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PC Games (Games) Entertainment Games

Game Publishers Doing More Damage than Pirates? 75

Posted by simoniker from the controversial dept.
thenextpresident writes "Over on JoeUser.com, there is an interesting article, from the creator of the previously mentioned TotalGaming.net subscription service, that discusses two things: the PC game market vs the console market, and how one game developer views game publishers as a bigger problem than the software "pirates". "So don't talk to me about piracy. It's not the pirates that have ripped us off of hundreds of thousands in lost royalties. It's been "Real businesses" doing that thank you very much. The position of royalty eating parasite has already been taken." He also digs into all the problems PC games have: usually being buggy on release, CD keys, patches (and more patches), hard drive space while still requiring the CD be in the drive. All together, a really interesting look at the game industry from just one developer."
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Game Publishers Doing More Damage than Pirates? More

Game Publishers Doing More Damage than Pirates?

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  • Copy Protection (Score:5, Insightful)

    by volteface ( 798935 ) on Friday July 23, 2004 @06:56PM (#9785343)
    Copy protection hurts legitimate users more than it helps the software developers. When users who legitimately buy games have trouble playing them, while pirates can simply crack the game (and they can, pretty much no matter what you do) and play it more easily than the legitimate buyers, you know you need to step back and re-evaluate your copy protection policy. Most legit users end up cracking the game anyway, just for simplicity's sake. At least UT2K4's patch removed the CD checking.

    It doesn't even stop at games. I can't play Let It Be...Naked by The Beatles in any CD player I own because of the copy protection. There's even a disclaimer on the back stating that it may not work in all CD equipment. However, I'm sure you could download the entire album in 10 minutes if you wanted to.

    • Re:Copy Protection (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Micro$will ( 592938 ) on Friday July 23, 2004 @11:07PM (#9786949) Homepage Journal
      I've had this same issue numerous times, most recently with Painkiller and Thief 3. My "favorite" is the buggy installers that don't take the cd check into account. Install the disks in order, then for some braindead reason the installer asks for disk 1 again before completing the install. Alrighty, I do it, it finishes, then when I play, instead of "Insert Game Disk" or something, it either gives me some cryptic error message, or it accuses me of using a backup. Putting in the last disk solves the problem, but it's quite annoying.

    • Re:Copy Protection (Score:4, Informative)

      by Mumbly_Joe6432 ( 789265 ) on Friday July 23, 2004 @11:10PM (#9786962)
      Basically, companies need to make the prices and convenience more appealing to the buyer- just like in any other industry. I would have to argue that software prices are amazingly high; it does take a lot of work to create them, but if everyone was to actually pay for all of the software they use I don't think that nearly as many people would be able to afford a computer at home, or want to. I've seen the most honest people I know take home a cd from work,say microsoft office, and quite frankly, I don't blame them.

      It is true that many software companies are shooting themselves in the foot by using too much protection, but the root of the problem stems from the buyer being unwilling to pay the price. The problem simply builds on itself when enough buyers feel this way and unite to make cracks and even whole programs easier to aquire than a purchased version of the program.

      Some major reforms are going to be made in the future concerning how we buy software/music. I'm willing accept the revolution, as long as the revolution doesn't have irresponsibly priced products.

    • Re:Copy Protection (Score:2, Interesting)

      by timftbf ( 48204 )
      Exactly, and this is the same reason copy protection is going to hurt the music industry more than help it in the long run too.

      People - regular people, not just geeks, are buying MP3 players. Lots of them. They want to turn their CDs into MP3s. If they can't press the "make MP3s" button on whatever software they're using, they're going to turn to their techie friends, and *they* are more than likely going to introduce them to the wonders of file sharing. (The CDs *will* be available on these services,

    • Re:Copy Protection (Score:2, Interesting)

      by GuyWithLag ( 621929 )
      Actual example: I bought SimCity 4 as a present for my fiancee. After installation the game won't run as it claims that it can't find the original CD. After much serching, googling and fiddling, it looks like the friggin copy protection requires that you have a CD-ROM drive to play the game on. Not a DVD-ROM, not a CD-RW, but an actual CD-ROM - who buys these things anymore?

