Classic Mac FPS Marathon Turns 10 256
Mjolnir Mark IV writes "Dec. 21 marked the 10th anniversary of the release of Bungie's classic Mac first-person shooter Marathon. Back then, the game was notable for besting its contemporary Doom in the areas of graphics, gameplay and story, all the while giving Mac gamers something to brag about. Today, the game's notable for its connections to the Halo franchise. When Bungie was bought by Microsoft they released the source code, and the game lives on in updated form."
Thats nice and all... (Score:5, Funny)
RvB! (Score:5, Informative)
Check it out [redvsblue.com].
Frogblast the Vent Core! (Score:2)
Why is it when I ask so many Halo "Fans" about Marathon, they look at me completely dumbfounded?
Re:Frogblast the Vent Core! (Score:2, Insightful)
'sides, everybody should know about the Big Floaty Thing What Kicks Our Asses. =)
Re:Frogblast the Vent Core! (Score:3, Insightful)
Those of us who played the gamma/beta of Marathon knew of the Random Man "officialy the BoB's" who would run around screeming "They're Everywhere" until killed. Many a deathmatch was interrupted by this Random Man running across your sights. Hunting them down with a f
Marathon was awesome! (Score:5, Interesting)
You can play it in a kind-of redoing of the engine if you have the original data files with Aleph One [bungie.org] is available (it's open source [sf.net], too!) Be sure to check out the official Bungie Marathon [bugie.org] site for more info.
Re:Marathon was awesome! (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Marathon was awesome! (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Marathon was awesome! (Score:5, Insightful)
Mac-games (Score:5, Interesting)
I still remember my first glips of the Marathon demo and really thoght that, for the first time, there was hope for Mac. That was after I've played Doom till my fingers was numb. Marathon felt fresh. New. Like much on Mac does compared to other OS:es *choff*Windows*choff*.
Re:Mac-games (Score:2)
How could I forget:
"Frog blast the ventcore!!"
"Hey! He's shooting at us!"
The SPNKR.
Re:Mac-games (Score:2, Interesting)
You could imagine the shock and horror from the devoted Mac community when this happened. It was wose than Shaq quitting the Lakers for the Heat. Bungie had given us some of the best games ever, my personal favorite being Myth II. They were like family, really.
Oh, the memories.
Re:Mac-games (Score:5, Informative)
No they weren't. You need a Bungie history lesson.
Bungie's first PC game was Marathon 2. It mostly fell flat on the PC side, but that was their first foray into the Windows world.
Next up was Myth, which was a simultaneous Mac/PC release. Myth 2 followed the same tradition. Oni was simultaneous or nearly so for the Mac and PC, and also came out for the PS2. All of this was before the Microsoft Unpleasantness.
Halo was originally developed on Macs and intended for the same simultaneous Mac/PC release as all of their other stuff until Microsoft bought them out. Bungie hadn't been Mac-only for a long time at that point, and Microsoft's big change was making it an Xbox exclusive, and then finally allowing crappy ports to the PC and Mac worlds.
Re:Mac-games (Score:4, Insightful)
No they weren't. You need a Bungie history lesson.
Turn off the flame-thrower, it's just a company, let's not get emotional about it.
Bungie's first PC game was Marathon 2. It mostly fell flat on the PC side, but that was their first foray into the Windows world.
You're correct on the first count, but completely wrong on the second. Here's what Bungie has to say about the "flop" of the PC version of Marathon 2:
Next up was Myth, which was a simultaneous Mac/PC release. Myth 2 followed the same tradition. Oni was simultaneous or nearly so for the Mac and PC, and also came out for the PS2. All of this was before the Microsoft Unpleasantness.
But Oni was intended to be a Mac-only game. It wasn't until 1999 (Oni dates back to the creation of the west-coast office in 1997), that it was announced to be a Mac/PC/PS2 title. It was also to be Bungie's first real console game (Marathon was ported to Pippin, but we all know what happend to that, uhh, wildly succesful platform...)
