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First Person Shooters (Games) PC Games (Games) Entertainment Games

Doom 3 Reaches Gold Master, Due August 5th 753

Posted by simoniker from the happy-days-are-here-again dept.
Rogerpq3 writes "Yes, this is the official word that [long-awaited PC FPS] DOOM 3 has been code released and has been approved for manufacturing! According to the .plan file of id CEO Todd Hollenshead: 'We literally just hung up with Activision and have confirmed that our latest release candidate has been mutually approved and is finally GOLD. So, the next question is release dates. Retailers in the States will be allowed to pick up games starting at 12:01 AM on August 3rd. The official street date is actually August 5th in the U.S.A., but some of your favorite stores will probably have it early for those of you who have to have it first. Check with your local retailer for that information... [Internationally] the UK will probably get it first, on or about August 6th. Everywhere else will probably be Friday, August 13th (cue Twilight Zone Theme) or close to that date, with just a few exceptions (e.g. Russia and Poland)'."
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Doom 3 Reaches Gold Master, Due August 5th More

Doom 3 Reaches Gold Master, Due August 5th

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  • Ah... I can't... oh no... (Score:5, Funny)

    by TWooster ( 696270 ) <twooster@NOSpAM.gmail.com> on Wednesday July 14, 2004 @01:07PM (#9698901)
    Damn, there goes the $50 I lost on the bet that Duke Nukem would come out first. :(

    • Re:Ah... I can't... oh no... (Score:4, Funny)

      by tolan-b ( 230077 ) on Wednesday July 14, 2004 @01:09PM (#9698940)
      You never know, they might have been waiting for this announcement just so they could trump Doom3 by a day!
      If only I could afford a graphics card to actually run Doom on :/

    • Re:Ah... I can't... oh no... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Rei ( 128717 ) on Wednesday July 14, 2004 @01:20PM (#9699110) Homepage
      You can take consolation in the fact that, when you buy Doom 3, you're supporting ameteur rocketry. ;)

    • Re:Ah... I can't... oh no... (Score:4, Informative)

      by ScottGant ( 642590 ) <scott_gant@sbcgl ... minus herbivore> on Wednesday July 14, 2004 @01:30PM (#9699246) Homepage
      Lets take a look at some dates...to place things in perspecive:

      1993: Doom released
      1994: Doom II released

      1996: Duke Nukem 3D 1.0 came out using modified Doom II engine

      1996: Quake released
      1997: Quake II released
      1999: Quake III released
      2004: Doom III released.

      So, Id's had 6 major releases in the past 11 years and in the time that 3D Realms has been working on ONE Duke Nukem Forever, Id has had 4 whole games come out.

      Let's face it folks, Duke Nukem Forever isn't coming out. 8 years for one game?
      • you forgot Return to Castle Wolfenstein
      • Are you sure Duke3D was a modified Doom 2 engine? I thought they specially developed their own and trumpeted is as a Doom-beater.

        I remember the rumours that LucasArts had pulled the Doom engine apart to develop Dark Forces.

      • Re:Ah... I can't... oh no... (Score:5, Informative)

        by ischorr ( 657205 ) on Wednesday July 14, 2004 @01:45PM (#9699411)
        1996: Duke Nukem 3D 1.0 came out using modified Doom II engine

        No, Duke3d used a engine developed completely independent of Id, called "BUILD". It was much closer in capabilities to the Quake engine than to the Doom II engine, though many (most?) people considered it inferior to the Quake engine.

        See Planet Duke [planetduke.com] for details.

        • Re:Ah... I can't... oh no... (Score:5, Insightful)

          by Idealius ( 688975 ) * on Wednesday July 14, 2004 @02:08PM (#9699652) Journal
          Actually, that's a bit misguided.

          It really is more related to the Doom engine in design because Quake was "real 3D" where as the Doom/Build engines were basically hacks which is why they ran so much faster.

          For instance, it was really a challenge for the developer of the Build engine to have support of a room directly above another room.

          Build/Doom engines are raycasters. That's why when you looked up or down (or 3rd-person mode) in the Build/Doom engines walls looked skewed.

          The Quake engine was actual 3D and never had this problem.

          But, I will say that Duke 3D and Quake came out about the same time and were direct competitors.

