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Censorship PlayStation (Games) Entertainment Games

New E3-Shown Games Push Sexual Envelope 91

Posted by simoniker from the oh-my dept.
Thanks to CNN Money for its article discussing the seamier side of E3's videogame selection, as it notes: "It's one thing to see Lara Croft's hot-shorts clad posterior while you play 'Tomb Raider.' It's another thing entirely to see the sagging, slightly lumpy and entirely unclothed buttocks of Larry Lovage streak across your screen." The article also discusses Singles, the Eidos U.S.-published title "best described as a naughty version of 'The Sims.'...[which] doesn't shy away from male or female full frontal nudity", noting that "the ESRB slapped 'Singles' with an AO rating", which is "essentially, an NC-17 or worse... Most retailers will not sell a game with that rating." Tom Marx of Eidos expresses his distress with this rating, arguing for an M rating instead, and noting as part of his argument: "I don't really think someone is going to get the same feeling of attraction in seeing a full frontal digital game character as they would from seeing that in an actor or actress."
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New E3-Shown Games Push Sexual Envelope More

New E3-Shown Games Push Sexual Envelope

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  • I guess that explains why I've never heard of the game. They sure do keep the wraps on the AO/X-rated market pretty tight.

    • Re:Adults only? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by praxis22 ( 681878 ) on Wednesday May 12, 2004 @11:04AM (#9127540) Homepage
      You can find this title readily in Germany, it's been reviewed by every major magazine to one extent or another. You really have to wonder about the Puritanical sensibilities of the US at times. What amused me most was seeing many years ago the version of robocop that was screened on TV in America, they left all the violence in, (even the bits they wouldn't show in the UK) but took all the swearing out, which ruined most of the really funny jokes. Wierdness...

    • Re:Adults only? (Score:5, Informative)

      by Creepy ( 93888 ) on Wednesday May 12, 2004 @04:24PM (#9132492) Journal
      Actually, what's interesting is that both Singles, Playboy Mansion, and the new Leisure Suit Larry sequel _ARE_ getting press coverage from major online sites. The new Larry was even in the "top 10" list of games IGN wanted to see at E3 (posted sometime last week, and which begins today). I've seen coverage of both on Gamespy and Gamespot, and I usually just browse through the front page to see what's new without actually looking in-depth.

      The rating systems in the USA are embarassingly broken, and I think need to be re-evaluated.

      Movies:
      Violence - takes a lot to affect rating, a tiny amount can occur in G rated movies. PG if not gory, PG-13 if tiny amount of gore or lots of violence (e.g. Red Dawn), R if really gory. NC-17 is practically impossible without also having sex (take Passion of Christ, for instance)
      Nudity - automatic PG-13, but takes a lot for more than R.
      Sex (faked) - R unless excessive, then NC-17
      Sex (real/graphical) - NC-17/AO
      Drug Paraphenalia - automatic PG-13
      Drug Use - PG-13 if brief or implied, usually R.

      Games:
      Violence - Teen start, can get very gory at M
      Nudity - automatic M, AO if not brief.
      Sex (faked) - adult situations (romance plots)=Teen, implied sex seems to pretty much get an M, more than brief=AO.
      Sex (graphical) - AO
      Drug Paraphenalia - nothing, as far as I can tell - at worst it would be Teen.
      Drug Use - Teen if effects not shown, M if shown (Gothic is the only example I know of).

      Basically, the ratings are fairly close except when it comes to nudity/sex, most likely because of the ESRB's horribly-proven-as-wrong preconception that gamers are all kids. I guess there's still the fear that kids might stumble across the game while playing on their parent's computer or something, but the parent should be responsible enough to either hide the CD or put a password on a user. I mean, seriously - parents could just as easily leave the gun cabinet unlocked or pornography out on the coffee table for their kids to view.
      • Basically, the ratings are fairly close except when it comes to nudity/sex, most likely because of the ESRB's horribly-proven-as-wrong preconception that gamers are all kids. I guess there's still the fear that kids might stumble across the game while playing on their parent's computer or something, but the parent should be responsible enough to either hide the CD or put a password on a user. I mean, seriously - parents could just as easily leave the gun cabinet unlocked or pornography out on the coffee tab

        • Re:Adults only? (Score:3, Insightful)

          by cluke ( 30394 )
          You've got it very wrong there, my friend. Most mammals go to very great lengths to protect their young, humans included. The reason humans do it even more so is that their young are born in a much more vulnerable state than other mammals.

