EA's Profits Up, Workers Get Layoffs 436
Gamespot and GamesIndustry.biz has the news from yesterday's conference call where EA CEO Larry Probst reported higher earnings for his company in Q3, despite a small yearly decline. He also held forth on the future cost of next-gen games, which in his opinion will likely stay as high as $50 and could perhaps fetch more on retail shelves. Just before this story was to be published, Tim Butler wrote in with the news from 1Up.com that EA was laying off members of its LA studio. From the article: "According to sources close to the company, Electronic Arts is currently in the process of laying off between 50-70 team members from its minty-fresh new EA LA office. The teams affected worked on the poorly-recieved GoldenEye: Rogue Agent and the forthcoming Medal of Honor: Dogs of War FPS titles." Update: 01/27 06:34 GMT by Z : Update to the layoff article: "The first step is to rebalance the team. This has required us to let go 60 people -- from many different teams. There is no focus on any one team or any one class of individuals. It's a studio-wide thing to reset the business fundamentals and get the studio to the next level."
Team Balancing ACT 2005 (Score:5, Insightful)
After speaking to Neil Young, General Manager of the EA LA studio, it's now clear that the confirmed 60 layoffs are not heavily confined to one team or another, countering early rumors that the GoldenEye or Medal of Honor teams were specifically targerted -- countering the implication that the underperformance of certain games might have been the catalyst.
Maybe EA is shaking its developers up for the foreseeable battle with TakeTwo?
And it's undeniable that EA is in a good position to pull this kind of team-balancing stunt, because there are simply too many willing-to-work-25-hours-a-day multimedia graduates. If you come across an apple tree full of apples, you'll surely pick the best ones too.
Re:Team Balancing ACT 2005 (Score:4, Funny)
So there really is life on Mars?
Re:Team Balancing ACT 2005 (Score:2)
Are you saying the mars rovers have provided us with evidence that EA is laying people off? I thought it was the LA office, not the Mars office.
Re:Team Balancing ACT 2005 (Score:2)
Re:Team Balancing ACT 2005 (Score:2)
Yes, a quick google search taught me that much. I thought I'd try to make a joke...clearly I should have put an LOL after it so every one understood?
Re:Team Balancing ACT 2005 (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Team Balancing ACT 2005 (Score:3, Interesting)
You can find anybody to work for any amount you wish to pay. The "best ones" != the ones that work the longest hours. Someone once said if you can't get it done in 35 hours a week you are not qualified for the job. Insane job description notwithstanding.
revolt against executives? (Score:3, Insightful)
They probably weren't right. But...
But it seems to me that perhaps a random lynching or two of scrooge-ish CEOs by angry ex-employees might deliver a potent message to any prospective pursuants of this squeeze-then-kill strategy. You know, make them think twice or somesuch...
Re:revolt against executives? (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm sure it would. Unfortunately, that message would almost surely be: ``Hire in India, so they can't reach you when you lay them off.''
You think offshoring is popular _now_? Just wait.
Re:Team Balancing ACT 2005 (Score:3, Insightful)
And then throw half of them in the trash? Oh, you mean they waited until after the game was done to realize these weren't the best candidates for the job? That's convenient. Why not just call it a temp job?
Re:Team Balancing ACT 2005 (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Team Balancing ACT 2005 (Score:4, Insightful)
Well, this seems to be what the industry is moving towards, and it's honestly not such a bad thing.
The film industry and in fact most creative industries operate on a project-to-project basis. You're hired for a specific project, you work like mad for six months, you make a year's worth of money during that time and then you're done. You then shop yourself around to other producers and try to get yourself attached to another project. Or, you take six months off and recharge.
This makes most creative industries pretty cut-throat, but it has a couple of positive effects. First, it keeps creative professionals from being too overworked, which as we all know is a huge problem in the games industry. Right now, the industry operates like a project-based industry but with permanent employees, so the workers don't ever get that break when projects end. Second, it hopefully causes the cream of the crop to rise to the top, because it's sort of a Darwinian system. The strong survive, the weak can't get themselves attached to new projects and eventually find other work. Of course, it doesn't always work out that way in any creative industry - the most creative minds are not always great at networking, for one thing. But it does ensure at least a basic level of competence in the industry, which right now is lacking (I think we can all agree that the technical quality of games these days is really all over the map).
If there really is a transition within the industry to become more like the film or other similar industries, then once it's complete I think workers will actually be better off. There will still be permanent workers and plenty of them, but, like the film industry, they will mainly be in marketing and administrative positions, which are often (though not always) both lower stress and higher paying than development or production jobs are today. The pay per project of developers will actually go up, because there will be an actual incentive for developers to recruit top talent for top projects, and the number of total hours worked per year for developers will go down - unless someone's a real coding rock star who's in high demand and chooses to simply move straight on from one tough project to the next.
