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PlayStation (Games) XBox (Games) Entertainment Games

Xbox 2 Controller Loses Two Buttons, PS3 Gains One? 110

Posted by CowboyNeal from the controllers-a-go-go dept.
sbszine writes "Gaming rumors site C&VG is reporting that the the black and white buttons will be removed from the Xbox 2 controller, according to an un-named source. This would seem to support the reports of no backwards compatibility in Xbox 2. The site also has some interesting PS3 controller rumors: wireless control as standard, and a dedicated 'trigger' button for FPS games (in addition to the existing shoulder buttons)."
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Xbox 2 Controller Loses Two Buttons, PS3 Gains One? More

Xbox 2 Controller Loses Two Buttons, PS3 Gains One?

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  • Don't go the way of Nintendo!!! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by reiggin ( 646111 ) on Friday February 27, 2004 @02:40AM (#8406080)
    Ugh! Sony has a GREAT controller and they do not need to mess with it! More is less and less is more. I know this is controversial and up for debate, but I really do think that a good thing should not be tampered with. Heck, I still like the cramps I got from my NES pads.
    • Nintendo Controllers have gotten better with time. Just becuase they look funny doesn't mean the feel and play great.
      • Just becuase they look funny doesn't mean the feel and play great.

        Umm, did you mean to say 'Just because they look funny doesn't mean they feel and play great?' or 'Just because they look funny doesn't mean they don't feel and play great?'? I assume the latter..

        Either way, I hate the way the analog stick on the Nintendo feels.. just too flimsy.. Not only that, but my friends with Gamecubes have had to replace all their controllers at least once, because the analog stick just stops auto-centering.. Not th

        • Re:Don't go the way of Nintendo!!! (Score:4, Insightful)

          by Jarlsberg ( 643324 ) on Friday February 27, 2004 @03:11AM (#8406192) Journal
          Why do the companies feel the need to change controllers all the time? You get used to a playing with a freaking crazy-weird X-Box controller, use it for a couple of years, and then WHAM!, now there's a new crazy-weird X-Box 2 controller.

          My guess is that it's a marketing thing. You don't want to sell a new system with an old controller because you don't want the buyer to think he's getting less than he paid for.

          Anyway, I really like the original X-Box controller (not the slimmed down one). It's a great fit for my hands, unlike that supertiny Gamecube pad and the poor PS2 pad (sorry, don't like that one). Too bad the Xbox 2 pad will probably be a lot smaller than the original...

          • Anyway, I really like the original X-Box controller (not the slimmed down one). It's a great fit for my hands

            The size worked very well for me, too. My only problem was the diagonal slant of the buttons in combination of them being right above the right thumbstick. Instead of being able to actually grip the controller, I had to kind of let it relax in my hands, otherwise my thumb would keep moving the right thumbstick. And, since I couldn't actually grip it, it didn't feel as if I had as much control. Beca

    • Re:Don't go the way of Nintendo!!! (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Slashdot Insider ( 623670 ) on Friday February 27, 2004 @03:22AM (#8406236)
      Ugh! Sony has a GREAT controller and they do not need to mess with it!
      I would disagree with that. About the only thing Sony got right was the number of buttons (4 face, 4 triggers). Otherwise there is an awful lot to not like. Just so that I don't get modded as a troll, I'll list them (in no particular order).
      • analog face buttons that feel just like digital click switches--WHY?? (really, they should have made the 4 triggers analog, although they would have probably still ended up being cheap feeling)
      • poor positioning of the analog sticks (because they were after thoughts only put in due to the N64), not only do they cramp thumbs, but they make it difficult (if not impossible) to hit the start/select buttons without either hitting the sticks or contorting your thumb
      • (3 things) analog stick is too loose, rubbery surface gives no grip for your thumb, lacks the 8-way "insert" found on the Nintendo sticks
      • the broken up d-pad (killer on the thumb) which I do not understand because it's actually one piece of plastic under the surface
      • "rounded" grips for holding comfort, unfortunately not round enough--makes me wonder why they even wasted the plastic if they weren't going to do it right
      It would be a shame if Sony didn't mess with the dual shock design.
      • the broken up d-pad (killer on the thumb) which I do not understand because it's actually one piece of plastic under the surface

        Yeah I think that sucks too, each game company has to make their own variation on the d-pad because nintendo owns the patent on the best design.

