Slashdot is powered by your submissions, so send in your scoop

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
×
Editorial Entertainment Games

Game Developers: Stop Overpromising 382

Andru Edwards writes "Recently, there has been a flurry of game developers releasing games which did not live up to expectations the developers set earlier on. Due to this pratice of overhyping upcoming games, gamers have become wary of those games which have major hyoe behind them. Here is a look at which developers are falling victim to the hype, as well as why Nintendo's frustrating strategy might actually be the best approach after all."
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Game Developers: Stop Overpromising

Comments Filter:
  • by lou2ser ( 458778 ) on Friday October 22, 2004 @08:37AM (#10597350)
    Just a link: http://www.3drealms.com/duke4/ [3drealms.com]
  • Stop Overpromising (Score:5, Insightful)

    by donnyspi ( 701349 ) <junk5 AT donnyspi DOT com> on Friday October 22, 2004 @08:38AM (#10597364) Homepage
    Yeah, tell this to the presidential candidates!
    • Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)

      by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Friday October 22, 2004 @09:50AM (#10598025)
      Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • I disagree that the problem is consumers. (Do you work for BestBuy, by chance?) While we do respond to hype, the hype is not coming only from the software shop or game conglomerate (EA, Nintendo, Sony, Sega, etc.) you expect to get it from. It's also coming from the gaming magazines, G4 shows and published reviews that are quite often far too generous.

        While I don't play console games, I know that the console mags are often unable or unprepared to give realistic reviews on the hyped new title. PC games mag

      • When we whine, the developers sometimes respond by doing better next time... but mostly they just laugh all the way to the bank.

        That'll almost certainly be down to the publisher, not the developers themselves. I don't know many games devs, but I know a fair few programmers, and I can't think of any who don't want to do the best job they can.
      • by Lord_Dweomer ( 648696 ) on Friday October 22, 2004 @01:19PM (#10600769) Homepage
        Oh please. I work in advertising/marketing, and this is ridiculous. Now, I will be the first to admit there are evil marketers out there who do nothing but hype hype hype to make a buck, and I will also add that I think the game publishers are EXTREMELY guilty of this.

        What I disagree with you on is what you think the role of marketing is.

        As a marketer, my job is to let the public know about our product. Now, ethical people like myself would not lie about a product or promise things that obviously don't have a snowballs chance of hell of making it into this version. We do not just go hog wild with everything you give us......well, not if we're good at what we do. You see, its one thing if you just want to sell a product to someone once and never see them again, and never get any customers again. But if you have any desire of getting return customers, or having them spread the good word so you get more first time customers, viral marketing (industry term for word of mouth) is ESSENTIAL. And you don't have a chance in hell of getting that unless you have a solid product that lives up to your claims.

        So while not all marketers are evil, and not all of us hype the hell out of everything we touch, game companies are definitely guilty as charged. And you are dead on about people eating up the hype. Well, ignorant people who don't suspect hype at least, which unfortunately is the vast majority.

        In our industry, there's two terms we use, hype and buzz. Hype is more of a negative thing for the exact reasons you describe. Buzz however is the viral marketing aspect of it, and means people are spreading the good word about your product because the product lives up to claims, and in essence, sells itself.

  • Um can we Say... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by DarthTeufel ( 751532 ) on Friday October 22, 2004 @08:38AM (#10597366)
    Jump To Lightspeed? Another Sony title that is going to be released before its finished, and create more bugs in the original software title. This is the End of Star Wars Galaxies. I have forseen it.
  • what I do (Score:5, Insightful)

    by theMerovingian ( 722983 ) on Friday October 22, 2004 @08:39AM (#10597367) Journal

    Heh, just wait a few months (or years) for them to get cheaper... At least for Xbox, you can go out and buy the system for less than 50% of the original cost. Most of the good games are "Platinum Classics" or some such, which means $20 brand new.

    I just got a Nintendo 64, and let me tell you, that Goldeneye game is fun! You pay a high cost to keep up with the game industry, and arguably don't get any additional entertainment from your hours devoted to gaming. Don't be a herd consumer.

    My 0.02...

    • Re:what I do (Score:5, Insightful)

      by squaretorus ( 459130 ) on Friday October 22, 2004 @08:47AM (#10597460) Homepage Journal
      Excellent advice - value spots in the market right now? Dreamcast and the N64 - two excellent systems with a few phenominally good games and a fair raft of perfectly excellent diversional games which will come bundled with the machine if you pick your eBay auction wisely.

      You also get the fun of calculating the original costs of what just bought. I bought a dreamcast kit for £30 inc P&P which would have cost over £1000 if I'd bought it new. Now THATS a depreciating investment.
      • Tetrisphere [gamespot.com], on the N64, is one of the greatest game ever made. It combined all the awesome puzzle-strategy that made Tetris so wildly successful and translated into a fun 3-D environment (unlike, Wetris and Tetris3d, which just gave me headaches), with a kickass soundtrack and a collection of different play modes (including one of the best non FPS Multiplayer games, bested only by Super Puzzle Fighter II).

        Nowadays you can get it for a song, and it's still just as great to play as it was when it was new.
    • Great minds! (Score:2, Interesting)

      by RyoShin ( 610051 )
      I don't have the time as it is to play a lot of the big names games. So why would I pay top price for them?

      I didn't get my Dreamcast until after they officially killed it off. I bought mine at Sears for $100, and it came with an extra controller, memory card, and two games. All the good games are $20 new, and the moderate games are $10 used.