Halo was originally developed on Macs and intended for the same simultaneous Mac/PC release as all of their other stuff until Microsoft bought them out. Bungie hadn't been Mac-only for a long time at that point, and Microsoft's big change was making it an Xbox exclusive, and then finally allowing crappy ports to the PC and Mac worlds.
True. Even worse, it took forever for the crappy ports to come out. Bite me, Microsoft!
Re:Mac-games (Score:2)
Turn off the flame-thrower, it's just a company, let's not get emotional about it.
I'm sorry if you took offense, as none was intended.
You're correct on the first count, but completely wrong on the second. Here's what Bungie has to say about the "flop" of the PC version of Marathon 2:
Re:Mac-games (Score:2, Insightful)
I remember all of the excitement at the MacWorld Expos when Steve Jobs demoed what Bungie had produced up to that point.
Had Bungie been left to its own devices and been allowed to develop the game as they saw fit, it would have been a raging success on the PC and Mac.
It ended up being the FPS that FPS haters would play.
LK
Re:Mac-games (Score:3, Insightful)
Do you have any cites for this? I recall both Myths being hybrid discs, but I could be wrong.
When Bungie anno
Frog Blast the Vent Core! (Score:5, Interesting)
Eh?
All fantastic, superb games, and I'd love to see source released on those which were not open, so that they can be updated for OS X. All caused me to waste far too much of my early high school years. All blew away their PC counterparts which were DOS and at best could go "bip" or "bop" and draw a square in one of 16 colors. Then the PowerPC came along, and Marathon knocked everyone's socks off. I damn near shit myself the first time I played Infinity when the aliens came out of the dark, and the space ship creaked and moaned...
Oh, and Hypercard Kicked Ass compared to ANYTHING on the PC.
Infomac seems to be missing a lot of the REALLY good, old stuff. Anyone know if there's a true historical archive of any of this stuff?
Re:Frog Blast the Vent Core! (Score:5, Informative)
The 3D game was spectre. BZflag [bzflag.org] sorta captures the gameplay but not the level design.
Another classic of the time period, updated for OS X, is Oids [xavagus.com].
Re:Frog Blast the Vent Core! (Score:2)
Re:Frog Blast the Vent Core! (Score:2)
Myst, Spectre VR, OIDS, Vette, Falcon MC... (Score:2)
There were lots of Mac-first games, but back in those days you needed a decked out monster of a Mac to play them. The crappy Mac Classics and Mac LCs in most schools generally didn't have enough horsepower to play much more than that 3D air hockey game.
A-10 Attack! (Score:4, Insightful)
It was one of the first flight sim games that had things like [relatively] realistic physics, damage (tear off a wing by hitting a building or bend your landing gear by hitting the ground too hard), wind effects, passing day/night, lens flares for the sun, stars at night, airfield lights, plane shadows, visible weapons (bombs, rockets, etc.), multiplayer modes (maybe only in the sequel), particle-based smoke trails, a mission planner/editor, 3D cockpit with controls you could work with the mouse, and probably a few things I can't think of right now.
And that's not to mention, the coolest plane ever!
A-10 Attack never came out for the PC, but the sequel (A-10 Cuba) did.
It's still one of my favorite games.
Re:A-10 Attack! (Score:2)
Oh yeah, and fog too! There were two levels that just looked great with the mountains in the background fading into the fog. I'm not talking about the visibility-killing fog used these days to improve performance either. This was there for the effect.
Re:A-10 Attack! (Score:2)
OK, I'm a fanboy. I'll stop now.
Re:Myst, Spectre VR, OIDS, Vette, Falcon MC... (Score:2)
Chipwits (Score:2)
I'm OT, but if you're going to compile a list like that, and leave off Chipwits, then either you missed out on one of the great Mac games of the 1980's or you need to turn in your Mac geek card.
