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Real Time Strategy (Games) Entertainment Games

Dawn of War Gold; Demo Out 47

Posted by michael from the zug-zug dept.
An anonymous reader writes "It seems that Relic's Dawn of War has gone gold, and is due out on September 20th. Published by THQ, Dawn of War is a Real-time Strategy game based in the Warhammer 40,000 universe. It's gotten a few previews so far - but why trust them when you can grab the demo? Unfortunately, a quick jog through Google didn't turn up any torrents."
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Dawn of War Gold; Demo Out More

Dawn of War Gold; Demo Out

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  • This is a truly awesome game. Relic have done it again, just like the homeworld series we've got some awesome new gameplay. Oh yeah, firstpost.

    • Re:Awesome game (Score:5, Informative)

      by phoenixTMW ( 106271 ) on Friday September 10, 2004 @08:43AM (#10211890)
      I agree - at first glance, this game is pretty well done. I don't know much about the Warhammer universe, but the ways resource gathering and troop building are implemented make a LOT more sense than other RTS games. Instead of having harvesters gather "ore" and "building" infantry, capturing and keeping strategic points gives the player an influx of "prestige", if you will, and troops are dropped down from orbit (for Space Marines, at least). One quibble I have is that the troops don't really exit from the building structures; they just sort of appear. But I also like the fact that individual Marine squads can be upgraded and reinforced.
      • It's a great day we live in when we can complain about not seeing people actually rush out of a door in real time 3D!
        • Well, they did the other build and deployment sequences so well I sort of expected the troop exit to be done in a similar fashion. Like I said, I thought the game was pretty cool. I'm just pointing out something that seemed jarring to me.

  • 3dgamers.com (Score:5, Informative)

    by WhatAmIDoingHere ( 742870 ) <sexwithanimals@gmail.com> on Friday September 10, 2004 @08:23AM (#10211707) Homepage
    3dgamers has a torrent running, I used it.. yesterday after reading about this on penny-arcade. It's a pretty quick torrent, and I should probably start seeding again for the /. crowd.

  • No go at cedega (Score:3, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 10, 2004 @11:25AM (#10213610)
    Unfortunately, the demo does not even install under Cedega (The program formerly known as winex) - the installer hangs with 100% at the end :-(

  • Great Game with Balance Issues (Score:5, Insightful)

    by carcosa30 ( 235579 ) on Friday September 10, 2004 @11:37AM (#10213745)
    I played the beta extensively from 1.3 to 1.4.

    My opinion agrees with the general consensus that 1.3 was far better balanced than 1.4. The reinforcement times have been decreased since 1.3, causing a severe rushing problem-- in effect, you have factories pumping out units right inside the enemy base.

    So, if the enemy tries to build tech, build listening posts for gathering resources, according to some people even building a power plant (!) he's going to be far behind when you get into his base with, say, three marine squads.

    In effect, the reinforcement system amplifies the Law of Diminishing Firepower which states that in a firefight, a momentary advantage to one side increases on a geometric rather than linear progression. If you get behind by a squad, you are not only losing the firepower of that squad but you are losing the reinforcing ability of that squad, meaning that your enemy is not only whittling down your numbers faster, but he himself is increasing in numbers faster than you are.

    Perhaps they will balance the problems by the time the gold comes out. I doubt it because there are many, many. I do think the problems are of a nature that will cause the game to get pale at mid- to high levels of play rather than making it not fun from the start; from what I saw of the game it's extremely cool anyway.

    Especially if you loved the tabletop wargame. Those were the days...
    • Wouldn't it be as simple as requiring your squad to go into 'vunerable' mode while requesting reinforcements.

      If whenever you clicked the 'more guys please' button, the people in your squad all sat down and lowered their defense, then it would require a bit more planning than just spamming the 'reinforce' button.