      I bought my N64 two years after it was released, and only because KBToys had a deal I appreciated. I only had four games until they released the Gamecube. Now I have
    • I haven't bought a game in quite a few years, for the simple reason that I already have enough games that I find enjoyable. I know that if I'm bored, I can find some game in my library that will keep me interested.

      Sure, that means sacrificing the best graphics and such, but gameplay really hasn't improved much overall. Plus, with a modern machine, many older games look a lot better anyway.
    • You can run an emulator for free.

      I still play some of the old classics, like Super Ghouls and Ghosts (SNES), the sonics (Genesis) and some not-TOO-old games like F-ZeroX (N64) and the N64 Zelda.

      Not to mention the thousands of MAME titles and such..

      With emulators, games will never die. The XBox is actually pretty awesome when it comes to this - all these emulators are available on a modded Xbox, for play on a full TV screen. You can even get controller adapters to hook up old Atari, Nintendo, etc contr
  • Unfortunately... (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 22, 2004 @08:39AM (#10597372)
    ...hype sells, even if a game doesn't live up to the hype at all. Fable sold something like 600,000 copies last month (when it was released). Pikmin 2, Nintendo's woefully underhyped game, sold about 180,000. Pikmin 2 is arguably the superior game. So, unfortunately, Nintendo's strategy may make them endearing in the eyes of hardcore gamers (I myself am a Sony fan but lately have a lot of respect for Nintendo), but it's also the reason why Gamecube is in 3rd place in America :(
    • You're comparing apples and bananas. Pikmin 2 didn't sell well because the original Pikmin was extremely disappointing (interesting premise flawly executed). Pikmin 2 is much better (I own it) but it's still a relatively repetitive game with a lot of polish. How well it sold had nothing to do with Fable.
      • Extremely disappointed? Absurdly short, but that's about it. It was an original concept, I fell in love with the game, and it was fun to kill hundreds of Pikmin at a time... like old-school Lemmings days...

        Few games have made me feel that way since SNES Lemmings. :-)

    • Re:Unfortunately... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Lumpy ( 12016 ) on Friday October 22, 2004 @09:12AM (#10597659) Homepage
      I own both the Ps2 and the Gamecube. Except for a very few games the Gamecube is used much more than the PS2. hell I have beta-tested about 5 PS2 games as well and I still wait for a game for the PS2 that can even touch Pickmin2 or MarioKart GC, etc... It seems that nintendo is focused on gameplay and entertainment value where the Sony developers are stuck with "make it purdy" "It's gotta be a FPS!!" Ok, Grand Theft Auto was a neat idea, now it's worn out and tired, I certianly will not buy the new one that is coming out because I do not want more of the same. Even the Final Fantasy line is old and tired.

      Where are the highly addictive games? I still play frequency even though some of the songs I can probably close my eyes and still win.

      i am tired of PC games remade for consoles, Movie based games, or other games where the game it's self was not the origional idea. I am also sick of games that are single player only. games are a huge blast when you have 2 or more players, 4 player games completely rock.... nothing beats trash talking your 10 year old in a fighting game or in MarioKart GC or screwing up 3 of your friends on a multiplayer game.
    • I beg to disaggree (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Moraelin ( 679338 ) on Friday October 22, 2004 @09:12AM (#10597669) Journal
      For me Fable was a _great_ game. And I'm not even a fan of real-time RPGs.

      It wouldn't have hurt if it were a bit longer, though.

      But then, you know, that's a sign that you actually enjoyed whatever content was in it: it leaves you wanting for more. I can think of other games I said "good riddance" to at the end, or even games which I never bothered (or even wanted to) finish.

      Whereas Fable had me pretty much glued to the chair until the end. It had me thinking about it at work. And then there I was thinking "whaaa...? Over already. But I want more!"

      I never tried drugs, but I'd imagine that's what drug addiction is like.

      And heck, as hype goes it definitely wasn't a selling point for me. After the utter shit that was Black and White, another hyped PM game was _not_ quite something I'd fall for that easily. Doubly so another game where he passes piss-poor judgment on what "good" and "evil" means.

      I mean, that guy may well be obsessed with "good vs evil", but he's totally unable to depict more than a carricature of what either means. None of his games, ever since Populous 1, raised above the over-simplified AD&D notion of "good" and "evil".

      So the short version is: all that the hype had as an effect is that I was actually planning _not_ to buy it. It took a lot of talking to friends and co-workers who've actually played it before I tried it.

      So basically, please. Fable may not have been _everyone's_ cup of tea. No game ever is. But there are also one helluva lot of us who think it was worth every cent and then some. In fact, in my case it was also worth every cent I paid for the XBox just to play it. (I didn't already own an XBox.)

      Basically for a lot of us it _did_ live up to the hype, and then some.
    • Re:Unfortunately... (Score:4, Interesting)

      by gothzilla ( 676407 ) on Friday October 22, 2004 @09:49AM (#10598013)
      but what are the long term sales going to look like? There are a few companies that actually plan for the long run. I wouldn't be surprised if in 3 years Pikmin has far out-sold Fable.
      When you own a business, it's nice to sell a whole crapload of product the first month it's out, but your business is going to be around for much longer than a month. If you can successfully manage a product now that still has successful sales 3 years from now, you will never have a problem with profits.
      I don't know enough about Pikmin to know if it will still be successfully selling in a few years but if it's as good as you say then I wouldn't be surprised.
  • Wow. (Score:5, Funny)

    by theparanoidcynic ( 705438 ) on Friday October 22, 2004 @08:39AM (#10597377)
    Marketing promises more than engineering can deliver. News at 11.
    • Sadly (Score:4, Interesting)

      by cgenman ( 325138 ) on Friday October 22, 2004 @09:17AM (#10597704) Homepage
      Sadly, marketing is hardly ever the problem in the game business. Marketing doesn't start bombing the players until between one week to five months before ship, and they generally don't make promises. There are a few obvious counter examples, Jon Romero about to make you his B*%$h being the most famous one, but for the most part marketing does a reasonable job of handing the spec sheet to the magazines and shouting about how great it will play. I don't think I've seen an example of the marketing department actually making stuff up, though I've seen them make promises based upon specs or feature sheets that got cut.

