On The State Of Handheld Videogaming

Thanks to GCAdvanced.com for its mammoth 30+ page article interviewing developers and journalists about the state of the handheld videogame industry. Highlights include Karthik Bala of Vicarious Visions on why wireless matters for handhelds ("We've done plenty of multiplayer game modes for our GBA games, but the need for a link cable really limits the number of players who will play them. Our first N-Gage title supports Bluetooth multiplayer and we'll also be supporting the upcoming GBA wireless adapter in [an] upcoming game"), and Steven Kent's predictions for handheld market share by the end of 2005: "My guess [in descending order]: GBA, DS, PSP, N-Gage QD, Zodiac."

Speculating on the DS..

[bludstone]

..is dumb, as we have nothing to base the speculation on other then nintendo's history.

If you are going by that, it should be the "next big thing."

Frankly, if nintendo's next handheld doesnt do 3d, its going to get smacked by the PSP.

Re:Speculating on the DS..

[Gr33nNight]

Supposely Nintendo has Mario 64 running on the DS to show that 3D can be done. In a few weeks, come E3, we shall know.

Re:Speculating on the DS..

[Yorrike]

The N-Gage does 3D, and look how many that sold.

The fact of the matter is that 3D doesn't translate easily to the small dimensions of handheld units. The screen size mixed with the limitations of battery life, portable computational power and reasonalbe price point make 3D handheld gaming a prospect best fitting for future generations.

After all, the PSP is going to cost several hundred dollars, which going by current speculation, could nab you a GBA, DS(or GC) and a game or two by the time it comes out. I know what I'd prefer.

Re:Speculating on the DS..

[bludstone]

The N-Gage is a poorly designed taco.. thing. Seriously, they arnt a competitor at this point, and the majority of gamers are ignoring it. Not a good example.

3D _HAS NOT YET_ translated easily to small dimensions. I imagine the psp will have games that fix this problem. This is more of a matter of game design then screen size.

PSP will cost several hundred dollars when it is first released. But wait till that pricedrop to 150$, and people will start gobbling it up.

Again, I dont feel that speculation is wo

Re:Speculating on the DS..

[superpulpsicle]

People are actually mocking PSP with the failures of N-Gage. That's like saying Sega Saturn failed for a 32-bit console, so will playstation.

PSP WILL cause several hundred dollars. But don't forget gameboy, black and white handheld, debuted at $100 if I am correct. There were a cazillion debates over its pricing at the time, cause a colored system like SNES sold for $70 by then.

Re:Speculating on the DS..

[GTRacer]

After all, the PSP is going to cost several hundred dollars...

Per the latest EGM (I think it was them, EGM or OPM - whatever) the PSP will be $150 without the wireless cart, and 50 bucks adds it. Which I kinda dig, because I don't expect to do a lot of wireless gameing.

GTRacer
- I need friends with money to spend on gaming

Re:Speculating on the DS..

[stonecypher]

Which I kinda dig, because I don't expect to do a lot of wireless gameing.

You will. Soon.

The importance of portables with uniform wi-fi cannot be underestimated. The face of gaming is about to change. Go back to the AGB discussions; I was insisting back then, and I'm insisting now.

The wireless as an option is a little worrying to me. Admittedly I don't read trade mags; still, this is the first I've heard of it. I can only hope EGM is wrong. That'll hinder wireless penetration, which in turn will h

PSP price

[News for nerds]

doesn't matter, when it has somewhat more advanced feature set than current PS2, though its screen size is surely smaller (but still larger than that of GBA). Do you complain against the fact that laptop PC is much more expensive than desktop PC?

Re:Speculating on the DS..

[stonecypher]

The fact of the matter is that 3D doesn't translate easily to the small dimensions of handheld units.

Actually, a good number of AGB games use 3d, and it doesn't even have hardware 3d support. Most of the early uses of 3d were on lower-resolution monitors than the AGB's, or at least output by lower resolution video cards. Many perfectly good uses of 3d use screen fragments which on typical screens are the same size as but lower res than the AGB's. 3D is common on the PocketPC platform, and is generally

Re:Speculating on the DS..

[Anonymous Coward]

Frankly, if nintendo's next handheld doesnt do 3d, its going to get smacked by the PSP.

Isn't that speculating? :)

Re:Speculating on the DS..