      • (3 things) analog stick is too loose, rubbery surface gives no grip for your thumb, lacks the 8-way "insert" found on the Nintendo sticks

        You should really check out a PS2 or PSone controller. They solve just about every one of those 3 problems.
      • Actually, the broken-up D-Pad is the best D-Pad I've ever used, it's slightly better on your thumb than the + shaped ones (At least in my experience), and it's a heck of a lot better than the round ones which tend to favor diagonals over horizontal and vertical.

        As far as the grip, it really depends on your hands if the shape is good or not.

      • Re:Don't go the way of Nintendo!!! (Score:5, Insightful)

        by 0x0d0a ( 568518 ) on Friday February 27, 2004 @04:02AM (#8406339) Journal
        analog face buttons that feel just like digital click switches--WHY?? (really, they should have made the 4 triggers analog, although they would have probably still ended up being cheap feeling)

        I agree, generally. There are a few games that use these usefully, but I don't get a whole lot of good out of these. You just don't have enough control over the small drop in the button to do too much with them.

        I'd like to see the new triggers either be analog (the digital X-Box triggers were quite annoying) or to have feedback (a "click" or *sudden* drop in resistance as passing the press point)

        poor positioning of the analog sticks (because they were after thoughts only put in due to the N64), not only do they cramp thumbs, but they make it difficult (if not impossible) to hit the start/select buttons without either hitting the sticks or contorting your thumb

        Mmm...the start/select buttons usually do not need to be hit suddenly in games. And while I see what you're saying, there isn't much room for two analog sticks *unless* you stick them there.

        (3 things) analog stick is too loose, rubbery surface gives no grip for your thumb

        I would have liked the analog sticks to be a bit tighter as well, but that might have been fatiguing. I disagree with the thumb grip -- I found that the PS2 controllers have *excellent* grip, and that grip is a major reason why I like the pad so much...the analog sticks don't feel cheap, light, and plasticy like some other consoles.

        the broken up d-pad (killer on the thumb) which I do not understand because it's actually one piece of plastic under the surface

        That weirded me out at first. Then I used a fully joined circular Logitech pad. It's *much* easier to accidently roll the controller to a diagonal without the separation.

        • Mmm...the start/select buttons usually do not need to be hit suddenly in games. And while I see what you're saying, there isn't much room for two analog sticks *unless* you stick them there.

          You've apparently never lived with people who like to turn off the damned TV during a game of Zone of Enders 2. Fuckers.

          Uh...ontopic, right. Well, view GameCube. Two analog. Easy to hit start button. Allows your hands to rest in the most comfortable position for the most common control configuration. And don't complai
        • (the digital X-Box triggers were quite annoying)

          Which digital triggers are these? A prototype or something?
      • analog face buttons that feel just like digital click switches--WHY?? (really, they should have made the 4 triggers analog, although they would have probably still ended up being cheap feeling)
        Actually, as mentioned on Sony's site [playstation.com], all the buttons on the PS2 controller are analog, not just the face buttons. However, they do still all feel like digital on/off buttons.

      • Re:Don't go the way of Nintendo!!! (Score:4, Interesting)

        by GTRacer ( 234395 ) <gtracer308@@@yahoo...com> on Friday February 27, 2004 @09:41AM (#8407588) Homepage Journal
        I think others have replied, but as a longtime Nintendo fanboy converted by Gran Turismo, and back again:

        analog face buttons that feel just like digital click switches... All buttons with the exception of Start, Select, L3 and R3 are analog. I use X and Square all the time in racing games as Gas and Brake, and as long as the game supports it, and uses a decent sensitivity range (couugh *TIR* cough) they work fine.

        poor positioning of the analog sticks... I'll agree a little - I have large hands and sometimes in FPS's or other games that use both sticks (Robotron) I get a little "angled" because of how my thumbs line up. But for most games it's not a prob.

        analog stick is too loose, rubbery surface gives no grip for your thumb, lacks the 8-way "insert"... Totally agree here - especially when intense gaming action has led to sweaty thumbs. I hate when my thumb slides off the center of the stick and all my inputs are off. Or I get distracted... The DS2 is tighter than the DS1 though.

        the broken up d-pad... I don't play a lot of fighters, but when I do, I have no complaints about the cross.

