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HardOCP Wins Against Infinium Labs 323

An anonymous reader writes "HardOCP has won a huge legal round against Infinium Labs. The WhereIsPhantom website has all the details, straight from the court dockets. There is a list of orders a mile long for Infinium Labs and owner Tim Roberts to comply with by Sept. 30th."
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HardOCP Wins Against Infinium Labs

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  • 0 posts (Score:5, Funny)

    by Phosphor3k ( 542747 ) on Thursday September 16, 2004 @08:53PM (#10273093)
    And that website is as non-existant as the console.
    • Re:0 posts (Score:5, Informative)

      by Torgo's Pizza ( 547926 ) on Thursday September 16, 2004 @09:07PM (#10273181) Homepage Journal
      Well, to be fair, I didn't expect this to show up on the front page of Slashdot either. We're just a two-bit operation over at trying to bring the truth to light.

      It didn't make it to this article, but four employees quit yesterday from Infinium Labs for various reasons including a late paycheck. The Sarasota office is expected to close (the one with the $300,000 sign) and all operations move to Seattle. There'll be more tomorrow I promise. (And hopefully that'll include more bandwidth.)
      • Re:0 posts (Score:5, Informative)

        by miikrr ( 799637 ) on Thursday September 16, 2004 @09:50PM (#10273386)
        You should have included all [] of [] the [] previous [] Slashdot coverage of Infinium's and HardOCP's quarrells.
        • Re:0 posts (Score:5, Informative)

          by Torgo's Pizza ( 547926 ) on Thursday September 16, 2004 @10:34PM (#10273595) Homepage Journal
          In my original submission, I spread the love around a bit. In all honesty, I'd rather be slashdotted to kingdom come and have the word get around, rather than have the site up and running and no one paying attention.

          Just be sure to come back later and visit. We've got over 200 articles covering the entire saga from beginning to end. The tale includes money trails, court intrigue, drugs, hackers and phreakers... you just can't make this stuff up.
      • by TiggertheMad ( 556308 ) on Friday September 17, 2004 @02:50AM (#10274636) Homepage Journal
        ..right when this whole feud started. They seemed like nice enough people. The were set up in temp offices in Seattle's bank of America building. Most of the PMs are ex-Microsoft (No MS jokes please, we are torching IL right now...) and at the time they were looking to hire a ton of people. They had the hardware done (Although I never saw it, being a first interiew), and were looking at the software delivery system. The ranking manager came off as a bit odd, but I didn't get and sense of shysters trying to pull a fast one or clueless idiots who couldn't pull it off. If all the negative press about the president being totally evil/inept isn't true, I'd give the console a fifty percent chance of seeing the light of day.

        The guys I talked to even thought that PA's shot at them was funny, so they have a sense of humor about all the press. I'm sort of glad I wasn't offered a job, though. Too much wierd stuff was happening.
        • They seemed like nice enough people.

          Has it actually escaped your attention that the good con artists always do? It's their primary stock in trade.

          Has it also actually escaped your attention that the employees of a good con artist are often as not just as much dupes of the scam as the customers?

          "But they seemed so nice!" is the nearly universal cry of the suckered.

      • Re:0 posts (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Oddly_Drac ( 625066 )
        "We're just a two-bit operation over at trying to bring the truth to light."

        I'm watching the E3 footage from infinium, and there does seem to be a prototype, but I'm astounded by the amount they want; $29.99 for a minimum committment of two years comes out at $730, which is a hell of a thing and tends to suggest that they're trying to get behind a subscription model.

        So the question is, was this basically a repackaged PC in a nice box?

        Hmm...yes, the UI does look suspiciously 'flash
    • Re:0 posts (Score:5, Informative)

      by bluewee ( 677282 ) on Thursday September 16, 2004 @09:07PM (#10273182)
      This should be of intrest []
  • That's... (Score:2, Informative)

    by Trikenstein ( 571493 )
    one of the hardest to read sites I've seen.
    They need to lose the fine horizontal lines.
    Or maybe I need to get my eyes tested...
    • by Anonymous Coward
      one of the hardest to read sites I've seen.

