Playstation 3 Already Won the Next Gen Battle? 511
damyan writes "The BBC are running an article that claims that the Playstation 3 has already won the next-gen battle, since 'The Informa Media Group predicts that Sony will sell more than 30 million PlayStation 3s in Europe by 2010. It puts Microsoft in second place with 10 million sales and Nintendo trailing in third with five million.' If only everyone could see that well into the future."
But will it run Linux (Score:4, Interesting)
Given the advances in NUMA architectures in the Linux kernel, and the Cell processor being designed for parallel processing, it actually begins to sound reasonable... I'm sure there'll be developers who hit the metal, but given how fast the thing is supposed to run, I think it's a viable option
Then of course, it'll *really* be a war - closed MS Xbox-2 versus PS3 running Linux
Simon
Re:But will it run Linux (Score:5, Insightful)
PS2Linux is outdated and apparently not all that worth the money you have to sink into the machine to use it.
Will XBox2 be the same way? No one knows...
Re:But will it run Linux (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:But will it run Linux (Score:4, Informative)
As for outdated, well it only runs kernel 2.2 but, frankly, who cares ? The "cool" bits are the vector units (which you have to code in assembly anyway) and the DMA engine.
I've posted about this before, but the PS2 is (when coded properly) a dataflow architecture. It has massive internal bandwidth, relatively little RAM, and 3 processors (Mips R3K, 2 vector units). The idea is to pull data from the RAM into the processors using DMA, work on the data, and DMA it to the rendering engine. You can chain DMA transactions, and the combination of the flexible DMA, the 3 processors, and the bandwidth is what makes the PS2. None of this is in any way dependent on the Linux kernel - all it's really there for is to create a self-hosting environment...
Simon.
PS/2 doesn't benifit from Linux (Score:4, Interesting)
In practice, the barrier to development is HIGH. There are no high level libraries, and the amount you have to learn about the box to do anything with it is far to high to get anything useful done on a nights and weekends basis.
You buy the kit, it's neat to have RedHat 5.x, it can really run X Windows and Emacs and everything (though kinda slow).
But when you try to build anything you just hit a wall. The documenation is poor (probably better in Japanese) and confusing. The build process is complex, since there are custom languages for the two vector units (which are NOT identical and interchangable), and the main processor is not fast enough to do much real time work by itself.
The video and audio outputs are custom and can't be accessed though any standard mechanism (like OpenGL).
After spending about a month of spare time, digging through docs, reading things online and generally fiddling with pieces until they seem to work, you manage to add 1 and 1 on a vector processor, then get the result back and display it on the console. And you're proud. If you do keep goingand build a real game you can only distribute it to other people that have bought development kits, unless you get a real licensing deal with Sony. That means big money, big business, small/simple games need not apply and don't even consider trying to distribute for free.
What this high barrier to entry means is that the strengths of open source aren't really there, because very few programmers can really use the environment, and few others can even read the code that first set wrote. There isn't much sharing, and not much that's fun to play comes out of it.
Re:But will it run Linux (Score:5, Informative)
Re:But will it run Linux (Score:3, Informative)
I think the difference is that modding an x-box to be developed on is way cheaper than modding a PS2 to be developed on. Also, it's easier to develop for the XBox by a fair sight; it can be developed for with modern tools, and there are easily-found leaked SDKs that integrate closely with strong IDEs, whereas Sony's libraries are under control, they expect you to develop in GCC, and the hardware in the PS2 is famous for scaring some est
Re:But will it run Linux (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:But will it run Linux (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:But will it run Linux (Score:5, Funny)
So you don't need to actually fight battles anymore, just be predicted to win and you are declared as having "Already Won" ?
I know what my next job will be...
Re:But will it run Linux (Score:3, Funny)
PS4 vs. Xbox3 vs. N6? Sony wins again!
Re:But will it run Linux (Score:3, Funny)
Re:But will it run Linux (Score:3, Insightful)
Personally the XBox in comparison to PS2 is much better, the graphics are better, it loads quicker, and XBox live is great. PS2 has more games, but that is to be expected, Microsoft is still learning to make console games. I don't think PS3 will be such a big hit as they say.
Re:But will it run Linux (Score:4, Insightful)
I love how you just say things like technically the worst. How was WinWord TECHNICALLY the worst,also Windows wasn't competing with MacOS you dolt, Mac wouldn't sell it's OS, they were in different markets, one company selling computers one company selling software.
