Storytelling For MMO Games Discussed 40
Thanks to GameRifts for its interview with television and videogame scriptwriter Lee Sheldon regarding the state of writing/story in online gaming. Sheldon, who has most recently worked on Cyan's URU: Ages Beyond Myst, is asked "Do you see good, even epic story lines, becoming a core feature of MMORPGs in the future?", and responds: "Yes, and sooner rather than later... The big question of course is whether [developers will] continue to spend all their money on high quality art and programming and treat the writing as a hobby anyone can do. Without the same commitment to quality as in the other elements that make up an MMORPG the writing will continue to fail miserably."
Indeed! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Indeed! (Score:4, Informative)
So it's not impossible. The big challenge, as I see it, is to give each character the possibility of a personal story that eventually affects the state of the world.
Re:Indeed! (Score:5, Insightful)
Writing is crucial (Score:3, Insightful)
With all that being said, I think that if the writing comes up in terms of quality, these games are poised to take off in popularity far greater than they currently enjoy.
Re:Writing is crucial (Score:3, Funny)
INTERIOR: DARTH VADER'S COCKPIT.
Vader's targeting computer swings around into position. Vader
takes careful aim on Luke's X-wing fighter.
VADER: I have you now.
He pushes the fire buttons.
EXTERIOR: SURFACE OF THE DEATH STAR.
The three TIE fighters move in on Luke. As Vader's center
fighter unleashes a volley of laserfire, one of the TIE ships
at his side is hit and explodes into flame. The two remaining
ships continue to move in.
INTERIOR: LUK
Re:Writing is crucial (Score:1)
Let's take one of the basic types of story -- there's this really random badass emperor ruling some random kingdom someplace with his Mighty Iron Fist, which would ultimately be the "end boss" of the MMO. What I had in mind again, is that there'd be hired people to be playing the game, acting out as certain roles. Like somebody in another comment said there were different kinds
They all have the same story... (Score:5, Funny)
Easier said than done (Score:5, Interesting)
In reality, this is fairly hard to do. You need tohire good professional writers, who follow eveyr possible branch of the story arc out for months. You need to have the content happen often enough to make it interesting for all. There's a lot of potential there, but its going to be expensive and difficult to tap.
A better solution may be to go for episodic games. Create a world, and sell the game cheaply (or over the net release) and have a series of self contained story plots. Release a new one every month or whatever for a low price (10 bucks?). Buying it in store gives 2 or 3 free episodes, web gives 1. Make it online, but not true MMO- maybe 100 people at a time to keep it reasonable. I think it would be a lot easier to do this than to create enough content to keep an MMO going.
Ultima online did for a while (Score:1)
Asheron's Call (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Asheron's Call (Score:1)
I did want to see them, so I made the journey out through treacherous country to see one of the fallen spires soon after. I visited the town of Arwic soon af
Re:Asheron's Call (Score:4, Informative)
There was even a hub town that caused a lot lag on all servers because of the constant overpopulation...so the town (Arwic) actually got blown up into a huge smoldering crater by the shadows :)
These Devs had FUN, and they were Involved with their game, a key element missing from so many today. The storyline was also good in AC, with a few story arcs like the shadows, virindi, olthoi, and Martine / Gaerlan. Sometimes getting to converse with the characters or battle them.
ah good memories of a great game :)
(and I do remember the shadow wars, defending Fort Tethana and other towns.)
Re:Asheron's Call (Score:1)
That was the first of the year long epic. It wasn't for several more months that players understood that we were destroying the very chains of the beast who would come destroy us. The des
FFXI (Score:4, Interesting)
However...