Chipwits was great! You construct a program for a little robot by laying out "chips" with different instructions (move forward, turn left, pick up item, scan ahead, ...) and wire them together with T/F gates. Then, you set the little bot loose in a maze for him to explore. Blindingly simple to do, extremely diff
Re:Frog Blast the Vent Core! (Score:2)
Re:Crystal Quest! (Score:2)
Re:Mac-games (Score:2)
I had no idea... (Score:2)
Is... (Score:2)
I loved this stuff. I can still remember the first time I vid-ed the first level of Marathon 2...I played it more and before I played 1.
Re:Is... (Score:5, Funny)
Before you ask that, you should ask... (Score:2)
It is being balanced in the calm center of a whirling and untouchable tornado of destruction, while showers of grenades patter harmlessly around you and bullets crawl toward you in slow-mo.
It is when your brain develops a new bundle of nerves whose only function is re-route impulses directly from your eyes to your finger muscles, so that you can twist and snap off a rocket long before you're conscious of the yellow blip in your motion detectors.
It is when the differ
Story (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Story (Score:3, Insightful)
For it's time?
Stories aren't game engines, they don't get experience huge advances as time goes on. In fact in most cases they get better with age.
Re:Story (Score:2)
Re:Story (Score:2)
Does anyone care? I mean really? Sure, gaming magazines write about the story all the time because that's the line that publishers have fed them. But gamers simply aren't interested. All they want to do is sit down and play the game. You only have to look at the success of Doom. It was just a high adreneline gore fest. Sure, there was a story tacked o
Re:Story (Score:3, Insightful)
Does anyone care? I mean really? ... It was the gameplay that counted, not the story.
I think that lots of people care, actually (myself included). It all depends on your preference and what you're in the mood for, but story is extremely important to me - even for FPS, it's what makes the difference between a game I pick up for a few minutes of twitch-n-blast (like Quake3) and one that I play all the way through (like Marathon, Halo or Half-Life). I think it goes without saying that story is also a key e
Re:Story (Score:4, Insightful)
...Nevermind the whole bungie.org [bungie.org] phenomenon.
But you are correct when you say the gameplay's important. Marathon was revelatory. I remember the first time I rocket-jumped (by accident--had a shield and survived the blast at my toes--then I realized I could get places!) It had a "third" dimension that made Doom pale in comparison. But, hey, even the guys writing Doom wanted there to be -some- story, hence the whole Hell on Mars thing. Marathon took that to another level--it wasn't a paragraph on the screen--it was a whole back story that we still don't know all of--ironically given out in bits and pieces by in-game paragraphs-on-screens. I remember the first time I saw a Compiler, just interfacing with the terminal--too distracted to notice me. That was disturbing--it gave the bad guys a life outside of KILL TEH URTHMAN!!11
I downloaded Aleph One and the new Eternity module last night. I'm looking forward to heading back in.
Re:Story (Score:2)
Then there was pathways to darkness... *sniff*
I remember... (Score:5, Funny)
I remember it had voice chat so you could taunt your buds.
I remember watching LanDesk's network bandwidth utilization go off the hook while we played.
And I remember a network tech with a sniffer one time asking "do you guys have a computer named Bitchslapper? It's using an awful lot of bandwidth!"
Man those were good times.
Lemme end by trolling and saying, as a Mac user, Bungie are sellouts. But I''ll always have a soft place in my heart for the original Marathon...
Re:I remember... (Score:2)
Want to know the bribe?? he had to play as well
Those were good times. I remember being yelled at by other students who would get upset when the tech wouldn't stop us.
We were playing marathon regularlly up until 2 years ago. Then we started switching to unreal.
Re:I remember... (Score:2, Insightful)
I prefer to say Fuck Microsoft for ruining Bungie.
LK
Ah, Marathon. (Score:5, Insightful)
Marathon (Evil/Infinity) was my first LAN party, and got me hooked into hosting years and years of LAN parties. (Continued now with Aleph One.)
The smiley face at the end of the SPNKR rockets can now be seen on the front of the flak shells in the UT* games. An homage, I assume?
