On Gay Characters In Videogames 272
Thanks to Armchair Arcade for its feature discussing the portrayal of gay characters in videogames past and present. The article starts by pointing out: "In Troika Games' computer role playing game The Temple of Elemental Evil (2003)... the player is asked to rescue, and given the option to marry, an openly gay character", and ends by arguing: "Gay avatars are an inevitable development in the evolution of the videogame that will take place with or without this article. If we already see such possibilities opening up in even mainstream titles like The Temple of Elemental Evil, I doubt it will be long before even the idea of a fantasy role-playing game featuring only one white male avatar will seem a strange, misguided aspect of our distant past."
Let's not forget... (Score:5, Funny)
Trans... (Score:4, Funny)
Details (Score:2, Informative)
Total sequel confusion.
Re:Trans... (Score:2)
Same-Sex marriage allowed in The Sims 2 (Score:5, Interesting)
http://thesims2.ea.com/about_faq.php
Re:Same-Sex marriage allowed in The Sims 2 (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Same-Sex marriage allowed in The Sims 2 (Score:2)
I think the baby situation worked the same way, but I'm not sure. Not that that was very realistic anyway. I wish real life was like that. You have a relationship with a person, have sex all the time, and when somebody calls you on the phone and asks if you'd like to have a baby, you
Re:Same-Sex marriage allowed in The Sims 2 (Score:2, Insightful)
I can't wait for the pureitan side of america to find that out or govener scwarzenegger
700 hours of gameplay (Score:5, Funny)
Do they have to wander around the United States until they find a city offering marriage licenses? That sounds like a pretty extensive side-quest.
Re:700 hours of gameplay (Score:2)
It takes a queer to raise a child (Score:3, Interesting)
I am working on a couple of assumptions here, so the whole thing falls apart if they are incorrect [...] 2. [Heterosexual attraction] occurs to promote procreation of the species.
Not always. Some claim that the gay gene is recessive but pops up more often when a village needs more "parents" to stay at home and help the straight moms care for the little ones than "breadwinners" to go hunt for food. Therefore, having gay adults in the village may give the children a better chance of survival.
(Read More [cybercity.dk]
FPS more tolerant than the nation? (Score:5, Insightful)
I never thought I'd see the day that first person shooters would be more tolerant of social differences the the general U.S. population.
Re:FPS more tolerant than the nation? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:FPS more tolerant than the nation? (Score:5, Funny)
Will there be a constitutional amendment to ban gay videogames?
Won't somebody please think of the children?
Re:FPS more tolerant than the nation? (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't know if you were making a joke here, but I'm not sure why you'd be surprised by this. Videogames are created and played by (generally) younger people, who are going to be more progressively minded than the general population.
Also, videogames are often the place where people get to do things they'd normally wouldn't do in real life.
And the game in question is an RPG, not an FPS.
Re:FPS more tolerant than the nation? (Score:3, Interesting)
Yeah, that's true. I was too general in my original statement. I suspect that RPG players might be a little more tolerant. Most of my online gaming experience has been with MMORPGs, and while you do see overuse of "fag," "gay," etc, you are talking about a genre where the vast majority of female characters are played by males.
And there is a lot of flirting that
Re: (Score:2)
Re:FPS more tolerant than the nation? (Score:2, Interesting)
Your pop-psychology is obviously of limited depth. For instance, you equate crude behavior with s
Re:FPS more tolerant than the nation? (Score:2)
Re:FPS more tolerant than the nation? (Score:2)
Re:FPS more tolerant than the nation? (Score:2)
Re:FPS more tolerant than the nation? (Score:2)
Nope (Score:3, Insightful)
I think one important change is that there are now a lot of people out ther
Re:FPS more tolerant than the nation? (Score:2)
Re:FPS more tolerant than the nation? (Score:2)
Is tolerance really that big of problem these days? It's not so easy to generalize about 300 million people, is it? Not sure where you're from, but where I'm at now (both the real world and on the net) being gay or anything else isn't a big screaming deal. Heck,a close friend of mine underwent a gender transformation. Everybody around was quite supportive, even whe
Re:FPS more tolerant than the nation? (Score:2)
So yeah, I'd say FPS games are more tolerant than the general US Population.
