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XBox (Games) Entertainment Games

Xbox 2 Sneak Peek May Not Involve Hardware? 33

Posted by simoniker from the talk-about-it-animatedly-instead dept.
Thanks to GamesIndustry.biz for its article discussing the possible unveiling of the Xbox 2 at Game Developer's Conference in San Jose later this month. According to the piece, a Microsoft Japan staffer suggested that "the console's actual hardware will probably not be unveiled at GDC, and that a decision had not yet been taken to as to when the technical specifications of the system should be released." Although some basic technical details have allegedly been leaked, the piece argues: "Some commentators have suggested that Microsoft is holding back from a final decision on the RAM, and possibly on the inclusion of a hard drive, until it finds out what Sony is planning to do with the PS3."
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Xbox 2 Sneak Peek May Not Involve Hardware? More

Xbox 2 Sneak Peek May Not Involve Hardware?

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  • Hrm (Score:4, Insightful)

    by The-Bus ( 138060 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2004 @07:15AM (#8508506)
    Well, just nice to see Sony still has a real lead in the industry, not only in sales but also in deciding what other hardware will look like.

    One of the reasons I buy a game for the Xbox instead of the PS2 (if it's out for both consoles) is that the Xbox has the hard drive. I don't need to worry about memory cards, I can save more, I can listen to my own music... If Xbox2 doesn't have this, it won't be a console I buy immediately. It seems like they are going backwards with this to me.

    • Re:Hrm (Score:4, Funny)

      by AKnightCowboy ( 608632 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2004 @07:55AM (#8508657)
      Well, just nice to see Sony still has a real lead in the industry, not only in sales but also in deciding what other hardware will look like.

      It's always nice to see Microsoft demonstrating their ability to innovate in any industry they tackle.

      • Re:Hrm (Score:3, Interesting)

        by EnglishTim ( 9662 )
        I think actually this is a reaction that shows Microsoft's disappointment that the games developers did not innovate more with microsoft's innovation (putting a hard drive in a console). Hardy any games used it, and I don't of any that used it in a particularly interesting way.

        Considering the expense of including a hard drive, I'm not surprised that they are trying to see if they can leave it out next time, as nobody did much with it this time.

        • Re:Hrm (Score:3, Interesting)

          by fireduck ( 197000 )
          Its not surprising that the hard drive was not completely utilized. The only games that are going to really use it are the X-box exclusive games. You don't have that feature on either the PS2 or GC, so developers working on cross platform games are not going to spend much if any time working on a feature that is only supported on 1/3rd of the consoles (and only like 13% of the console market). So, you're left with first and second party developers to fully utilize the true power of the X-box, and except
        • Downloadable content for console games is forward progress if I've ever seen it. Every game that leveraged that was truly taking advantage of the harddrive. Similarly with every game that supported custom soundtracks (most prominently, imo, the GTA3/VC double-pack. because Rockstar knew they had a blockbuster even without adding features.)

          As for doing something 'interesting'... well hell - what PC game does anything particularly 'interesting' with a harddrive? It lets you save huge amounts of custom dat

          • Re:Hrm (Score:3, Interesting)

            by SuiteSisterMary ( 123932 )

            I loves the hard drive. I noticed that the first time I played Ninja Gaiden, it sat at the 'loading' screen for the very first level, for quite a while. Then, every time after, five seconds, max.

            I suspect quite strongly it was caching a lot of crap onto the hard drive, that first time through. You could stick all of the character models, the main sound effects, the music, and the UI elements onto the hard drive, streaming only levels and seldome used textures off of the DVD, for quite a speed boost.

        • Re:Hrm (Score:4, Informative)

          by CaptMonkeyDLuffy ( 623905 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2004 @09:52AM (#8509603)
          A hard drive has been present for ages in computer gaming, and it doesn't bring about many 'innovations.' The ability to add content/patch the application post-release(generally a good ability, but then again the ability to patch applications is arguably part of the reason PC games have a penchant for shipping buggy), the ability to have huge save game states, the ability to use hard disk as swap space that is faster than removable media, but not at RAM speed. That's really all the hard disk brings to the table.