          • Re:Ah... I can't... oh no... (Score:4, Interesting)

            by WuphonsReach ( 684551 ) on Wednesday July 14, 2004 @03:46PM (#9700855)
            For instance, it was really a challenge for the developer of the Build engine to have support of a room directly above another room.

            I don't remember any level designs in Duke Nukem 3D where there were rooms directly above other rooms. (In fact, I'm not sure it was possible at all given the way that the builder worked.)

            Instead, they would be clever and use teleport to move the user to a different part of the grid where the "upper" room would be (but you wouldn't be able to see out of that upper room). Multi-level towers were usually just built at multiple spots on the world grid with teleports between the levels.

            Or they'd play around with the layout so that after running around in a big circle, it felt like you were above the other room.

            Sure, it wasn't real 3D, but it was extremely easy to bang out levels since you weren't trying to layout 3D objects without all of the tools of a 3D CAD program. With the builder, you could map out your level design in 2D, then you just went in and changed your floor/ceiling heights to be whatever you wanted. (Duke 3D didn't have "outdoors", just textures that sorta looked like they were outdoors.)

            Designing Quake's 3D levels, OTOH, was definitely an order of magnitude more difficult, and you really had to plan ahead. (I'd guess that more modern tools are easier to use... this was back in the 1997-1999 timeframe.)

            • Re:Ah... I can't... oh no... (Score:4, Interesting)

              by Nurgled ( 63197 ) on Wednesday July 14, 2004 @04:09PM (#9701143)

              For the sake of adding a bit more info to your explanation...

              In later games using Duke's BUILD engine (written by then-teen-programmer Ken Silverman [advsys.net]) the developers make the "room-over-room" illusion even better by simply doing two render passes. If you are in the upper part, then the first render pass will be the lower room, which since you are outside it doesn't include the ceiling, and then the second render pass renders the upper room using a null texture for the floor making it transparent. You had to line it all up quite carefully, but you could then get a room-above-room illusion that you can actually see, which was pretty neat.

              Ken also later added support for voxel (volume pixel) objects, allowing true 3D objects to take the place of selected in-world sprites, although that implementation used low-res voxels so they looked a little blocky.

          • Build/Doom engines are raycasters. That's why when you looked up or down (or 3rd-person mode) in the Build/Doom engines walls looked skewed.

            Wow, even in this day and age, even after the source was released, slashdotters still sprout this old axim. I can't speak for the build engine, but doom was not a raycaster (wolf was), it was a polygon renderer, with bsp-based culling and sorting. The reason the look up-look down was skewed is because the polygons were never meant to be rotated on the x/z axes, and so

      • Re:Ah... I can't... oh no... (Score:5, Informative)

        by thrash242 ( 697169 ) on Wednesday July 14, 2004 @01:55PM (#9699509)
        Duke Nukem 3D did not have a modified Doom Engine. It was built on Ken Silverman's Build engine along with Shadow Warrior and Blood.

      • Re:Ah... I can't... oh no... (Score:4, Informative)

        by AceMarkE ( 154966 ) on Wednesday July 14, 2004 @02:01PM (#9699586)
        Bit of a correction... Duke3D used the Build Engine, created by a guy named Ken Silverman, who was also responsible for an _old_ shareware game by the name of Ken's Labyrinth. Info on the history of the engine is available from Ken himself here [advsys.net]. He's also got several other useful utilities, such as an excellent PNG optimizer.
      • "So, Id's had 6 major releases in the past 11 years and in the time that 3D Realms has been working on ONE Duke Nukem Forever, Id has had 4 whole games come out."

        Well let's see here... There have been around 13 releases of various Duke Nukem games since 1991 right up until 2004, not counting DNF.

        Not to mention all of the other games that 3D Realms put out (Shadow Warrior, Wolfenstein 3D, Raptor, BioMenace, Max Payne 1/2 etc.). So no, they've been working on far more than just Duke Nukem Forever for 8 ye

        • Shadow Warrior: I'll give you this one, 3DRealms made it.
          Wolfenstein 3D: WOLFENSTEIN! Are you nuts, this is the game that put iD on the map before 3D Realms was a speckle in Miller's eye. Maybe they own the rights now or something, but credit where credit is due.
          Max Payne 1/2: Developed by the boys at Remedy way over in Finland. Can't really use this as a excuse for DNF never getting done.

