expansions. Th
Re:Who needs the package? (Score:2)
Let's be honest. Do you really play pac-man fFor the dynamic plot and rendering? duh, course not. You play it fFor the nostalgia value. It's a good game. It's nice to look at and play and on and on.
I wish i still had the boxes of all my 2600 games. Or maybe the original art, or something. Some of those were beautiful! [atariage.com] Sure, many were ho
Shocking! (Score:5, Insightful)
As opposed to all the other old used products on the shelves with well-preserved packaging . . .
Who cares? (Score:5, Insightful)
It isn't like the stores are getting games in good condition and delibrately beating them up; they get the game in the condition it is traded in, and if people aren't willing to buy it in that condition it isn't like they are being forced to.
I certainly don't like the suggestion of stores not accepting bare games in order to teach those people a lesson - if someone is desperately looking for an old copy of a game, do you think they would prefer the choice of mint condition or not at all? I think once they get desperate enough they will buy the game sans box and manual, and be pleased with their purchase...
Re:Who cares? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Who cares? (Score:5, Informative)
Having gotten my own house not too long ago, I've realized how much space that stuff takes up. I've actually gotten rid of quite a bit of boxes, or at least broken them down and put them in storage. I'm glad there are places online like MobyGames [mobygames.com] and The Video Game Museum [vgmuseum.com] to document the packaging of these games. And if you're an Amiga fan, don't forget to check out the CAPS project [caps-project.org], which is not only providing *exact* replicas of original disks, but also high quality scans of the packaging.
Re:Who cares? (Score:1, Insightful)
Lets just wish for DVD cases for everything.
My life will be complete.
Re:Who cares? (Score:1)
Re:Who cares? (Score:1)
The reason they don't keep the
Re:Who cares? (Score:5, Informative)
It isn't like the stores are getting games in good condition and delibrately beating them up; they get the game in the condition it is traded in, and if people aren't willing to buy it in that condition it isn't like they are being forced to.
I beg to differ. A little over a year ago I was on really hard times and I decided to trade all my duplicate GameBoy games with manuals and boxes down at the local GameStop in order to get some new games as presents for my kids. Imagine my horror as the guy behind the counter systematically pulled the games out of their boxes and threw the boxes in the trash and the manuals into a small shoe box where they keep manuals for people who are looking for them. (...and I've since discovered that most stores doen't even do this.)
If I could have afforded to, I would have taken everything back and tried to come up with money for my kids gaming presents some other way. As it is, it will be a cold day in hell before I sell anything else to one of these stores.
Re:Who cares? (Score:2, Insightful)
It's not like you were giving these games to the store for altruistic purposes. It does you no difference if these games have the box or not, since you don't have these games anymore.
Now, on the other hand, I'd be more concerned about *buying* these used games knowing this information, since if you wanted things like the box you know this store won't save it.
In 30 years... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:In 30 years... (Score:3, Interesting)
Hardly. You want some of my mint condition 8 track tapes? Baseball cards and comic books are collectibles because it doesn't require any additional pieces to be useful. Video games would require some kind of player which I guarentee will be obsolete and unavailable in 30 years or so rare it isn't worth buying anyway. Besides, y
Re: (Score:2)
Re:In 30 years... (Score:2)
No. I didn't even have a 5 1/4" floppy disk drive to read a bunch of old disks I found lying around when moving them. I just ended up pitching them since they're probably magnetically dead anyway. Imagine if I had to read 8" floppy disks. Media formats die which is why it's important to transfer all your data to a new format when it becomes available. I have to deal with that at work
Re:In 30 years... (Score:2)
He's complaing about used games? (Score:5, Funny)
If I was his editor I'd slap him on the back of the head for wasting his time. I've rarely even at gamestop seen new games in their boxes except todays games that come in DVD cases.
I'll do him a favor though. I wont sell my copy of KOTOR that the cat scratched up the box. Maybe then he can rest in peace.
Re:He's complaing about used games? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:He's complaing about used games? (Score:2)
I only buy games that have all the packaging unless I'm really desperate for them, and the guys at gamestop are happy to oblige me. They'll even pair up a used box/manual with whichever used disc is in the best condition--not necessarily the one it was traded in with.