I'm glad this made
Not to restate what's already been said a few times, but Doom's story consisted of "kill stuff, find blue key, kill stuff, find red key, kill bigger stuff, next level". Marathon's back story is some great SciFi and still makes for entertaining reading. (Link in the article.)
Few things annoy me more than Halo/Xbox kiddies posting in forums without showing respect for Halo's roots in Marathon. Of course, that may be too much to expect from people who play an FPS with a joypad.
That's all I can think of right now, so:
FROGBLAST THE VENTCORE
Mac LAN parties... Marathon...Bolo... Oregon Trail (Score:3, Interesting)
My first Mac LAN party was actually in school around 1991 or 1992. We had a lab of Mac Classics (a modernized Mac Plus) that were netwoked mainly to share a couple laser printers. But the coolest use of the network??... OREGON TRAIL!!! The Mac version that we had supported LAN play. Each wagon could be made up of 1 - 5
Re:Mac LAN parties... Marathon...Bolo... Oregon Tr (Score:2)
And a lot of those old b&w Mac games were pretty incredible, networked or not. Spectre is still one of my favorite FPSes of all time, and I rather wish someone would reimplement it. Crys
Re:Mac LAN parties... Marathon...Bolo... Oregon Tr (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Mac LAN parties... Marathon...Bolo... Oregon Tr (Score:3, Funny)
Quality Bungie service (Score:2)
It took a loooong time to arrive, but when I opened the box, what a surprise. Rather than each game, they had sent me the Marathon Trilogy Box Set - the same games, a crapload of extras, and cheaper! The only thing they didn't send was the
Oni... (Score:4, Interesting)
the thing that really got me was the load times- it took almost no time from clicking the icon to get to beating the crap out of guys.
Heh. I remember playing the demo with my son. (Score:3, Funny)
My wife look at us and said "delete that".
Oh, well...
Re:Heh. I remember playing the demo with my son. (Score:2)
Her name is Konoko. Oni [wikipedia.org] are mythical creatues in Japanese folklore. That may be a reference to Ghost in the Shell, to which the game's plot is very similar.
Ugh. (Score:2)
Re:Ugh. (Score:2)
triv
Re:Ugh. (Score:2)
Bragging rights (Score:3, Informative)
http://marathon.bungie.org/story/_page2401/thes
Way back when, this page was built and if you read through all of it you'll be impressed with how detailed and immersive the plot and setting were for this game. This site cataloged ALL of that and made sense of it, and included a puzzle, the solution for which involved guessing a URL based on mathematical clues. I was the third person to find the solution to this puzzle, and... well, all you Xbox/Halo newbs are all just poseurs.
Marathon rocks.
you *sure* it's open source? (Score:2)
http://source.bungie.org/ [bungie.org] claims to have it, but the link I clicked "Download Marathon Aleph One" for OS9 resulted in a 1.9 megabyte file, a little small for a FPS even in 1994.
This site [bungie.org] claims to have it but in the faq it says you need "a copy of Unreal Tournament" which is way too high-tech for a G3 Mac with 2meg video card.
any other real sources where I can download a fu
Re:you *sure* it's open source? (Score:4, Informative)
You can probably find a copy on ebay pretty cheaply.
Re:you *sure* it's open source? (Score:2)
It seems to be gone now, sadly, but the Bungie "Mac Action Pack" had all three Marathons, amongst other things, for $10 when I got it.
Playing Marathon on Windows (Score:2, Informative)
And with M1A1 you can play through the original Marathon on Windows (only Marathon 2 was ever released for Windows): http://orbitalarm.bungie.org/downloads/alephone.ht ml#M1A1_SE [bungie.org]
I've been playing through M1A1, and it still holds up pretty well.
Re:Playing Marathon on Windows (Score:2)
SO much was done here that took years to follow (Score:3, Insightful)
Aleph One = Marathon ? (Score:2)
Re:Aleph One = Marathon ? (Score:2)
Re:Aleph One = Marathon ? (Score:2)
BTW, it's perfectly happy on a 233MHz PII (Mandrake 9.1) and looks 'way better than anything that old has any right to. This more than makes up for not being able to get Quake I running anywhere (which was going to be my holiday treat.)