      Obviously you haven't been to the IT section [] lately...
      • by Trikenstein ( 571493 ) on Thursday September 16, 2004 @09:10PM (#10273200)
        I recognize that color.
        It's called *infants first crap*.
        • Re:That's... (Score:5, Informative)

          by gatzke ( 2977 ) on Thursday September 16, 2004 @09:15PM (#10273225) Homepage Journal

          You can get rid of it by removing the first part of the URL, like chage to

          The following is from another comment to help you in mozilla automatically drop the it. or games. part:

          Create New bookmark.
          Label something useful - "/. it fix"
          In location insert this
          javascript:void(location.hostname = "");
          • by gatzke ( 2977 ) on Thursday September 16, 2004 @11:11PM (#10273834) Homepage Journal
            I should have cited the original comment where I got this from:

   ho ld=1&commentsort=3&tid=124&mode=thread&cid=1018654 6

            This trick was originally posted by tqft (619476), but tqft cited Jesse Rudderman (Moz/FF/etc guy) as the original source.

            Now if taco (or some outsource programmer in Mumbai) could just get us a nice little "use normal /. colors on all pages" check box in our prefs...

          • Re:That's... (Score:3, Informative)

            by FyRE666 ( 263011 ) *
            ...or maybe you should use the right tool for the job []? Just install squidGuard, add a rewrite section as so:

            rew slashdot {
            log slashdot.log

            and add it to your acl section. Then whenever your proxy encounters, it's rewritten as You can obviously do this for any section, and you don't need to set up all your web browsers with an ugly javascript hack!

        • Re:That's... (Score:3, Informative)

          by Gurezaemon ( 663755 )
          Actually, infants' first crap (tm) is green / black. Meconium. Horrible stuff to clean up. It turns that attractive mustard color after a couple of days.
  • by Dancin_Santa ( 265275 ) <> on Thursday September 16, 2004 @08:54PM (#10273098) Journal
    Infineon got smacked down for price fixing its chips.

    Not a good week for Infin*.

    Anyone got a link that works? The phantom site seems to have disappeared into thin air.
  • by TheOtherAgentM ( 700696 ) on Thursday September 16, 2004 @08:55PM (#10273104)
    Do you mean, "Where is website?"
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 16, 2004 @08:55PM (#10273105)
    404 Not Found
  • by goneutt ( 694223 ) on Thursday September 16, 2004 @08:56PM (#10273110) Journal
    Infinium is a bit like a scab, if you pick at it it'll only get worse.

    Isn't this company/product the original vapor ware. Comments... Even the website is vapor.
    • by Anonymous Coward
      > Isn't this company/product the original vapor
      > ware. Comments... Even the website is vapor.

      Hmmm, the Infinium Labs website is actually very
      well done and professional so I don't know what
      you mean by a "vapor" website. But besides that,
      could someone explain what the uproar about this
      company is about? It seems the "slashdot"
      community has had a bug in it's ass about the
      company from day one. What gives? I don't know
      anything about this company but looking at its
      product literture it seems that they have a
    • by cynic10508 ( 785816 ) on Thursday September 16, 2004 @11:41PM (#10273980) Journal

      Isn't this company/product the original vapor ware.

      Well, they did send me a promise that they would release Duke Nukem Forever. It was handwritten in the blood of virgins. Strange how it smelled like ketchup though...

  • Text of article (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 16, 2004 @08:56PM (#10273115)
    Just in at the courthouse, an order regarding KB Network's Motion to Compel and Motion for Sanctions. Upon review of Plaintiff's Motion, the court finds that the motion should be granted in part and denied in part. Read on for the details...