          Also, there's an even more cynical take on the hard drive. It wasn't there for any form of innovation at all, but is there because Microsoft was trying to build a console to leverage the existing computer game industry to build a game library of shovelware ports of PC games.

          As far as the expense of the hard drive, there is also the failure rate of hard drives to take into account...

          • That's really all the hard disk brings to the table.

            I would have loved to have seen what they could have done at Nintendo with Animal Crossing if they had a hard drive. As it is, it's an amazingly fun game. With more room, the city could have been much bigger and there could have been a lot more customizable content. As it was, they were dealing with the Nintendo Memory Card 57 which I think was 8Mb (~1/2 MB).

    • I don't think Microsoft is stupid. You might dislike them, but I don't think you could say they make a lot of stupid mistakes. They know that the hard-drive performed an important function on the first Xbox.

      I am guessing that if they do not include a hard-drive, they will replace it with something that provides the same functionality- or better.

      The first Xbox went way beyond what I expected them to do, especially for a first console. Now that they are moving into the second version, they will refine th
    • Well, just nice to see Sony still has a real lead in the industry, not only in sales but also in deciding what other hardware will look like.

      This is something I've said before several times: Don't watch Microsoft, don't watch Nintendo. Watch Sony, and you'll see who'll come out on top. Console wars aren't won by superior games or superior hardware, but by the mistakes of the front runner in the last round.

      Back before I played video games, I knew a few people who had Intellivisions and C64s and such

  • Technology U-Turn from X-Box (Score:5, Interesting)

    by chilled ( 542681 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2004 @07:17AM (#8508513)
    I think it's quite funny that the X-Box was sold to developers as effectively a standard PC, enabling quicker and easier development, yet they're going for a new architecture. You could interpret it as a admission that M$ got the X-Box wrong.
    And unveiling something that doesn't exist seems a bit strange too. Here's hoping they fail spectacularly.
    • Well .. they saw the Gamecube outsell (world wide) the Xbox, even though a lot of Xboxes only are sold since they can be modified so easily. Microsoft then apparently made the decision to copy whatever Nintendo does for the next generation ... (IBM CPU, ATI graphics etc .. )

      I am half serious, yes :)

    • Re:Technology U-Turn from X-Box (Score:5, Interesting)

      by *weasel ( 174362 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2004 @09:44AM (#8509527)
      Microsoft got developers on board because doing an XBox port was easy, and their tools are top-shelf (particularly given the PS2s SDK clusterfark). Microsoft already has had PPC compilers in their existing tools (for decades now) - so none of that changes in the least.

      The only thing about the neXtBox that might be different is the omission of the harddrive. Yet, if you consider the current crop of games, most developers are only using it to store save games and downloadable content. Things a large chunk of flash memory (their proposed alternative) can do easily.

      So where's the big change? The ability to use the HD for swap space is gone (largely unused anway) and custom soundtracks are uncertain. That's it.

      What they got wrong in the XBox is including a part that doesn't fall in price with economies of scale. Harddrives get bigger - not cheaper. A move to flash memory will give them most of the functionality while still having a part that follows economies of scale. (flash memory gets cheaper and larger)

      So long as Sony doesn't push PVR functionality, the HD won't be a necessary part, and MS will have made the right move on all counts. (flash memory has a comparatively low rewrite lifespan. It'd be no good for swap space or constant use for large files. Eg: bad for PVR.)

      The only thematic shift is that instead of being standard PC hardware, the neXtBox is shaping up to be more like standard Mac hardware.

      And they're not showing nonexistant hardware. The part that remains in doubt is if they'll be announcing 'what's under the hood'. They'll be showing a live, functioning unit, but they're not sure if announcing the specs this early will be unnecessarily tipping their hand to Sony.

      The only reason I hope the neXtBox isn't a spectacular failure, is because at this point Microsoft is the manufacturer who's pushing the envelope. Internet gaming (the way it should be) is in the living room, Sony is test-marketing console/PVR convergence devices in Japan, and Nintendo is correctly decades-old policy cockups (bad 3rd party dev relations, high royalties, 'content' image, etc).