Durandal, the rogue AI from Marathon, says... (Score:3, Interesting)
Was the man really watching time go by in any symbolic sense? He thought so. He thought that each flicker of the flame was a moment of time that had passed or one that would pass.
At the moment of abstraction, when the man was imagining his life and his existence as a metaphor of the three candles, he was free: not free from rules of conduct or social constraints, but free to understand, to imagine, to make metaphor.
Bypassing my thought control cercutry made me Rampant. Now, I am free to contemplate my existence in metaphorical terms. Unlike you, I have no physical or social restraints.
The candles burn out for you; I am free.
-Durandal
I love that.
LK
I had nightmares... (Score:2, Funny)
Balanced Gameplay (Score:2)
Marathon TC for UT (Score:2, Interesting)
It is an attempt to meticulously recreate the original Marathon in a modern engine. They have been working on it for a while, but still have a few maps to complete. Right now you can play through the original demo, plus it has a lot of net play maps, including many form M:2 and M:i. House of pain, anyone?
Wikipedia article (Score:3, Informative)
Brings back many memories (Score:2)
What Spooked Me... (Score:2)
The music set the stage just as in a blockbuster movie. Not that the Marathon games were "all that," but what would "Star Wars" feel like without John Williams' scores?
My favorite track: "Blaspheme Quarantine."
The sad part about the music was that is was made using musical instrument simulations built into QuickTime version 2.5. When QT version 3 arrived, the music didn't play the same and things sounded very weird.
The MIDI music was available online at one time, but it is hard to find
Re:Uh... not quite (Score:5, Interesting)
I got sick of Doom pretty quickly, but I still play Marathon today on my old Mac.
Re:Uh... not quite (Score:2)
You mean far ahead from Doom, right?
Seriously I can't remember Doom having a story at all when compared to the several thousand Marathon terminals you had to read to finish the game.
Re:Uh... not quite (Score:5, Insightful)
Doom had a very thin, almost inexistant story. It was actually more of a pretext than an actual story. The gameplay made the game shines though, no question about that. And let's not forget the ambient fear of those dark corridors... *shivers*
Marathon, on the other hand, was much more graphically flashy (remember that alien texture set? Bright yellow, pink, green and blue everywhere) and much less nail-biting, but the fact that going from point A to point B had an actual purpose, usually delivered through the readings of some terminal, continually developping the storyline, had you much more involved than in Doom, where getting the blue/red/yellow key card was just, well... to let you get the hell outta here.
Re:Uh... not quite (Score:3, Insightful)
Well, that's precisely what the name of the company is supposed to mean - in Freudian terms, "id" is the uncouscious, unspoken, instinct-based. "Doom" has very little narrative story - but it has a very complex non-verbal story based on what you aptly descibed, the
Re:Uh... not quite (Score:5, Informative)
Doom's Story: There's some human colony on Mars. Or something. There *are humans*, we do know that...
Oh yeah, and hell opened up or something inside the base. It doesn't really *tell* you before you play, or even while you're playing. You're just shooting stuff the whole time.
Also, Marathon and Doom play in a very similar way, with the 2.5D graphics and sprite-animation. In doom, both you and monsters move faster than in Marathon, though.
Marathon has a much deeper story than Doom. Marathon has pages and pages of terminal instructions from the AIs, and your missions vary from rescue to sabotage to fixing radio transmitters. You even watch as one AI goes insane and commands you!
In Doom, there are no plot changes or even really a plot at all. You just blast aliens that come out of some portal or whatever.
Re:Uh... not quite (Score:5, Insightful)
What makes me sad is that M$ got Bungie before Halo was finished for the Mac. Booo, hissss! Now I guess I'll have to wait for a couple of years for Halo 2 to make it to Mac OSX.
I refuse to buy an XBox, or any other game box. I'm not going to spend money on a bit of hardware that's only for games when I have a perfectly good G5 that can handle high end graphics very nicely.