      I actuall had to find a no-cd crack to play the (bought!) game....

    • Couldn't agree more. The last three games I've bought won't run on my PC because of copy protection issues. A forth only ran because I installed a completely clean copy of Win98, but the sound didn't work until I downloaded a large patch. And of course, once opened, no store will accept the game back.

      I won't buy a game anymore unless I know that I can download and run a cracked version, so that I know I can actually realise my investment.

  • Looks like the developers are involved in the DP of all time - boned by the publishers and the players. Almost makes me wonder why they bother.

  • I don't deal with CD protection (Score:5, Insightful)

    by linzeal ( 197905 ) on Friday July 23, 2004 @07:19PM (#9785561) Journal
    Since I mostly play 1st person games that require game copy protection and the online games usually have a code instead I use GameCopyWorld [gamecopyworld.com], for all my 'tweaked' exe's.

    When I lost my CD to Armed and Dangerous [amazon.com] awhile back it really got me looking for a legitamate place where people who bought software and wish to not have to lug out a CD each time they want to play a different game could go. Are there any other place besides gamecopyworld that are like that? I do not want to download any EXE from some random P2P user.

    • MegaGames is the best crack site I've seen. Go to the "Game Fixes" section. (I guess they have to be euphemistic for legal reasons or something.)

      Rob
    • Another option would be to use a program like Alcohol 120% that lets you use cd images as virtual drives. Create a new drive, load it with an image from your hard drive, and go. This has the added benefit of canceling that annoying wait while the drive spins up.
      • I've been using similar software, Daemon Tools [daemon-tools.cc], for a number of years now, and it's worked pretty flawlessly (well, except when I realize that I have a 6 GB hard drive, and no room for a bunch of CD images laying around...).

        One obvious advantage to Daemon Tools is that it's free.
        The other obvious advantage is that the website used to have on its front page, in large, friendly, letters, "THERE IS NO ILLEGAL MATERIAL ON THIS WEBSITE." It's not quite as reassuring as "DON'T PANIC," but ... well, actually it's

  • disagree (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    In 15 years, I have never NOT bought a game because it had a copy protection. In 15 years, I returned 1 game because of a copy protection issue, but in the same 15 years, I also returned about 10 games for being buggy and unplayable.

    Games released in bad condition, my last experience - Temple of Elemental Evil are hurting the industry FAR more than any copy protection issue, as much as the casual pirate would like it to be otherwise. Yes, the article has a point, publishers DO hurt game sales, but mainly b

  • Great! (Score:4, Funny)

    by Lu Xun ( 615093 ) on Friday July 23, 2004 @07:26PM (#9785624)
    They should just shut down all the publishers and let the pirates pirate each-other. They can fund new games with the pr0n-ad revenue they get from their sites.
    • You know, when you stop and think about, is the world really a better place because of new games being created? I mean, suppose no one EVER got paid for making games, all there was to play were old games, new mods for old games, and new but not-quite-as good open source engines. Would that really be so terrible? Is it possible that the thousands/millions of games we have already are good enough?

  • So true (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Lisandro ( 799651 ) on Friday July 23, 2004 @07:29PM (#9785652)
    Sadly, this guy has a point. Something's not right when a game you just downloaded off Kazaa is less of a hassle to play than the same game off the box. The "copy protection" craze has gone to far; no matter what, digital content of any kind *will* be copied and used illegally. You just can't get arround it, CD-Key, DMCA, Dongles, or whatever. Instead of fighting an uphill battle, software publishers should focus on making the game good enough so people will happily buy it. As this guy said, this is rarely the case nowadays.

    As for the patching issues, i didn't mind when patches were minor or to improve the overall experience, but most PC games are so buggy and slow lately that patching is mandatory. Again, if the product needs work, move the deadlines forward a bit and focus on delivering a quality product.