    Judge Kaplan has ordered Infinium Labs to prudce a series of documents by September 30th. These include:

    1) "Documents reflecting the identity and location of potential investors, venture capitalists, investors, partners, shareholders to whom private placement memorandums were provided, or other stake or equity holders in Infinium Labs who are located in the state of Texas other than shareholders that acquired Infinium stock on the public market, and the transactions, proposed or consummated with same."

    2) "Pleadings and final judgments from any Court of any Jurisdiction in which Timothy Roberts was or is a Defendant between the dates of August 1, 2001 and February 29, 2004; and; the 2003 Tax Return of Timothy Roberts when filed."

    3) "All documents in their possession, custody, or control that evidence, reflect, relate to financial transactions (including any beneficial transaction) between Infinium and Roberts from August 2002 to the present, including but not limited to printouts of all bank, credit card, and other financial transactions currently maintained in electronic form."

    4) "All emails sent or received by Infinium's Texas employees."

    5) "All year-to-date payroll information and records for 2003-2004 for all of Infinium's Texas employees.

    6) "All documents reviewed by Kevin Bachus in preparing the declaration submitted in support of Defendant's motion to dismiss that have not otherwise been produced."

    7) "All loan documents between Infinium and Roberts, including but not limited to documents pertaining to the $50,000 loan Roberts testified about in his deposition."

    8) "All archival data and all forum postings from Infinium's websites."

    9) "A complete and unaltered copy of the 'Who's We' agreement."

    10) "All Infinium board of directors minutes and resolutions, with the substance of the resolution redacted unless it pertains to Roberts. Defendants are also ordered to make unredacted copies of its board of directors minutes and resolutions available for inspection by Plaintiffs' counsel at the office of Defendants' counsel. Defendants shall make such documents available for inspection on or before September 30, 2004. If, after inspection, Plaintiffs believe that any redacted portions of these documents should be produced, they may seek appropriate relief from the court."

    11) "Plaintiffs' may re-depose Infinium and Roberts, with questioning at the second depositions limited to documents and information not produced to Plaintiffs prior to the first depositions. The combined duration of the first and second depositions shall not exceed seven hours per witness. Additionally, at the option of defendants, the depositions may proceed by telephone... . Plantiffs shall pay the costs of the second depositions and each party shall bear its own attorneys' fees. The second depositions shall be completed by November 5, 2004."

    Now, once you've digested all that you'll remember that the court also ruled against KB Networks in some parts. That is actually only one item which is: "Plantiffs' request for sanctions is denied."


    It appears that HardOCP came away with a large victory. Without the transcriptions from the first depositions, we can only speculate based on subsequent motions on what transpired that day. It's quite obvious that the focus is purely on Tim Roberts and following the extensive money trail that has resulted. Section Six is of interest since it's the only one dealing with Kevin Bachus. What did Bachus say (or not say) during his deposition that piqued the interest of Kyle's lawyers?

    We now have mention of a $50,000 loan that Roberts testified to in his deposition. What is the significance of this money? Further, will the production of emails, the old website and payroll be enough to prove Infinium can indeed be rightfully sued in Texas?
    • by Short Circuit ( 52384 ) * <> on Thursday September 16, 2004 @09:26PM (#10273283) Homepage Journal
      3D Realms threatens to sue the next person to compare them to Infinium.
    • HardOCP won a battle against infinium in court.
      Ok whats the battle about?
      stolen from CNN

      (CNN) -- A few weeks ago a new game console was unveiled on the Web called Phantom.

      Its developer, Infinium Labs, promises it will be the "must-have high performance game console," and that the Phantom will provide "more access to more games of every genre than any competing product," all "with blazing speed."

      Six months ago, it was only a rumor among hardcore gamers. In fact, it seemed Phantom was, as the American Heri
      • by mabhatter654 ( 561290 ) on Thursday September 16, 2004 @10:18PM (#10273493)
        Kyle called "bullshit" back in september of last year. Don't know why, but Kyle wrote a ripping piece on them from out of nowhere...maybe they had some of his money!! [haha] but for some reason they pulled his chain and he went digging...and found free and clear public knowlage that they weren't what they said they were...hell their stated office address at the time was a vacant rundown store!