        "rounded" grips for holding comfort... I've used almost every first-party console controller made in the last 20 years and I still feel the basic design of the DS is the best. It could use some tweaks (maybe two sizes like the Xbox pads) but overall, I prefer the DS layout to any of the others. Although the Xbox Controller S is a close second.

        I just can't get used to having only two shoulder buttons and most GC/Xbox games mapping those as Gas/Brake, leaving me to shift with face buttons. I think my most hated pad is the Dreamcast's, and one look at a DC pad and a non-S Xbox pad...

        GTRacer
        - Wonder if that PS to GC/XB controller adaptor is worth 12 bucks...

      • my biggest complaint about the playstation controller is the way the buttons are labeled. I mean, come on, shapes? I just can't get the hang of it,when I use my friend's playstation, because I'm used to the industry standard of LETTERS. someone says "oh, hit square" and I'm like "uhh. what?" seriously, in my opinion, the best controller is the xbox S-type: the sticks have just enough 'give' to them, the triggers are great, the analog face buttons actually work in the games that use them (oddly, the two
      • Personally I think the Dual Shock in its original form is the best game pad ever created. The analog sticks work great and the idea of using symbols for buttons was fantastic. I've never forgetten where the Triangle, Circle, or X is. Also short of dedicated real arcade sticks it the best thing going for MAME. Robotron and Smash TV are a joy to play on a Dual Shock.

        Like I said all a matter of taste. Every controller I've tried N64, Dreamcast, etc has always been a let down compared to it. Lastly if the cont
      • Last I checked, every button on the PS2 Dual Shock 2 was analog except Start and Select.

    • Re:Don't go the way of Nintendo!!! (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 27, 2004 @05:10AM (#8406501)
      I assume you haven't tested the GC controller. Ever noticed how its buttons have a unique layout and each button has a different shape? I really have to hand to the guys who thought of that particular feature. You *never* have to look down from the screen to find a button.


      The ps2 or xbox controllers feel different, because it's more difficult to locate a particular button based on symbols. On these consoles I constantly have to check where a button is located because all the buttons feel the same (doesn't apply to the shoulder buttons, of course). Granted, for someone who's very familiar with the controllers, this may not be a very big issue, but for casual players it can be quite difficult to instantly remember where the triangle-button is located.

      Now it may just be me, but I find the button layout of the cube controller more intuitive than any other modern console controller out there. Try it out, and you may see my point.

      • I agree about the GameCube's controller. A big primary button, a small secondary button, and "X", "Y" and "Z" in the same direction as in the 3D co-ordinate system.
      • I've got a Cube and a Playstation so I'll go ahead and ad my two cents. The Cube controller is an excellent controller that is just a joy to use. However, it's odd array of buttons can often lead much to be desired from games that are cross platform. Soul Calibur is an excellent example of this. Designed for a Dreamcast / PS controller type with four buttons in diamond, it relies on hitting 2 buttons simultaneously to do many moves. For moves that don't use "A" the Gamecube is tricky and/or relies on mappin
        • "Soul Calibur is an excellent example of this. Designed for a Dreamcast / PS controller type with four buttons in diamond, it relies on hitting 2 buttons simultaneously to do many moves."

          I see what you're saying, but SC was actually designed for a four-button arcade stick setup. I can't possibly recommend purchasing the Hori SC2 stick from your regular Japanese Import place enough. Its far, far better than using either a Gamecube or PS2 pad for the game.

          Alternatively, get used to using L as the block butt
          • Fair enough point. I do use the L trigger for block, which limits me to one built in combo on the R trigger. It might sound lame, but I have a bitch of a time hitting the XY combo consistently. Some fraction of the time, I hit A and either do a move I didn't intend or start Soul Charging in the midst of a heated exhange.

            To other comment about the cross combos on a diamond shape controller - that's easier to deal with. Firstly since each button is equally equipped (not everything goes through A). Secondly s
        • However, it's odd array of buttons can often lead much to be desired from games that are cross platform. Soul Calibur is an excellent example of this. Designed for a Dreamcast / PS controller type with four buttons in diamond, it relies on hitting 2 buttons simultaneously to do many moves. For moves that don't use "A" the Gamecube is tricky and/or relies on mapping a trigger to the combination. This leaves you short.