          I really don't see why people are waiting for DNF in the first place. Sure, Duke3D was sort of fun in it's time, I us
      • "Let's face it folks, Duke Nukem Forever isn't coming out. 8 years for one game?"

        Of course it is.

        You just have to wait Forever....

      • Relax. (Score:3, Funny)

        by pragma_x ( 644215 )
        I head a rumor that it's being shrink-wrapped and bundled along with MS Longhorn. ;)

      • Re:Ah... I can't... oh no... (Score:5, Funny)

        by nathanh ( 1214 ) on Thursday July 15, 2004 @05:40AM (#9705574) Homepage
        1993: Doom released
        1994: Doom II released
        1996: Quake released
        1997: Quake II released
        1999: Quake III released

        Oh, I've got a better history.

        1993: Doom released
        1 month later I go broke buying a 486
        1994: Doom II released
        1 month later I go broke buying a better 486
        1996: Quake released
        1 month later I go broke buying a Pentium
        1997: Quake II released
        1 month later I go broke buying a Pentium MMX
        1999: Quake III released
        1 month later I go broke buying a Celeron

        id Software is the bane of my existence. Curse you Carmack!

  • In other news... (Score:4, Funny)

    by Nos. ( 179609 ) <andrew@nOSPAm.thekerrs.ca> on Wednesday July 14, 2004 @01:07PM (#9698905) Homepage
    Hell has frozen over and pigs have learned to fly

  • Now that's a bright idea (Score:5, Funny)

    by sulli ( 195030 ) * on Wednesday July 14, 2004 @01:08PM (#9698924) Journal
    linking to a finger server. You'd think someone could have put the text on a website or something.

  • Hey boss... (Score:5, Funny)

    by DaHat ( 247651 ) on Wednesday July 14, 2004 @01:09PM (#9698926)
    Just to let you know... Starting August 5th... I will not be coming into work for a week or two because of... personal reasons. If it is an emergency and you need me to come in... do not expect me to be showered, well fed or able to adapt to bright lights.

    Sincerely,
    Your groveling employee.

    • Too bad... (Score:5, Funny)

      by Rayonic ( 462789 ) on Wednesday July 14, 2004 @01:15PM (#9699051) Homepage Journal
      Looks like you'll miss the office-wide lan party.

      Nope, you can't take it back. I've already scheduled your vacation into the system.

      - Your Boss

    • Re:Hey boss... (Score:5, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 14, 2004 @01:30PM (#9699236)
      Tell your boss you are fighting personal Demons
    • A friend from my last job and I have already planned to take 2-3 days off when Halo2 comes out for the X-box...his girlfriend and my wife just don't realize it yet...

      {ring} {ring}
      ME: {checks caller ID} @#!&, hit the mute button. it's my wife...
      Wife: What time will you be home from work dear?
      Me: Honey, we're swamped, I'll have to work late tonight...
      Wife: Ok dear, see you when you get home. Bye. {hangs up}
      Me: Ok, un-mute. WTF!!!! You team-killing-fucktard!!!!!!

  • Oh sweet honey yes (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 14, 2004 @01:09PM (#9698930)
    It's all falling into place.

    Doom 3.
    Soon Half-life 2.
    The second coming of Jesus.

    And then - Duke Nukem Forever will at last be mine!

    • Re:Oh sweet honey yes (Score:5, Funny)

      by suso ( 153703 ) on Wednesday July 14, 2004 @02:43PM (#9700035) Journal

      The second coming of Jesus.

      I haven't heard about that one. Who is publishing it? Does anyone have any screenshots?

    • Soon Half-life 2.

      Why don't they just call it "Whole Life"?

      The second coming of Jesus.

      Sorry, there will be no second coming in the age of instant international media. There will be no saintly 'miracles', either, so there will be no more 'legitimate' saints.

  • The end of the universe is nigh.... (Score:4, Funny)

    by PierceLabs ( 549351 ) on Wednesday July 14, 2004 @01:09PM (#9698939)
    and I wanted to have kids :( This isn't fair... all that time wasted...