    • Re:So true (Score:4, Informative)

      by Sigma 7 ( 266129 ) on Friday July 23, 2004 @10:58PM (#9786912)
      Something's not right when a game you just downloaded off Kazaa is less of a hassle to play than the same game off the box. The "copy protection" craze has gone to far; no matter what, digital content of any kind *will* be copied and used illegally. You just can't get arround it, CD-Key, DMCA, Dongles, or whatever.


      Actually, CD-Keys (and other subscription style software) are one of the few protection systems that work. They are very effective at restricing the pirate's ability to use online portions of the game, if it is implemented correctly. (i.e. the game only works if there the CD-Key has been printed at the press.)

      Even though there are alternate servers or cracks to allow bypassing the CD-Check, not many people use them, and as a result, the pirate is placed in a smaller group of servers or players.

      However, I do agree that other forms of protection can be eventually broken - if the system trusts the client at all, than it is vulnerable.
      • Stardock's system for Galactic Civilizations works out quite well - not only do they only send keys via email (or box, but I've never seen a GalCiv box), but you can only download updates if you're a registered user.
      • CD keys are a bit too effective. Most games have no online community to speak of because the number of players with a key and the game installed drops rapidly after a few months. This affects sales too because the lack of an online community becomes a reason not to buy the game pretty soon after its release. Games like quake 1 and 2 were largely driven by online gaming and continued to sell well long after the release. The same goes for the earlier versions of unreal & unreal tournament.
      • They work when somebody actually spends some time on properly testing them.

        I bought Neverwinter Nights and the first expansion recently. The CD key on the NWN package is printed with absolutely worst font ever. 'A' and 'R', and 'D', '0' and 'O' look the same. Took me about 16 tries to finally get it right.

        Fortunately, the expansion had a saner font, but then it turned out they forgot to package the ambient sounds on the CD.

  • I've often wondered (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Thedalek ( 473015 ) on Friday July 23, 2004 @07:31PM (#9785678)
    Whenever I've seen those figures of "The game industry lost x kajillion dollars last year to evil pirates," I wind up asking myself "How does that figure stack up to money spent on failed advertising, ineffective copy protection, or some useless novelty packaging feature? How about bloated development costs due to a rushed schedule?"

    But then again, I'm not buying the bulk of these games, so I must be an evil pirate.

    All that said, the article doesn't really address much. Mostly it's little "fight the power" and "I'm for the little guy" throwaway remarks interspersed with plugs for products. Shame about Strategy First not paying royalties. I wanted to like them.

    • Re:I've often wondered (Score:5, Informative)

      by Pluvius ( 734915 ) <pluvius3 AT gmail DOT com> on Friday July 23, 2004 @08:10PM (#9785957) Journal
      But then again, I'm not buying the bulk of these games, so I must be an evil pirate.

      Since the loss estimates are always based on "potential" sales minus costs instead of actual sales minus costs, you probably are an "evil pirate" in the industry's eyes.

      Rob
      • Lemme get this straight...

        Step 1 : Set a high, you-damned-well-know-its-unreachable "potential" sales estimate
        Step 2 : Minus costs
        Step 3 : ???
        Step 4 : Sue pirates and drain more money from developers
        Step 5 : Profit!

        • Re:I've often wondered (Score:3, Interesting)

          by Pluvius ( 734915 )
          I actually should've said "'potential' sales minus actual sales." For example, if a publisher set a potential of $100 million but only sold $70 million, he would say that he lost $30 million to pirates, even if he actually made, say, $50 million (by actual sales minus $20 million in costs) in reality.

          But yeah, what you said is basically right.

          Rob
        • Sounds like the RIAA. Remarkably so.
      • "Since the loss estimates are always based on "potential" sales minus costs instead of actual sales minus costs, you probably are an "evil pirate" in the industry's eyes."

        Gotta wonder what the 'potential sales' really are if somebody's willing to jump through the hoops to find, download, and install a game that could potentially have a trojan or something in it instead of simply going to buy it.