VHS vs. Betamax, had a lot to do (in 1976) to VHS having a 2 hour recording time vs. the betamax recording time of one hour, plus a year later you could get 4 hours of data on a VHS tape. Considering that meant movies couldn't fit on one Betamax, VHS had a huge advantage there. Plus the visual quality between the two, didn't mean shit to the people at home who couldn't afford a TV that would show the quality difference anyhow.
So, think, before speaking.
Predictions... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Predictions... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Predictions... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Predictions... (Score:5, Insightful)
Yet the price of the game is still the same if not higher.
Re:Predictions... (Score:5, Insightful)
The argument you make also applies to cassettes and VHS tapes. The CDs and DVDs are much cheaper to make these days but is music and video cheeper on the newer media?
Re:Predictions... (Score:3, Informative)
Posting on Slashdot should require at least one business course and an ounce of common sense. Good Christ.
Re:Predictions... (Score:3, Interesting)
But, adjusting for inflation, the prices have dropped significantly lower than the change in media cost. Additionally, the production cost of games has increased significantly in that timeframe. Usually if a price (with no adjustments for inflation or anything else) doesn't change for 2
Re:Predictions... (Score:3, Insightful)
That's partly because game *production* costs are increasing.
It is a lot more expensive to produce a modern 3D game than it was to make an SNES title, which is why Nintendo can get away with selling Metroid Zero Mission (which could pretty much have been done on the SNES) for $30 on release day, but a new PS2 or Xbox game is $50.
Re:Predictions... (Score:3, Insightful)
Consider also that the amount of data packed on a CD or DVD easily dwarfs what can be economically put onto a cart. That's why those same expensive N64 games generally lacked FMV/prerendered CG sequences and lengthy sound samples (such as speech). So while the overall cost of games has
Re:Predictions... (Score:2)
Re:Predictions... (Score:5, Funny)
Anyway, I've never owned a console before but I plan on getting a playstation 3. Why? Because the specs for PS3 are fucking ridiculous!! There's gonna be like digital naked-chicks and fucking explosions coming out of my Holographic HDTV set when I hook this bad boy up in 2006.
Re:Predictions... (Score:4, Interesting)
You can't win the battle (Score:5, Insightful)
I can predict anything. Doesn't make it true.
yes, because we all know that companies (Score:5, Insightful)
Atari 5200 anyone? excellent graphics (for early 80s), awful controllers.
I agree (Score:2)
Without a hard drive, there's even less reason for me to buy the box from Redmond.
I wonder if Microsoft is going to actually start making a profit with the XBox division anytime soon. The XBox 2 does get a head start on the PS3. But I go back to the point: I will not buy an XBox 2.
Re:I agree (Score:5, Insightful)
Would an internal 4 Gig flash drive make everyone happy? Because that's not outside the realm of possibility yet.
Also, who predicts something as unpredictable as video game sales? This is a stupid thing to do. Maybe after we see some specs on the consoles in question. But, gamers are getting smarter and more tuned in to what makes a system good and for all we know Nintendo could release a system that simply blows the other 2 away 3-6 months after the other two are released.
All in all, I can't believe somebody like the BBC would run an article like this.
Re:I agree (Score:3, Insightful)
Sure, that's possible theoretically. But not if the goal of removing the hard disk to is reduce the cost of the system.
Re:I agree (Score:4, Interesting)
As others have pointed out, that probably isn't the goal, MS is probably trying to reduce the hackability of the console.
Your right that 4 gig of flash would be expensive right now, but look at how the price of flash has dropped over the last few years. Replacing a hard drive with flash may not be as wildly expensive as everyone thinks (think of the bulk deals that MS could get).
Re:I agree (Score:5, Funny)
Gollum, I didn't know they had XBoxes in Middle Earth?
Never mind, probaly worth -2 for poor joke.
It's amazing (Score:4, Funny)
Re:It's amazing (Score:5, Funny)
Now I'm vindicated! Proof they have a real Tardis!
how else are they predicting the future?
Just like... (Score:5, Funny)
*year to be determined.
Of Course (Score:5, Funny)
What are they basing that on? (Score:5, Interesting)
According to the report, the PS3 is expected to sell 32 million units in Europe by 2010, more than the combined sales of the Microsoft and Nintendo machines.