Re:He's complaing about used games? (Score:2)
If you're anal retentive enough... (Score:5, Insightful)
How about PC Games? (Score:4, Interesting)
Along similar lines, it's not all that hard to track down a copy of Duck Hunt for the NES at the average gaming store. Just try to find a computer game from that era, though. Or even fifteen years later.
As is the case with so many collectibles these days, I'm afraid that eBay is our only hope.
Re:How about PC Games? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:How about PC Games? (Score:1)
Must... Resist...
"Help us, eBay-wan Kenobi, you're our only hope..."
DAMNIT!
Will that be Paper or Plastic? (Score:5, Interesting)
Smaller stores tend to have much better preowneds, for instance. I think the culprit is that most 'casual' gamers don't take care of their games (because they ARE casual gamers -- gaming isnt their 'passion'.. similar to people who don't take care of their cars VS people who love their cars), and only know of EB as a place to buy and sell them (again, because they ARE casual gamers, and don't know too much about anything about them), and therefore are also more likely to trade them in (yet again, because they ARE casual gamers, and therefore don't care to keep them).
end result -- people who dont care about theit games trading many of them into the most popular places.
Also, just my feelings on the subject...
I feel that while it IS "nice" to keep them, i have no real problem with it when i lose a cardboard box. its only when i lose a plastic case (pc cd jewel case, XBOX dvd case) that i have a problem, because then the game doesn't feel complete. Manuals are my biggest pet peeve, partially because games of old used to have huge ones, and that used to be worth like 50% of the cost, and i guess that feeling hasn't worn off.
Re:Will that be Paper or Plastic? (Score:1)
They're not selling to collectors. Or, rather, collectors aren't their primary market. The primary market is made up of people who just want to pick up a game either for sentimental reasons or because th
Re:Will that be Paper or Plastic? (Score:2)
Get them off the internet? (Score:4, Insightful)
But many people with a sense of nostalgia will just want to play the old games, and some documentation would be nice. I recently had an urge to play Ultima IV again (which was released as freeware some years back). Luckily a little googling uncovered numerous Ultima documentation projects that archive complete documentation for all the Ultima games. Some had scans of the originals, others had them transcribed into doc or ascii.
Another case is when I go and rent the odd game and the docs always seem to be missing. Again, its google to the rescue. I'm a little more hesitant about this though, as unauthorized online copies of instructions for new games may promote piracy (or at least make it more convienent). But for a game that's way past it's peak sales window, getting instructions on the internet can be a godsend.
One final option is www.gamefaqs.com which have walkthroughs and FAQs for just about every game imaginable. They dont make the full documentation available, but the FAQs will often have basic gameplay instructions to at least get you started.
Re:Get them off the internet? (Score:2)
Re:Get them off the internet? (Score:2)
The solution is simple. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:The solution is simple. (Score:4, Informative)
Not worth the effort (Score:4, Interesting)
The N64 games at my local EB are all the ones that no one wants - that's why they got traded in. No one buys them, they just use EB as a clearinghouse to get rid of the crap they wish they'd never bought.
No one cares about N64 games because there's no money in them.
The condition they're in really depends on who owned them before. I've seen a lot of games in mint condition (I saw a copy of Syphon Filter that looked like it had never been played), but I've seen a lot of games where people just don't care about what condition their games are in. Looking through the local EB's collection, most of the games without original cases are wrestling games. Shock.
The fact of the matter is, these are pre-owned games. They are used. They were played by someone else. No, they're not in excellent condition. That's why they're cheaper. Get over it.
--Dan
Re:Not worth the effort (Score:1)
Is that what all that extra business is worth, $4? Tell that to the people who wrote the manuals, and designed the posters and other material packaged with the game. Perhaps this is why most manuals the
Re:Not worth the effort (Score:2)
The people who wrote the manuals and designed the posters and so on and so forth got their business. EB is 'only' lowering the price however much it does because it can - people will pay the difference, and when then can give someone $15 in store credit and then sell it for $49.99, they will.
Oh well. They're still the
Boxed Boxes (Score:3, Insightful)
It all depends on the store. (Score:4, Insightful)
Peoples is Crazy (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm especially surprised, given that this article is coming from GamerDad. I mean if he's a dad, that means he has children, right? So maybe he's seen how children treat their toys? When I was a kid, I was pulling heads off of G.I. Joes. Do you think I was treating the packaging in a respectful manner?