[bludstone]

Indeed it is. Good zing! :)

Re:Speculating on the DS..

[Slashdot Insider]

If the alledgedly leaked specs are to be believed, then the DS is capable of doing 120,000 polys a second, which amounts to 4,000 per second--roughly equal to a Playstation.

Re:Speculating on the DS..

[stonecypher]

..is dumb, as we have nothing to base the speculation on other then nintendo's history.

Uh, just because you don't knwo about it doesn't mean it's not out there. We know its CPUs, its RAM sizes, its screen types and dimensions, its connectivity, its cart type, a fair amount about its graphics hardware, and a variety of miscellany.

Frankly, if nintendo's next handheld doesnt do 3d, its going to get smacked by the PSP.

Luckily, we've known whether it'll be a 3D machine for almost eight months now.

A few points

[Peter Cooper]

but the need for a link cable really limits the number of players who will play them.

It's not just the need for a cable, but the price of the cable when you go and look for one. It is not uncommon for these cables to be $30+.. and, for what, two proprietary plugs with some wires in between? Not encouraging!

I have to say, though, wireless handheld gaming units could be really popular, but I think cellphone based systems will ultimately prove more successful than the Gameboy. Almost everyone in the target market carries a cellphone nowadays, and the beauty of wireless gaming is that you can play whenever you feel like it. Most people won't carry their Gameboys around with them all of the time.. but they'll have their phone.

Most people who DO play Gameboy games together using the cable are usually meeting up at someone elses' house anyway.. and if you're going to do that, why not play just play multiplayer on an XBox or PS2? That's why cabled mobile gaming hasn't caught on so far.. people just don't all take their Gameboys and meet up in inconvenient locations just for the fun of it.. with wireless, they could.

Re:A few points

[Spankophile]

Most people who DO play Gameboy games together using the cable are usually meeting up at someone elses' house anyway.. and if you're going to do that, why not play just play multiplayer on an XBox or PS2?

No way! The majority of the times I was playing my original GameBoy with the link cable was over Recess or Lunchhour when I was still in gradeschool!

I remember playing Tetris on the original gameboy and hating how fast the time flew, then that Formula 1 game came out with FOUR PLAYERS! on gameboy! It

Re:A few points

[Kris_J]

then that Formula 1 game came out with FOUR PLAYERS!

You know what's stupid? The GBA can support four players, but often doesn't. Case in point; Lord of the Rings: Return of the King. Let's face it people, it's a Diablo II clone. The more people the better. Now, I have noticed some slow down in multiplayer when the number of critters on the screen goes up, but surely they could have found some way to support four players.

Re:A few points

[edwdig]

Where are you looking for cables? The official Nintendo one is about $12. You can find 3rd party ones for less.

Re:A few points

[chill182]

I bought a GBA link cable for like $5. For $30 you should be getting some kind of Monster brand GBA link cable with gold plated connectors.
I think GBA wireless gaming would be cool, but it would be even cooler if more games supported multiplayer with one game pak. There aren't very many games that my friends and I all own.

Re:A few points

[Shadarr]

The best games for multiplayer are Advance Wars 2 and Bomberman Tournament. The funny thing about Bomberman is that you CAN'T use multiple cartridges, even if you have them. And there are some pretty long loads.

AW2 is kind of the same way... sure you can play four-player with one cartridge or four, but there's no real advantage over just passing a single GBA around.

Re:A few points

[Schezar]

Most cell phones are SMALL. They have small screens and long battery lives. Adding gaming to that adversly affects both of these aspects, which happen to be the primary factors in my choice of phone.

I carry my cell phone everywhere. When I feel the need to game (going to the DMV or somesuch), I bring the GBA as well.

If my cell phone had a screen large enough to play a decent game on it, it would be bulkier than I want a cell phone to be. If it had the power to play the kinds of games I like to play, the battery would last a craptacularly short time.

Cell phones will become a viable gaming platform when screens become little holo-projectors that don't require any space.

And just a note, if you paid $30 for a link cable, you must be brain-damaged. The official Nintendo ones run about $12 new and $5 used. 3'rd party ones run about $10. Did you make that number up to prove your point?