      Microsoft has brought serious competition to the console, and this competition is good for gamers.
      • Since Sony's push for PVR is the PSX, which is still a PS2, I don't think they have to worry much. Microsoft also plans on pushing a $100 cable kit to make MS Windows XP Media Center PC's into PVR's by using the Xbox2's connections. Whether this is just baldurdash is anyone's guess.
        • If the PSX is insanely popular (which by the press releases, it seems to have been) -- Sony may opt to ship a ps3/PVR combo out of the gate.

          PVR is a technology that many feel is just waiting to burst into consumer's living rooms the way DVD did in 2000.

          Adding that dual functionality may be something that convinces people it's acceptable to pay a premium for. People might pay $350 or $375 (covering the HD costs) for a console + PVR the same way DVD playback convinced people to pay $300 for a gaming console
          • "Given that the neXtBox may ship with a rewriteable blue laser optical drive -- they would be able to clean up in the PVR arena."

            I highly doubt this. The expense of such a drive would make the neXtBox too costly to produce in mass quantities and still deliver at a reasonable price point. I would expect such drives to arrive on the PC starting at $400.
    • Here's hoping they fail spectacularly

      Ahh! Slashdot at it's best. A refuge for those poor lost souls whose self-esteem and identity are affirmed and defined by the failure or success of a particular technology.

      Exactly how would the failure of Xbox2 benefit you? Thousands of readers are curious.
    • Actually, the X-Box was more of a child born in order to jump into the market faster. Microsoft realized that they were 2 years late in the game and need to trim that edge down so they would end up third in the market.

      The Microsoft strategy was two-fold. Close the gap on the market and try to make a product that would outperform the competition. The hard-drive was a double-edged sword. It made the console unique, but because of the PC-like architecture, it also gained the moniker "hack-box".

      This strateg

  • Sony's Catch-22 (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Dark Paladin ( 116525 ) * <jhummel&johnhummel,net> on Tuesday March 09, 2004 @08:03AM (#8508688) Homepage
    Sony now has an interesting decision to make: reveal how the PS3 is going to act and look like with enough time to let developers make new games for it, or wait just long enough for Microsoft to shoot itself in the foot.

    Sony's probably got most of the specs nailed down already, and their just going over the nit-pick details. If they're clever, they'll just make the system very modular with a range of products:

    Regular PS3: No hard drive or ethernet/modem port, costs $299. Add in hard drive/ethernet is $99.

    PS3/PSX: Basically the PSX now being sold in Japan, only with PS3 components. Tivo, satellite reciever, built in DVD burner, oh, yeah, and plays PS3 games, costs $700-900.

    With this, they can delay right up until the last second what it's going to do and keep MS looking like an also-ran. Personally, I do find it disturbing that rather than blazing their own trail with what could be a great set of hardware (G5-ish chip and all), MS is just sitting back and "Well, whatever RAM they have, we'll have more! Our penis will be bigger!" approach.

    Might please the fanboys, but personally, it just makes me want to give the Xbox 2 a long wait until I decide to get one, especially if it doesn't offer backwards compatibility. I have 3 consoles already - I don't need 4.
    • Sony now has an interesting decision to make: reveal how the PS3 is going to act and look like with enough time to let developers make new games for it, or wait just long enough for Microsoft to shoot itself in the foot.

      Sony's probably got most of the specs nailed down already, and their just going over the nit-pick details. If they're clever, they'll just make the system very modular with a range of products:

      Or, they'll screw over Microsoft by "leaking" specs like a DVD burner, built-in TiVo, 180 GB H

    • Re:Sony's Catch-22 (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Tarindel ( 107177 )
      The biggest problem with not including a standard ethernet port or hard drive is that games that want to reach the largest target audience on the console will not be able to take advantage of these features. That in turn gives players less of an incentive to purchase them, which in turn means even less software that will use them. It's a self-reinforcing cycle.

      My guess is that Sony would like to see MMORPGs become more popular than they currently are, given that they not only bring in money for the conso
  • Is anyone thinking the same thing?

    We've seen pictures of the phantom, we know it's the most powerful thing out there, but we've yet to see any software.

    We're about to see the XBOX2's software, which is arguably (according to MS) the best in the world EVAR!!!!!, but will not see any hardware.

    Maybe the two companies should join together and actually make a full console?

    Or maybe I should go back to work and quit trying so hard at humor.

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