      And that's really the problem. You need to cut things. Either the hyperreal evolutionary landscape was dragging down the processor, or it added layers of unnecessary interaction that killed gameplay (Masters of Orion 3), or you just didn't have time to finish a given feature properly (the extra spirit forges from Soul Reaver), but features will be cut. If you're unprofessional and blog your development cycle to fans who build up notions from your scattered information, you're going to disappoint many of them with decisions that ultimately were correct.

      All developers love their fans, and want to have a personal relationship with them. But there are areas where this has to be off limits. All entertainment media know that you have to keep people quiet if you want the experience to be new and unexpected. That we're still struggling with this issue is just another sign of our relative youth as an industry. Enough info will leak out anyway to keep your fans interested. Look at Star Wars, or the LotR productions.

      Don't worry. We're getting there.

      Due to a technical error, News will be at 12.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 22, 2004 @08:39AM (#10597380)
    In that case noone can rival the eliteness of Frontier, the company that has been expected for perhaps a decade (or more?) to release the next installment in the legendary space game Elite (tentatively called Elite4).

    They have, howver, been successful in shutting down the existing Elite derivatives like E:TNK and terminating Darkness Falls.
    • by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 22, 2004 @09:05AM (#10597596)
      Derek Smart, the man whose reputation has become so bad that when he started talking about buying up rights to make a Freespace sequel, the Freespace user community started a fundraising drive to buy it before he could.
  • by isecore ( 132059 ) <isecore@i s e c o r e.net> on Friday October 22, 2004 @08:40AM (#10597384) Homepage
    This is nothing new. Every game (or really any piece of software för that matter) gets a lot of hype beforehand. It's been the norm for at least the last decade.

    Especially now it's more true than ever. Games get hyped and then rushed into production. Finally they release an inferior product that is not only far from what the promise was but also full of bugs.

    It's the problem with the internet-age: make a crappy product and ship it as soon as the beta-testers give the thumbs up (but with minimal amount of testing) and release patches on your webpage later.

    So far this year I haven't seen a single game that has lived up to the hype. Not even Doom3, even though it was a half-decent play it did not come close to the hype surrounding it.

    As I said, this is not only limited to games. Look at every product that Microsoft/etc has released in the last 5-6 years. They promise to revolutionize the world, but it's the same wordprocessor in a slightly new package.

    [end of rant]
    • With a game studio, overpromsing is almost expected. They are small organizations with rampant turnover, and seem to exist for only a few projects at a time.

      Intel and Microsoft are billion dollar companies, run by highly experienced executives, marketers, and engineers. They have lifers on staff for corporate memory. Not only should they know better, it's their job to know better.

      Then again, both firms seem to insist on being run like a startup.

    • by Loco3KGT ( 141999 ) on Friday October 22, 2004 @09:23AM (#10597765)
      Ever play Anarchy Online? Released *without* the thumbs up of the beta testers to much hype.

      What happened? Everyone subscribed and then quit within the first month. Several months later after they finally fixed some of the problems they went back to all of the customers that cancelled and offer a free month to give them a second chance.
  • by Code-Ex ( 655722 ) on Friday October 22, 2004 @08:40AM (#10597387)
    In my company, the developers have no direct contact with customers (usually). It's the product managers that interact with the customers, but the product managers tend to be deaf to all negative information.

    Product Manager: When will Project A be delivered?
    Lead Developer: There is a 50% chance we can deliver by March next year.
    Product Manager: Good, I'll tell the customers we can deliver by February. We can deliver Feature B right?
    Lead Developer: We don't have enough people to finish developing it by March.
    Product Manager: You developers work overtime all the time anyway right. February it is.

    • You forgot the other side of the equation:

      Product Manager: when will Project "A" be delivered?

      Lead Developer: (hmmm... we could probably get it done by January, but the PM is going to ask for sooner...) There's a 50% chance we can deliver by March next year.

      PM: Good, I'll tell the customers we can deliver by February.

      LD: (Good... some room for padding...)

      PM: We can deliver Feature B, right?

      LD: We don't have enough people to finish developering it by March.

      PM: You developers work overtime and spend
    • The other side of this, having been both a developer and a PM is:

      PM: When can you get it delivered?

      LD: In a couple of weeks it's 95% finished.

      (A week later)

      PM: How are we progressing?

      LD: Almost there, another couple of weeks, it's 95% finshed.

      (Several weeks later)

      PM: How are we progressing?

      LD: Almost there, another couple of weeks, it's 95% there. But look at this cool feature I've added.

      PM: Was that in the spec?