  • Awesome! (Score:5, Informative)

    by th1ckasabr1ck ( 752151 ) on Wednesday July 14, 2004 @01:09PM (#9698945)
    There's also a review in the new PC Gamer, and from what they write the game is everything we expected and then some. Here are a few exerpts:

    "...we're here to tell you that Doom 3 is not only done, it's absolutely mind-blowing."

    "You are basically subjecting yourself to a 20 hour cardiac episode."

    "...you will never experience a dull moment. Or even a less than mesmerizing one."

    "Doom 3 is a masterpiece of art form - staying true to the frantic legacy of the Doom series, while ambitiously reaching new heights and bashing down the doors of the next generation of PC shooter. The bar is raised."

    I can't wait to get my hands on a copy!

  • Editor included? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Rayonic ( 462789 ) on Wednesday July 14, 2004 @01:10PM (#9698954) Homepage Journal
    I seem to have missed the part about the level editor. Are they including it in the box, or will they release it later?

    The bar has been raised with regards to packaged content editors, after all. Heck, the Morrowind editing tools would let you re-create the entire game!

    • Re:Editor included? (Score:5, Informative)

      by KDR_11k ( 778916 ) on Wednesday July 14, 2004 @01:21PM (#9699123)
      All the editors (except maybe Photoshop and Maya) are included in the game itself. You probably can switch between the map editor and game on the fly, changing the level, pressing a key and seeing it all in action. Not the first game ever to do this (e.g. the Battlezone action RTS had a similar stryle of level editing), but a welcome addition, nonetheless.
      • The current )third party editors (such as GTKRadiant) will still make a release for Doom 3, despite the in-game editor.

        Giving id's previous record of releasing tools which all lacked options/user friendlyness, i think this is a good move (Standard Radiant is pure hell to work with, compared to, for example, GTKRadiant.)

        And I'm not too sure bout this, but I also think mappers don't have to compile their .map to .bsp , anymore ( a -very- timeconsuming process) as the data in the .map file will be generate

  • Locked and Loaded (Score:4, Informative)

    by z0ink ( 572154 ) on Wednesday July 14, 2004 @01:10PM (#9698959)
    yes, but will it run on linux .....

    YES! A hit title that runs on linux right out of the box. Thank you ID Software!
    • Feb 29 22:51:12 <TTimo> heh .. nah I just said it was unlikely the linux binaries would be on the windows CD

      As he specifically specified win32 when he mentioned the "gone gold" message (in the same chan), I'd assume it's Windows-only for the moment...

  • Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Wednesday July 14, 2004 @01:10PM (#9698960)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • amazon (Score:4, Informative)

    by tuanjim_2001 ( 534921 ) <[lordjim] [at] [gmail.com]> on Wednesday July 14, 2004 @01:11PM (#9698970)
    I know that amazon.com had it for pre order a few days ago. For those who give a crap: here [amazon.com] it is.

  • Hey stupid (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 14, 2004 @01:11PM (#9698974)
    Look, if you want to combat piracy, release it on the same date world-wide. This one-week-later crap will only result in lots of illegal copies in "late" countries.
    • I thought of the exact same thing when I read this in the summary:

      "The official street date is actually August 5th in the U.S.A.,...with just a few exceptions (e.g. Russia and Poland)'."

      The first thing I thought was:

      (e.g. Russia and Poland, which will have bootleg copies including jacket art available tomorrow at 6 AM local time)."

    • Re:Hey stupid (Score:4, Informative)

      by guido1 ( 108876 ) on Wednesday July 14, 2004 @03:10PM (#9700400)
      Parent has such an ironic subject line...

      From TFA [shacknews.com],
      "Internationally, the game will take a few more days to make it to the store shelves. The UK will probably get it first, on or about August 6th. Everywhere else will probably be Friday, August 13th (que Twilight Zone Theme) or close to that date, with just a few exceptions (e.g. Russia and Poland). This isn't because we don't have love for you folks outside the U.S., but the localization and manufacturing process takes a bit longer outside the U.S. where we will have JVC run 24/7 to get the units built. I guess the European manufacturers prefer to give their employees nights and weekends off. Go figure! "

  • very cool (Score:5, Interesting)

    by circletimessquare ( 444983 ) <circletimessquar ... m ['gma' in gap]> on Wednesday July 14, 2004 @01:12PM (#9698994) Homepage Journal
    it's been awhile since i heard an imp gurgle, or a bfg go bzzzt...

    do you think iddqd will still work? ;-)

  • osx version? (Score:5, Funny)

    by asv108 ( 141455 ) <asvNO@SPAMivoss.com> on Wednesday July 14, 2004 @01:13PM (#9699004) Homepage Journal
    Is there any word on a port to OSX?