Again, plenty of industries already work like this and it makes more sense than asking poorly-paid, often untalented full-time employees for 24/7 devotion to the company. Weed the untalented out of the industry, pay the talented better and give them some more time off. If they've got the talent and some basic interview skills, they'll have no problem finding more work in such a system.
Re:Team Balancing ACT 2005 (Score:3, Interesting)
Not necessarily....but it's accurate, unlike your statement.
Oh, we should feel better they only screwed 60 people out of their jobs for no reason at all.
Again, better or not, that's debatable....but your statement was again, inaccurate. Didn't you read the article or the post you replied to that pointed the information out?
Can you substantiate your claim that 60 people got "screwed" out of their jobs for no reason at all? Or is this just more angry anti-corporate ranting that pr
Re:Team Balancing ACT 2005 (Score:2)
Yes, because we can always blame our unethical decisions on somebody else. I'm particularly fond of the "if I don't do it, they'll find somebody who will" excuse that goes all the way to the very top.
Truth is, you are responsible for your choices, how ever many apples there are on the tree.
Re:Team Balancing ACT 2005 (Score:2, Interesting)
shmaybe..
And it's undeniable that EA is in a good position to pull this kind of team-balancing stunt, because there are simply too many willing-to-work-25-hours-a-day multimedia graduates. If you come across an apple tree full of apples, you'll surely pick the best ones too.
Maybe they're getting ready to ship development overseas, too, it's not beyond possibility, as we've seen all too much of in IT and Engineering.
Why pay
Re:Team Balancing ACT 2005 (Score:3, Interesting)
However, there's another historical theory that says newbies get less vacation time, vesting, and so on. So it may also be that senior employees are the actual "dead weight" by some straaaaange coincidence.
If the game was bad (Score:3, Interesting)
Why should they be carried by better producing teams if they couldn't?
Re:If the game was bad (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:If the game was bad (Score:2)
Golden Eye: Rouge agent was
just. plain. friggen. terrible.
Re:If the game was bad (Score:3, Funny)
I gotta believe that a cross dressing Bond would have attracted a larger audience...but that's just me. Or did you mean rogue agent?
Re:If the game was bad (Score:2)
Oh no! (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Oh no! (Score:3, Insightful)
I'd say that's pretty "evil"...
Re:Oh no! (Score:3, Interesting)
And I'm sure the people in charge at EA feel really bad about it as they deposit bag after bag of money into the bank.
I'd be shocked if the US doesn't lose 50% of its programming/development jobs over the next 15 years. There's virtually no reason to keep the majority of them here in the states except quality.. and quality is proving to be no reason at all. Of course, some will still survive, but The History Channel still finds a modern day blacksmith and put him on TV
Re:Oh no! (Score:5, Insightful)
Of course EA is acting like a business. I am upset about people getting fired in all positions when their company is making profits not because this doesn't benefit the hierarchy within the corporation, this is logical for those at the top who value strength in the stock market as well as long term profits for themselves.
What sickens me is that we live in a world with an economic system where the most logical thing to do when your profits are up is to fire workers.
Just because something is logical for those doing it, does not inherently make it "normal" in the sense that human beings are naturally inclined to do it, nor does it make ethical.
Re:Oh no! (Score:2, Insightful)
You're completely missing the point, and probably have a really wrong-headed view of what makes an economy work, or at least what keeps people putting investment money into companies in the first place. EA wouldn't exist at all without its original and ongoing investors.
What you're not getting is that the only reason EA's profits grow is because they consist
Re:Oh no! (Score:4, Insightful)
Thats why people hate EA, they are putting people out of work just for the rights to videogames.
Take your company public, EA could buy it out from you, and own everything you work for.
Thought experiment. (Score:3, Insightful)
One has 100% "original and ongoing investors" and no workers.
The other has 100% workers and no "original and ongoing investors".
Which has a chance of succeeding?
I ask this question to point out that the workers are very important to a company's operations. Moreso than the investors. ( note, investment is good, yada yada, etc, etc. but put it in perspective, workers *and* investors make the economy work ). EA also would not exist without it's workers.
Re:Oh no! (Score:5, Insightful)
And that, right there, is the big problem that causes so many people to complain about big corporations: They have come to favour short term quarterly profits over long term sustainable profits. If you look at most complaints, from environmental, to labour, to political, when you pare it down it is occuring because companies are considering their short term future but not bothering to look at the long term results.
Jedidiah.
Re:Oh no! (Score:4, Interesting)
not all businesses are alike. pursuing profits isn't mutually exclusive with treating its employees with respect.
the way EA is doing business is one way, and it's their way of doing things. personally, i'd never work for or buy products from company that seems to show absolutely no compassion in its business practice or for its employees. that's my way of doing things in response to such companies. and i doubt that i'm alone.