I mean, seriously, what are these so-called analysts basing that on? The article doesn't say.
Probably, the PS3 will do well, but it seems beyond premature to make up numbers like these without supporting them in any meaningful way.
Re:What are they basing that on? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:What are they basing that on? (Score:3, Interesting)
That's just the status quo. Currently, more PS2's than XBox + GC, so let's assume the same for the next generation. Not too big a leap. Whether it's right or not is another question.
Many a slip 'twixt cup and lip (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Many a slip 'twixt cup and lip (Score:4, Insightful)
Anyone with games for the PS2 is already going to have a PS2 that can play those PS2 games just fine. And traditionally, backwards compatibility is non-issue amongst successful consoles. The N64, SNES, and NES didn't feature it, nor did the Master System, Genesis, or Dreamcast. Sure, the GBA features backwards compatibility with the Gameboy, but the handheld market's not the same as the console market.
I'm not saying backwards compatibility is a non-issue, but be realistic: it's almost entirely an issue of not wanting to have an additional box sitting next to the TV. It's definitely a convenience for people with a large back library that like to scream with righteous indignation about needing an extra box to play a game, or people just getting into gaming who'd like to try an older game, but are either of those market segments large enough to cause sales to "plummet?"
Not a chance.
Recipe for sucess (Score:2, Interesting)
Analyst logic (Score:3, Insightful)
3 times as many game developers for Sony => 3 t
Re:Recipe for sucess (Score:4, Informative)
Granted, MSFT keeps the XDK under tight wraps, but it's no big secret that it's a very close relative of DirectX 7. And there's libraries of information on programming DX7 out there.
Link on same page (Score:5, Funny)
Playstation Fights Falling Sales [bbc.co.uk]. Granted, it's from July 2003, but still....
PlayStation is dying! No, no, wait. PlayStation will dominate!
No, no, wait....
And in other predictions (Score:5, Funny)
The Minnesota Vikings will almost win the Superbowl in 2010, but get nuked by a terrorist right before they clench the game.
Manchester United will become a has been team that leases space to danceline competitions to pay for stadium lights.
The New York Yankees won't actually have to play the World Series to win after their payroll exceeds 1 billion dollars to save on wasteful travel costs.
The NHL will fold to be replaced by the CHL and the AHL with the Stanley cup auctioned on Ebay.
Re:And in other predictions (Score:4, Insightful)
Stupid distorting media... (Score:2)
Leave it up to the BBC to leave out the italicized phrase in their zeal to "sex up" the story. I'm sure the Informa Media Group is very disappointed. Now people are going to get false impressions about how sure the Informa Media Group is about their pred
Thinnest... evidence... ever (Score:2, Informative)
Backwards Compatibility (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Backwards Compatibility (Score:3, Informative)
Think about the situation with the N64 and the Gamecube. When The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time was announced for the Gamecube, everybody just went nuts over it, and I don't know many people who didn't actually try to get it, even though it's a really slight update, and tell you what? I'm happy with it.
And I bet all backwards-compatibility whiners will be drooling hopelessly the very second they see a remake of
Re:Backwards Compatibility (Score:3, Funny)
Prince of Persia, and
What a load of bunk (Score:5, Insightful)
It's interesting they should say that...the Gamecube's games look consistently better than PS2 games in no small part due to the additional power the Gamecube has over the PS2, and the relative ease of developing games on the Gamecube. Then, the article goes on to say Nintendo emphasizes game quality over power, which they already have plenty of! If this isn't a ringing endorsement for Nintendo, I don't know what is.
Re:What a load of bunk (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:What a load of bunk (Score:5, Insightful)
Of course, Sonic will now be available for others, but not Mario, Luigi, and Friends.
IMHO, GC is targeted towards younger kids while PS and XBox seem to go for the 12-24 yr old crowd. *This* should have been the basis for their findings, *not* cpu power. Moreover, they seem to have ignored the slowly happening convergence issues where the peecee and set top box could still really be contenders.
Mark
Re:What a load of bunk (Score:3, Insightful)
Geometry processing is not all you need (Score:5, Informative)
Most PS2 games are EE-limited. The VUs are great for medium (eg. skinning) and low (eg. transform, clipping, lighting) level vertex processing but that's only a relatively small piece of the total work done by a modern game. They have so little integer and flow control support that you can't do much higher level work on them even if you wanted to deal with writing such things in dual-issue microcode.