It isn't a "normal" Final Fantasy plot and comparing it with these is a good way of observing the limitations that going massively multiplayer puts on a game's "central" plot. The Final Fantasy series is pretty well known for its distinctive main characters. Love them or hate them, Celes, Cloud and Squall are pretty much part of the canon of classic gaming characters. By contrast, in FFXI, the player character is nothing more than the player's avatar in the game world. Sure, if you play the game's plot through to the conclusion, he's probably going to end up saving the world or something (I don't know for sure... I've not got there yet and people in-game are very good about not spoiling the story). However, the player character is far closer to what we're used to seeing in "Western" CRPGs, particularly those based around the AD&D rules; a blank-slate upon which the player can try to impose his own personality, so far as the rules of the game will allow. Of course, this is one respect in which MMORPG games go far beyond traditional CRPGs; while in, for example, Baldur's Gate, you might get three basic options for conversing with an NPC, one good, one neutral and one evil, communication between players in a MMORPG is almost completely unrestricted.
However, freedom of expression doesn't necessarily translate into a good plot. Square-Enix obviously put a lot of effort into making FFXI's plot as compelling as possible; there are a good few twists and your perceptions of some of the NPCs will shift dramatically over the course of a game. However, while a traditional Final Fantasy game will last around 40 hours, getting through the FFXI plot is likely to take closer to 40 days. Plot events are, by the very nature of the game, much more widely dispersed. For example, to do the plot mission required to gain rank 4, you'll need, at the very least, a party of characters of about level 35. To do the next mission, for rank 5, you'll need a party of approximately 10 levels higher. Moving from level 35 to level 45 will require several weeks for any player who can't stay in game every hour of every day. As a result, the plot sections seem few and far between and are never really going to form the bulk of the player's impressions of the game. There are lots of optional quests that expand the player's knowledge of the game-world, but they're not what I'd call "plot".
There are other potential options for doing plot in a MMORPG. One is to adopt the Eve Online approach, and have the devs write a plot based around the events that occur between groups of players in the game. Of course, I understand that this has been known to backfire spectacularly, when a group object to how the devs have portrayed them. You can also try to let the players write the plot as they go along. However, this relies on having a large number of players willing to put time and effort into creating the story and willing to accept roles for themselves that aren't "savior of mankind, ruler of the universe" and who actually have the talent to write. I suspect that a very small proportion of the current MMORPG player-base truly fits this bill.
To sum up, a plot can add a lot to a MMORPG and can be an important factor in enhancing a player's enjoyment of the game. However, it's never going to be among the most central parts of the MMORPG experience, on the basis of current designs, and what I'd say to any current MMORPG developers is that it's far more important to get the play mechanics and the player-economy right before worrying about plot.
Immersion and storytelling (Score:5, Funny)
Party member: "Shall we attack the castle now?"
You: "We shall rest here until darkness fall. We will attack after the darness has stroke."
Party member: "Yes sir."
Someone a mile away: "I l337! Looser! I am l337! You n00b!"
Re:Immersion and storytelling (Score:3, Insightful)
"Concentrate all fire on the forward apoc."
"OMGWTFPWN N00B, GO4 RAVEN 1ST!!!"
Stupid character names and dialog from stupid people are doing nothing but pulling the genre down for anyone who wants to actually have some sort of role playing related fun. At least back in the day on muds they'd be banned for not role playing.
Arse backwards (Score:2)
Where the RPG is not online the story is mostly already set before the player starts. Where the RPG is online and
DAOC approach (Score:1)
While I find the plot elements very weak in Mythic's game (the machanics are fun tho, especially player vs player raids), the idea of separating the two player types, and imposing a ban on those breaking charachter on a roleplaying server, shou
Re:He's wrong (Score:3, Insightful)
Sure, anyone can write a story. It takes talent to write a good story, especially good dialog. I don't know the qualifications of the guy interviewed, but if he has any prior professional writing experience I'd give him a far better chance that the average Schmoe.
As for the don't play for the story thing- umm, no. Other than in MMOs, noone
Re:He's wrong (Score:2)
CoH (Score:4, Interesting)
If you think about it, the story telling and expectancies in a universe are highly linked to this universe subject (heroic quest in med-fan, technological plot in sci-fi...). I'm simplifying, as you can have very different quests, but this is typically what the player is expecting.