Re:A few points

[clu76]

but I think cellphone based systems will ultimately prove more successful than the Gameboy

I disagree. For cellphone gaming to truly take off, the cellphone industry would need to adopt a standard cellphone gaming platform. Nokia alone could not do it. Sprint, Verizon, ATT and others would all have to be in agreement on this. Right now, not all cell service providers are compatible with all brands of phones.

And then to make things even more difficult, game phones still have to compete with a hun

Re:A few points

[MMaestro]

Most people who DO play Gameboy games together using the cable are usually meeting up at someone elses' house anyway..

No offense, but whens the last time you heard someone openly admit or flaunt a Gameboy in public and play with someone else over the link cable? Unless you're in a public area and/or you don't give a crap about what other people think, showing off your Gameboy isn't going to land you extra points if you're caught playing Tetris while waiting for a job interview.

Cabled mobile gaming? Sure, i

Re:A few points

[Allison Geode]

"Most people who DO play Gameboy games together using the cable are usually meeting up at someone elses' house anyway.. "

while I do do some link-play at home, oftentimes, my friends and I whip out our gameboys when we go to the theatre and wait for a movie to start. beats paying a buck to play the aging house of the dead 2 machine in the lobby with its misaligned light guns that shoot about two inches left of where you aim. there are a few other games in the lobby, but none of them other than Namco's "cl

Re:A few points

[Kris_J]

It's not just the need for a cable, but the price of the cable when you go and look for one.

I got one free with Bubble Bobble.

Re:A few points

[stonecypher]

It's not just the need for a cable, but the price of the cable when you go and look for one. It is not uncommon for these cables to be $30+

Welcome to Earth, people of Mars. I seriously hope that's like a Siberian dollar or something. New link cables from N list at $10US, though many stores sell them at $8; off-brand cables from Pelican and MadCatz and whoever are usually around $5.

Maybe you shouldn't buy the cable with the convenient Heroin Stamp accessory? Sort of drives the price up.

Most people wh

Re:3d engines and handhelds

[stonecypher]

There are a bunch. Have a look at gbadev.org and devrs.com/gba . They'll link you to a doezn, of which the best known are Yeti, BlueRoses, Panard, Spectaculaire, and some unnamed ones, such as the Wolf demo engine and the sprite face skinning demo from the yahoo group. DR Advance is arguably the best looking one, though the one that Pocketeers developed is a good contender, as are Yeti and DeltaAdvance.

Dreadling

[svanstrom]

Great 3D-gaming on my ol' Palm Vx.

http://www.sunsetwestpi.com/palmorama/dreadling. ht m

DS, PSP, Sony???

[pudge_lightyear]

I may be the only person who sees the Sony as (possibly) failing with the PSP. I think the PS2 has had a great life, but the latter part of it (the part we're in) is nothing to write home about.

Sony, I think, more than Nintendo and Microsoft, is badly in need of something that will prove itself at about this time. Since the PS3 is not going to come out a whole year before the competition, they had better give more reason to buy it than backwards compatibility. The PSP will also not have the same advantage from the start that the PS2 had...

Sony is still dominant, but hasn't given me much of a reason to buy into that dominance in the last several years. They simply enjoy a larger user base.

Nintendo is in somewhat of a similar situation, however, they don't need to worry about where the next generation gamers are going. Nintendo delivers quality... and there are a lot of people that live by that rule before all else (me included).

DS isn't a guaranteed hit either, but I think it's more guaranteed than the PSP.

Re:DS, PSP, Sony???

[Torgo's Pizza]

I'd place bets that the PSP will greatly outdo the DS. If it didn't have the Nintendo name attached to it, the DS would be dead in the water. The DS won't enjoy the third-party support the PSP will and the DS indirectly competes with the GBA.

I feel the marketplace wants to find a good competitor to Nintendo in the handheld market. The PSP is currently the best shot in a long line of failed other attempts.

Re:DS, PSP, Sony???

[buffer-overflowed]

The DS is targetting a different market than either the PSP or the GBA.

Heck the PSP targets a different market than the GBA does. One I'm not sure exists and has the means to buy the thing(College kids fit the bill, but I was flat BROKE in college).

Take me for example. I'm an early 20s male, how do I spend my time.