Re:FPS more tolerant than the nation? (Score:2)
Well, a rocket launcher will gib you just the same no matter whether you're gay or straight.
Birdo in SMB2 (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Birdo in SMB2 (Score:5, Funny)
Guilty Gear XX - Bridget (Score:5, Funny)
Bridget probably sent more than one fanboy to therapy.
Well, it depends on your logic (Score:2)
Re:Birdo in SMB2 (Score:2)
Gamers are Awful (Score:4, Insightful)
"That's so GAY!" is heard almost every round of Counterstrike. "God, why does that fag have to keep cheating?" If you're a real gamer, you know what I'm talking about.
The worst part is that most of them think it's okay, because either a) They don't *really* mean Gay people, it's just a word, or b) they think gay people deserve it.
Its really a problem that needs to go away. It makes online gaming less fun, and it makes otherwise intelligent people act like assholes.
Re:Gamers are Awful (Score:4, Insightful)
That said, some of the people who talk like that undoubtedly are homophobic.
Re:Gamers are Awful (Score:5, Interesting)
That said, I do try not to use it that way myself, but I'm exposed to it constantly, and ever so rarely it slips out.
Re:Gamers are Awful (Score:2)
Re:Gamers are Awful (Score:4, Insightful)
I know people who do this in real life, and they're not all homophobic.
I agree. These days in the places I travel, "gay" has a much more fun, cheery flair to it, even when used to diss something, than I recall from school (13 years ago, Wales). Back then, people said "gay" as an insult and they meant as in queer, as in homosexual etc. All homosexual-related terms were universally used as insults. Bisexual was strangely a word nobody used for anything, and transgender was unheard of.
I'm pretty sure that if there were a gay person in the room, they wouldn't do it, because then they'd suddenly realize that it's insulting. But when among straight males, they figure "no one's going to get offended".
That's just the trouble. They do it when they don't realise 5% of the room (or whatever it is) are, in fact, gay or bisexual, because most non-straights are very quiet about it, because it isn't universally accepted as ok, so they end up insulting people unintentionally.
Imagine the guy at work whose parents have disowned him for being gay, who feels that life is harder than it should be because those who should care for him reject him, that it's better not to tell people at work, that he thanks god each day that the suicidal thoughts he had as a teenager didn't win, and he hasn't said anything to the folks in the room. Do those unintentional insults create a welcoming environment? Does it create an environment where he's likely to talk about it? Would those people even say the things they do, if they thought for a moment about how much they don't know about the people around, or even think they do know, because the people play along uncomfortably?
If people used "that's so female" to diss products and people regularly, would that be ok? Ignore the feminist backlash -- would it be ok in terms of its effect on how people treat one another away from the spaces where they say that? I don't think so.
Homosexuality is still far from general acceptance, yet it is good, because it does no harm and makes people happy. Homophobia still exists, and causes very much harm. That's why we still have to make a special effort to accept homosexuality, and reject homophobia, with our words, actions, and laws.
-- JamieRe:Gamers are Awful (Score:2)
Perhaps the misguided opossums know as gamers haven't even heard gay could mean anything else then merry/jolly?
Well, if you're going to play language police... (Score:4, Insightful)
Ignorance, maybe. Insensitivity, sure. But homophobia? Most people who use that word use it without thinking about it's meaning in relation to the current context. But if they were homophobic, they would be thinking about it's meaning, and purposely using it with the intention of intimidating gay people.
By branding ignorant or insensitive behavior as homophobic, you're guilty of making the same generalizations that truly homophobic make.
Re:Gamers are Awful (Score:2)
I'm a little uncomfortable with the use of the word "gay" to mean "dumb" or such, but in fact, some of the people who have used it as such - even cluelessly, without irony - are still tolerant, gay-friendly people who support things like gay marriage and the like. They're just a bit young and clueless about taste.
Re:Gamers are Awful (Score:2, Interesting)
As you say, many people think it's ok because they don't really mean homosexual. But considerin
Re:Gamers are Awful (Score:2)
--trb
Re:Gamers are Awful (Score:2)
You're wrong. I've met many people (IRL and online) who use the word and who are not homophobic. But since you don't care for what other people say, there's no point in talking to you, is there.