      LD: No but surely everyone wants VI support in their RPG. Otherwise how are they going
  • by gl4ss ( 559668 ) on Friday October 22, 2004 @08:42AM (#10597412) Homepage Journal
    and preorders == shelf space.

    doesn't take a genius to figure out why to do it, and more than that - GAMERS FORGET FAST. and they lack spine. even when they have spine and decide that they'll NEVER buy a game from some particular studio or a publisher with kiss-of-deadly-bugs.. they just switch names.
  • by sm.arson ( 559130 ) on Friday October 22, 2004 @08:42AM (#10597415) Homepage
    Better to aim for the stars and hit the moon, instead of aiming for the moon and hitting the ground... or whatever the saying is.

    From my short experience, cool features tend to get eliminated from a project as the delivery deadline grows near - not added.

    Half of the awesome blue-sky ideas that we have for a game end up never working out. That's just the nature of the business. That doesn't mean that we're going to stop trying, though.
    • Yes, it may be better to aim for the stars and hit the moon, but it's been my long experience that success is all about managing expectations.

      Scotty on the enterprise always tells Kirk that a repair is going to take 3 hours and finishes it it 2. Kirk can plan around that. Now if Scott took the same estimates, promised the job would take one hour if everything went well, and delivered in 2 he would be viewed as incompetant.

      Generally when you report a fact to the buying public, the expect it to be a done

    • But isn't that why so many games (on PC, at least) are buggy pieces of crap at release? The developers spend time trying to get cool features to work, even if some of them are then dropped, instead of bug-hunting.

      Falcon4, for example - most hyped flight sim of its day - took something like three years of Microprose and community work after release to be playable. BF1942 didn't work online reliably for months after release, *still* doesn't have a working server browser and servers crash constantly, even aft
  • Doom III (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Byzandula ( 83077 ) on Friday October 22, 2004 @08:43AM (#10597424)
    Amen. This game was pretty weak considering the hype surrounding it. Don't get me wrong, I was scared in quite a few scenes during gameplay, but I felt like the level design wasn't as well thought out as it could have been. And for the love of God, if you are going to include multiplayer, do it right. I'm sorry to rant, but I would rather have seen more time spent on the single player experience and have them omit the multiplayer than to release something mediocre in both modes.

    The only sig I need is actually spelled "cig".

    Byzandula
    • Re:Doom III (Score:3, Insightful)

      by noselasd ( 594905 )
      How the heck did you come to the conclution levels were not well designed ? It's goddamn DARK, I can't even see the levels.
      I know its supposed to be dark, but come on, this was no fun.
      • Re:Doom III (Score:5, Funny)

        by mausmalone ( 594185 ) on Friday October 22, 2004 @10:27AM (#10598398) Homepage Journal
        I think I may write a DOOM 3 text adventure. Here's the code.
        #include <stdlib.h>
        #include <stdio.h>
        #include <time.h>
        #inlcude <coniio.h> // I hope you have Turbo C

        int room(void)
        {
        char input;
        printf("You entered the room, which is well lit. Would you like to proceed? (y/n)\n");
        input = getch();
        if ((input == 'n')||(input=='N')) return 0;
        printf("The lights turned off. Would you like to turn on the flash light?(y/n)\n");
        input = getch();
        if ((input == 'n')||(input=='N')) return 0;
        printf("You see a monster, would you like to switch to the gun and shoot it? (y/n)\n");
        input = getch();
        if ((input == 'n')||(input=='N')) return 0;
        printf("You have killed the monster, and are moving on to the next room.\n");
        return 1;
        }

        int locker(void)
        {
        int lockercombo = rand()%1000;
        printf("You've found a PDA, would you like to listen to the messages? (y/n)");
        input = getch();
        if ((input == 'n')||(input=='N')) return 0;
        printf("Playing back message ... ");
        sleep(120000);
        printf("The combo for the locker is %d, would you like to open the locker? (y/n)\n", lockercombo);
        input = getch();
        if ((input == 'n')||(input=='N')) return 0;
        printf("You found some ammo and a medpack.\n");
        return 1;
        }

        void main(void)
        {
        srand(time(NULL));
        int stillrunning;
        do {
        if (rand()%10<2) stillrunning = locker();
        else stillrunning = room();
        } while (stillrunning);
        printf("You were killed by a zombie. GAME OVER\n");
        }
    • Re:Doom III (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Beeman82 ( 649709 )
      The thing about doom 3 is this. They never promised a revolution as far as the FPS genre goes. What they did say they would give us was a whole new experience in terror. Which I would have to argue they did, though in a particularly frustrating way of making us switch between flashlight and weapon. The Graphics engine for doom 3 is incredible, but it still could have used a bit more innovation as far as I'm concerned.
    • Re:Doom III (Score:3, Insightful)

      by ildon ( 413912 )
      You know, for me Doom 3 was exactly what I expected. The only real hype I saw from it was about the graphics, sound, and about it being scary. And it had all these things at or above the level I expected. I think players themselves were putting too much on Id due to their past success, putting their own expectations on the game without any cue from Id or Activision.

      I expected an action-horror FPS, and that's what I got. You may have been looking for a Quake1-style action-arcade FPS, or a Half-Life-style "w
  • Text of the story (Score:4, Informative)

    by Fr05t ( 69968 ) on Friday October 22, 2004 @08:43AM (#10597430)
    The site is already running slow. Here is the text incase it dies:

    "October 21, 2004
    Game Publishers: Stop Overpromising!

    Overhyped Videogames FableWhen Fable came out, everyone got to see if all the hype (and cool features expressed by Lionhead Studio head Peter Molyneux) is worth anything. Depending on where you go, you'll find glowing reviews to so-so reviews, mostly depending on if that person expected more (with good reason), or could just live with what the game actually provides. I personally feel that game reviews should be based on what the game has done right and wrong, rather than what I wanted to see, resulting in nitpicking every little detail.