Enters City of Heros. In this game the universe is based on the super heroes from comic books (but generic, no trade marks...). The way the story telling is intertweened with the universe is great: you get tips on the universe and the villains through contacts, those are "personnal" (for your character only), but you can ask for help from other heroes. And as in any comic books, your influence in the universe is actually both little and secretive (in most comics, no hero defeats an Archvillain definitly, it is just a passing victory. In the same way, your deeds are hardly known to the common person if you save the earth...).
This setup and universe is actually quite fitting to the MMO games. You have common parts (the streets, with rampant crimes as random encounters) and private parts (the missions), even some longer "story arcs" that can be completed as team only. It allows for both multiplayer, interaction and storytelling. The impact on the world can be seen as limited, but fits well in the setting.
The first MMO to really tempt me. And so far, no disapointment. I'm learning a bit more of the world every time i play and uncover some more plot. Best compromise between MMO and story i've seen so far.
Speaking from experience of an MMORPG that wasn't. (Score:2, Insightful)
This would be the same game that cancelled its MMORPG component after customers had already bought copies but the MMORPG component hadn't shipped yet?
Surely, to have a meaningful opinion on the subject, you should actually have been involved in the area you claim expertise on and actually stayed with it through to completion.
Next people like George W. Bush will think their failing to do their service in the Nation
Re:Speaking from experience of an MMORPG that wasn (Score:1)
IS in MMs (Score:2, Interesting)
1. Create a fixed set of non-interactive content. Everyone in the game world does the same quests, reads the same dialog, fights the same big bad guy for the same reason. Alternately, a few people get to participate interactively, while the vast majority simply watch (or show up for the epic battle).
2. Employ humans to create
Re:IS in MMs (Score:2)
Like in a 1 player game
Re:IS in MMs (Score:1)
My thinking was that quests would be dynamically generated. So there would be the implicit assumption that you'd never get the same quest as someone else.
However, that does bring up an interesting point, which is grouping. It would be nice if emergent stories could be tailored to the skill sets of everyone in the group. Maybe our hypothetical bee-hunter has grown to be immune to
Re:IS in MMs (Score:2)
by the way, i like this idea a lot. my first thought was, what if there was a dragon raid at some point, or bandit raids every so often. it's a great way to spread people
Dragon Empires -- Piers Anthony (Score:2, Informative)
Then other people keep fleshing it out more and more. It's actually the only MMORPG where I read all the backlog of fiction that goes along with it. This one is actually somewhat interesting, (even if it as well will have nothing to do with the gameplay.)
Writers are the key (Score:1, Insightful)
Granted their games are not MMORPGs but story driven CRPGs - from what they say on their forums, they are very proud about that. Also they got the IDGA Writing Excellence Award this year for KotOR.
I tried to find other companies that have the luxury(?) of employing full time wr
advancing the storyline(s) (Score:3, Interesting)
If so, you are only catering to the few hardcore players who are at the point where you can make that kind of difference. Everybody else is re-doing content they have already seen, discovered, and posted all about on their guild website a month or a year ago.
If not, you have a storyline like in Everquest. Why should I bother to read any of it when it no one can advance it?
I read that A Tale In the Desert had rules which the players could change. This is *like* a story, sort of, but more like politics.
I'm just not sure what a "story" would do for a MMORPG. Let me give an example. Please fix it, or offer a counter-example as to how a story would work.
Let's say there is a storyline where Orcs are in constant battle with the Elves in this wooded area. As a young elf, I go kill Orcs. "Storylines" like this abound. But I cannot change the world - and even if I could, it would already have been done. People have compared killing Orcs to social work, or street cleaning. Not exactly heroic, as a heroic effort would actually defeat the orcs once and for all and there wouldn't be anymore for the next generation of young elves to kill, ruining the game for them.
Perhaps instead we could have the orcs replaced later by, say, goblins? But again, no real progress is made: ultimately no real change occurs. If it did, it would ruin the game for the next generation.
Note: this is implemented (in a form) in Eq in the semi-infamous "Hollowshade Moore War" where various factions occupy a zone and you can defeat one to spawn more of another. It has technical problems (which involve GM intervention, which is very rare: unless you play on the US$40/month server "legends" in which case the GM will "reset" the war 24/7.)