          You're short even on a Dreamcast or Playstation controller, unless you can hit opposite co
      • I really don't like the GC controller. The d-pad is way too small and out of place, making the games that DO use it a lot more of a pain than they need to be. (Megaman Network Transmission, for example) Then you've got the arrangement of the buttons themselves. A and B aren't too bad, though I find myself wishing they had standardized on a button size for them. X and Y, on the other hand, I find to be nearly impossible to use at the same time as A and B. Using the same game as an example, I have to complete
        • About the D-Pad, I can't say I completely disagree, but I have to ask, what's a better idea? I know that not having a solution doesn't make the problem insignificant, but that doesn't seem to bother some people who love the dual shock even with the awkward stick location, but hate the GameCube controller because of the awkward pad location.

          Personally I find that I can reach the pad just fine, even for extended use, but I do understand how it could be a problem for some hands.
          • Well.. answering this may make me sound like a troll or like I'm trying to pick a fight, but..

            There's one big difference between the two. The dualshock's sticks are towards the center of the controller, and the dpad on the GC controller is on the far lower left. The difference comes down to the fact that my hands have to contort to hit the dpad and STILL don't quite get it comfortably on the GC, but only have a slight yet comfortable shift for the PS2 controller. I have similar issues with the x-box contro
      • Granted, for someone who's very familiar with the controllers, this may not be a very big issue, but for casual players it can be quite difficult to instantly remember where the triangle-button is located.

        If you have played just a small number of games on the Playstation, you'll soon find out that the triangle button escapes the menus (ie. acts as the Escape button on a computer keyboard), the X button selects items (as the Enter key) and such things. The other two main buttons, the square button and the

    • the triggers are GREAT for certain games.

      properly done they're excellent in driving games for example.
    • Personally, I can't stand the PS2 controller, and the original Xbox controller is abominable. The S-Type fixed most of its problems, if not all. The problems I have with the Dual Shock: I'm 6' 4". I have large hands. Could we get some bigger grips, bigger everything? The D-pad buttons suck; I should be able to put my thumb in teh center, and roll it slightly outward to use an arrow; the Dual Shock's crazy 4 different buttons make that harder than it should be. The sticks are too short. I have long t
    • The GCN control is almost perfect. The only complain I have is the odd positioned Z button. It would be perfect if the Z were UNDER the shoulder, and not where it is. It fits my hand in an awesome way (granted, hand size cause that YMMV) and the c-stick is placed incredible well for camera control.

      The PS2 controller is good also. I find that the buttons placed like the snes buttons are harder to press than the more intuitive GCN buttons. And the four triggers aren't confortable like they are placed. R2 and
    • I agree. I think that the Xbox controller S is the best controller ever for a console. I think the black and white buttons worked great for online play and will be sorry to see them go. They were conviniently placed and didn't interfere with anything, they should have kept them. The platstation controller is good also. I think the Dreamcast was second place though. The two analog thumb sticks being staggered slightly works great for shooters, and I am a shooter junky. :) The old school Xbox controller that
  • PSX/PS2 is one of the most comfotable and easy to use controllers I have ever used Dont fuck with the formuala

    • Improvements to playstation controller (Score:5, Interesting)

      by 0x0d0a ( 568518 ) on Friday February 27, 2004 @03:53AM (#8406321) Journal
      I agree that the Dual Shock 2 (PS2) controller is just about the best gamepad you could buy, unless you have *very* specific needs for one thing or another. If you buy one and a USB adapter from Lik-Sang, you have just about the best gamepad in existence for playing Game Boy, GBA, NES, SNES, Neo-Geo, etc games on your computer.

      I do think that a couple changes could be made worthwhile.

      People joked about the size of the X-Box controller. While I do think that the thing was a bit awkward (and it was unusual), it did teach me that larger controllers aren't a particularly bizarre idea. I *would* like to have larger grips on the PS2 controller -- thicker and longer.