    But in this case, is it wrong to expect more? The Gear Live editors present their case after the jump.

    Dorian: Look at companies like Nintendo, Valve and Bungie for instance.

    Nintendo almost never reveals much about their games before release. The bulk of the game is left for us to explore on our own, and I think most gamers are the better for it.

    Valve did the unthinkable, and for almost five years managed to develop Half-Life 2 without revealing anything until E3 right before last September's ill-fated launch (forget arguments about how ready they actually were).

    Bungie has been very tight-lipped about Halo 2, at least as far as single player is concerned. Outside of the 10 minute footage of New Mombasa from last year's E3, almost nothing has been revealed, leaving all the details about what was not in the first Halo: Online Multiplayer.

    We can probably think of other examples of game devs who kept their mouths shut and left most of their cards up their sleeves. But Lionhead Studios didn't manage to do that; they told us every single idea that popped up in their heads, as if they were brainstorming their ideas out in public. While not outright promising these features, most gamers were expecting more than what they got. Is that so wrong in this case?

    Also in the news is Polyphony Digital's long waited Gran Turismo 4, and the stripping of the online multiplayer mode. While they gave no exact reason, one can extrapolate that they couldn't get online working in time for the holidays, and Sony didn't want to let their potentially biggest seller release past the lucrative holiday season. So instead of delaying the game, just take out the mode and sell the "upgraded version" at a later date. While on the surface this sounds good, they haven't said whether the upgrade will be at budget pricing, full price, have a trade in for the old version, or allow for save file compatibility between versions. There are a lot of unknowns, and it's well within reasons for those who were looking forward to racing online come December to be disappointed.

    So, who's to blame when devs talk of features that don't ultimately make it? Does it all even matter?

    Well obviously, the game devs themselves should show a little more restraint whenever being interviewed, especially when the game is in a pre-beta state. At that point nothing is set in stone, and this very same thing can happen as with Fable. It might be hard to resist nowadays, in this instant information age we live in. (It seems like you can't click a few web pages without running into a movie or TV show spoiler or people, for lack of a better word, "pirating" the latest software or games, even before they hit the stores (also another topic for another day). But for the greater good, talking about only that which won't spoil the entire experience seems like the best way to go.

    As for you, the game players, the best way to take reading all these features and interviews on games is to take it all in stride. The only time you can honestly trust any report on a game is the actual review, so sit tight, don't read up too much on a certain game if you want to be surprised, and hope for the best. Worse case scenario, if the game isn't what you were expecting, either rent it or just don't buy it. Or do what every savvy game player does nowadays: v
  • by Moby Cock ( 771358 ) on Friday October 22, 2004 @08:45AM (#10597445) Homepage
    To be fair to the developers and publishers, there exists a culture (especially online) that craves details and information about these upcoming games. I think it can be argued that they are simply filling a demand that is placed upon them. Nintendo does effectively shy away from this pressure and should be commended for it. It must be a hard thing to come to terms with when developing a game. Should they release details to generate some buzz or play it cool and let the game stand on its own merits? As a sort of related aside I think that the guys making KOTOR2 have really found the balance. They release a few details but nothing that will give the story away or stop any of the 'drama' from being played out once the game is available. The most I've heard is the names of a few planets and characters. And the basic premise. These are the sorts of things the game will reveal in the first 5 minutes of play but it has whet my appetite.

    • As a sort of related aside I think that the guys making KOTOR2 have really found the balance. They release a few details but nothing that will give the story away or stop any of the 'drama' from being played out once the game is available.

      Yeah, but can they make a game that can be "played out" on the PC? I would just like for them to have a game that runs.

      I have a Athlon XP 1700, 512 RAM, and a new 128 MB Nvidia card, and the damn thing can't run it? It is practically a turn based strategy ga
  • Amusing (Score:3, Insightful)

    by vjmurphy ( 190266 ) on Friday October 22, 2004 @08:51AM (#10597489) Homepage
    I was amused that Peter Molyneux apologized AFTER the game had come out for a couple of weeks. He needed to come clean before people had plopped down their money on it. Having been burned by B&W, I wasn't going anywhere near Fable.
    • Re:Amusing (Score:3, Insightful)

      by MegaT ( 672432 )

      That saddened me, because Peter Molyneux really has nothing to apologise for. In the design process of ANY game, cool features are conceived, and tossed about, and then pulled because they used too much CPU time or weren't worth the amount of time they would have taken to implement.

      Peter Molyneux has a passion for computer game design. He will talk to anybody about the cool ideas. At no point does he ever 'Overpromise'; he rarely promises anything. He just tells the public what his design team are coming u

  • Over-expecting (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 22, 2004 @08:51AM (#10597490)
    This is a hard issue. The article does a pretty good job of explaining why over-promising can be a bad thing (although I'd be wary of using Nintendo as examples of good-practice, given that most of their games are just un-inspired remakes of previous ones). However, there is another problem that developers face, which isn't necessarily their own fault.

    This is the problem of their fans getting unrealistic expectations all on their own. There's been a stunningly good example of this recently, namely Doom 3. This game comes in for a lot of flak on slashdot games; it gets called a let-down, a flop, a sell-out and a glorified tech demo. It isn't any of these.

    I'd been following Doom 3's development, albeit sometimes from a distance, ever since it was first announced. So far as I can see, the end product was no different to what had been promised all along. The only significant feature to vanish was co-op play and I don't think that had ever been promised all that firmly to begin with. We'd been told to expect an atmospheric (and downright scary) single-player focussed FPS, updating the Doom games for modern hardware, with extremely limited multiplayer. I'd call this a pretty exact description of the game I played.