  • First Doom3 review (Score:5, Interesting)

    by hoferbr ( 707935 ) on Wednesday July 14, 2004 @01:14PM (#9699019)
    PC Gamer magazine reviewed Doom3 in its newest edition and gave the game a 94%.
    Here is an interesting post [nvnews.net] in the nvNews boards, with the full review, hardware and multiplayer details
  • I would seriously like to see any statistics on the amount of PC hardware that is sold due to the arrival of games like Doom 3 / Half Life 2 / etc. Personally, I have been waiting for the last 2 years to upgrade, specifically for this game. My system has been okay for everything else I need to do, so it just didn't make sense to go out and build a system, knowing full well that I will be behind the tech curve when this games comes out.

    I know some will think I am an idiot, but I am an unapologetic id fan. I have played most other FPS games out there, and id just seems to get the "feel" of FPS down to a science. The instant snap is perfect.

    I just wish they had included cooperative mode, like in the original Doom. Some of my best gaming experiences were all night coop Doom on nightmare mode. Good times.

    Todd

  • Requirements (Score:5, Informative)

    by th1ckasabr1ck ( 752151 ) on Wednesday July 14, 2004 @01:14PM (#9699027)
    System Requirements - Recommended by PC Gamer:

    2GHz CPU 512 MB Ram Radeon 9800 5-Channel Audio

    Supported Graphics Cards: Ge-Force 4 MX Ge-Force 3 Ge-Force 4 Titanium Ge-Force FX (and higher) ATI 8500, 9000 (and higher)

  • Call Work.... (Score:5, Funny)

    by xojins ( 755647 ) on Wednesday July 14, 2004 @01:17PM (#9699069)
    hmm, lets figure this out... 1) Brand new gaming rig $1200 2) 2 Weeks of vacation time $3000 3) Using up all my vacation time starting Aug 3 and not being able to take time off to help my wife with our son who is expected in Sept and then getting a call from her divorce lawyer, PRICELESS wow...id games took so much of my life and now they are gonna take my marriage. btw, thanks for the free shipping!

  • Reviews and Box Quotes (Score:5, Interesting)

    by syr ( 647840 ) on Wednesday July 14, 2004 @01:19PM (#9699091)
    So far only one source has reviewed Doom3. PC Gamer gave the game an 94%, but how trustworthy can that be when they had the exclusive and have a quote on the box?

    Over on GameTab you can see the large version of the game box and information on the PC Gamer review [gametab.com]. Only time will tell whether the other reviews and gamers fall in line with PC Gamer's opinion.

  • I think they've got that backwards (Score:5, Funny)

    by h_jurvanen ( 161929 ) on Wednesday July 14, 2004 @01:20PM (#9699106)
    Everywhere else will probably be Friday, August 13th [...] with just a few exceptions (e.g. Russia and Poland)

    I guarantee you that it will be available on every street corner in Russia and Poland long before it is released anywhere else.

  • I'm stunned. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by julesh ( 229690 ) on Wednesday July 14, 2004 @01:23PM (#9699150)
    I thought I'd never see another day like this one.

    No, not the release of Doom 3. To quote the poster:

    According to the .plan file of id CEO Todd Hollenshead

    Somebody's actually running a finger daemon, and it does more than just say "finger disabled for privacy reasons, try sending an e-mail".

    • Re:I'm stunned. (Score:5, Funny)

      by cant_get_a_good_nick ( 172131 ) on Wednesday July 14, 2004 @01:32PM (#9699270)
      I saw this too, I guess we've come a long way since worrying about the Morris worm.

      My favorite finger story: I'm working an employment fair at my old University, and a cute girl comes over and gives her resume. It's light, we placed it in the "to be made into cool paper airplanes as we pray to Bernoulli" but I noticed she had finger: mane@university.edu on her resume. I tried it, and her .plan said "blah blah, thanks for fingering me!!" Maybe we shoulda hired her.