      Same with the 'in-squad' upgrades. If you click 'heavy bolt driver' button, then one of your guys just sits down and starts making it. You lose that guy in offence, and he (just he) is weak on

    • Re:Great Game with Balance Issues (Score:5, Informative)

      by Rakthar ( 580956 ) on Friday September 10, 2004 @06:57PM (#10217872)

      The devs yanked the 1.3 reinforce system because it ruined balance. A dev posted this on the relic forums:

      "The reason we removed the reinforce time modifier in 1.4 is that it threw unit balance completely out of wack. We'd spent months balancing all the units against one another using an established reinforce time, and changing that time basically threw all that work out the window (the Orks in particular suffered with this change). We would have had to re-balance the units practically from scratch, and that was far too great a risk so close to shipping."

      He also mentions his intention to try to see the "reinforcements come much more slowly in battle" system reimplemented at some point (in a different post)

      "The most frustrating thing about this whole issue for us is that I think we're 'all' in agreement. Reinforcement mods were a great addition in 1.3, and I want them back right now. That very fact should show how serious we consider this balance issue to be that we would stall putting in a change that we all agree will make the game better in the long run.

      I say stall because no, we aren't going to let this one rest. We can't re-visit this issue for release (which should give you an idea of how close we are), but unless lightning strikes me down we will re-visit it."

      So there you have it, why the reinforcement system in 1.3 was removed.

  • RTS vs RTT vs TBT (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Dachannien ( 617929 ) on Friday September 10, 2004 @01:37PM (#10214979)
    I'd rather see WH40k developed into a turn-based tactical game, much as the tabletop game was. But barring that, real-time tactical would be better (a la Myth 1, 2, and 3), and would solve the issues with squad reinforcement being unbalancing (since you wouldn't reinforce your squads in combat). Strategic issues could be taken up in a meta-game of sorts, in between combats, and the results of those combats would affect the outcome of the strategic game.

    Too late now, I guess :p

    • Re:RTS vs RTT vs TBT (Score:2, Interesting)

      by hibiki_r ( 649814 )

      Then you would probably like an old game called Warhammer 40K, chaos gate. it's an X-Com like tactical combat game using warhammer units. A pity that you could only play the space marines fighting the chaos army.

    • Re:RTS vs RTT vs TBT (Score:4, Insightful)

      by TheLoneDanger ( 611268 ) on Friday September 10, 2004 @08:41PM (#10218495)
      "I'd rather see WH40k developed into a turn-based tactical game, much as the tabletop game was."

      And why exactly would Games Workshop (the company behind Warhammer 40k) want that? They make their money selling the tabletop game. Why sell a videogame version that would dilute the market for the original, and more sustainably profitable game?

      It is much smarter to make games that COMPLEMENT the core product of the W40k tabletop game. If you want to play something like the W40k tabletop, then play the tabletop. But they can allow videogames that let you experience the universe in different ways (and possibly increase interest in the tabletop game) without cannibalizing their own market. I mean, I wish they would make another (good, as in not Fire Warrior) FPS that could make you feel how terrifying confronting a Carnifex or Hive Tyrant or Bloodthirster is supposed to be.
      • How bad was Fire Warrior? I keep seeing it in EB for $10 and am always considering buying it.

        Why sell a videogame version that would dilute the market for the original, and more sustainably profitable game?

        It seems to me that the core competency of GDW is the content- the 40K universe, characters, vehicles, weapons, aliens, etc- and their sustainable profitability comes from regular additions to that universe. Gameplay on the tabletop seems secondary (though still important), and perhaps model fabrica
        • It seems to me that the core competency of GDW is the content- the 40K universe, characters, vehicles, weapons, aliens, etc- and their sustainable profitability comes from regular additions to that universe. Gameplay on the tabletop seems secondary (though still important), and perhaps model fabrication comes in to play- the point is any and all forms of electronic games should be able to exist and not detract from the original.

          Games Workshop has learned the lesson that it is the models/figures that have
        • You know, I wonder if there would be a market for a GW to make a client program that contained all the rules of standard WH40k, with all of the table top mechanics in place. Give the client away and sell 'digital mini's' as well as maybe a nominal monthly fee to gain access to the servers.

