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Classic Games (Games) Entertainment Games

Miyamoto, Garfield, Church To Talk At Smithsonian 37

Posted by simoniker from the famous-people dept.
tripmaster writes "I'm lucky enough to have been asked to assemble and moderate a panel at the Smithsonian on May 16th; so I asked myself, who can I ask, given the cachet of an invite to speak at the Smithsonian (prior speakers: Berners-Lee, Cerf, Gates, Streep, Albright, etc.)? We ended up choosing Shigeru Miyamoto for console gaming, Richard Garfield for pen and paper games, Doug Church for PC games. /.-ers in the DC area (or on the East coast) should come see the panel, which will be a meaty 2-3 hours. I'm looking forward to asking questions and getting out of the way -- I think their cross-talk could be especially interesting. It's the weekend after the E3 Expo, which is probably the only time Miyamoto's in the States and available -- hopefully he'll also bring his E3 demos to show." Although a little pricey at $40, this is certainly a rare chance to see game design legends, particularly Miyamoto, in a roundtable.
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Miyamoto, Garfield, Church To Talk At Smithsonian More

Miyamoto, Garfield, Church To Talk At Smithsonian

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  • Garfield sez (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Garfield sez -"gimme lasagna!!!!"

    Church can't talk. The Smithsonian is a government institution, and there are Church-state separation laws.

    Miyamoto? Domo arigato. Mr. Miyamoto. You are the modren man!

  • Why Richard Garfield? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Pluvius ( 734915 ) <pluvius3NO@SPAMgmail.com> on Tuesday March 30, 2004 @11:38AM (#8715005) Journal
    MtG isn't really a PnP RPG at all. Couldn't you have invited Steve Jackson or one of the White Wolf people?

    The other two are fine, though you might have been better off going with a legend in PC gaming (Will Wright, Sid Meier) considering your choice of Miyamoto in the console field.

    Rob
    • Agreed - Meier or Wright would be better.

      Of course, Jeff Minter would be funnier. :D

    • You dolt. /. had a hand in this, they blackmailed people to include Garfield and Church, so that they could have an interesting headline.
    • No, but WOTC owns Dungeons & Dragons. Maybe you've heard of that?

      I'll grant you that it's not your typical lineup, and yes, the other two are pretty much going to be overshadowed by Miyamoto, but Garfield's a viable choice all the same.
      • Yeah, we dont want this to be a fluff panel, but we want to address an audience of non-games people (Smithsonian types) and those who are gamers (but more from a creative/GDC-like perspective). Garfield and MtG: if game designers have a canon, Mario 64 and MtG are the equivalent of the Iliad and the Aeneid, amazingly even more so than Go - at least from my unscientific observations.

    • Re:Why Richard Garfield? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by tripmaster ( 743725 ) on Tuesday March 30, 2004 @12:57PM (#8716152)
      Yah, but personally, I think Church's contributions -- first 1st person 2.5D game (Underworld before Wolfenstein), first true 3D first person game (System Shock, 13 months b4 Quake) and Thief (pioneered stealth game play) give him content cred (vs. sales cred). And SS and Thief helped pioneer 'emergent gameplay'. He's a great programmer and designer, and often Warren Spector gets (unwilling) cred for projects Doug has led... Hopefully I can persuade Sid to come and say hi. I may see if I can grab Will and someone else for another panel, if this one's well-received.
      • ...and Thief (pioneered stealth game play)

        Thief: The Dark Project November 30 1998
        Metal Gear Solid September 3 1998

        MGS predates Thief by almost two months! Well, obviously Thief it's not a ripoff, but MGS was in development for several years before, so the concept was already in the medium. MGS was the true pioneer and THE game that bringed the stealth game play to fame.

        Probably someone can point another game that predates MGS as a stealth game, but MGS was the one that made it matter.
        • MGS was the true pioneer

          Actually, that would be Metal Gear (1987), if not a game even earlier than that.