Well, I'm either at home, at work, in transit to work, or out and about. I won't(and don't) bring a handheld gaming device to most of those locations. Most either have TVs(Home, friends houses) or it's impossible/not likely for me to be gaming in those locations (I'm not whipping out any of these devices at a bar or at work for instance).

Now, waiting rooms and the like, sure, but four times a year is hardly worth the cost of a handheld. Travel? Yea, great. Got a laptop for planes, and I don't ride too many trains or buses as I'm not an urbanite.

I ended up getting a GBA for two main reasons:
1. GBA-GCN linking. Not used a lot, but FF:CC for example gives you an experience you can't get anywhere else.
2. Homebrew development.

The games were really just a bonus.

So, you have Nintendo's platforms, both of which offer you experiences you simply can't get anywhere else. The DS has a lot of potential, if some of the rumors are true. Regardless it's going to give you something you can't get anywhere else. The virtual boy did, the original Gameboy did, the GBA does. Whether or not this is something either you or the market want is up in the air, but it's definately a big difference and advantage.

The PSP meanwhile is a disk-based souped up 3D gameboy. All it offers is portability. Toss in the history of the Market, and it isn't going to do well.

Re:DS, PSP, Sony???

[Torgo's Pizza]

If anything, it shows that the handheld market is the most unstable, most frustrating gaming market. For something that seems to be a homerun, the market chews up new entries and kills product left and right. Simply amazing when you think about how just one platform (the Gameboy incarnations) has stayed around for so long and been so popular.

Re:DS, PSP, Sony???

[Allison Geode]

thats not true either. the handheld market is stupidly stable. over the years, the home consoles have always vied for position as top dog.. but when it comes to handhelds, there is only one brand name that has ever dominated, and thats Nintendo gameboy.
Sure, other companies have launched their handhelds, and they've all fallen with relatively short lives (compared to the standard shelf-life of a home console, or the game boy.)

Re:DS, PSP, Sony???

[buffer-overflowed]

Two things the market has historically shown:
1. No handheld priced over $100 has EVER succeeded.
2. Battery life is more important than processing power.

The gameboy beat and has beat all comers because it's been the cheapest(always $100 or less) and has had the best battery life. Add into this the quality of the handheld games and the inevitable deluge of third party software due to it's ubiquity and cracking the Gameboy market share is a tough thing to do. Not to mention over 10 years of backwards compatible games, a large catalog of games which appeal to the thus far primary market for handhelds(children [Hence the importance of low cost]), and a now quite slick design.

SEGA failed with the Gamegear, and that was color versus black and white released by a company who at the time shared the console throne with Nintendo AND had strong first party titles(as Nintendo does and Sony doesn't). It was also competing at a time when there weren't several thousand Gameboy titles in the back catalog.

Atari failed too, miserably.

Nokia most recently failed, and failed miserably.

So, why do people think the PSP is going to do well? Because of Sony's dominance in the Console realm? It didn't help SEGA when SEGA was sharing dominance with Nintendo. Because it's technically superior offering? Hasn't helped any other competitors.

What we have upcoming is the maker of the number two non-PC gaming product(the PS2) trying to take on the number one non-PC gaming product(the GBA).

The handheld market really isn't all that screwy, it's actually pretty easy to understand. To succeed you need a cheap product with excellent battery life that can compete with the experience offered by other offerings. So far, most competitors have gotten the last bit to one degree or another. Nokia failed on all 3 fronts. Those 3 points are absolutely necessary to capture the existing market away from Nintendo.

Nintendo's gameboy is the platinum standard, it IS the handheld market for all intents and purposes, and it's been the market for quite some time.

Now, if you want to argue that Sony stands a chance at growing the handheld market, as they did with the Console market, and thus introducing new factors required for success in that realm, I'll buy that as a possibility. I do not however see it, because I don't see the primary market for consoles using handheld gaming devices enough to justify the purchase of one without getting additional value from it they can't get elsewhere.

In my case for instance, I'll just wait a year and throw down a bit more change and get a PS3 or a GCN2 or an XBox 2.

Then add in the following things we know about Sony:
1. No gaming product they have released has lived up to it's hype. See also: the PS2.
2. They have an awful reputation for hardware longevity, their stuff breaks, frequently. See also: the PS1/PS2.