From my point of view (I like games, not boxes) the only real problem that he raises in the entire article is that sometimes the games are missing the manual. Here are some solutions:
1) Don't worry about it, most games have ingame tutorials and most manuals were pretty useless. You can learn how to play by experimenting with the game.
2) Check out sites like GameFAQs [gamefaqs.com]. Many of the best written FAQs have instructions on how to play the game in the introductions.
3) Pay extra for games with manual (and box if you really want it). Then stores can pay kids selling games extra for their used games with manual (and box) and there will be incentive for them to take care of the product.
Re:Peoples is Crazy (Score:2)
*cough*newbie*cough*
Most older games don't have tutorials. Try picking up a game of Final Fantasy I. No in game instructions, no in game tutorial, no "how-to". (Hell the game was so hard you could get killed before reaching the first boss if you chose a bad party or didn't stock up.) "Experimenting" with a game is a recent thing. If you went to an arcade in t
Re:Peoples is Crazy (Score:2)
OK, first off he is talking about Super Nintendo and N64 games. Most of those *did* leave all kinds of room for experimentation to learn the games. Second off, you can play Final
Sad, but not unexpected... (Score:2, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Right on! (Score:2)
What was the first system to use CDROM's?
Re:Right on! (Score:1)
NEC's PC Engine (aka TurboGrafx 16), i believe.
Re:Right on! (Score:2)
Re:History? Please! (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:History? Please! (Score:1)
Nolan concieved Pong in '72. Maybe you are referring to home Pong. But, that was 1975.
Maybe you just have a problem with facts (and Japanese gaming concerns).
Re: (Score:2)
Re:History? Please! (Score:2)
Re:History? Please! (Score:1)
Re:History? Please! (Score:1)
Is it just not old enough to be history? In case you didn't notice, the SNES and Genesis are a good two console generations in the past. The SNES was released (in the US) in 1991, and the Genesis is even older. If those consoles aren't game history, then what are they? They're certainly not the present of games!
I guess we should just ignore the last 200 or so years of US History, too. After all, all the important stuff happened i
Re: (Score:2)
Re:History? Please! (Score:1)
That's not something that I said or implied.
Perhaps I just misunderstood. When you said "Video gaming history isn't about a bunch of johnny-come-lately Japanese executives who sought to get rich with slickly packaged, mass market products." I mentally emphasized the Japanese instead of the rest of it. After all, there's plenty of American companies mass marketing games, but you specifically mentioned Japanese. Yes, the Sega and Nintendo are Japanese companies, but I don't see how that's relevant.
Th
Re: (Score:2)
Re:History? Please! (Score:3, Insightful)
Which more or less defines Nintendo under Hiroshi Yamauchi.
On the other hand, while the systems themselves are not necessarily of extremely historical value, there are (of course) certain games from those systems that DO justify their historical value. For example: The original Zelda (arguably) pioneered (and in many ways remains) a completely different type of
Re:History? Please! (Score:1)
The original comment about preserving gaming history was presumably made by the person who submitted the story. So it's from their point of view that the SNES is important. It's important in their gaming history. Just like the NES and Master System and MegaDrive are for me, because that's what I used to talk about in school, swap games with friends for, save up to buy, spend hours
Re: (Score:2)
Re:History? Please! (Score:5, Insightful)
When does something become history? In 5 years, will the SNES be part of history? How about 10? Surely at least in another 20 years, you'd have to classify the Genesis and SNES as 'history.'
Now, my point: what the hell is wrong with starting to preserve it *now*, before it's gone? There are some very, very good games on all of those systems. It'd be a shame to lose bits and pieces of them forever.
Similarly, as someone else pointed out earlier in the thread, baseball cards were just little pieces of cardboard too. I certainly don't expect the packaging from video games to appreciate in value as much as a Joe Namath card, maybe there's still some reason to hang onto this stuff while it's still *possible* to hang onto it.