          Yeah, I did read the part where you said that MGS made it matter (which is questionable, but I'm not going to argue the point), but it is kind of funny that a game in the same series predates it.

          Rob
          • Good Point. I played the NES games, but didn't liked them; I guess that my expectations were too high.

            And MGS was the game that made stealth popular; remember how Splinter Cell is always compared to MGS.
      • Agreed about Church. Underworld was seminal, and I would be shocked if nobody ever made another sequel. That game was amazingly immersing...same goes for System Shock, I think.

        I'm quite excited just to see Miyamoto. Glad you posted that this event is happening; I live right up in Mt. Pleasant so I may have to come down for it.
    • I think Richard Garfield was the best person they could have got to represent non-electronic (board and card) games. Describing him as representing "pen and paper" games is just bizzare.
      • He came up with MtG. There was _nothing_ of the sort around back then. His innovation is most certainly comparable to those of the other two.
        • I suppose both of you are right. Unlike in the other two cases, though, coming up with a way to get people to spend hundreds of dollars on the same game just to be able to compete isn't that admirable of an innovation.

          But that's a whole other argument.

          Rob

          • Money imbalance in Magic (Score:3, Insightful)

            by Ondo ( 187980 )
            Unlike in the other two cases, though, coming up with a way to get people to spend hundreds of dollars on the same game just to be able to compete isn't that admirable of an innovation.

            He came up with a solution to that problem as well - ante, where the winner of each game gets a random card from the loser's deck. If people actually used it in Magic, it would be okay to lose 90% of the time to someone who spent 20 times as much on their deck, because you'd come out ahead on average.

            Perhaps he should ha

    • MtG isn't really a PnP RPG at all. Couldn't you have invited Steve Jackson or one of the White Wolf people?

      As another reply observed, there's a lot more to tabletop gaming than roleplaying games. I hung out with Richard Garfield sporadically for most of 1994 while I worked freelance with Wizards of the Coast in Seattle. I can testify to Richard's deep love and comprehensive knowledge of board and card games. Just as important for this panel, Richard can analyze and articulate what makes games work. He's

  • The Smithsonian ticket system is about to be Slashdotted.

  • price... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by reluctantengineer ( 557965 ) on Tuesday March 30, 2004 @11:59AM (#8715265)
    I'd like to be there, but at $40 I'd rather buy a video game than listen to people talk about them.

    • Re:price... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by L7_ ( 645377 ) on Tuesday March 30, 2004 @12:19PM (#8715588)
      Some people like to discuss game design, criticize and point out flaws in current games and discuss the artwork of said games on web forums (like this one), in IRC or even IRL moreso than they actually like to play the games themselves.

      So for $40, if they can post on slashdot or wherever saying that "when I saw Miyamoto talk about that, he said etc etc" then $40 is small potatoes.

      • Re:price... (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Lewisham ( 239493 ) on Tuesday March 30, 2004 @01:41PM (#8716815)
        About 25 quid (by my very quick reckoning) is peanuts to watch Miyamoto's translator talk about games :) The decomposition of games is fun, and is important to people who just want to buy games. If you understand what you enjoy, you can see why you preferred Unreal Tournament over Quake III (I know I did), when, to all intents and purposes, they are the same game.

        Miyamoto is a games genius not through divine intervention but through a unique understanding of what makes games great. Although actually expressing his views is very difficult, it is definitely worth the money to see him. I wish I could be there, and hear exactly what he has to say. I've only ever heard snippits of his ideas, but he once said that the way games control is one of the most important aspects. Prince of Persia was an astonishing game built solely on that aspect, that could probably have been a lot longer coming had it not been for Super Mario 64. That game was so groundbreaking because of control in a 3D environment, not because of the 3D itself. The thinking needed to design such a system is not easy, and the industry is better off with visionaries like him.