Except for a few developers, I expect the vast majority to take a wait and see approach to the PSP. I see it occupying at best the position the GameGear was in. A distant but respectable second and a must-own for the hardcore, but not the mainstream all pervasive product the PS2 or GBA are.

As to the DS. The DS is a niche product, and built to be a niche product. It's an attempt to give gamers stuff they aren't going to get on a console, or PC, or on the GBA/PSP. New concepts, new types of games, and the like. It's primary purpose is not as a handheld, it just could only work as a handheld(due to the two screens), so it really isn't targetted in anyway at the handheld market, though I'm sure people from that market will buy it.

Re:DS, PSP, Sony???

[cubicledrone]

So, why do people think the PSP is going to do well?

Because Sony is a "favored" company, like Microsoft. Nintendo is not.

Therefore Sony's entry into a market that Nintendo has a HAMMERLOCK on is "deeply troubling for the gaming giant (Nintendo)" while if Nintendo were trying to enter a market (Gamecube?) that Sony had 99.9% market share in, it would be "highly unlikely that Nintendo could succeed."

Same situation with Apple's iPod and Dell's crap-player. Dell is a favored company. Apple is not, despit

Re:DS, PSP, Sony???

[stonecypher]

Because Sony is a "favored" company, like Microsoft.

What? Uh. Favored how? You really think people like Microsoft more than Nintendo? You haven't been to Slashdot before, have you?

Therefore Sony's entry into a market that Nintendo has a HAMMERLOCK on is "deeply troubling for the gaming giant (Nintendo)" while if Nintendo were trying to enter a market (Gamecube?) that Sony had 99.9% market share in, it would be "highly unlikely that Nintendo could succeed."

Yeah. This makes lots of sense. Make up

Re:DS, PSP, Sony???

[buffer-overflowed]

Point of Fact: Nintendo didn't have a "HAMMERLOCK" on the console market just before the N64/PS era, they lost their "HAMMERLOCK" when they were dreadfully late to the 16-bit party.

The Genesis and SNES shared the throne and it was Nintendo that ultimately said to SEGA, hey, scoot over.

They had a "HAMMERLOCK"(can I stop using that word now?) with the NES in North America, and the SMS couldn't touch it. No 8-bit player could. 1 in 3 US households had a NES by IIRC 1989.

While in Europe the SMS strangely d

Re:a few other things to point out

[Psykechan]

First off, People say I'm a Nintendo fangirl so don't cite me for pushing anti-Nintendo FUD.

You list things that the market has shown to be true. Unfortunately, the market is always changing and there are two factors that you missed:

1. Before Sony came along, no "consumer electronics" company survived in the video game market.

Matsushita (Panasonic), Pioneer, NEC, Phillips, and if we go back a bit, Magnavox have all thrown their hat into the lucrative video game ring just to lose fortunes. While one co

Re:DS, PSP, Sony???

[stonecypher]

The gameboy beat and has beat all comers because it's been the cheapest(always $100 or less)

Sorry, chummer, the GameBoy originally retailed at $199, and was quickly dropped to $179.

So, why do people think the PSP is going to do well?

Because 1) Sony doesn't make the buffoonish design and marketing errors the Nokia and Sega does, and 2) because Sony has almost nine times as many developers as Nintendo does.

Everything you point out in your list of things that made the DMG/GBC/AGB win is either true of S

Re:DS, PSP, Sony???

[buffer-overflowed]

We both forgot the Pocketstation, Sony's last foray into this market, and a failure at that, and it's been how long since the Gameboy came out? I guess I forgot how much it cost back then, appologies.

Because 1) Sony doesn't make the buffoonish design and marketing errors the Nokia and Sega does, and 2) because Sony has almost nine times as many developers as Nintendo does.

Design flaws? No, but they don't exactly make products which have style and personality either.

Developers: They're almost all thir

Hmm.. nice list.

[AzraelKans]

Ok heres my take:

The One who has an obvious advantage is nintendo since they have the lead with the gameboy but the whole Dual screen idea looks more like a novelty than an actual feature. Even before launch developers have showed themselves a bit esceptic on it taking off. Nintendo had always said that their advantage would be their price, but now that the DS is rumoured to have a 3d chip it would affect it directly. Parents and gamers wont mind buying a GBA at $100 but a DS at $200+? with less than half the battery life?(speculative price) why not just buy a GBA instead?