You're probably too old to appreciate all of videogame history, anyway. I consider myself lucky to have gotten into video gaming when I did -- old enough to appreciate the real classics, young enough that I'm not afraid of new things. (sorry, cheap shot)
--Jeremy
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
History is relative (Score:1)
If the NES was considered "historical" why was there just a museum exhibition dedicated to it? Level-X [asahi.com] just ended its showing at the Tokyo Metropolitan Museum of Photography. I was lucky enough to get to check it o
Re:History is relative (Score:2)
At that time:
The Atari 2600 had market penetration, but you get the distinct impression that people's full visions weren't being realised by the quality of the graphics and sound. I don't see Dragon Warrior (for example) as a success if ported to the 2600.
Doubtless someone was experimenting with a 68000 console which would have supplied plenty of horsepower, but nobody bought it.
The NES managed to bridge the two; it sold enough th
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Funcoland / Gamestop (Score:3, Insightful)
These stores pay rent per square feet. There aren't enough people paying collector's price to cover the rent loses. I don't think even in 10-20 years.
You're free to maintain history (Score:3, Insightful)
My Five Cents (Score:1)
What I do wish they'd focus on is selling NES and SNES games with the little plastic bits to keep dust out of them. Half of the difficulty I have in maintaining my NES/SNES collection stems from the fact that keeping dust out of the games is a perpetually losing battle.
Collectables! (Score:3, Funny)
Translation so slashdrones will understand it. (Score:2)
Step 1: Buy 'em for a dime apiece, stick each one in its own Zip-loc bag, then put 'em away for 20 years.
Step 2: ???
Step 3: Profit!
It happens to new games too (Score:2)
My stuff is in mint condition (Score:3, Insightful)
I run a used games shop... (Score:4, Interesting)
Atari rarely has the box, Intellivision often does have the box (go figure)...NES games don't as I said above, but they also rarely have the original plastic slip cases they came in either.
It's a mystery to be sure.
Re:I run a used games shop... (Score:1)
Re:I run a used games shop... (Score:1)
Don't reward these people! (Score:5, Interesting)
Ever think about what is REALLY killing the entertainment industries? Is it organized counterfitting? Or casual copying? Or file sharing?
Why doesn't anybody ever think of the used market as the real downfall of the entertainment industry? This is about used video games, most of which you can't get in stores anyway...but strech this out to music or movies. How many used music/movie stores are around where you live? How much business do they do? Chances are they do just as much, or maybe even more business than a normal record store.
Why is nobody talking about this? Why doesn't the RIAA do advertisements about how used sales take food out of the mouths of artists (which is MORE true than for P2P file sharing). Sure, it's legal. But the question is, is it ethical? How ethical is it to make money off of somebody elses's work..without them even getting a whiff of it?
Furthermore, this is more competition for the entertainment dollar. Spreading things even thinner.
Now, myself I'm torn on this issue. On one hand, I have a lot of pre-owned DVDs from my local movie store (buy 2 get 2 free builds your collection pretty fast). But at the same time, it really HAS to be affecting their real numbers. More-so than anything else really.
Again. Why isn't anybody talking about this?
Re:Don't reward these people! (Score:1)
Re:Don't reward these people! (Score:2)
Talk to R.E.M. or Garth Brooks.
Why doesn't the RIAA do advertisements about how used sales take food out of the mouths of artists (which is MORE true than for P2P file sharing).
Don't give them any ideas. They might buy a Congress and revoke the right of first sale. After seeing what Sonny Bono did, I wouldn't put it past the U.S. legislature.
Typo? (Score:1)
What's the solution, if any, to this "problem"?
I'll never forget (Score:2, Funny)
the crinckles and dents were impressed upon the very depths of my soul, as if someone had taken all my childhood memories and wiped their ass with them.
SNES OK, but PSX? (Score:1)
Re:SNES OK, but PSX? (Score:1)
Re:SNES OK, but PSX? (Score:2)
That store might not have enough space for the cases because the games arent selling because they aren't complete.... The major dept stores in the city I live in keep their music cds separate from the cases to deter theft. They cds are kept in
what about new games? (Score:1)
Nothing's going to change... (Score:3, Interesting)
I've heard reports of these older used games making up 5-10% of a store's sales. This may seem small...but think about how little the stores give when you trade in these games. The relative profit on a $3 Genesis game is far higher than for a $20 Game Boy Advance game.