        For some reason they tried to sue HIM to take the article down like 4 months later!!! He corrected matters of fact...silly stuff that didn't change any of the article's real information. They tried to drag him to court in he "counter" sued in Texas court [where Kyle lives and supposedly they had an office also!] to have a case dismissed... they then preceded to sue him again.

        I can't say why this is such a big deal. The only thing I can see is that Roberts appears to be a serial "scammer" [but then 50% of VC seekers are anyway] and it was just too easy a target for Kyle to pass up...and if you read the forums or letters replys, Kyle LOVES a good Flame war! can you say recipe for trouble!!!

        • by Ohreally_factor ( 593551 ) on Friday September 17, 2004 @04:06AM (#10274863) Journal
          It's probably been a while since you've read the original article, but you messed up on a fact or two. I'm not picking on you. I just believe facts are important, and when someone inadvertently misses a few details, we can easily clear it up by checking the facts. ...hell their stated office address at the time was a vacant rundown store!

          In actuality, the address was a Mailboxes Etc mailbox. The vacant storefront just happened to be in the same strip mall, thus the initial confusion.

          Another fact that you got wrong is that Kyle didn't counter sue, he sued pre-emptively (justifiably, imo) after receiving various legal threats. Read about it here.
  • Copied from HardOCP (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 16, 2004 @08:58PM (#10273124)

    HardOCP Vs. Infinium Update: has one of the latest documents filed in our case on-line for you to download and of course gives their thoughts on what IL's lawyers have to say about coverage of the case. To quote the filed motion from IL's attorneys:

    Infinium is concerned about the tactics of the Plaintiffs and their lawyers in this case. This case has received an unusual amount of publicity for a case of its type. In fact, Plaintiffs' counsel has issued their own press release announcing the institution of this action and that the Plaintiffs stand behind their negative statements about Infinium and Roberts. Likewise, the plaintiffs run a website called wherein they continue to publicize this lawsuit. Additionally, a website has been established called which "exists for the sole purpose of brining to light as many details as [it] can uncover about Infinium Labs, the lawsuit with KB Networks, and anything else that IL is involved in.

    It is my personal opinion that if they did not want this case to be publicized on the Web, they should have not threatened to sue a website multiple times.

    Just as a note, all documents that posts are a matter of public record. You just have to pay to download them. Sounds like a pretty solid "tactic" to me. Just wait till it gets exciting.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 16, 2004 @09:02PM (#10273150)
    Nobody's going to visit HardOCP for a while.
    Isn't that what Infinium wanted? :)
  • HardOCP Article (Score:5, Informative)

    by sbszine ( 633428 ) on Thursday September 16, 2004 @09:03PM (#10273155) Homepage Journal
    TFA is Slashdotted, but there's a small news article at HardOCP [] if you're interested.
  • I like [H]ard OCP (Score:4, Interesting)

    by category_five ( 814174 ) on Thursday September 16, 2004 @09:07PM (#10273183)
    I like [H]ard OCP because they stay true to their roots and post mostly about motherboards and stories interesting to the [H]ardware community while other hardware sites are now posting useless reviews of webcams, PDA's and wireless routers which have little to do with making your game machine be all it can be.(anandtech and tomshardwareguide).
  • by servoled ( 174239 ) on Thursday September 16, 2004 @09:12PM (#10273207)
    Why are these two in court exactly? It would be nice to provide some basic background for those of us out there who don't religiously follow HardOCP.
    • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 16, 2004 @09:17PM (#10273237)
      They posted an "expose" on Infinium - shady history of CEO, their "offices" being nonexistant, their shady employees, etc etc. Infinium threatened to sue, sent them a C&D, so HardOCP sued them to get a statement from the court saying they are in the clear and legal and not committing libel/slander
    • by category_five ( 814174 ) on Thursday September 16, 2004 @09:21PM (#10273260)
      [H]ard OCP posted a review of the phantom console detailing Phantoms liberal use of Hot glue in its construction and the lack of appeal of a subscription based console among other things. Also [H]ardOCP posted an editorial about the failed history of other ventures that the CEO of Infinium Labs, Timothy M. Roberts, has attempted. This during the time when Infinium Labs was (and still is) attempting to raise capitol to start production of the Phantom. Understandably Infinium Labs sued [H]ardOCP for slander.
      • Understandably Infinium Labs sued [H]ardOCP for slander.