  • What about Germany? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by KDR_11k ( 778916 ) on Wednesday July 14, 2004 @01:28PM (#9699218)
    Will this even be released in Germany and if, can I have a date? I mean, it'll probably indexed because it's by iD Software (hey, it's a tradition!) so I doubt I'll hear about the release in any news outlets (because bringing news on indexed titles is advertising them and therefore illegal... D'Oh!). Means I'll need to know about it from a foreign source.

  • Doom3 Review out (Score:5, Informative)

    by obsid1an ( 665888 ) <obsidianNO@SPAMmchsi.com> on Wednesday July 14, 2004 @01:41PM (#9699370)
    Check it out at nV News. [nvnews.net]

  • What about the DEMO? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Mitleid ( 734193 ) on Wednesday July 14, 2004 @02:25PM (#9699846)
    This is an interesting display in how much we've let our standards go in regards to gaming. While there is all this salivating over the fact that DOOM III is finally fucking done, I've yet to hear any mention about a possible demo release. I was too young to experience it firsthand, but I recall hearing about BBS systems and FTPs being brought to a complete standstill when the original shareware copy of DOOM was released back in 93 or 94 as everyone tried to get their grubby little paws on it. Who cares if the final version has gone gold? As gamers it's only fair that we're able to download a demo before we trust the words of a "exclusive" review. Games like this get hyped for so long, and the pre-order BS get's pushed down your throat everytime you step into a GameStop, that it seems no game is sold on merit anymore. Personally I won't be impressed with anything until I can actually play a little taste of the game without having to pay id a cent.

  • DOOM3 will ruin the modern world economy for weeks (Score:5, Funny)

    by IronChefMorimoto ( 691038 ) on Wednesday July 14, 2004 @02:51PM (#9700161)

    I predict that the release of this game will have so many computer geeks, nerds, gamers, etc. (I'm in all those categories) out of the office for most of August that the following will happen:

    1. backups will be left undone; servers worldwide will fail and not come back up; electronic commerce as we know it will halt
    2. viruses will run rampant; OS patches and virus definitions will remain uninstalled
    3. traffic management systems will be left unattended; millions will die in horrible car accidents
    4. Apple will go out of business; its approx. 4% market share will dwindle as Mac users realize that an OS X native version of DOOM3 isn't being released
    5. skeletons will be spotted via the International Space Station cameras around mid-September; mission control specialists will have ignored their pleas for a replacement crew/supply ship for 6+ weeks
    6. Al Qaeda will blow up 7 buildings, resulting in the deaths of the elderly, women, and children; teenage and 20-40-something males will mysteriously escape the carnage by sheer absenteeism (gamer chicks will also escape -- we're not all men)
    7. first semester classes around the world will be canceled; not enough students will show to class to occupy faculty members' time
    8. divorce will skyrocket to millions/day within the first week of DOOM3's release

    IronChefMorimoto

  • What about SMP? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Dr. Manhattan ( 29720 ) <sorceror171@nOsPAM.gmail.com> on Wednesday July 14, 2004 @03:00PM (#9700278) Homepage
    Does any major commercial game these days make any good use out of dual-CPU systems? Or do they still just use one processor?

  • it's on cnn too (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Magius_AR ( 198796 ) on Wednesday July 14, 2004 @04:01PM (#9701054)
    CNN article [cnn.com] One of my personal peeves is addressed in the CNN article:

    The game will ship on either three or four CDs. Despite the hopes of hard-core gamers, though, there will not be a DVD version of the game, id Software CEO Todd Hollenshead told CNN/Money.

    "There's just not a compelling reason," he said, taking a break from a company celebration.

    "I know some gamers are hoping to use the DVD players on their machines for something other than watching movies, but there are downsides," he said. "For us the cost of the goods and the cost of the replication and having to make two masters just isn't worth it."

    Compelling reason? TWO masters? Man, everyone and their mother has a DVD drive in their comp nowadays. How about doing a DVD ONLY release. Backwards compatibility is great and all, but frankly if you can't afford 20 bucks for a DVD drive and/or don't have one by now, you probably wouldn't buy this game in the first place.

    What's the damn holdup with the transition to DVD games? I'm fed up with this Multi-CD crap.

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