          Even better for their business model would be to sell mini's and then give players thier digital equivalent for free via some code printed in the box/pack. I think that it'd be a popular deal, as finding players in your p

    • There are ectually a few of these already made to varying degrees. They each failed miserably within their own decade. Might want to google for them or even visit gamefaqs.com

  • Good Game, but might disappoint TT fans (Score:3, Informative)

    by servognome ( 738846 ) on Friday September 10, 2004 @04:35PM (#10216912)
    I have found it to be a beautiful, and fun RTS game. That said, it is an RTS game, so those looking for something similar to the table top experience might be disappointed.
    Some of the concepts like "cover" don't appear to be as fully fleshed out as they could have been. In general though the game plays well, and the units are diverse, interesting, and it takes time to recognize how to use each one well (things like "jump" abilities and grenades can make big difference if you use them right).
    It is definately a game I will be picking up when it comes out.

  • Actually... (Score:3, Funny)

    by darkfnord23 ( 696608 ) on Friday September 10, 2004 @06:40PM (#10217759)
    The 41st millennium doesn't start until the year 40,001.

    Matt

  • Cool (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Lord_Dweomer ( 648696 ) on Saturday September 11, 2004 @04:04AM (#10219795) Homepage
    So I used to be a big fan of Warhammer Fantasy (and I had some 40k minis) back in the day. Yeah, Gamesworkshop reamed you a new one every purchase, but it was a fun hobby.

    Now this game comes out and I don't have to buy any more of those fucking things! W00t!

    But in all seriousness, I DL the demo, and played for a couple hours. It was VERY immersive. The key that they discovered was to make the invidivual units have personalities within the squads. Like, if you upgrade the squad leader to a powerglove, he'll use it in combat.

    Its also cool to zoom in and watch the leader do a fatality on the last guy of a squad.

    I liked upgrading your units on the fly, and reinforcements. I wish I could play as Eldar....oh well. Wish they made a Fantasy version of this.

    I'll definitely be buying this one when it comes out. Its like WC3 but with 40k.

  • Necromunda (Score:4, Interesting)

    by mrgreen4242 ( 759594 ) on Saturday September 11, 2004 @05:47PM (#10223196)
    I used to LOVE playing another one of GWs games, Necromunda... for those who haven't seen it, it is a table top miniatures games where you control a gang in a post apocolyptic future, and you battle other gangs for territory, which in turn let you gain more money, recruits, and weapons/equipment.

    It's rule system is similar to 40k, but it's on a smaller scale - gangs are 8-12 mini's, and each unit 'develops'. That is they start out fairly weak, and gain XP for kills, survivng battles, etc, and in turn, gain HPs, skills, abilities, etc. They can also get impediments and advantages from being wounded in combat, but living through the battle overall. All-in-all it was really fun.

    Anyways, I was thinkign that this could be the KILLER MMORPG, because it would break the mold that EQ set. You wouldn't control just a single player, but a gang of 8-12 thugs. You battle other players via a RTS engine for territory, or could form alliances, etc, with other players. I think that it has defianate potential, since it's not just another EQ clone. The PVP would keep the PVPers happy,a nd the fact that you have 8-12 characters all the time should help keep the non PVPers happy, as it's not like your lvl 94 Palandin with Armor of Wonderment gets PVPed and you have to start all over again.

    I think that there is a fantasy version of Necromunda out there, too, which may work better in the current market where all MMORPGs seem to be fantasy stuff.

    Oh well, long enough post, but just one last thought... since the non battle elements could be handled via (very nice graphical) menu's, and the battles would only encompass up to say 4-6 players, this seems like it is something that wouldn't require massive server bandwidth/storage/power, and could be a really interesting opensource project...

    Anyone interested in discussing that idea should email me at mrgreen4242 (at) infojunkie.net...

    • Well, I was looking into this some more, and I foind a similar project, based on an opensource recreation of the old X-Com game.

      The basics of the MMO and the sf page for UFO2000, the engine. Anywho, it's not as cool of a universe, but it's very similar in concept, and a pretty cool universe none-the-less.

      Anyways, hopefully this will draw some more attention to their project.

  • ...You don't have to colour in all those friggin models yourself and make the map first :))
  • The demo is worth downloading purely for the CG intro video - which really captures the essence and chaos of a battle, imho. So even if you have no interest in the game - check out the vid!

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