          You may be right in that our society protects the adult 'weak', i.e. via social security, charity and such mechanisms, but if we were not to protect our children that would be folly of the highest order as far as evolution was concerned. An 8 year-old Einstein is at as mu

  • Stupid (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Henry V .009 ( 518000 ) on Wednesday May 12, 2004 @10:58AM (#9127437) Journal
    This is stupid marketing. If you want to make a game with adult content, sell a PG-13 kiddie version that everybody under 5 can buy, and release the hardcore porn in a patch.

    Helps if you don't have a soul, but big entertainment has proved that lack often enough.

    • Re:Stupid (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Mattcelt ( 454751 ) on Wednesday May 12, 2004 @11:22AM (#9127829)
      What I think is just as stupid is when a marketer practically begs for a less mature rating for a product which obviously deserves a higher one. I agree that patches for 'adult' content are the way to go - hell, I don't want to see mature content all the time; there are times when it's nice to have a fun game without nudity.

      "I don't really think someone is going to get the same feeling of attraction in seeing a full frontal digital game character as they would from seeing that in an actor or actress."

      It's obvious that this guy has never seen hentai [hentairing.com]!
      • You have a tough time finding a game without nudity that's fun for you?

        Kidding aside, what major games that didn't suck had nudity in them? I have no idea but you probably count them on less than one hand.
        • you probably count them on less than one hand.

          Nice to have that other hand free to, uh, "research" the nudity, eh?

  • Guys looking at Porn (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Uma Thurman ( 623807 ) on Wednesday May 12, 2004 @11:01AM (#9127491) Homepage Journal
    The only reason anyone is upset is that it's going to be a bunch of guys looking at naked girls on the computer.

    The real outrage is the free ride that women get. I was showing my wife a copy of Playboy magazine. Her reaction was "that's it"? She was expecting some nasty funky stuff or something, based on how bent out of shape people get when you say "Playboy Magazine".

    Then, she showed me her Cosmo. The very same Cosmo that is stocked at the eye-level height of an 8 year old. WOW! She convinced me, and I am not a faithful subscriber.

    So, the story of the future is this: moral outrage about Leisure Suit Larry, extending into perpetuity. But nobody is going to notice the racy programs that will be marketed to girls in the future.

    • Re:Uma Thurman? (Score:1, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Is Uma Thurman's husband posting with her Slashdot Login? Seriously, Woman get a "free ride," because, biologically, they are a lot less susceptible visual stimulation than men. You know the joke "I get Playboy for the articles!" Well, females actually do read the articles in Cosmo. Blame testerone, not social mores, for the double-standard.
      • Read the articles in Cosmo.. ..it's like reading one of those Penthouse Letters digests with some fashion articles and recipes thrown in.
    • I'll listen to anything Uma Thurman says.

      *drool*
    • She was expecting some nasty funky stuff or something, based on how bent out of shape people get when you say "Playboy Magazine".

      What people get bent out of shape re: Playboy?

      Hustler, Penthouse, Barely Legal, yeah... but Playboy? Gimme a break.

      Then, she showed me her Cosmo. The very same Cosmo that is stocked at the eye-level height of an 8 year old. WOW! She convinced me, and I am not a faithful subscriber.

      I don't look at Cosmo much, but correct me if I'm wrong, this is a women's magazine showing wo

      • Re:Guys looking at Porn (Score:1, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward
        but correct me if I'm wrong

        OK, you're wrong. It's more than a makeup mag. Pick up a copy sometime, and learn how to blow your boyfriend's mind with a toungue properly applied to the penis.