      If Sony can put triggers on the PS2 without ruining the balance, more power to them. One thing I'd like to see -- the triggers being *analog*, unlike the X-Box's ridiculous digital triggers. It's so frusterating to both have no feedback in a trigger to know when it's activated, no click or anything, and to lack analog control, which would make up for not having said feedback.
      • Note how Nintendo made their controller, it was nice, ergonomic, and even quite comfy. The problem was that Nintendo designed it for a small hand, the result was a controller great for my little sister, but a little awkward for a person with larger hands. I'm saying that, "Does it really matter what the manufacturer makes?" Won't we all go buy better, more feature rich controllers from a third-party vendor anyway? Will we even care how much it costs to rent a crane to move the Xbox 2? We will just see.
        • How many people really have 3rd party controllers exclusively on their console? Personally, because of an issue I had with a particular manufacturer's controller on the PS1, I have no 3rd party controllers for any of the current generation consoles, except the DreamCast (and that controller has sticky triggers because it's so poorly made). I've been looking at the Logitech wireless controllers for the XBox and PS2, but I'm having trouble justifying the price when I'd need at least 2 of them for each console
        • I have ordinary sized, perhaps even slightly large hands, and I find the GC controller very comfortable, even for long periods of time. So does my sister, who has much smaller hands than me.

          It's just a matter of taste, I guess.

          I also don't find the standard Xbox controller all that big and unwieldy, though it is significantly larger than the PS or GC controllers. I do hate the strange gemstone-like buttons, though. They make my poor thumb hurt.
      • This is the second post in this story where you've bashed the Xbox controller for its digital triggers. They're analog! Just like the Dreamcast. Have you not played a racing game or anything that uses them?
      • The Xbox controller's triggers ARE analog. Any they have just the right amount of resistance, IMHO.
      • I'd just like to add to the geek chorus, and point out that the x-box triggers are analogue.

  • Keep your wrist jokes to your self. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by August_zero ( 654282 ) on Friday February 27, 2004 @03:10AM (#8406187)
    I really hope they change the shape of the PS3 controller, neither the cube nor the x-box controllers (neither x-box, the canned ham or the smaller one) give me any problems, but the PS2 controllers give me a sore hand. Its those little tails, they dig right into the palm and while it isn't a lot of pressure, I get sore after awhile.

    Then again I may be some kind of mutant and could be the only one with this problem, but Sony has had the exact same controller for 2 generations now, would a change not be good?

  • One trigger button? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by illuminata ( 668963 ) on Friday February 27, 2004 @03:12AM (#8406195) Journal
    Most current fps games have a secondary fire (sometimes a scope or other feature if you're getting technical) on their weapons. They normally require a second button or trigger. Having just one trigger button doesn't make sense unless Sony plans on changing the fundamentals of most fps games. In this case, having the trigger for primary fire and a non-trigger button for secondary fire would feel clunky, if you ask me.

    I'm not going to buy this rumor just yet, and hopefully it won't come true.

  • Oh a trigger button? Sounds familiar... (Score:3)

    by Yrd ( 253300 ) on Friday February 27, 2004 @03:13AM (#8406199) Homepage
    Sounds rather like the Z button on the N64, doesn't it?

    Which was, incidentally, fantastic. Unfortunately I'm not familiar enough with Gamecube controllers to remember if they have one or not. Clearly I need to get a Gamecube.
    • The analog shoulder buttons on the Gamecube are trigger-like. Your finger naturally rests in them while holding the controller.
      • The analog shoulder buttons on the Gamecube are trigger-like. Your finger naturally rests in them while holding the controller.

        The left and right triggers are natural and trigger-like (like the xbox), but the Z button is a digital third trigger (much like the playstation triggers). If they really needed it, I would have rather they put it on top of the controller with the other four.
    • I love the N64 pad (I have nine (9) of them... don't ask) but I have to point out (after taking pads apart!) the N64 "trigger" is really just a button like every other, but nicely placed like a trigger and hinged :). I'm thinking maybe the PS3 will actually have a trigger-like action? That could be interesting, no? Imagine if it even had a screw to adjust the sensitivy/release points [i forget the technical terms, it's been years since i read a rifle mag) like my air rifle ;)
    • Just for reference, the 'Z' button on the Gamecube controllers are right above the 'R' button. Nice placement, but very hard to remember that its there, or to hit it without accidently tapping 'R'

  • What about madden nfl (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Seahawk ( 70898 ) <ttsNO@SPAMimage.dk> on Friday February 27, 2004 @03:43AM (#8406298)
    I'm not sure I really like this change to the xbox controller.

    Sure - the black and white buttons arent that handy when in action, but they are very usefull in a game like madden nfl where you have ALOT of things you can do pre snap.