Wow (Score:2)
I think they are makign the mistake of projecting the sales figures of the current console war on the one in the future.
The next X-Box may suck, especially with no hard drive (read me engineers, BAD IDEA) but it is hard to say what will emerge from the vapour and until that point it is best not to open your mouth and later prove yourself a fool.
My prognosis (Score:2)
That will never arrive ! (Score:2)
This just proves... (Score:5, Funny)
Yeah, but (Score:2, Insightful)
Sorry, I just wanted to indulge in random and useless speculation like the authors of the article.
I'm done now, so I guess I'll go play Zelda.
Microsoft (Score:2, Insightful)
Microsoft seems to have made decent inroads, doubling Ninendo's market share. I know they have the marketing bucks, but my question is why would anyone buy an xBox instead of a PS? PS has more games and better overall quality and reliability.
This is how I hear it from my nephew, the hardcore gamer anyway. I like to play games, b
Re:Microsoft (Score:3, Insightful)
Easy - or it was when I bought mine. Widescreen support. I only have a 16:9 TV. Every XBOX game that I have supports both the widescreen aspect ratio and 480p output. When I bought it, the PS2 offered neither. Made the decision easy, especially considering the "e
What did you say? (Score:3, Informative)
I don't see how 10 million units shipping is double 11 million units shipped. Even if you're talking about North America, it's about 5 million to 5 million units. There is no market where Microsoft has doubled Nintendo's market share. Not even close.
Re:Microsoft (Score:5, Insightful)
And we all know hardcore gamers wouldn't be fanboys for their platform. <rolleyes>
I don't have a console, but I was thinking about getting one a few months ago. I couldn't decide between XBox or PS2; each has its merits. I was going to decide based on who I would most likely share games with, but my peers are split XBox/PS2. I wound up deciding not to spend the money. But it's really hard to find objective opinions among the diehard brand fans.
"Win" (Score:5, Insightful)
Interesting times, I guess...
Nintendo (Score:5, Interesting)
And now, after the Squaresoft Enix merge Nintendo will hopefully get the Final Fantasy games where they belong; on a Nintendo Machine.
Lets all hope that Nintendo kicks some serius ass this time.
Only reason i bought an X-box was that is was able play DVDs and you could install Linux on it,
I never once purchased a game for that box.
And I never really liked the PS2 hardware, or any of the games.
Go Nintendo!
The console war isn't won yet (Score:2, Insightful)
Xbox Live! (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Xbox Live! (Score:3, Interesting)
Wondering about Xbox 2 (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm hoping that Nintendo makes the Gamecube 2 compatible with the Gamecube, but there's been no comment on that.
But the Xbox 2 is looking more and more like it will not be backwards compatible with the Xbox 1, and I'm thinking that might be a huge mistake on Microsoft's part.
It usually takes about 12 months for A list titles to appear on any new console. MS was at least smart enough to put Halo on its release titles, which was a good move, but after that it still took some time for another major "must have" exclusive title.
So if the Xbox 2 isn't backwards compatible, I have the feeling that it will be a harder sell. I have all three systems, and some Xbox games I haven't gotten around to yet (Ninja Gaiden is certain a hard-as-nails blast, though). But if I can't play those games on a new Xbox 2, I'll probably just wait 12 months or so until the price dies down.
If the other two systems (GC2 and PS3) are backwards, then it will be a simple pickup. Old system gets sold on eBay, and new system plays maybe 1 new game for it, and all my old games are still valid.
I don't mind have 3 consoles - but I think 4 is just too many, espeically when 2 of them are by the same manufacturer.
I know - "But in the past we didn't care - look at the SNES to N64, or N64 to Gamecube!". Yes, that's true - but we had only 2 consoles really on the market at a time. Now we have 3, and that actually makes a hell of a difference. And now that Sony has pretty much got us used to backwards compatibility, I think that most buyers (especially their parents who don't want to see $200 in old games unplayed by their children because they 'don't work on the new system") now expect that backwards compatibility.
I could be wrong - it's been known to happen. But that's my opinion.
In other news... (Score:5, Funny)
Dewey defeats Truman! [loc.gov]
backwards compatibility (Score:3, Insightful)
Europe is a very different market... (Score:5, Interesting)
This really isn't that far out a prediction, given that the current console battle was won by Playstation 2 despite that fact that it was (IMHO) the weakest of the three.