Re:Gamers are Awful (Score:2)
If you mistake an Army guy a Navy guy he might be insulted. Because he's not a Navy guy. He doesn't g
Re:Gamers are Awful (Score:5, Insightful)
For all those people who believe that words like "nigger" and "fag" aren't related to their original meaning, I invite you to come to my neighborhood and start calling my neighbors "niggers". I wager you won't walk out intact.
Re:Gamers are Awful (Score:5, Informative)
Do you realize that "faggot" used to refer to a bundle of sticks, or that "gay" used to be a synonym of "happy"?
Language changes all the time. Just because something became an insult because of homophobia doesn't mean that it will always be an insult because of homophobia. Even now, a significant number of people use the word as an insult just because it's accepted as an insult; sexual orientation doesn't enter into it. After all, how does it make sense to call, for instance, Star Wars Galaxies gay in the homophobic sense when SWG doesn't even have a sexuality?
For all those people who believe that words like "nigger" and "fag" aren't related to their original meaning, I invite you to come to my neighborhood and start calling my neighbors "niggers". I wager you won't walk out intact.
Because, as we all know, emotion not only overrides logic, it disproves it.
Rob
Re:Gamers are Awful (Score:3, Informative)
Do you realize that "faggot" used to refer to a bundle of sticks, or that "gay" used to be a synonym of "happy"?
Language changes all the time. Just because something became an insult because of homophobia doesn't mean that it will always be an insult because of homophobia. Even now, a significant number of people use the word as an insult just because it's accepted as an insult; sexual orientation doesn't enter into it. After all, how does it make sense to
Re:Gamers are Awful (Score:2)
And of course there are Mr. Brain's Faggots [mrbrainsfaggots.com].
Don't forget to check out the Faggot Family [mrbrainsfaggots.com] link...!
Re:Gamers are Awful (Score:2)
Hell, in England, a fag refers to a cigarette.
There's a joke about this in Good Omens, when the brit has the opportunity (vastly simplifying here) to ask an American soldier for a fag.
"What do you do with fags?" inquires the soldier. "Why, we burn them." "RIGHT ON!" says the soldier; he'd always heard these Brits were rather soft.
Re:Gamers are Awful (Score:2)
To associate those words with negative qualities is inherently homophobic. Just becasue it has been applied to things that have no defined sexuality does not mean that it's suddenly a neutral term.
Bigotry and hate are learned in lots of ways. If kids learn that gay means bad that prejudices them against anyone who is described as gay whether or not they have a "moral" reason behind it.
Re:Gamers are Awful (Score:3, Insightful)
I do understand language change, but i don't think you are qualified to explain when or how it happens. If you think "nigger" is a neutral term then you are utterly clueless.
You are confusing a permissive attitude towards a denigrating term with the neutrality of the term. I'm going to go out on a lim
Re:Gamers are Awful (Score:3, Insightful)
Here's a question: Why are you so defensive about this? I speak from direct experience with peop
Re:Gamers are Awful (Score:3, Insightful)
Honky? Cracker?
Oh, wait, those were never racially charged in the first place, because most white people don't explode when confronted with racial slurs. I guess they realize that the intentions are important, not the words used to express them.
Rob (Words, in and of themselves, don't have any fangs)
Baldur's Gate (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Baldur's Gate - Good Mods! (Score:2, Informative)
However, there are a few excellent mods for Baldur's Gate II that allow homosexual relationships. The first is Chloe: http://forums.fwstudios.net/index.php?showforum=11 [fwstudios.net], a female character who can develop a lesbian relationship either with the protagonist or another female character. The second is Solaufein, who is somewhat less picky (will romance anybody, either gender): http://www.weidu.org/main.html [weidu.org]. I have more experience with Chloe than with Sola, since you
Re:Baldur's Gate (Score:2)
A friend of mine told me he did same-sex romances in BG2 w/o mods. Started the game as a male character, but used the Girdle of Masculinity/Feminity, changing the character to a woman. The trick is that all the romance scripts in the game are based on what gender the character starts out
Where's the trolls (Score:5, Funny)
Players are already transgender... (Score:4, Funny)
Too early to tell (Score:3, Insightful)
Considering gamers still use the words 'fag', 'gay' and 'homo' in order to insult each other online, it'll be a while until homosexual characters are implemented more into games. Don't forget, video games mirror reality so until the public accepts homosexuality, gamers won't accept homosexuality.