The PSP is the second most important contender, while many think that is a sure bet as the handheld king, sony has actual little to no experience in the handheld market, and actually had a flop in their past (the pocketstation). The biggest problem according some analists is its price which would range around $200-$300 and that the product will not be targetted at kids-teens but at the teenage-adult market (just like the PS according some) while teens and young adults have always been haldheld consumers the adult market is a niche that has never been touched. In order to achieve this the psp will have MP3, MPG and rumored MiniDVD and TV playing capabilities (plus other apps like a personal agenda and even a digital camera with an add on) it will be advertised as a multi task device instead of a handheld. The problem still persits: will gamers be willing to expend the extra cash in a "multi device" when all they want is a handheld?

The N-Gage 2, with the history of n-gage is easy to discard this one of the list as a contender at all, while N-gage 2 will fix a good part of the designs problems that make the first one a joke, Nokia still has the problem that they dont develop any games and that not many 3rd party companies will be willing to risk to partner with them (again) after their big flop. Technical problems aside, the pricing, useless user packages and complete lack of support were also terrible and none of them seems to have been tackled off for its succesor.

In my opinion this "war" was already over before it started, Sony and Nintendo will each take a section of the market and "share" it somehow. Nintendo will hold most kids, some teens a small group of young adults and their old fanbase. Sony will get a small group of kids a good part of teens, most young adults and their old fanbase. Even if both systems turn out to be flops they will still offer better quality and game libraries than their competition. (ngage2, zodiac and cell phones) So basically (unless something unexpected happens) it is a no brainer.

p.s. About the article: seriously do you think is a good idea to hear handheld predictions from a guy who greenlighted a N-gage game?

Thanks for reading fellow slashdotters, peace!

My new upcoming sig:

Slashdot needs 2 new modifiers: -1:Frantic fanboy and -1: Compulsive whinner. Unfortunately I get the feeling everyone (including me) would get modded -2 practically all the time

Why all the hate on the Zodiac?

[M3wThr33]

Some ex-Palm employees get together and finally make a good gaming Palm and people start thinking it's doomed?

I got one for my brother and he loves it. Of course, he wired Wi-Fi and Bluetooth into his car, so the Zodiac also works with wireless internet in there and controls Winamp through the computer in it, but he enjoys it nonetheless.

It'd be one thing if I heard people bagging on it like the N-Gage, but everyone I know loves it aside from the early analog stick problems. Heck, the thing isn't even fully launched yet. They don't have enough ready to ship to stores.

People can be so quick to judge.

Re:Why all the hate on the Zodiac?

[Cpt_Kirks]

What hate? Did I miss something?

The Zodiac has just about replaced the GP32 as the Ultimate Handheld Emulation Console. A Genesis emulator has joined the pool now. The full GBA emulator is due out next Friday.

With NES, SNES, GameGear/SMS, C64, ST, TG-16, Colecovision, GB, GBC, Apple IIe, ZX, 2600, Xcade, etc. emulators, there isn't a hell of a lot the Z won't run.

Add in the (so far, just a few) orignal games, plus all the Palm stuff, what's to hate?

Re:Why all the hate on the Zodiac?

[AzraelKans]

I dont think people "hate" the zodiac, they simply dont consider it a competitor, I mean everybody (who knows it) loves the g32 (the taiwan handheld that can run mame games and its own) however it just doesnt have enough users to be considered a GBA competitor. Another example: Infinium labs can be as loud as they want and start suing people left and right as much as they feel like but still no one in their right mind will label the phantom as a console competitor(even if it had been released) they are (wou

Re:Why all the hate on the Zodiac?

[stonecypher]

Some ex-Palm employees get together and finally make a good gaming Palm and people start thinking it's doomed?

Find someone off of slashdot who's heard of the zodiac, and get it at least one big name title, reduce its price to within 200% of the competition, and we'll talk.

It's the software stupid...

[samdu]

All the comments I've read have speculated that this company's handheld will win for this reason or that company's handheld will lose for that reason. None have mentioned what will truly be the deciding factor: THE GAMES! And from what I've seen announced, PSP is going to have a lineup that will truly challenge Nintendo's grip on the handheld market like no other handheld before it.

This is not to say that SOny will automatically win, but it does give Sony a much better chance at competeing with the big N t