    I have a hard time imagining how to do without these two buttons and have the same amount of options! :o/

  • Controllers (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Deliveranc3 ( 629997 ) <<deliverance> <at> <level4.org>> on Friday February 27, 2004 @04:59AM (#8406475) Journal
    I do think a new system should have new controllers. Being able to use a dual shock from a PS1 to a PS2 was a nice touch for some people though.

    My favorite controller remains the dreamcast but the Xbox S controllers I have are pretty near and dear to my heart.

    Some of my friends have ps2's and they can't deal with analogue, I guess the sticks are just too flimsy or something. Anyway we play fighting, FPS, and driving games(occasionally strategie).

    Console controllers are terrible for all of these except fighter's, the driving games are what hurt the most because it would be so easy to just make the triggers analogue, all of the crappy physics could be negated with some analogue triggers and good force feedback. FPS's require triigers, they found that out with GoldenEye, granted it wasn't perfect but it was a lot closer, some of the more recent games have tried to offer more functionality with fewer buttons and have gotten burned(R6:Raven Shield, GTA:vice city[xbox]). Their success is due to the fantastic original design and they can afford to suffer from assbackwards menu's, when someone games on a pc they often have to deal with 20-25 buttons (proper voice and weapon binds) and mastering a game on a console means getting good muscle memory of controller layout. We can use more button's, your developers want them, what are you thinking?

    My requests for next gen controllers (not listed above) are decent force feedback, and analogue sticks that are easy to use (Play station too loose, Xbox inside feels digital outside requires too much precision for casual gamers, Gamecube good god what were you thinking.

    • Dreamcast? (Score:2, Funny)

      by gumpish ( 682245 )
      My favorite controller remains the dreamcast

      Such an obvious troll...
    • I find the Gamecube analog sticks very comfortable.

      The grooves on the primary stick give good grip and the 'gated' design makes it easier to hit diagonals properly.

      The secondary (yellow) stick is designed not for putting your finger on top of it, but to be pushed from the sides by your thumb.

      Personally, I find the Gamecube controller to be the most comfortable controller I have ever used. It's just so friggin' intuitive.
      • The one downfall of the Gamecube controller is the z button, it's a bit hard to get to at times, much like black and white on the Xbox S, not show stopping but annoying. I'd also like to see Sony replace the shapes with letters, letters are just easier when you're trying to learn a move or something. However I don't see this happening since Sony is using the shapes in their branding.
    • I find the Dreamcast controller to be sadly underrated by many people, I hated it to start with but after Crazy Taxi I grew to really love the pad, particularly the analogue stick which I think is probably my favourite ever because it had a very smooth action.

      I thought the "fat" X-Box controller would be the spiritual successor to the DC's pad, but sadly it was some weird mutant thing that tried to copy the DC, Dual Shock and N64 pad all at once. :) The S controller is a lovely pad though.

      I am concer

  • Analog Triggers (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Neuticle ( 255200 ) on Friday February 27, 2004 @07:41AM (#8406835) Homepage
    People keep complaining about the triggers on the ps2 or xbox, but I think the Gamecube triggers are great.
    They are analogue, have a good range of motion and they have a digital click when you fully depress them and then push just a little more. It's great for precisely controlling speed in games like Rogue Leader so you can get behind a ship and tail them or boost away if you're in trouble. I don't understand why one would make an analogue trigger like the ps2's triggers. The range of motion would be so short fine controll would be way to hard.

    Also, the Gamecube triggers are nice and comfortably curved so you fingers don't slide off or cramp while trying to hold them in place, it just kind of cradles your fingers where they should be. That, and Nintendo obviously made the right choice in putting the left joystick under the thumb's natural rest. I absolutely hate the left joystick on the ps2 controller, you have to angle your hand all janky, or the joystick sits under the joint of the thumb instead of under the nailbed like it should. Using both joysticks on the ps2 requires me to rotate both hands into an uncomfortable position, ugh. The triggers suck and those afterthought joysticks HAVE to move!

    • Re:Analog Triggers (Score:3, Interesting)

      by op51n ( 544058 )
      Regarding the bad analogue on PS2 Dual Shock buttons, I actually found it gave quite good control. The control is not in how far you depress them, but how hard you subsequently press.
      For things like GTA:VC this allowed good control of speed. I never did get used to it for shooting in FIFA whichever it was I played briefly.