On top of that, don't forget that video games have barely scratched the surface of heterosexual relationships anywhere near as far as the article's example goes. While most people point to BMX XXX, GTA3, GTA:VC, and DOA : Xtreme Volleyball as video games protraying or promoting heterosexuality, theres no hinting of any type of "relationship" between the characters. The most I've ever seenen any type of friendship between "just friends" is in linear RPGs (which isn't saying much since it is linear).
Re:Too early to tell (Score:3, Insightful)
It isn't just gamers, it is young men that are involved in healthy competition. Do you know how many times I was called honky, redneck, or cracker on a football field? Do you know how many times I fired back with an appropriate racial or socioeconomic slurs for my competition? You don't have time to craft a well formed retort to the jackass across the line from you, so you call him a c--ksucker, n---er, o
Re:Too early to tell (Score:3, Insightful)
Using some of the most repugnant slurs is considered an acceptable part of "healthy" competition? Just because it's common doesn't make it right. How about instead of calling him a fag, nigger, whatever, you just beat him at whatever you're doing? That gets the point across best of all.
(If you absolutely feel the need to humiliate your opponent, you can then say, in your sweetest voice, "You tried so hard there! Keep up th
Re:Too early to tell (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, they should be using "lame" or "retard" or "bastard".
Re:Too early to tell (Score:2)
Well, at least...it does if it took anybody else a second, too. Otherwise, it just tells me I'm a moron.
Re:Too early to tell (Score:2)
While true, I think (at least in the big city, not so much in rural areas) that most homosexuals get these innuendos and ride with them. I've played alongside several, okay two homosexuals in a bout of Halo and there was no issue with me or the other heteros or even themselves yelling "get off my Warthog, faggot!" The only time that there is a sensitivity is usually when somebody is just coming out of
Staring at Crystal Ball(s) (Score:3, Interesting)
Why? Instant publicity. Your game will get mentioned in the press if you give it a decent enough initial push. Gay influence has already saturated movies, television, and music. It hasn't really been a big issue in video games (this slight mention doesn't really make it a big issue). But, if you show that it's out there, you can get the mainstream press debating like mad. Imagine Bill O'Reilly and Rosie O'Donnell debating in a knife fight.
Those debates equal massive amounts of money, and gays will buy the game just to show support over the issue. A larger company might end up boycotted by some, but that would probably blow over.
Eventually, this whole thing will die down. But, if a game company were to play their cards right, it could equal massive amounts of money.
Re:Staring at Crystal Ball(s) (Score:2)
Next up should be Michael Moore vs. Ann Coulter...
Neverwinter Nights (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Neverwinter Nights (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Neverwinter Nights (Score:2)
Re:Neverwinter Nights (Score:2)
Re:Neverwinter Nights (Score:2, Interesting)
The Longest Journey (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:The Longest Journey (Score:2)
Eagle (Score:4, Interesting)
geeze... (Score:3, Interesting)
Right. Because heterosexual white males are, in fact, nothing more than a myth. And anyone saying otherwise is a homophobe or a terrorist. Puh-leeze.
One white male avatar will seem strange and misguided??! Oh, of course. White males aren't really people. They are just dragons waiting to eat all the REAL, CLAIRVOIANT PEOPLE. After all, "white" is a real race. Just like ALL "black" people are african-americans. I guess I'm German-American, or European-American.... No? Not born in Europe or even in Germany you say? But the "black" baby born in Cleveland is somehow African-American?? Why not Kenyan-American, or even Egyptian-American?