We could have limited time quests, where say if 100 people do a quest then it ends and a new quest takes it's place. Again, it cuts out the later people for the benefit of the uber gamers now - and I'll bet you anything they will just redo the quest over and over to get to the new content and be the first to do so.
I would love to fix this problem and am interested in any ideas people may have.
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Re:advancing the storyline(s) (Score:2)
true. but if you expelled the orcs, you would have the problem of young elves having to go furthur from home to kill things and gain experience. that opens up new story lines for new players who weren't around for the defeating of the orcs. the world would have to be dynamic, such that if you clear the orc a
Re:advancing the storyline(s) (Score:2)
Step one: have level limited quests. Say, you have to be under level 20 to participate. You collect orc battleaxes, or whatever, and turn them into a quest NPC in the city. The more that are turned in, the more a small camp grows in the newbie hunting area, making it easier for newbies to run to the vendor and sell stuff. First you get a wandering vendor, then maybe a wandering guard, then maybe a fixed location vendor with a tent, then another vendor which sells more usef
Different media (Score:4, Interesting)
The biggest issue is that online games involve a level of participation you really don't find in many modern storytelling media. The closest you find are some interactive plays such as Tony and Tina's Wedding [tonylovestina.com] or some forms of oral storytelling, notably campfire stories or "egg timer" stories. And, while we have plenty of practice in evaluating traditional literature (I even have a degree in it!), there's less attention dedicated to more interactive forms. One of the more interesting treatments is Hamlet on the Holodeck
Personally, I think the different media are different enough that it becomes hard to really define online storytelling in traditional terms. Even the title of Lee Sheldon's new book includes the term "Character Development", which is often largely out of the hands of the developer in online virtual worlds; players will develop their own characters, and often not in the ways that would make the most interesting characters and stories. It's very difficult for traditional storytellers/writers to let the players take nearly complete control over the creative direction of the story.
Even in single-player games you run into problems, as one of the most important aspects of good storytelling is pacing, and the player's actions play a large part in the pacing of a game. Highly linear games tend to do good with pacing, but they tend to be restrictive. More open-ended games really focus on the interactivity of the game, but often at the expense of control over pacing. If the pacing isn't right, then that interesting character is going to be of less interest to the player.
That said, I don't think storytelling in online game is a lost cause. I think there will be interesting stories told, but I don't think they'll conform to the forms we've defined for traditional non-interactive media. I think we might see some cool new things, and I especially hope that some of them show up in my future projects.
My thoughts,
Storytelling, literature and theme parks (Score:2)
I think that MMORPGs are at such an early stage of development that we are still groping forwards to find how best to design them in order to provide a rich and immersive experience. I think we are moving a
Re:Storytelling, literature and theme parks (Score:2)
A few thoughts about your comment:
The final state is presumably a 'virtual world' where nothing is scripted and everything is the emergent result of interactions within that world.
That's one possibility that people have advocated. Personally, I think that this is not the likely outcome. Even at Disneyland, which you mention later, the experience is rigrously organized and highly polished. Since people are paying for the entertainment, there are certain expectations. Whi
Fast food fun (Score:1)
Re:Fast food fun (Score:2)
Well, sure, but we're talking about providing theme-park like experiences to people playing online. I also assume that we're talking about providing entertainment for several hundred thousand people rather than a few thousand people as the "single-digit number of developer" places do. These two aspects are what I'm focusing on in my previous post.
If Disneyland is like most places, the majority of their expenses come from sala
A story with a 1000 protagonists (Score:1)
Also, if we can interact and change the world, then we can affect (e.g. ruin) other people's experiences. If we can't, then it's just a blob of text.
Last, the people who ruin stories aren't just the almost-apocryphal "l33ts"; it's the silly people who won't go along with the story as presented, and instead want their own. It sounds good in theory, but in practice a bunch of people making up their own stories further divides and diminishes the game world.
-J