        Frankly, I think legitimate demo downloads are the best anti-piracy measure. Sadly, it's all too often that th
        • This is exactly how i feel. If someone is willing to download a game, he *will* download it. Why even count it as a 'potential sale'? In a way, it's a price of doing buisness for the game industry, because the moment a CP scheme annoys a legal customer, is over the line, and the truth is it won't really solve much of the problem. Having to occupy the CD player with a game disc after installing 5gb is insane.
          In fact, would it hurt sales a lot if the game was released without CP? If the same game came in
        • Frankly, I think legitimate demo downloads are the best anti-piracy measure.

          The problem with demos is that they don't tend to give the player a good impression of the full game. The FF8 demo I played way-back-when, for instance, was horrible, especially compared to the actual game. The only demo I can think of that worked was Starsiege: Tribes, and that's mainly because it was an online-only game.

          The best way to counter piracy would be to do what application developers do: Give your customers a free t

  • Galactic Civilizations (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Prien715 ( 251944 ) <agnosticpope.gmail@com> on Friday July 23, 2004 @09:02PM (#9786258) Journal
    I really liked the game, it's the most retro game I've seen as far as copy protection (was released last year, with a decent ammount of critical acclaim). I could burn the CD without problems and the game didn't even require the CD in the drive to play it. That said, it did have a CD key, which I don't mind so much. And although the game was stable on release, they added NEW features accessable if you had a unique CD key.

    If we'd like to change things, perhaps it's time you voted with your wallet. That, and if you'd like to play a really good Turn-based strategy game.
    • I really liked the game, it's the most retro game I've seen as far as copy protection
      There's something slightly more retro in this field.

      You've probably not heard of Firestarter - it installs easily, does not require the CD and does not require any CD-Key or any other license check to be performed. The game itself isn't a blockbuster, but it is a fairly inexpensive game that can provide a challenge.

  • I think that is one of the greatest articles that I have read in a very long time. Finally, somebody with common sense pointing out where an industry is really failing as opposed to pointing fingers at piracy. If only there was somebody high up in the music industry and the movie industry that had the same mentality of this developer. Of course, that would also mean that somebody high up in those industries would have a brain...

  • NoCD Patches (Score:3, Insightful)

    by algae ( 2196 ) on Friday July 23, 2004 @09:41PM (#9786477)
    This guy has it 100% right. Every single game that I've downloaded a no-cd patch for has been a game that I've legally purchased.
    • It's funny how a cracked copy runs faster without movies. Takes up less MB space because of no movies, and it doesn't need a no-cd crack. I can't think of 1 PC game that I legally purchased that gave me all 3.

  • It's our fault (Score:4, Interesting)

    by superultra ( 670002 ) on Saturday July 24, 2004 @12:04AM (#9787209) Homepage
    Why shouldn't the companies stop putting copy protection on games? I don't see these "legitimate users" threatening to boycott games with Safedisc on it. How many here have sent written letters through snail mail to their publishers saying they won't buy any more games with Safedisc on it?

    Including copy protection on a game, thus far, doesn't cost a publisher any sales. Who looks at a game and doesn't buy it based on its copy protection? So it doesn't work with users' CD-ROMs? Release a post-mortem patch, and people will start playing the game and stop whining.

    At this point, regardless of what Stardock's big cheese says or doesn't say, it costs companies more to exclude copy protection than it does to include it. Until consumers stop buying games with copy protection and there is a visible drop in sales that can be unquestionably attributed to the inclusion of copy protection (a visible boycott), it will always exist.

    Why do you think that copy protection on music CDs isn't on every single CD? Because enough people return the CD to the store. The only CDs with copy protection are corporate experiments. They're the ones the publishers are using to test the waters. But computer game buyers have been so pavlov-ed into the idea of patching and the inability to return a game that it doesn't even occur to us that we deserve a product that works on first try.

    We do, and maybe we should start acting like it.

    • Re:It's our fault (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Txiasaeia ( 581598 )
      "Why shouldn't the companies stop putting copy protection on games? I don't see these "legitimate users" threatening to boycott games with Safedisc on it. How many here have sent written letters through snail mail to their publishers saying they won't buy any more games with Safedisc on it?"