      As for the XBox triggers, I found them very good for something like Colin McRae Rally, where they are used in place of the right analogue stick on the PS2, to control accelerate and bre

  • Who the heck cares? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by dstillz ( 704959 )
    Who the heck cares? These are unfounded, unconfirmed rumors. For all we know, the PS3 and XBox Next could use psychic control.

  • Sony vs. Nintendo Strategy (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Tetrad_of_doom ( 750972 ) on Friday February 27, 2004 @08:47AM (#8407134)

    I think it is very interesting that while Nintendo has been talking recently about simplifying gameplay and having games that use only a single button, Sony is making their controler more complicated.

    I think the end result will be the PS3 appealing to the college and up crowd, and the Nintendo Hypercube appealing to the younger crowd, families, and old school gamers. In fact, very close to the current situation.

    Fortunately, Sony has figured out that one of the best things Nintendo has done this generation is the Wavebird. I'm glad the default controller is rumored to be wireless.

    • Fortunately, Sony has figured out that one of the best things Nintendo has done this generation is the Wavebird. I'm glad the default controller is rumored to be wireless.

      Especially if this means that there will be no need to buy a Multitap. It's about time Sony got off that kick...

  • Why mess with everything that WORKED? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by tprime ( 673835 ) on Friday February 27, 2004 @09:24AM (#8407445)
    I don't get it.. xBox was far from a perfect system, but the things they are changing are not the ones that need to be changed. While the original controller that shipped with the xbox couldn't have been much worse, the s controller was very comfortable and functional. The original b/w buttons were a long way away from where they were usable, the S controller made them great auxillary buttons for things like audibles in sports games or potions in ActionRPGs. The size fits nicely into many people's hands, in fact, I now prefer my S controllers to my Dual Shock controllers (long play cramps my hands on the Sony joysticks). The S controller should be refined, not destroyed and rebuilt. Then again, with the xbox Next seemingly changing everything else that worked or made sense (hard drive for downloadable content, caching and game saving, No backwards compatibility, etc.) it wouldn't surprise me. It would just be nice to have the triggers be analong...

    Even though I said that the Dual Shock controllers give my hands cramps after hours of playing, I still think they are some of the best controllers I have ever used. They are simple. Minor enhancements to these controllers would help, but don't make it into an N64 controller. The changes kind of scare me, but I AM looking forward to the wireless.

    I thought the same thing about the Nintendo controllers that everyone cracks on them about.. Then I played my brothers Gamecube for a few hours. While the layout of the buttons is really funky initially, after a few hours of play, it is obvious a LOT of thought went into its design. The buttons just FEEL like they are in the right places when you need to press them. I am sure that a Gamecube owner can probably explain it better than I can.

    Go ahead, flame me.. I know I just jumped into a console holy war.
    • I own a GameCube and I concur that I prefer the Cube's controller to just about any other controller I've used. The Playstation controller makes my hands ache after not long playing, but the GameCube controller I can play with for long periods of time with no pain at all. It's enough of a difference that I've searched out GameCube versions of games instead of the PS2 versions just so I can play them generally pain free.
  • As interesting and fairly reliable this report sounds, I think most of us are thinking about this too hard.

    according to an un-named source.

    An un-named source? Gee, wow, thats real reliable.

  • Current Controlers... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Reapy ( 688651 ) on Friday February 27, 2004 @11:54AM (#8408986)
    I have to say, I really enjoy the shape and texture of the xbox s controller. It's actually not too bad of a joystick, its big problem is really the black and white buttons, and the shape of the buttons themselves. They are rounded up, so if i'm holding them down, I start to hurt my fingers. I got top spin a while ago and now I don't play it because it hurts my hands to hold down the buttons for a long duration. The buttons need to be flattened out like ont he gamecube or ps2. The black and white ones just suck. They are good for halo type use, flashlight on off, or switching grenades, but they arent versital enough to be used in all games. There's no reason for them to be pushed into the controller and difficult to hit.

    Gamecube is nice, but the direction pad sucks and there's not enough buttons to translate cross platform games effectivly. But otherwise the layout is nice and unique, though a little hard for me to play a game where you'd have to switch which buttons you are hitting quickly, like doing x,y,b or something is tough to move your thumb to sometimes. C stick also sucks. Its like the b/w buttons on xbox, can be used for non important stuff, but why limit controls like that when you can just create an effective right analog stick?