    However, because of ID's reputation and because the Quake series (much like the aforementioned Nintendo) has acquired a fan-base which often defies reason and logic in its zealotry, there had been an unjustified expectation that the game would me much more. Despite all the warnings about the multiplayer, I still remember the cries of anguish when the game turned out to be unsuitable as a platform for Quake-style deathmatch play. I remember the people who were infuriated that the game wasn't Farcry or Half-Life 2, with huge areas and ground-breaking AI. Is it fair to blame ID for this? No. They put out a decent game, not perfect, but very decent. I look forward to seeing a similar reaction when/if Raven's Quake 4 sees the light of day.

    Simple message: don't succumb to fanboydom. If you're waiting for a game, base your expectations on what the developers tell you (plus a healthy dose of scepticism), rather than your own aspirations.
    • Re:Over-expecting (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Coryoth ( 254751 )
      I agree entirely. I'm not a gamer, for the most part I just don't have the time or inclination. I was a huge fan of Doom way back when, and played Quake heavily when it first came out (and was a little disappointed - that one really was a tech dem and multiplayer game, the single player was largely tacked on) but haven't really played much of anything since besides the odd game of Starcraft or CS on the office LAN. I certainly don't follow the hype all that closely.

      Then I heard about Doom3 and thought i
  • by dbretton ( 242493 ) on Friday October 22, 2004 @08:54AM (#10597505) Homepage
    Hyoe?

    I'm always wary when Ed MacMahon is backing up a game.
    "I'm Ed MacMahon. Buy Halo2. Hyyoooooe!"
  • Money is what drives the game business, just like every business, and the more they hype it the more people who will buy it.
  • People have been saying that hype has always been there and you just have to read around it. People like us probably can but it's the little kids and everyone who want the games that are always disappointed. Most youngsters will go on for years about a game just because they've heard it's coming. And then the stupid sods will go out and buy it just because they've wanted it for years.

    And it's not just games... the AvP movie has been anticipated for years but in the end, it was just crap. Daikatana, Doo
  • by hivemind_mvgc ( 823238 ) <hivemind@mvgc.net> on Friday October 22, 2004 @08:59AM (#10597554) Homepage
    ...there's plenty of companies that usually deliver what they promise. The one that comes to mind immediately is Blizzard. I mean, have they made a bad game?

    What separates the good companies that deliver on their promises from the shitbad slackers that deliver a half-done product with missing features that you have to download 50 megs of patches to even play?

    It's not size. Companies as big as Sony Online Entertainment (most recently Star Wars Galaxies) and as small as Reakktor Media GMBH (Neocron 2) have all failed miserably to deliver on their promises and hype. You could assume that a huge company like Sony could hire competent managers, but that's obviously not true. But conversely, some smaller companies don't do any better either.

    This is something that merits more study. As the gaming industry grows, more and more non-gamers are involved with production of games -- especially in areas like marketing.

    These people probably don't understand fully how the "gamer" demographic thinks. They often don't understand that with the ubiquity of internet communications, people are gonna discover that a game is a lump of crap often the day it's released, or even before that if there's an open beta. Just google the title and read a few reviews . And if a game is asstastic, well, gamers have no brand loyalty. They'll happily tell a company to roll up their game, stick it in their ass, and set it on fire. And they'll do it publicly and vociferously.

    • by Alzheimers ( 467217 ) on Friday October 22, 2004 @09:34AM (#10597880)
      The one that comes to mind immediately is Blizzard. I mean, have they made a bad game?

      To be fair, Blizzard doesn't always deliver the knock-out punch on the first try. Their games always put the playability feature first, then work from there. The main thing that separates Blizzard from their competitors isn't being innovative (they aren't), but their consistent attention to detail. If they don't get it right at first (and believe me, they don't) they'll release countless patches until they do. For example, as recently as 10/28/04, they released a patch for Diablo II, which was first released 6/29/00 (yes, over *four* years ago).

      You might think their many updates and patches part of a rush-to-market mentality, but they've consistently delayed games until they were playable and enjoyable out of the box. It's their constant attention to fans (the BnetD fiasco excluded) after the sale that's made them so successful and so popular.
  • by EXTomar ( 78739 ) on Friday October 22, 2004 @09:01AM (#10597564)
    This appears to be a common problem in all softare. Development strives wirtes what is best in the time allowed while Marketing wants to promise what sounds like it will catch the eye and possibly lead to a sale. I see this all too often: Marketing makes deals and promises that Development can't sanely reach. This means either Development embraces insane amounts of work to reach the goal or they ignore Marketing and let the finger pointing begin if something goes wrong.

    Marketing is constantly making deals without realizing the feasiblity of making these deals. Development wants to make the most bulletproof features available which means less features. It has gotten to the point where selling "hype" is all Marketing can do because they view Development as something they can't control. Especially if there are commisions involved Marketing doesn't really care if they are writing checks Development can't cash.

    I am never surprised when this happens to games. I see this all of the time in the dull ISV sector where the markets are much smaller. Considering how much marketing there is in games now I can't imagine the insane pressures being thrown around.
  • by El Camino SS ( 264212 ) on Friday October 22, 2004 @09:01AM (#10597568)
    One thing you have to hand to Nintendo, they flourished the home console industry and has still survived when the market is being flooded by Sony and Microsoft money. I am not saying that Nintendo is in the poorhouse, but who can compete with Microcash when they spend billions (yes, billions with a B) to break the back of the video game market? Nintendo survives because they are clearly superior. They are the ones that have come up with darn near every innovation in the home console systems, and if they had put a disk drive on their machines like they intended to before they gave it up, we wouldn't even know who Sony or Microsoft is.