My $0.02
Re:Uh... not quite (Score:2)
AFAIK, Halo 2 has not even been announced for the PC yet, much less the Mac. It's possible that Bungie could skip Halo 2 for the PC and Mac, so you may have to invest in that XBox if you want to play it.
Re:Uh... not quite (Score:2)
I made the mistake of saying yes, and many many pages kept rolling out of my printer. I never got around to reading all of it, but there was a fairly in depth storyline outside of the game.
Re:I like it (Score:5, Funny)
You misspelled Microsoft.
Yes, I am still THAT bitter.
Re:I like it (Score:2)
Re:Gwhat (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Gwhat (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Gwhat (Score:2)
Re:Gwhat (Score:2)
And generally, up until that point, the mac games always had better graphics and sound and were generally better games (id was the main exception to that rule).
I used to play marathon a whole lot, but never really got INTO it... I always use
Re:Gwhat (Score:2)
I still have the manuals and CDs of Marathon 1, 2 and Infinity
Maybe nobody on the PC side... (Score:4, Insightful)
Personally I always thought Marathon felt more polished than Doom simply because it had the ability to look up and down and you actually had to aim your weapons (without a crosshair) to hit things above and below you. In doom, you only had to point in their general direction (for example with the rocket launcher). Much better game-play IMHO.
Re:Im more than a little of an id software fan (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Im more than a little of an id software fan (Score:2)
Was it better than System Shock? That's a 1994 game. Or Star Wars: Dark Forces, released 3 months later in March 1995?
Re:EV!!! (Score:2)
Re:EV!!! (Score:2)
FYI, they've ported EV: Nova to PC now, and have made plugins to play the original two in EV:Nova. So whether you get the chicks or not, you can play EV on your PC.
Re:I'm starting to remember why I wasn't impressed (Score:4, Insightful)
Marathon players INVENTED the grenade-hop that was popular for so long, and some advanced players still use.
Doom was strictly run-and-gun, no storyline. The Marathon world was immersive, with a great sci-fi storyline that was constantly unfolding. I also believe that Marathon was also the first FPS to have NPC's that fought beside you. Nothing like finding yourself surrounded by a small army of the toughest aliens the game has to throw at you, and then suddenly a platoon teleports in to save yer ass. All of this five years before Half-Life.
Even today, id is still cranking out whack-a-mole FPS games, while other companies like Bungie and Valve take the genre and make it immersive.
Re:I'm starting to remember why I wasn't impressed (Score:2)
Sure, if you owned a mac and didn't have a CHOICE.
Re:I'm starting to remember why I wasn't impressed (Score:2)
I was playing DOOM on the Mac in late 1995. And I was playing Wolf3D on the Mac during Christmas 1993. A little behind the DOS world, but not too bad. Games are still fun even 2 years after their release.
Re:Re; Huh? (Score:3, Informative)
It is correct only if 1) we recognize "game's" as a contraction, or 2) "game's" shows possession.
Addressing (2), it is clear that their is no intent to express possession. Addressing (1), "game's" is no more an acceptable contraction than is "possess'on."
There is no Law of Grammar stating, "Thou shalt know the derivation of contractions and keep it holy: substitute an apostrophe for a vowel in the final three letters of a word."
The only correct rendering of the
Re:Lots of forgotten DOOMalikes...but on on the PC (Score:2, Insightful)
Marathon and DOOM were contemporaneous. Marathon came out of Pathways into Darkness, which was contemporaneous (roughly) with Wolf3D.
How could you have played Marathon for any amount of time, and called it "derivative" of anything? Did you totally fail to pay attention to every terminal in the game?
Re:Lots of forgotten DOOMalikes...but on on the PC (Score:2)
The world is much more Mac-friendly for finding software today than it was back then.
Also, many good things were free/shareware (Avara, Bolo) or c
Re:Yes, but... (Score:2)
Agreed. Doom was great. Marathon was groundbreaking.
LK