    I like the ps2's dpad the best for whatever reason. Any of the round ones you see on computer joypads suck for me, becuase I cant press absolute directions consistantly.

    A personal pet peeve of mine are the big trigger buttons. Anygame where to play it you have to hold the r trigger down for the duration (driving type game or something), makes my fingers hurt when I'm done playing a long session. Its a big bulky button, and theres a lot of range of motion to get it to fire off. If the buttons were smoothly responsive the whole way from start to finish, it wouldnt be bad, but when theres like 4 cm of deadzone that just makes my finger tired. That's why I like the ps2 the best, quick little toggle triggers that I can hit quick, and they respond quick.

    One big complaint for all three is playing something like soul calibur on them sucks. Whenever you have to press 2 or even 3 buttons at once, I find it very hard to do with my thumbs. So what happens is I hold the controler with my right wrist flipped over and use my index and middle finger to press the buttons. After a while though that gets painful. Hard to manage the simultanious presses now a days...

    I want responsiveness from a controller and some good erganomics behind it. I don't want force feed back messing up my control and I don't want vibration that'll give me jollys when I put the thing in my lap.

    Speaking of that, does anyone think adding vibration to controlers makes em die easier? Ever since I got the ps1 controler with vibration in it, the lifetime of my joysticks have been cut in half. My nes and snes and original non analog ps1 controlers still work fine, and they've had twice as much of a work out as the vibration ones. Meanwhile the vibrating ones die after a year of good use. Oh well. Can only cross my fingers and pray the next round of joys are well thought out and comfortable.
    • The black and white buttons on the Xbox controller are good in Halo...

      But you also mentioned Top Spin. The buttons are used to 'give attitude' after a point. And for this reason they are good buttons- they are not part of the GAME, but just some additional buttons to do extra stuff.

      I find it makes sense that there are buttons that won't usually make your character move or take action, but affect the game play.

      For instance in Links, they change you to the 'fly around' mode. In Deus Ex, they bring the m
  • This would seem to support the reports of no backwards compatibility in Xbox 2.

    Are you talking about games or controllers?

    If you can't play XBOX games on the XBOX2, that is dumb. If you can't plug in and use a XBOX controller into the XBOX2 and use it, I don't think that matters much.

    As to the form debate... they all have good and bad features.
    • Good 3rd party controllers - like the XBox Lazer Wireless Controller cost $50 each. 4 of these for the current system runs $200. Will I have to spend $200 again to get new wireless controllers?
      • So? You bought them for your XBOX that you have now, not the future machine that Microsoft may or may not produce.

        It is in Microsoft's history to break compatability...
        • I don't have to get a new Logitech trackball each time I get a new PC or a new copy of Photoshop every time I upgrade Windoze. Why shouldn't I insist in iterative changes that wold let users keep their force feedback steering wheels and older games. They might sell more units if the games are backwards compatible as well by having a larger game library. This can only be done if the controllers are compatible as well.
          • That is because computers are mired in that swamp called 'backward compatibility'. Get rid of backward compatibility, and EVERYTHING becomes easier, and frequently better.

            I would rather move forward, than push for backward compability. It would suck if we were still using Atari joysticks with one button.
  • The D-pad is just something I'm extremely annoyed with. None of the modern consoles have had anything near a decent D-pad. The GC's D-pad is a joke with its size, the Xbox is just too rigid, while the PS-controller's D-pad is just too insensitive. For my tastes. I know D-pads aren't used in games as much as in the (S)NES-era, but would it be too much asked, if I'd want a decent D-pad on the controller, so that when I want to use it, it wouldn't bug the hell out of me.
  • I don't see the need for adding a Z-style button on the Dual Shock. Most people that I've seen leave their indexes on top of the controller anyway, if not indexes and middles. Pushing a Z-button with anything but the index finger would feel awkward, and there's just not enough room to hold a DS comfortably with your finger dropped to where C&VG tells us the button will be.

    But the wireless sounds nice :D
  • Maybe the trigger for fps games could be like the Z button on N64 controllers. I think it would be a bad idea, i like using the r1 button as trigger.
  • Wouldn't they wear out fairly quick in vibration mode?

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