This story irritates me to no end. "Nickelodeon says it's cool to be gay!!" "MTV says all the white men are out to get me!" Why is this story big news?? Personally, I don't care what happens in your bedroom, and lets keep it that way, thank you very much. Also, what's so wrong about white males? I happen to be one, and don't think that I am contributing to the ruination of society by simply existing.
I know for a fact that I can't be "The Man". I can barely wake up before 11:00 AM, much less keep entire races of peoples from attaining financial independance. It's not me!!! (or most of us, for that matter)
Blah... I'm drunk and ranting... but you get my point. If you don't get it... I don't care. I'm gonna be sleeping until it's time for work.
As opposed to lack of complexity? (Score:2)
In my day, you were lucky if you even had an avatar independent of your own personality. Remember, a lot of games had only one avatar because it was easier that way, not because of any "misguided" notions of how a character should act.
Rob
I just have to wonder. (Score:2, Informative)
While a provocative story for mental midgets who think that the discussion of race, sex, and sexual preference are somehow enlightening. The true enlightenment comes when you realize how freaking boring that is because overall there are no differences.
This story has far less to do with video game avatars as it does to do with justifying homosexuality as a non-deviant lifestyle. How can anyone take writing like this seriously
Re:I just have to wonder. (Score:2)
Sorry, I read your sentence 4 times and still could not get your point. Isn't he ?
How about the converse (Score:2)
Ummmm....no. Look, diversity is great and all, but there's nothing wrong with "normal" either. "normal" is just a subset of "diverse." How about we try the converse of this statement instead:
"I doubt it will be long before a fantasy role-playing game featuring characters of multiple races, genders, and sexual orientations will not se
Re:How about the converse (Score:2)
The video game industry desperately needs death-dealing lesbian bird-women.
Poll (Score:2)
Sure archetypical stereotypes can be offensive, you may be unsure about your own sexuality, you may be expected to react appropriately (see vilify [reference.com]) in front of your peers, etc. But, in essence it should not be any more offensive than a republican, or a dog, or anything else that you are not.
Q.
Not to be insensitive... (Score:3, Interesting)
But in today's media frenzie about gay marriage you have to stop and ask yourself, why does 2% of the american populate have 98% of the media/political focus? Is this really SUCH a big issue nowadays?
Our forefathers meant free, as in free for rich white property owning men; we take it as meaning free for everybody.
I'm sure gays weren't intended in the civil rights acts, but we can take it as if they're included. It wasn't rights just for blacks, it was for everybody
Because the Christian church is fighting back (Score:2)
Look at it this way -- gay-bashing, lame as it is, is a whole hell of a lot less dangerous than the execution that Galileo faced if he didn't recant his idea of the Earth going around the Sun.
Re:Not to be insensitive... (Score:2)
I don't know ANYONE that is a gamer and gay...
*waves hand frantically*
*waves hand unenthusiastically*
*rolls eyes and walks off to play some Metroid Prime*
Great Greed (Score:2)
You could also choose to marry either the king or the queen.
Granted, the king criticizes you to some degree if you marry him, but it *is* a homosexual marriage taking place on a Nintendo system some years ago.
Since the story's already a troll-trap (Score:2)
And there are few *American* characters. There are lots of Japanese, but no *American* ones -- none of this blue and red hair anime business. What's wrong with apple pies can chocolate-chip cookies?
If only we had American, homosexual protagonists of color.
Morrowind (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Morrowind (Score:2, Interesting)
Crassius had different scripts to cater for female and male avatars. The developers made the assumption that the avatar is straight and made Crassius act lewd towards females and simple haughty to males (ie, charging them more money). As it happened, a coding glitch caused only the female-oriented script to
you see that in Japanese stuff a lot (Score:2)
Take for example Benimaru from SNK/Playmore King of Fighter's series, or Benten from Cyber City OEDO 808 (guy paints his nails and wears lipstick).
There's a difference (Score:2)
There's flaming people in games like Tingle, Luigi and Bridget and then there's homosexuals like Zangief, Rain or Hana.
A "special" pirate (Score:3, Funny)
A "special" pirate? C'mon, just say it: butt pirate.