Basically I see Microsoft as being the one with something to lose. Nintendo is by all accounts quite happy to sell fewer than the rest of them but turn a tidy profit doing so, while putting out the high quality first-party games they've always done. Of course, the fact that they're still killing in the handheld market probably helps the bottom line...
IBM is the winner! (Score:5, Insightful)
Compatibility (Score:5, Insightful)
That sells me
Some of the technologies are not prime-time ready (Score:3, Interesting)
These technologies are still at their early years, and making a game with those features increases the difficulty of developing it to a completely new level, as if fragment shaders, 3d audio, physics, and AI wouldn't be enough of a headache. Some current games already started to include voice recognition and motion sensing features in some way, but talking about the videogame industry leaning itself to that I don't think so.
Regarding the Internet, it's indeed an incredible tool and makes wonders with some games, but contrary to what some people might think, I don't believe it's still profitable or even really reliable to do globally, Microsoft's approach to Xbox Live seems to be right, but they're still bleeding a lot of money, so I wouldn't expect the online component to be a reliable revenue stream anytime soon.
Think about it, even Sony with 70 million consoles out there is still skeptical an cautious about online gaming and Xbox Live suscribers don't even amount to 10% of MS' global installed base. Then Nintendo is still battling with MS for second place (the usual "we are, you're not" from both sides), even though they put online gaming as a very low priority.
That said, maybe when these consoles start reaching the end of their respective life cycles, these kind of technologies will be more mature and then we can start to think on having a strong shift towards new ways of interaction into the next decade.
If the current generation serves as an example, the remainder of the decade we'll still be getting remakes and rehashes of old games, and innovation will take a backseat to the ever-increasing economic pressure on the market.
Also, writing off Nintendo as the distant third place was also not very smart to do. Big N's policies may not be attractive to us gamers, but do remember this is still a business and Nintendo is the only company able to sustain a healthy profit every generation, and their current strategies with regards to pricing seem to signal a very important price point which only them have been able to attain. As with the iPod Mini, sometimes the price point is the single most important thing for success, and most of the time this market is not driven by cutting-edge technology.
Such a load of BS... (Score:5, Interesting)
It's looking more and more like Sony is going to do the all-in-one type box. Will they be able to maintain their current market share? What about backwards compatibility? (PS2 compatibility is expected). With the launch titles give enough bang for the buck to get a quick launch? (I actually say no. They're going to stall coming out of the gate).
Microsoft looks to be playing it safe, moving from the HD based system to a more unhackable flash-memory type system. What will this do to sales? As well, MS faces the same problem. What about launch games. They had Halo for the X-Box (Without Halo, the X-Box may have been another N-Gage...)
As for Nintendo..well..they're the wild card..arn't they? What the hell are they planning..everything to speak is in riddles and doublespeak.
My best guess, is that the DS technology is some sort of affordable touch-pad. And they'll use that in their next system, in the controllers.
At worst, you'd be able to see additional information, maps without switching screens. As well, doing basic inventory management, things such as that.
At best? If their next system had the horsepower to feed out a 3d signal to the controller. Imagine being able to look down at your controller, playing Zelda for example, and seeing an overhead view of all the action around you? Or checking out what is behind you in a FPS.
Something like that would be revolutionary if it caught on. Personally, I think that if it's affordable, it's a great idea.
BTW, same problem for Nintendo. They had a bad launch for the GC and that hurt them. They need to launch with some big games right out.
PS 3 Backwards Compatibility (Score:3, Interesting)
On the PS2, PSOne backwards compatibility was easy because the sound processor (I believe) was the same processor as the PSOne. However, since the PS3 plans to use a cluster of Cell processors for everything (the Cell processors which are completely different than either of the previous two processors), it seems like they would actually have to emulate the PS2 and PSOne. How well will this run?
Re:PS 3 Backwards Compatibility (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:PS 3 Backwards Compatibility (Score:3, Funny)
LOL ... even if they did, it'd still be smaller than the X-Box.
Re:PS 3 Backwards Compatibility (Score:5, Interesting)
Anyway, I can see Sony working right now in a "PS2 in a chip" for the PS3 - they have been revising the hardware for the PS2 to reduce the number of components with every new model, just as they did with the PS1, and I expect they eventually will get around to having most of the functionality of the Emotion Engine in a single, cheap chip. We can also expect a smaller, cuter and cheaper PSTwo after the PS3 is launched.