        You think I'm flaming, but that's the type of article they have. Remember, women aren't visual, so their porn looks like the Bible - printed words on the page. Take a close look at the words...
      • There are still many stupid people who think Playboy is smut. (Of course, Playboy was never about smut, just pretty ladies naked.)
    • "Cosmo - the magazine lesbians read in order to find out what the straight woman they are trying to seduce is thinking..." Not my quote, but I can't find the author....
  • ... discussing the seamier side of E3's videogame selection...

    Wouldn't it be more appropriate to say "seamless"?

  • NAKED PEOPLE! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by EnglishTim ( 9662 ) on Wednesday May 12, 2004 @11:08AM (#9127595)
    Funny, isn't it.

    We've had murder, torture, maiming and genocide in games for ages, but throw in a naked person and suddenly it's a big thing...

    • Re:NAKED PEOPLE! (Score:3, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      The silly thing is that nobody other than the Americans gives a fuck. In England, "The Singles" is sitting on the shelves of all the game shops, record stores and supermarkets, and nobody bats an eyelid.
    • And all of this went on before video games were even invented? Facinating.
    • Yeah, we've seen the insides of people plenty of times, and now there making a problem of showing the outsides!

  • "essentially, an NC-17 or worse... Most retailers will not sell a game with that rating."

    Is that why I've not yet seen a retailer that doesn't stock this game?

    • Ummm... the story is obviously about the US game market. It hasn't even been released here. The North American rights were only purchased by Eidos after its release in Europe and the AO rating was also only applied very recently. I suppose this is why Eidos only mentioned it for release as an online download in their initial press release.

  • Article author is an idiot... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Mitleid ( 734193 ) on Wednesday May 12, 2004 @11:14AM (#9127710)
    Please tell me how it is not sexist to compare a completely unrealistically proportioned female in sexy ass-pants to a middle-aged scumbag trying to get some action, and declaring the latter as beginning to "cross the line"?

    This is a lot like all the hubbub people made about the fucking superbowl "scandal". You have sports institutions like the Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders or whatever dressed as clad as legally possible for national TV, and then some "racy" pop star busts out her breast for all of America to see and it's an outrage? Come on!

    Nudity and sex is all about context, and being an American it seems that too many people get bent out of shape about someone being naked, and it's seriously going to warp the minds of our youth. Nudity is declared as innapropriate, but it's completely OK for every other (if not all) female character on TV to be sporting some sort of cleavage or ass-revealing outfit? Leisure Suit Larry is an ADULT-ORIENTED and sexually themed game, thus I hope we get to see some guys nuts and maybe a rediculously-sized breast getting thrown across our screens here and there. That's the appeal of games like that, right? (I don't play them; someone help me out here...) What I don't understand is why do I happen to turn on some tripe like CSI and see a woman clad in the most "professionally-appropriate" revealing outfit and that's "OK"?

    Personally, I think sex is overused in all aspects of American pop culture. But at the same time, the media portrays it as controversial and extreme, and that's why it sells. People always talk about the sexual revolution, blah blah blah, but all the "progress" made in America that ever seems to happen is just allowing women to be able to show more and more of their bodies, and the twisted fools that read magazines like Maxim to oggle over them and continue objectifying, and I think this article only illustrates what kind of a double standard these "journalists" help to create.

    • Re:Article author is an idiot... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by junkgrep ( 266550 ) on Wednesday May 12, 2004 @11:33AM (#9128025)
      Unfortunately, the bottom line is: who the heck wants to see more of men's dirty, hairy ass cracks? Not even many women, really. Face it: naked women are more universally attractive and less potentially offensive to everyone on the planet except gay men, and even most gay men can appreciate naked chicks aesthetically even if they don't find them sexually interesting.