        Not so understandably. Actually HardOCP pre-empted Infineum by filing for a declaratory judgment. Infinium is thus in an ugly position of having things they have been trying to gloss over proved in court. Tim Roberts must be a SCO-quality knucklehead. This is a lawsuit he didn't need to be involved in.

    • by oneiros27 ( 46144 ) on Thursday September 16, 2004 @09:30PM (#10273298) Homepage
      HardOCP [] is a gaming website. Last year, they ran an article questioning the Infinium Phantom Console [] which had been announced, but no one had yet seen.

      The article did some probing into the company, and some of their claims, such as the history of the president of Infinium.

      Infinium stated they would sue HardOCP over the letter, and sent e-mail to tell HardOCP to change or remove parts of the article []. HardOCP didn't cave, and so, there was a lawsuit, and now it's progressed to this (which isn't really a win).
    • by geminidomino ( 614729 ) * on Thursday September 16, 2004 @09:30PM (#10273299) Journal
      If I remember, Infinium sued (or threatened to sue, I can't remember which) [H]ard OCP a while back for a negative article about the vaporware Phantom, some other interesting factoids, like the "storefront" being an empty office, etc...

      I can't remember what HOCP was suing them back for, though.
      • they tried to pull a fast one and sue in Florida [with the super-sloppy business courts] when both parties "clearly" [again according to Infinium's own info!] had business presence in Texas. So Kyle counter-sued in Texas, where the site is, for "harassment" or the legal equivelant to nulify their suit.
  • by Llynix ( 586718 ) < minus punct> on Thursday September 16, 2004 @09:19PM (#10273252) Homepage Journal
    For some background information you might want to check back to these past [] articles [].
  • by miikrr ( 799637 ) Damn I hope that company dies.
  • by Bo'Bob'O ( 95398 ) on Thursday September 16, 2004 @09:20PM (#10273258)
    You know, I am not one to generally criticize Slashdot for it's mistakes, dupes, slant or whatever. It is what it is. I just wish that the posters or the editors would give just a little background on the stories submitted, even if it is just a review from the last time it was discussed.

    There are people on this forum with a great deal of different backgrounds that may not always be familiar with the names, companies, and situations involved in stories that might interest a causal reader, without him or her having to dig up research just to know what the story is even about.
  • Excellent news (Score:5, Insightful)

    by H_Fisher ( 808597 ) <> on Thursday September 16, 2004 @09:24PM (#10273276)
    I'm glad the court seems to have taken a no B.S. approach here, in response to the piles of it Infinium & its lawyers produced. That lawfirm especially needed its gonads ground into the dirt for the unprofessional way they tried to handle this.

    Kudos also to HardOCP for not running scared when faced with legal threats. If more of the "little guys" were able to stand strong against frivolous or iffy strong-armed legal challenges, the world might not be perfect but we'd be headed in a better direction.

    • Re:Excellent news (Score:3, Informative)

      by D. Book ( 534411 )
      Kudos also to HardOCP for not running scared when faced with legal threats. If more of the "little guys" were able to stand strong against frivolous or iffy strong-armed legal challenges, the world might not be perfect but we'd be headed in a better direction.

      While it is a victory for truth, it's a pretty small one, as it is hardly a case of David v. Goliath. Indeed, I suspect the whole matter is primarily an ego thing for HardOCP, having gained some insight into the personality of the owner after an e-ma
  • HardOCP has a few pics of the console on their site. if you look at this pic [] near the center inside the console you can spy a DVI connector. Looks like they just ran off some of the S-video and other connectors from that card.