        I once went to a roundtable of an American female games journalist, the head of Rockstar in the UK, Dene Carter (of Fable fame), Miles Jacobson (of Championship Manager fame) and David Brabham (I have absolutely no intention of filling you in if you don't know ;) ). Games encompass so much, marketing, psychology, art, that listening to these people's differing views was quite eye-opening.

        Of note: The American female journalist was discussing how empowering Lara Croft was as a female superhero, and throwing up explanations as to why males could identify her. Dene Carter was sat out of peripheral vision, making large breast gesticulations.

        Fair point, well made.

        And hey, if you don't like watching people speaking about games, go and buy the latest tat from EA. There isn't much innovation to deconstruct there ;)

  • Moderator Bernard Yee has managed product development of computer games in Asia and the United States, most notably at Sony Online Entertainment, developers and publishers of EverQuest and Star Wars Galaxies.

    Let's fix the 10 minute wait at the starports before worrying about a seminar, mmmkay? SWG players know what I mean.

    (just teasing - good games, good panel)

  • Any chance you would webcast this, or maybe record it and upload it? I'd love to watch it. And I'm positive other people would (even if just for research). Let me know so I know how to pay :)

  • No love for Miyamoto (Score:5, Insightful)

    by An'Desha Danin ( 666568 ) on Tuesday March 30, 2004 @01:33PM (#8716710) Homepage
    From the article:
    Doug Church, chief technology director, Eidos North America, is the game designer of Ultima Underworld (I & II), System Shock, and Thief: The Dark Project, three games in the top 20 of PC Gamers' recent list.
    ...
    Shigeru Miyamoto, senior managing director, Entertainment Analysis and Development Division, Nintendo Co., Ltd., Kyoto, Japan, is the inventor of     Donkey Kong.
    ... They give Doug Church credit for three of his biggest projects and all they can up with for freaking Shigeru Miyamoto is "he made Donkey Kong"? Where's the love?
    • Miyamoto-sama will get much props from me directly, as opposed to an edited bio. :-D

      • Re:No love for Miyamoto (Score:4, Interesting)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 30, 2004 @06:41PM (#8720314)
        Seeing as how you're going to be moderating this thing, here's a friendly tip.

        Please DON'T refer to Miyamoto-san directly as "Miyamoto-sama." It is far too reverential, and would be sure to cause him a little bit of embarrassment (which is a definite no-no for Japanese guests of honor, even in a purely Japanese setting).

        Some people in the industry call him "Miyamoto-sensei," because he is considered by these people a master from whom they take direct inspiration. But these industry people are typically game designers, not journalists or anyone else outside of actual game development.

        In all cases, "Miyamoto-san" is very appropriate, as well as respectful. You're probably aware of these as well, but other terms to avoid are "Shigeru," "Shigeru-san," "Shigga Man," and perhaps even the more elaborate "Snoop Shiggy Shigg."

        And while I'm at it, "MIYAMOTO Shigeru-san," in the full, is probably the best way to introduce him at first, but it would be perfectly appropriate to just call him "Mr. Shigeru Miyamoto."

        Can't wait to read or hear what he has to say! Here's hoping that it's as fun for you being a part of the discussion.
    • "They give Doug Church credit for three of his biggest projects and all they can up with for freaking Shigeru Miyamoto is "he made Donkey Kong"? Where's the love?"

      If you don't already know what Miyamoto is famous for odds are you won't recognize any of his other accomplishments.
  • Wow...everything's happening in May - E3, a FF concert, and now this...as a huge videogame fan and an aspiring game dude (as unreasonable as it is, I still hope to work on a console - my own console - by 2010) I wish I could get to all this stuff, but I'm stuck in Minnesota. Woo-hoo. Next year I know I will go to E3, even if I have to hitchhike there ^_^ but May 12 is shaping up to be "Gaming Week," and for me, "Gaming Week you'll always feel bad you missed." v_v...
  • Since I paid $40, can I record the event with my video/audio recorder? Or does Smithsonian have a policy against such?

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