    • Re:Article author is an idiot... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by JavaLord ( 680960 ) on Wednesday May 12, 2004 @11:33AM (#9128026) Journal
      Nudity and sex is all about context, and being an American it seems that too many people get bent out of shape about someone being naked, and it's seriously going to warp the minds of our youth.

      It does mold the image of the other sex in the minds of young people though. You think a young girl who is bombarded with the objectification of women doesn't get it into her head that she should be the same way? When kids are exposed to near pornography at young ages by their 'idols' you don't think that makes them all the more eager to act it out?

      Leisure Suit Larry is an ADULT-ORIENTED and sexually themed game, thus I hope we get to see some guys nuts and maybe a rediculously-sized breast getting thrown across our screens here and there. That's the appeal of games like that, right? (I don't play them; someone help me out here...)

      I haven't played the LSL games since the first 2 or 3 (on my apple like 15 years ago) but the point back then was adult humor. The sex stuff wasn't that graphic. Of course, graphics have come a long way since then.

      Personally, I think sex is overused in all aspects of American pop culture. But at the same time, the media portrays it as controversial and extreme, and that's why it sells.

      The media is engaging in the same behavior. Stories on sex get viewers, sell newspapers, etc. Even if it's something trivial, if sex is involved people are interested.

      People always talk about the sexual revolution, blah blah blah, but all the "progress" made in America that ever seems to happen is just allowing women to be able to show more and more of their bodies, and the twisted fools that read magazines like Maxim to oggle over them and continue objectifying, and I think this article only illustrates what kind of a double standard these "journalists" help to create.

      I think the real bottom line is, sex should be allowed in video games/media etc. It's a large part of life (at least for me!). The only problem I have with it, is when the media, business and whoever else sells sex to kids.

      I think at some point, as the "Atari/NES generation" ages, and demands better entertainment from their video games, there are going to have to be better guidlines as to what kind of game gets what kind of rating and how they are distributed. I really wonder why retailers won't sell AO games, 7-11 sells porno mags, video stores carry porn, why do we constantly classify video games as a different form of media and as childrens games when such a large chunk of 20-30 males play games still?

  • Game mods! (Score:2, Funny)

    by jvmatthe ( 116058 )
    I sure hope end users can make their own modifications. Nothing extends the enjoyment of a game like a hot new mod. Mods I'd like to see:
    • Frontal Assault
    • Bombing Run
    • Jailbreak
    • Rocket Arena
    • Assassins (awful, awful)
    • Last Man Standing
    • Team Fortress
    • Capture the Flag
    • And of course...Counter-strike!

    Wait...this is the DooM 3 story, right?

    ;^)

  • I've been waiting for this for a long time (Score:5, Funny)

    by arhar ( 773548 ) on Wednesday May 12, 2004 @11:17AM (#9127768)
    Yes!!! Leisure Suit Larry with full nudity! I've been waiting for this since 1988, when I was 7.

  • HERE! HERE! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by filmsmith ( 608221 ) on Wednesday May 12, 2004 @11:20AM (#9127799)
    We need a better rating system in games AND in movies. Roger Ebert makes this case very well in one of his Movie Answer Man [suntimes.com] columns

    Q. I just returned from seeing "The Passion of the Christ." Had I been able to wrench my attention away from all of the horrified children gasping in the audience, I might have appreciated it more.

    I can understand parents showing up at this film with their children expecting something different, but after a few minutes of the tremendous violence shown onscreen, I would have thought more parents would have spared their children further horror. Shouldn't ticket sellers offer some kind of warning to parents showing up with good intentions and young children?

    Carson Utz, Novato, Calif.

    A. I'll go further than that: No responsible parent would allow a child to see the film. "The Passion of the Christ," the most violent film I have ever seen, received an R rating from the MPAA because the group, which exists in part to quell the fears of churchgoing America, lacked the nerve to give it the NC-17 rating it clearly deserves.

    This becomes an unanswerable argument for my recommendation of an A (for adults only) rating between the R (which allows parents to take in children of any age) and the NC-17, which is irretrievably associated with pornography.