      Obviously you've never been on a forum on the release date of any game in the past three years. Neverwinter Nights, Morrowind, GTA, Master of Orion 3, etc. etc. - many, many users were calling for blood because their

      • "Why shouldn't the companies stop putting copy protection on games? I don't see these "legitimate users" threatening to boycott games with Safedisc on it. How many here have sent written letters through snail mail to their publishers saying they won't buy any more games with Safedisc on it?"

        Obviously you've never been on a forum on the release date of any game in the past three years.

        Well, no, your missing the point of parent's statement. Any user can sit down and just pound the keyboard with their ange

        • Guess I forgot to mention it, but I did write a pen and paper letter to Bioware about the protection scheme on NWN. Never received an answer. Yes, I am a nerd.

        • Because for every person who understands enough to hop on a forum and bitch, how many are simply sitting at their computer, wondering why that brand new CD they just bought isn't doing anything?

          They don't understand about copy protection, safedisc, or firmware. They just know that their new purchase isn't working.

    • The problem is that returning a game is usually a last resort for people.

      1: Buy game
      2: Install and get boned by CD protection
      3: Look for patch or 'official' workaround (optional)
      4: Bitch to developer or publisher about lack of workaround (extremely optional)
      5: Surf the world wide web for no-CD crack
      6: Return game cuz it just doesn't work

      If people almost always stop at number 5, the publisher won't ever see how CD protection affects their sales - but they WILL go on claiming that x-thousand players

      • The problem is that returning a game is usually a last resort for people.

        The reason with returning the game is that most software stores refuse to issue any refund for opened software packages. As a result, you will find youself either confined to a small set of stores or from manufacturere-direct orders.

        The only alternative is to take step #4 to the extreme: Not only do you send complaints to the developer/publisher, you also need to make those complaints public by putting it on a user review website.

    • I don't see these "legitimate users" threatening to boycott games with Safedisc on it.
      I didn't buy the second Neverwinter Nights expansion because it was reported that it refused to run if you were using any CD emulation software. I was using said software at the time to run Chessmaster 8000 without having to keep the disc in my drive.

      That and I never finished the first expansion, despite enjoying the original game.

  • I would like to add... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by OOO0000OO0O0 ( 799394 ) on Saturday July 24, 2004 @12:45AM (#9787375)
    Blame it on the console games. Ever since publishers thought the XBox and PS2 were going to kill PC gaming, there has been a shift in paradigm. I'm seeing shallower and shallower games designed to appeal to the average couch potato retard.

    It is not only the copy protection that publishers are screwing up on. I hate copy protection as much as the next guy. I will not buy The Sims. I will not buy Battlefield Vietnam. I will not buy Soldner. I will not buy Freelancer.
    But I will buy Doom 3; at least it has some creative direction and provides an immersive experience. I will buy Half-Life 2; at least it give syou a bigger possibility space (in the AI and physics) than other games. However, I will NOT buy, and will NOT even waste the time to download, titles that have been rushed out the door simply to make money. This problem exacerbates warez activity.

    Is it the publisher getting whacked by its inability to meet the lowest common denominator (which is damned low these days) or is it laziness and incompetence on part of the developers? This is another reason people don't buy games sometimes and just download them. Freshness and originality are out and repetitive gameplay is in. Graphics, mindless multiplayer, and other console trappings are replacing personality, feel, and depth of gameplay. Do we want to ante up the cash for yet another Battlefield 1942 or Far Cry (which wins my award for repetitive unoriginality) clone? We don't; that's why we download games.

    Does someone see a vicious cycle here? Developers and publishers work in tandem to develop games that aren't meant to be played but meant to make money. Jaded gamers routinely respond by doing the ole download-off-IRC and Throw-Away. The publishers feed back by introducing more copy protection, which fosters resentment in the community, which decreases the number of enthusiastic developers, which...

    • It sucks, but the Video Game Industry IS a business. It's like rock music finally selling out to MTV. All facets of the product are being changed to maximize profit, and to hell with anything else.