Why, then, are they getting rid of these games? One of the biggest reasons is space. These cartridge games take up a fair amount of room that newer CD-based games just don't. If they don't have enough room for the actual games, where the heck would they put the boxes? It's far easier for the stores to just toss the packaging. Depressing, but that's the way it is...
This one still puzzles me - the Dreamcast isn't that old, and I know there's still demand for DC games. Oh well...
Re:Nothing's going to change... (Score:1)
Re:Nothing's going to change... (Score:2)
I wish I could find published data somewhere that would support that figure; alas, I don't think that information exists, or is accessible to me if it does...
Blockbuster (Score:2)
Personally, if the game rocks, and the packaging is something special, I'll save it. I've got a couple games who's boxes I've saved.
They don't pay you enough. (Score:1)
I'm guessing if anyone cares enough about games to keep the manual and box, they know better then to go to one of these stores, and instead sell/trade them over the internet.
Policy Doesn't Allow It (Score:1)
Why we don't keep the packaging (Score:2, Interesting)
I can't speak for all stores and much of this has already been touched upon by everyone else, but I can't seem to shut up so...
In the case of older games (which includes N64 titles - maybe you've lost track of time, but the system launched well over 5 years ago), they don't get traded in with the boxes and the instructions to begin with. In fact, the cart themselves often times look like the owner stored them in a ditch in their backyard - literally. Dirt caked, labels peeled, etc. It's ridiculous the con
Um . . . . Duh? (Score:4, Informative)
Having worked at an EB for three years, I'll go ahead and state the obvious. Generally, the people who take care of games keep them. Those who don't tend to trade them in relatively early in the lifespan of the game. What happens is something of a trickle-down effect; as games drop in price, those who couldn't afford to buy them in the first place (kids, or families who don't put as much financial priority on video games) end up buying them. Lather, rinse, repeat.
With regards to game stores taking care of them, I can only speak for the store I work at. I've already mentioned that the people who take care of these games don't trade them in or already have. That means the conditions of the games these stores get is usually fairly subpar. I remember a few times when we would get an older system and games in immaculate condition. Dave isn't finding those because the game collectors, who would visit our store at least once or twice a week, bought those first. What's more is that if there are two copies of Starfox 64 on the shelf, and one is in top condition and the other is not, which is more likely to go first since they're under the same SKU?
Frankly, there's a lot of extremely obvious reasons why these games are not in the best of shape, some of which I'd provided. Why Dave didn't think this through before he wrote his article is beyond me. Maybe he thinks, quite mistakingly, that Steve Morgan of EB or some member of the gaming store echlon will read his article and suddenly agree with him. But if you're making the same amount of profit whether they are in good condition or poor condition (and these stores do), then why change the behavior? Moreover, the people who take care of games usually know they can get a heck of a lot more than $0.50 from EB for a mint condition game.
Your best bet, Dave, is to buy off of eBay and inevitably pay more for a game that is in mint condition. Surprise: you pay for what you get for. What's probably discouraging for Dave, though, is that if he hasn't thought of the obvious reasons why this has occured, he's probably not thought ahead to what's going to happen when the disc generation hits the same age that cartridges are now. Keepem while you gotem.
Not everybody is a geek you know (Score:1)
Where I work (Score:1)
The stuff moves so infrequently and there is such a small trade in value for it, we just recently stopped taking it in. Yes, thats right, as of today, the location I work at no longer accepts 8-bit NES, Sega Genesis, Super
What a fucking useless article (Score:2)
hmm (Score:1)
I mean, i miss the big pc boxes too, it was sad to see them go out of style.
peace out.
~~~
It's a digital age -- paper is obsolete. (Score:2, Interesting)
In 100% of situations, I prefer to have the data on my computer where it takes zero cubic space, than in a box which takes up much-needed space. All this stuff is on the internet. And when I view the downloaded box art, it would look alot nicer on my 36" television (primary monitor) than it on a 5" cardboard piece-o-trash box.
Paper is obsolete.
It's really quite simple (Score:2)
Garage Sale Losers (Score:2)
If you want a goddamn 1977 Ford Pinto II, do you complain when the local Ford dealership doesn't have one available in mint condition?
If you wanna be a collector, fine. But there is a reason companies aren't making that shit anymore. There are like five of you who are interested in buying a NES cartridge in its original box in mint condition. Are you really surprised there is