But now that I think about it... Since they are separate chips, will the PS3 be compatible with the PS1? I'd think so, but they would have to use two different chips into the PS3. I/O processor and matemathical co-processor? Or will they integrate the "PS1-in-a-chip" in the new mini-Emotion Engine?
winning, losing, and relativitism (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Nintendo... (Score:5, Insightful)
Nintendo's big problem is a series of bad business decisions they made back in the N64 generation, which caused a number of third party developers to jump to Playstation.
Re:Nintendo... (Score:3, Interesting)
This is simply untrue. Tell me how many games MS has ported from PC to the Xbox currently. It's not a large number. If you're thinking games like Counter Strike and Rainbow Six, those weren't made by MS. I know Halo was on Xbox first and its sequel is easily one of the most anticipated games
Re:Nintendo... (Score:5, Insightful)
You're arguing the opposite point, and supporting what he said by using Halo as an example.
It's actually easier to prove that MS is not porting games from the XBox to the PC than to prove that games are not coming from the PC to the XBox (note in the latter I didn't state MS). MS has, in fact, released very few of their XBox titles on the PC, especially if you look at recent titles like Crimson Skies High Road to Revenge, the Project Gotham Racing titles, and the XSN Sports line.
On the other hand, I'd have to say that every console is suffering from the cross-platform development that is now common, in part because of the development costs for a game, and in part because of the number of platforms out there. Each platform has it's must-have games, but the cross-platform games each suffer unique problems because they are rarely optimized for any platform.
Re:Nintendo... (Score:4, Informative)
While Nintendo has made many bad decisions, it was in no means restricted to the N64 generation.
Before PlayStation, Nintendo (in North America) was king, and they told developers what they could and couldn't do. You want religious references? Not in America! Gory, bloody games? Tone it down, or you want have access to our machine! You say you would like Nintendo to have an optical drive? Come on, you can do it better with a cartridge!
Granted, they had good reasons for many of these decisions, but you can see from a Developers perspective how this can get tiring, when you can do almost whatever you want on this new PlayStation-thingy! The customer followed the developers, because we all know its the games that make the system.
How about another example? On the release of the GameCube, there was only one official Memory Card, with 59 'blocks' of memory. So these sports games (read: easy money) games come along with their stats and seasons modes, requiring upwards of 100 blocks! So what now, you have to buy a 3rd-party one? Or wait a year after the console's release to buy the 251-block card for only 25% more money? Someone from NOA mentioned that the memory card situation was a major factor driving people away from the GameCube.
However, not everyone (Nintendo included) sees this all as bad decisions. Nintendo now has quite a reputation built up as being easy to use, friendly enough so that anyone in the family can play, and with a high quality level, as well as a low price. Bring this up in an electronics showcase, and this seems like a bad business decision. But any toymaker would kill for the reputation and brand loyalty Nintendo still has.
However, things could change again just as easily for Nintendo, for the better or for the worse.
Re:Nintendo... (Score:3, Interesting)
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I like the weird cartoonish eye candy in my games, not my OS (*cough* OSX *cough*)
Re:Nintendo... (Score:4, Interesting)
The XBox has the greatest visual capabilities, no doubt about it, and the PS2 has the largest market share. Nintendo's Gamecube has something else: the best game development kit. If you want to create good graphics on the PS2, you have to spend an enormous amount of time compared to the Gamecube. XBox is much better, but you STILL have a much easier ride with the Cube.
Since you can code something up faster for the Cube, you can also spend more time optimizing the code and can therefore offer brighter, more colourful graphics.
Re:Nintendo... (Score:5, Interesting)
Programmer: "Hey, I just managed to save a couple thousand cycles per frame with some clever inlining, loop unrolling and judicious use of PowerPC assembler."
Artist: "Great! I'll bump up the saturation on the 'graphics' by 7%"
Having spent 6 years now in the games industry, I can assure you it doesn't quite work this way.
Oh, and all the other stuff you said too is quite debatable.
Re:Nintendo... (Score:4)
I doubt it, at least. So far, from what I've seen, the XBox has lousy graphics. Knights of the Old Republic has terrible frame rates, and the visuals aren't all the great. Halo isn't bad, but other games haven't really surpassed Halo for quality. Compare that to Ratchet and Clank: Going Commando, which gets a solid 60fps on even the most detailed scenes.