  • Where is
  • by Artifex ( 18308 ) on Thursday September 16, 2004 @10:37PM (#10273619) Journal
    I wonder how these lawsuits are going to look in their planned filing [] with the American Stock Exchange []?

  • by British ( 51765 ) <> on Thursday September 16, 2004 @11:06PM (#10273806) Homepage Journal
    Here's a fun idea.

    1. get a linux system together with some good hardware. Make it mini-itx
    2. Take out all non-game-console-specific stuff out. Make it a small distro
    3. Buy a game controller from the store, get drivers working for it
    4. Setup some crude kiosk frontend that might be what the Phantom would have
    5. Install MAME on it or something and pretend the arcade ROMs ae the games Phantom would be selling(this is just an example)
    6. Put a fancy plastic case around it.

    Then realize you have some crude implmentation of what might have been a Phantom console, only for the cost of hardware, and people's free time to slap together a fancy front end with a Linux engine(not unlike TiVo)

    7. wait for lawsuits from Infinium labs to roll in saying you copied their idea

    8. brag about it on here and HardOCP. They have a plastic box and hype, you have a somewhat crude , working implementation of what they have promised, but never delivered.

  • Boilerroom (Score:2, Interesting)

    by threedays ( 16600 )
    Has anyone else been getting spam promoting the purchase of infinium labs stock? Too lazy to look for one of them, but its on one of those non sec stock markets.

    Has infinium turned into one of those fake boilerroom companies, with some people trying to cash out real quick?
  • pretty obvious (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Chuck Bucket ( 142633 ) on Thursday September 16, 2004 @11:41PM (#10273981) Homepage Journal
    Once they released the specs for that box it seemed pretty obvious that it was just a scan to pull in a few extra VC dollars. All this time with nary a peep coupled with [H]ard ops investigative work and the cover is revealed. In allot of ways the Internet *is* the great equalizer.

  • by telstar ( 236404 ) on Friday September 17, 2004 @12:47AM (#10274279)
    Duke Nukem Forever ...

    It's like a modern-day "which came first?"
  • From the website: (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Erik Hollensbe ( 808 ) on Friday September 17, 2004 @07:30AM (#10275250) Homepage
    Phantom website []

    Infinium Labs, Inc. was founded by a management team...

    That's all I need to hear.
  • by Anita Coney ( 648748 ) on Friday September 17, 2004 @08:41AM (#10275486) Homepage
    Originally Tim Roberts intended to bilk a bunch of investors by pretending to create a gaming console, spending the money, then getting out of dodge. As HardOCP has pointed out, he's done that before.

    However, the online gaming community took notice and started asking real questions, e.g., where is an actual product? What companies will actually be writing games? Etc.

    Suddenly Roberts had to prove to the investors, and to future investors that the console was real, so he was forced to hire Kevin Bachus, former Microsoft Xbox employee. And worse of all for Roberts, he was actually forced to create a real product.

    Now that the online gaming community has put Roberts in a spotlight, he is no longer free to lurk in the dark. Now he's forced to either admit it was a scam or to go forward and fail with an asinine business plan. Mmmm... I wonder what he'll do?!

  • by bittmann ( 118697 ) on Friday September 17, 2004 @09:34AM (#10275821) Journal
    That's quite a stretch, CowboyNeal, somehow turning "This Account Has Been Suspended / Please contact the billing/support department as soon as possible." into "HardOCP Wins BIG against Infinium Labs". Maybe I don't have the right one-time encryption pad?
  • by dlapine ( 131282 ) <[lapine] [at] []> on Friday September 17, 2004 @10:20AM (#10276206) Homepage
    Here's the link to the orignal HardOCP article detailing their investigation.
    Link to Original HardOCP article []
    This looks a good piece of investigative journalism by a website. Kudos to them for providing the public an unbiased set of facts.

God help those who do not help themselves. -- Wilson Mizner