    Quickly, think of all of the developers that were stolen out from under Nintendo by Microsoft's checkbook. Five? Ten? A lot for sure. All of those developers. That would have killed everyone but Sony and Microsoft, who took losses on their machines for a long, long time. How many killer titles can you hand over to another company and still be alive in a competetive, hype-driven marketplace? Face it people, Nintendo is as healthy as they come when you have people throwing billions at you to topple you. Most of you wouldn't judge the quality of the car by the size of the manufacturer, so why do it with games?

    Oh, and by the way, Halo is just not THAT great. Sorry. I know for many of you this is the first time you have ever played against someone online, and you're a newlywed with the game, but others have been doing it for decades. I'm not saying that Halo sucks, it doesn't. I am saying that many of us can trace our online lineage back to Quake 2 and until you've swung away from your enemies with grappling hooks, or Tribes bombers, or whateever, you realize you've done this Halo stuff before. It is not original. It should not be hyped as original.

    It's only original to the ones that have never seen it before.

    Rock on, Nintendo. You give me games my wife would like to play.
    • but who can compete with Microcash when they spend billions (yes, billions with a B) to break the back of the video game market?

      They're not going to last forever.

      With the way the XBox division is losing them money, and rumors that the next XBox might not be backwards compatible, I wouldn't be suprised to see them take more than a little downturn in that area in a few years.

      And meanwhile Nintendo is still hanging in there with the console market, and absolutely owns the handheld market. I get the feeling
    • I am saying that many of us can trace our online lineage back to Quake 2

      Quake 2? What?

      Man, some of us can trace our online gaming lineage back to the original DOOM over a null modem cable.

      n00b. :)
  • If you ask someone often enough, they'll tell you what you want to hear

    Overpromising will cease when the press stops chasing after every rumour, because they know their readers are interested. It would help if the game-buying public didn't pore over every preview and hint, and want more details.

    Fat chance.
  • There are so many games out there that if you don't hype you won't recover the cost of making your games. For consumers simple ways to avoid buying crappy games. Play the demo and read the reviews. Don't just walk into the store and buy anything with a nice picture on the box
  • someone needs to tell this to management as well.
  • Perhaps, just perhaps, they will finally learn why every IT person I have ever known has a passionate hatred of the marketing department?
  • To sum this article up :

    So game publishers, stop overpromising. Let your games sell themselves, instead of your PR representatives. Have some faith in the developers talents, just like in the old days. Yes, your game may sell well, but when expectations aren't met you can expect the sequel not to do so well.

    I'm suprised with the mention of all these games (San Andreas/HL2/Halo2/Doom3), not one of these people brought up anything about piracy, which has run rampant with 90% of the titles mentioned. I c
  • I have been in IT for a relatively long time and yet I have not seen one developer who promised something that could not be done! Most of the time developers are on the conservative side because they know that no development process is perfect. However, things are different when it comes to marketing department...

  • Solon Heritage was supposed to have been released last year. And the fact that the end of Hegemonia is similar to the end of the 2nd Matrix movie and leaves you hanging....that was pretty lame to drop the project.
  • by RAMMS+EIN ( 578166 ) on Friday October 22, 2004 @09:18AM (#10597706) Homepage Journal
    ``gamers have become wary of those games which have major hyoe behind them.''

    There's a lesson in there. If something is surrounded by a lot of hype, this means that someone is trying to make you wait for their product, rather than going with a competitor's. If the hype is generated by the same group that produces the product, this is often indicative of the product being not that great. After all, if the product is really greater than the competition, people will come to use it anyway.

    Case in point: OS/2 versus Windows 95. OS/2 was 32-bit, robust, included a GUI, and provided compatibility with Windows 3, long before Windows 95 was released. During all that time, Microsoft made so much hype for Windows 95 that OS/2 was almost completely ignored. When Windows 95 was released, it touted 32 bits, improved stability, and compatibility with Windows 3. Windows 95 was such a fantastic improvement over DOS and Windows 3 that everybody switched.

    OS/2 got built-in networking and Internet support and various other improvements. But the Windows 95 users didn't notice, because they were too busy dealing with crashes. I've never seen OS/2 crash. It's one of those great systems (also BeOS) that were completely eclipsed by the hype generated for another product. I hate hype.
  • Gran Turismo 4 (Score:3, Interesting)

    by LoudMusic ( 199347 ) on Friday October 22, 2004 @09:34AM (#10597886)
    I think it's odd that the Gran Turismo series is such a huge seller, but when I talk about it outside of the core GT circles no one seems to care. Anyway ...

    GT4 is another one that hits the over promissing scenario. The said it would be online and it won't. They said it would be ready for Christmas 2003, it wasn't.

    Other comments on this topic are talking about the true product being hype. I guess that's true. When you go to a group that adores a certain game (Final Fantasy, Grand Theft Auto, Gran Turismo ...) they take every bit of media hype as the written law - even if it doesn't come from the game publisher. A certain amount of the hype does belong to the developer / publisher, but you have to keep in mind that the majority of the hype comes from "insider" sites and game enthusiast groups. "Fanatics", if you will. Then when the developer doesn't live up to the claims of the fanatics, the fanatics are let down and the game is viewed as a watered down version of what the developer promised, when in actuality they never claimed any such thing.
  • by Frag-A-Muffin ( 5490 ) on Friday October 22, 2004 @09:37AM (#10597909)
    Even a bigger problem sometimes is the hype of the hardware! Look at the PSP. Sounds like it should be better than the current generation home consoles. If that's not hype, I don't know what is!