The problem is the dev kit, and the design. Sony designed the PS2 for graphics, not for ease-of-development. The XBox is essentially a cheap PC, and is programmed like a cheap PC; the PS2 is a high-end graphics card (not PC-like, more SGI-like) with a rather wimpy general processor. The way you code for something like that is completely different than for a cheap PC.
Take a look at the success of the Sony method; as time went on, games for the Playstation got better and better as developers learned to use the power of the machine. Although the Dreamcast had better hardware, the Playstation kept up fairly well.
Nintendo seems to be the only one to get it completely right, with an easy-to-use dev kit coupled to a decent game platform, with a nice balance of CPU power and graphics capability. But, more importantly, their games are well-designed. Metroid, the various Mario Bros titles, Zelda, etc, all *play* well. The XBox suffers from too few good games, and the PS2 suffers from too many crappy games. (There are some really good ones there, but the market seems glutted with bad ones, and it's hard to tell the good from the bad on the shelf.)
Of course, most of that is my opinion. I could very well be wrong.
Re:Nintendo... (Score:5, Insightful)
My current work is leading the XBox port of a PS2 engine for a major upcoming title. The Game Cube port was canceled half way through our development.
The Game Cube does not, _by far_, have the best development kit. Its not as bad as for the PS2, but there is no productivity boost there at all. Quite the opposite. The Cube lacks memory and DVD space; has fewer controller buttons, big endian vs. little endian. Fitting the same game as for PS2 on the Cube is twice the work. The graphics chip and memory cache is quite capable, but thats about it. It is so lacking in installed based and hardware compared to XBox and PS2 that often it does not make financial sense to support it, unless you're Nintendo or an exclusive developer.
The PS2, I've heard from collegues, is like writing a graphics card driver from scratch. You have fine-grained low level control, but you pay for it in complexity and arcane assembly coding. Support and docs are poor.
The XBox has _the best_ development kit, support and documentation. Its better than D3D SDK on a PC. Using an NVidia GPU it can do the most complex texture blending operations. XBox signature look is shiny bump-mapped environment maps and (simple) stencil shadocws. However the PS2 has far more fill rate/bandwidth which clever artists can use to great effet with particle systems, multi-layer polys etc.
Most developers care about the installed base of a platform first, and the PS2 wins hands down.
Re:Nintendo... (Score:4, Insightful)
These are video games we're talking about not demo reels. Why is everyone so hung up on how games look and not how they play?
Re:Nintendo... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Nintendo... (Score:5, Interesting)
The xbox does have more processing power than the gamecube, but what is it worth? Would you rather have "game quality and innovation," or a few more polys and effects? What's the good of looking at slightly better graphics if the game isn't fun?
At any rate, regardless of technical details and opinions about the current generation of console hardware, I think we can all agree that it's pretty stupid to try and call a winner in the next generation of consoles. Predicting 2010? Give me a break.
Cartoon vs Realistic (Score:3, Interesting)
I'll gladly take the Nintendo style graphics over the recent PC, XBox, or PS2 graphics *any* day. The problem is, the latter are all focusing on making "realistic" looking games. First off, if you're aiming for realism, even the tiniest failure to do so breaks the suspension of disbelief and ruins the entire experience. Second, realism isn't all that interesting - if you want real, get off your ass and go outside.
The "anime" look most Nintendo games has is much more fri
Re:Nintendo... (Score:3, Insightful)
it's great that you can put 2 players on each kart. one can smack drivers as they pass and chuck items.
it makes for awesome multiplayer gaming. and is the single most played game in my home, compared to ALL the other consoles... yes I have an X box, it sat there so long unused that it's now a mythtv playback box in the bedroom.
I suggest you play mariokartGC a bit... it's the best racing game across ALL platforms hands down for fun and multiplayer.
Point about Nintendo... (Score:3, Insightful)
I think that the marketing of their games is going to be a bigger deal next time around.
After all, at this next E3 Nintendo said it will be showing the new console. That is an interesting statement from a company like Nintendo that is not that interested in change.
I believe the next console war will seriously be over on-line play. It has already started, and Nintendo now knows that, and it can't be so insane that it doesn't understand it.
Show a little respect. Nintendo can't purchase Viaco