    Because many theaters refuse to book NC-17 films, and many media outlets will not advertise them, imagine the irony if their own policies had forced them to boycott "The Passion of the Christ"!

    Let the MPAA bring back the X, which everyone understands, for porno and establish a useful adults-only rating for films that are not pornography but are simply unsuitable for children.


    fs

    • Re:HERE! HERE! (Score:4, Interesting)

      by JavaLord ( 680960 ) on Wednesday May 12, 2004 @11:38AM (#9128122) Journal
      I can understand parents showing up at this film with their children expecting something different, but after a few minutes of the tremendous violence shown onscreen, I would have thought more parents would have spared their children further horror. Shouldn't ticket sellers offer some kind of warning to parents showing up with good intentions and young children?

      Just as with Video games, parents need to be informed. How could any parent have missed the media frenzy bitching about how violent "passion of the christ" was? Having managed a movie theater back in my college days, I can tell you that parents just don't care nowadays. I constantly saw parents taking their young children in to see movies like "leathal weapon 4". I don't think it was out of ignorance, I think it's more indifference. I find that most parents just don't know how to be parents anymore and try to treat their children as friends. It's sad.

      If you are a parent and you bring your child to a R rated movie, which is clearly stated to be for people 18 and above, then it's your fault when the child sees the violence, or sex in that movie. It's not the fault of the MPAA or anyone else.

      • I constantly saw parents taking their young children in to see movies like "leathal weapon 4". I don't think it was out of ignorance, I think it's more indifference.

        You certainly are making points for the people who say "desentivisation to violence" is a lot worse than showing violence.

        I'd put in a caveat however, desentivisation to violence is less likely to occur with movies like "Passion" which show everything(the bad, ugly consequences of violence) than more mainstream, gangster-type movies which onl

    • Let the MPAA bring back the X, which everyone understands, for porno and establish a useful adults-only rating for films that are not pornography but are simply unsuitable for children.

      That's what NC-17 was supposed to be (I believe it was introduced first with Last Tango in Paris). And it works pretty well. The reason that most theaters don't run NC-17 films has nothing to do with it being "irretrievably associated with pornograhy" (because it simply is not) but rather a matter of simple economics. Th

      • Point taken, but wasn't Last Tango in Paris considered "unsuitable for children" exactly because of all the sex and nudity?

        Or, I guess they could have a "porn" rating, one for "artsy but adults only", one for "loads of nekkid boffing, but done very tastefully", one for "s00per violent and gross", and one for everything from "Samuel L. Bronkowitz Presents".

        :-)
      • First off, Ebert is aware that NC-17 was supposed to be the 'Adult' rating he's pushing now. However, he states that it has fallen far short of that and is now associated (unfairly) with porn. Hence his call for a revision.

        Second, I don't believe it would be a niche market at all. Instead, it would help grade the difference of mature cinema even more and give the director a more subtle brush with which to paint. As it is, most films are being stripped down and released as PG-13 to capture the TRUE moviegoe

        • Second, I don't believe it would be a niche market at all. Instead, it would help grade the difference of mature cinema even more and give the director a more subtle brush with which to paint. As it is, most films are being stripped down and released as PG-13 to capture the TRUE moviegoer market that pulls in all the tickets.

          I disagree with your statement, it IS a niche market, mostly because it turns away moviegoers(a large number of them) without creating the "elite" feel that would allow movie theaters

      • The UK cinema industry seems to be doing OK with our rating system, so the economic argument doesn't make much sense.
        (over here, films are rated Universal, "Parental Guidance", 12A, 12, 15 and 18. For the last three, if you are younger than the age set you aren't allowed in at all, accompanied by an adult or not. 12A is "under 12's accompanied allowed" IIRC)
  • Why don't they just keep games as games and porn as porn
  • Tell me this means a remake of Chiller! [coinop.org]
  • It's noteworthy that Singles supports homosexual relationships.