Who cares? (Score:2)
As for "white male" avatars, most of the decent games I can think of that have been released within the past... oh, six or seven years... have a wide array of avatars to choose from -- both sexes, many complexions, many variations on facial features, and hell, half the time you don't even have to be HUMAN.
If this was a post instead of an Official
Why focus on a facet, not the whole? (Score:5, Insightful)
In the specific case of homosexuality, too many people focus upon the fact that they are gay to the exclusion of all else. Should the person be famous and be on a talkshow, that's the whole of their discussion - their homosexuality.
Now, consider somebody like Elton John. Queer as a three dollar bill, and has made no bones about it for years. Yet, that is only a small part of the man - yes, if he is on a talk show and the subject comes up he may discuss (briefly) his S.O., but then he moves on. He treats his relationship like any polite person should - it is his private life, and he trys to keep it such. I don't want to hear about Elton's bedroom, but then again, I really don't want to hear about Ahnold's bedroom, either.
Which brings me to the subject of "Gay characters in (games|movies|TV)" - in most such cases that is ALL the character is - gay. No other character development, just "Look at Fred. He's gay."
How about having a character who is, among other things, gay? Buffy the Vampire Slayer did pretty well with Willow - the fact she was gay was only a small facet of her character.
So why must the fact that some character in this video game is gay be the main facet of the game, or the character? Why not just have the fact come out (pun intended) during the normal course of the game, and make it just another part of the character?
Re:Why focus on a facet, not the whole? (Score:2)
John Candy|Heavy|dump truck
Britney Spears|Lascivious|ten dollar whore
George Bush|Stupid|pile of dirt
My point is, this doesn't just happen to gay people. The public latches onto anything that stands out and then rides the person for it. Gay bashing is just the only thing that happens to be politically incorrect in the list above. Once again, gays need to get over themselves.
--trb
Elite Force (Score:2)
Enuf of dat gay talk! (Score:2)
Ultima VII: The Black Gate and The Serpent Isle (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:If I had the mod points.... (Score:4, Insightful)
People who don't use computers for anything more than Word and AOL generally don't give a rat's ass about the DMCA, RIAA, MPAA, and SCO, but that doesn't make them right.
Re:ok..so.. (Score:4, Insightful)
Way to throw that red herring in there. Consensual relationships between consenting adults of the same species are in a very different category than bestiality. If you can't see that then you are blind.
why is homosexuality being 'rammed' down everyones throat over the past few years?
Why did those uppity black people ram their race down everyone's throats in the 60's?
Why are some members of our secular (separation of church and state?) society being denied their rights based on moral definitions that are purely religious?
Re:Well then. (Score:4, Insightful)
That is the next step.
Two consenting adults of the same specifies.
Insects can't consent - they're not a sentient species. I don't even know what "specifies" they are.
If you meant incest, then that's different. The argument you're trying to make is a logical bait-and-switch. We're not arguing that issue, but if it does come up as a significant issue, we can deal with it on its own. I haven't seen any incest-rights marches lately, so i'm not inclined to think of this as a pressing concern.
Black people wanted equal treatment to the whites in the 60's.
Homosexuals have equal treatment already. They can already marry some one of the opposite sex. What they want is SPECIAL TREATMENT.
Not precisely. You can look at it as an increase in rights for everyone (straight people can marry other same-sex straight people too) or you can look at it more realistically, as if your head were not encased in your rectum. Straights have the right to have their romantic relationships sanctioned by law, same-sex couples don't. There are thousands of rights associated with marriage - property rights, inheritance, guardianship, adoption - that are currently denied to same-sex couples. That's unequal treatment.
Comparing the homosexual quest for marriage to civilrights is horrible in logic and in sensitivy.
Maybe when the butt fucking fags get out and start getting bit by police dogs, killed with buckshot, hit by water cannons, and arrested then you can compare the two. Until then stfu.
Bullshit. Look up the arguments that were used to defend anti-miscegenation laws. They are the same ones that are used against gay marriage.
And as to violence, maybe you never heard about a little phenomenon called gay-bashing? Not so different from lynching. Police have been raiding gay clubs, beating up, locking up, and generally persecuting homosexuals for years. I think that qualifies as "until then." Until you get past your uninformed bigotry, stfu.