    That's why I've NEVER believed ANY of the hype that surrounds these new systems/games that come out unless they're from Nintendo. For example. When they announced the wavebird, every GameCube owner peed their pants in anticipation. What does Nintendo do? Give out CONSERVATIVE numbers. They said it should last 100hrs and have a range of about 20 feet. What happens in reviews? [ign.com], well, turns out that 90 feet wasn't a problem and (the testers couldn't test battery life) but let me tell you from experience, I've only had to replace the batteries twice since I purchased mine.

    So, when Nintendo says the DS has a battery life of 8-10 hours like the SP, I have 100% faith that it will. When Nintendo says the range of the wireless on the DS is 30 feet, I can expect at least that, and a 95% chance it'll be over 50 feet. When Sony says the PSP should be able to play current PS2 games, I say, can you even fit a game of FIFA in before you need to plug it in?!?

    Have fun waiting for the overhyped PSP, I'll be with my buddies (and apparently total strangers!) playing wicked ass DS games.

    Sorry, that turned out to be more of a rant. Well I guess it is. I guess I'm ranting on all those game devs. that like to tell me one thing, and then deliver me crap [daikatana.com]. :)
  • by Agram ( 721220 ) <`ico' `at' `vt.edu'> on Friday October 22, 2004 @09:42AM (#10597955) Homepage
    Just as an example, look at Anno 1503 published by Sunflowers and distributed by EA. To this day they failed to provide multiplayer, mistreated customers who inquired about the status of the "patch" that never came, yet even now the demo available online still has a nice outtro screen screaming about the best "multiplayer" experience ever. Only after I had a bout with them and created a Website http://home.fuse.net/slipstreamscapes/ [fuse.net] in order to institute a class-action lawsuit, as well as after exposure here on Slashdot http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/02/13/213524 5 [slashdot.org], did they finally announce that no patch would ever be released. Ironically, they had plenty of time to create a single-player add-on in the meantime. Now they are supposedly working on a new sequel, again promising mountains and valleys...

    This trend is more of a rule than exception nowadays (I can think of at least dozen games in no time where I got burned in a similar fashion but never did anything about it) and we as investors in their products should finally stand-up and fight for our rights as consumers. In this case, there is enough of evidence to institute at least a lawsuit in a small claims court demanding money back for a product that did not deliver (especially in my case where I bought the game solely for the multiplayer experience).

    I used to buy at least 2 games per month, nowadays (partially because I am not so much interested in gaming any more) I do not buy games any more, mainly because I am sick and tired of the lies and misleading politics by the game publishers.

    It's about time to show these corporate bullies that we will not take this any more.
  • by Morpeth ( 577066 ) on Friday October 22, 2004 @09:59AM (#10598121)
    I think since the mmorpg market became so saturated - and highly competitive, the companies producing them are notorious for 'vapor features'. They all promise the game to be everything to everyone, but by the time it's released, what's delivered often falls very short. Or worse, they promise it in a later patch or expansion, which still often never comes.

    I didn't play SWG, but heard lots of complaints for friends who played about missing features, and promptly quit. I've played EQ, DAoC and CoH, and they were all guilty of it to varying degrees.

    I think a lot of mmorpg fanboys default response to this is "It's a work in progress, you need to be patient, they need to develop their story arc". I call bullshit on that, when I pay $40-50 for a game, then $10-15 a month subscription, I want it full featured from Day 1, not Day 180 or Day 365.

    I've been watching WoW and EQ2 for this, so far from the friends in both the betas, it sounds like WoW is delivering the features promised more than EQ2 is. We'll see.

    As one friend said, don't sell me a car, and then tell me the seats and tires will come later; or worse, are part of an additional package I need to pay for - when it should be standard equipment.

  • by Sheepdot ( 211478 ) on Friday October 22, 2004 @10:07AM (#10598205) Journal
    Regarding the comments made on HL2:

    For one, yes, there was a hack, and yes, the source was released. The game *was* overhyped though. I agree that Valve did work secretly, but the problem is that the developers really didn't have much done, as evidenced by the source that Ago supposedly stole.

    A good number of people think that it is arguable that he stole it. In fact, the logs from this "unknown" source were never verified. I agree with the article, but I don't think Valve is a great source of underhyping. Peter Molywhatever is pretty well known for hyping, though I don't imagine he ever really intends to hype the games.

    Black & White was a horrible game. Dungeon Keeper (not overhyped) was an excellent game. I think development time is what really matters. I get more fun out of playing new games developed for old engines (Freelancer) than new games developed for new engines (Doom3).

    I guess I value plot, story, and game interface more than I value all the fancy bells and whistles.
  • by supabeast! ( 84658 ) on Friday October 22, 2004 @12:48PM (#10599997)
    What do these guys want developers to do? Tell us the truth? That would make every video game press release look like this:

    "xyz Software announced , a knockoff of that adds two new features, five hundred new bugs, and a graphics slightly prettier than in the game just like it that you bought LAST year!"

    Video game hype is like pr0n models: you know that the body parts are (mostly) fake, and that they'll probably OD or commit suicide within five years, but hey, it's fun to get off on until the real thing comes along.

"I'm a mean green mother from outer space" -- Audrey II, The Little Shop of Horrors

Working...