      Game play, doesn't matter. Replayability, doesn't matter. Graphics and buzzwords are the new game play, that's what's eye catching in the store, and replay ability is dangerous to them, if they want to release another game shortly after.

      Expansion packs, something that we never used to see so soon after a game wa
      • So let me get this straight, you claim that the gaming industry "sold out" even though you download their games? That is rather self-centered. You somehow expect the whole gaming industry to serve you but you don't want to pay money for their games. I got news for you, games, and music are not your rights, you don't have some innate right to access games and music.
        You don't like it, don't buy it, and don't pirate it. Don't sit around on /. bemoaning that the game industry refuses to indulge you every w
        • That's what I'm doing, buying all of my games legitimately and not buying games (and not downloading them, either) that don't interest me because they're rehashes or something. The effect is something of a boycott where I buy almost no PC games anymore. You know what publishers do in response? They throw their rehashes at the consoles, where I don't buy them either but there are enough good games to offset that effect and make the market look more lucrative to the publishers. That's why it looks like the PC
    • We don't; that's why we download games.

      No, you download games because a)they're something you want and b)downloading lets you get them for free. If you didn't want them, you wouldn't download them.

      • Re:I would like to add... (Score:1, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward
        That's just not true. I've downloaded more than a few games I thought were crap, and didn't stay on my computer for more than a couple of days. And, there are some games that I was waiting for release (WBC3, grr silly Americans, you have tons of developers, let us have our guys release the game here 1st, or at least at the same time), so I dled it, and when they *finally* got around to releasing it here, it was purchased.

        Possibly, the frustration of PC gaming is driving more than a few people to alternat
  • I can't understand why he makes such a huge deal about the CD key. It's never been an issue for me. I usually apply a little common sense by:

    1. Putting a label on the front of the CD with they key number.

    2. Adding the key to a word document I use to store all important numbers.

  • Eh (Score:2, Interesting)

    by bobstevens_took_my_n ( 799815 )
    Funny how tons of game sites jump on any story that can make software pirates feel good about themselves.

    Copy-protection methods are necessary. It's not the publisher's fault that copy protection is necessary, it's the fault of the software pirates. Placing the blame on the publisher for something that was caused by piracy is pretty poor planning.

    The guy should have just said that we need less-intrusive copy protection schemes. Like those little scanners at the exit of every retail store in the United

    • This is a non-argument Pirates steal regardless, the internet has made piracy 100% easier then it used to be and getting no-CD cracks is so easy the target market of gamers (teens to adults of 35 or so) are computer savvy enough to do it. Not many in the target market of gamers are computer ignorant or illiterate anymore we've had an entire generation that has grown up using the internet and computers, etc, so it is second nature.

      We've long since passed the age of needing copy protection like SecuRom beca
      • ...if you want to blame someone blame the hardware industry and the game developers themselves for not working with the hardware industry to create DVD/CD roms that can read special (non-standard) media that is NOT SOLD TO THE PUBLIC (see: Game cube discs)

        This has already been tried. The Dreamcast used a proprietary "GD-ROM" format, in an attempt to staunch piracy. I have a spindle of backed-up Dreamcast games. The GameCube has a proprietary mini-DVD disc that spins backwards and is not available to the
        • Yes but pirating for the DC and GC is much less common (at least in North america) when you make the method of piracy difficult an inaccesable to the 'masses' then pirating for PS2 and xbox because they share media with PC DVD/CD-R burners. I have not been easily able "mod" a gc, then burn discs to pirate my gamecube games where you can do that with PS2 and Xbox games. Case in point: I have to buy all my GC games and its kept me from looking for alternatives, I wait a year or so and buy older good games
  • the only reason developers deal with publishers at all is shelf-space, plain and simple. If you write a game and want it on display at Sam Goody, Electronics Botique, or Wal-Mart - you have to do it over their dead body.

    Game publishing companies are aiming to be the digital equivilant to the RIAA, in many respects. With developers as the under-paid artists.

    If the biggest dev studios (and small ones too) resorted to using their own means of publishing - such as "Steam", eBay, and Online ordering - then m

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