    • Re:For the religious right: (Score:5, Funny)

      by Tezkah ( 771144 ) on Wednesday May 12, 2004 @12:20PM (#9128828)
      "The actions taken by the game industry are an affront to Christians everywhere," declared Mrs. Betty Bowers, America's Best Christian. "I am just thankful that the church's founder, Henry VIII, and his wife Catherine of Aragon, his wife Anne Boleyn, his wife Jane Seymour, his wife Anne of Cleves, his wife Katherine Howard, and his wife Catherine Parr are no longer here to suffer through this assault on our 'traditional Christian marriage.'"

      >.>

  • Missed the best. (Score:5, Funny)

    by SuiteSisterMary ( 123932 ) <{slebrun} {at} {gmail.com}> on Wednesday May 12, 2004 @12:31PM (#9128992) Journal

    Nobody's mentioned Rumble Roses [ign.com], the mud-wrestling game which advertises a 'hands free' cpu-vs-cpu mode.

  • Leisure Suit Larry is coming back. That's awesome! I miss the old guard Sierra Adventure games (well, except for Kings Quest). I do hope Sierra doesn't make it so explicit that it gets too high a rating to be widely distributed. The best part of the Leisure Suit Larry games was that there was a lot of innuendo but not much naughty happening onscreen.

    It would be cool if Sierra could score some cameos like Quagmire from Family Guy or Larry from Three's Company.

  • This sort of thing cracks me up... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by leland242 ( 736905 ) on Wednesday May 12, 2004 @12:46PM (#9129247)
    So I just started playing the latest (?) Rockstar offering: Manhunt. By far, this is the most violent game I have ever played. It deserves no less than an AO rating, yet it recieves an M because it is just violence and swearing (but no sex). Last night I (virtually) killed someone by ripping out their throat and then punching a hole in thier head - all with a crowbar. Another death involved beating someone with a baseball bat. When they eventually fell to the ground and begged for thier life, I popping thier head with my boot (and hearing brains et al squish across the floor and onto the far wall). Somehow, I think that deserves a stronger rating than an M. Now we have a game with digital (and more than likely, not highly detailed) boobs, butts, and crotches and it's the beginning of the downfall of man. What a sad commentary on our society. Although not surprising in the days of Bush's FCC.
    • Oh, come on, I'm all for knocking Bush, but the sad fact of the matter, everything is not his fault. Just most things. As long as I can remember violence has been tolerated far more than nudity in the US. This outrage would be happening just as much under Clinton, Bush Sr. or... Er, who was it, Reagan? (lol, pretty sad that I can only accurately remember back 2 presidents, and I don't actually remember anything from Bush Sr. But give me a break, I was born in '84.)
    • Makes me wonder what rating real life would get. It contains nudity, adult themes, drug use, violence, sexual blah blah... but it's about choice. You had the option of not putting that crowbar through that guy's head right? You chose to do it (I guess). Can't see that you can really rate games and movies in the same way.
      • You're right, I chose the worst death possible for that guy so I guess the game could be less offensive. You raise an interesting point - just because I can kill the hooker doesn't mean I have to. I think most people (who play action games) would select the graphic violence option over the happy fluffy bunny option.

  • "I don't really think someone is going to get the same feeling of attraction in seeing a full frontal digital game character as they would from seeing that in an actor or actress."

    Wow... sounds like someone is pretty naive.

  • Lovage? (Score:2, Informative)

    by op00to ( 219949 )
    Who the hell is Larry Lovage? C'mon, folks, it's Larry Laffer.
    • Not so. Larry's retired from the series. This is his NEPHEW we're talking about(hence why the game can take on a college campus setting).
  • Is that where you keep French Letters?
  • Has anyone tried playing this game?
    On my Athlon 1.33, 512Mb, GeforceFX 5600 256Mb, it is barely playable at 800x600 with all the details turned right down. It uses up to 300mb of ram and takes ages to load in all the textures etc.

    I think I'll try again in a couple of years when I have a faster PC.

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