Re:Oh no! (Score:2)
Re:Oh no! (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes. And that's the point. (Score:3, Insightful)
If companies have the rights of people, why shouldn't I expect them to behave as I am expected to? Perhaps that's the point - companies and their investors get the benefits of an entity with the rights of a person and which is exempt from the responsibilitie
This is Not a Layoff (Score:5, Interesting)
This is an invitation to enter the field of merchandising the games they built directly to consumers at the retail level. WalMart, Best Buy and Target are all hiring, and can use people knowledgable about the games themselves.
Seriously, how much money does that company make from building these games? All the hard work, blood, sweat and tears that go into being an EA employee and this is all they have to give their developers. And you know their executives are going to receive higher bonuses this year for trimming the fat.
I guess all we can say is thank you for the nedless hours of high-tech distraction your guys have provided us, at least the gaming community appreciates you.
M
gaming market is $10 billion (Score:2)
Re:This is Not a Layoff (Score:4, Insightful)
They are making profits.
If they're talented, they'll find new employment.
So they can get fired again. I gotta ask: when do we get real jobs? Not bullshit temp work, but a REAL FUCKING JOB?
What's wrong with that?
Nothing, until their car gets reposessed and the bank forecloses on the house.
Nothing at all.
Re:This is Not a Layoff (Score:3, Insightful)
Losing your job is a fact of (American) life. It happens to almost everyone, maybe it's because someone in their family is sick and they need to move back home. Maybe it's because their spouse got a good job, and they had to move. Perhaps it's because they did a terrible job. It could even be because the company couldn't afford them.
If they are talented, they will get work again. If not, then maybe
Re:This is Not a Layoff (Score:5, Insightful)
Fine. Then say so. Don't tell people "work hard, get an education and get a good job." Tell people the American dream is "they'll fire your ass."
If not, then maybe they don't belong in their current field?
And who makes that decision? Oh, the same people who just got through firing several dozen employees? Yeah. No problem there.
There are thousands of thousands of average companies that hire average employees to do average jobs.
But I thought they had to be talented?
If their car got reposessed and their house foreclosed, whos fault is that?
Hey, they showed up and did their job. They held up THEIR END OF THE BARGAIN.
It behooves a person to ensure he/she can afford an item they own, be it a car, house, motorcycle or television.
That's why they worked their ass off to get a good job.
Re:This is Not a Layoff (Score:5, Insightful)
This comes down to whether they were on contract to do just that job or whether they were full time employees. Before you say "sure sure, thats just being pedantic" hear me out
If they were contracted to do just that job, then they would have expected to be paid for a short term job ie. a higher pay than a permanent employee. If they were a full time employee, then part of the bargain of the employee accepting lower pay than the contractor is the implication made by the company that by accepting the lower pay there is greater job security.
I guess what Im getting at is that if a company does not want employees on for long periods, then it should not offer permanency to staff. If it does offer permanency with the knowledge that it plans to downsize the employee in the forseeable future then it is being dishonest as it is promising permanency only with the view to reduce how much it has to pay.
Dont want permanent employees - only hire contractors. That way both sides know what to expect from the arrangement.
Re:This is Not a Layoff (Score:3, Insightful)
LOL. Sorry, I left that $200,000 I'd saved up in my other pants. Can you spot me?
It's certainly easy to play armchair quarterback when you're not the one in trouble or don't know those who are. I knew plenty of extremely well qualified individuals who lost their job during the last bubble burst, and some of them still ha
Re:This is Not a Layoff (Score:3, Insightful)
They are not a charity organization. If they identify employees who are not pulling their weight, they are not obligated to keep them, just because the company happens to be in the black. It is every employees' responsibility to continuously prove their worth, to generate value for the company.
So they can get fired again. I gotta ask: when do we get real jobs?
Why don't you start by taking responsibility for your own career? If you don't like being at the whim of those who em
Goldeneye: Rogue Agent (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Goldeneye: Rogue Agent (Score:2)
It's almost as bad as what happened with Napster (taking a famous name and rebranding it on something else for $$)
the person who should be fired for goldeneye.. (Score:5, Interesting)
BOFHs writing games? Yeah right, I hope his ass was canned.
Re:the person who should be fired for goldeneye.. (Score:2)
Re:the person who should be fired for goldeneye.. (Score:4, Informative)
Worst companies to work for, Top 500 (Score:2)
Not the first company you can think of! (Score:5, Funny)
Replying with Microsoft, gets me modded as Funny or Flamebait.
Replying with SCO, gets me modded as either Troll or Insightful.
Replying with IBM gets me modded as Overrated.
So that leaves HP doesn't it? I can't keep up with who is our friend this week on slashdot.
Re:Not the first company you can think of! (Score:2)
Re:Not the first company you can think of! (Score:2)
Re:Not the first company you can think of! (Score:3)
I'll say it right now (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm bitter about today's PC gaming.
Re:I'll say it right now (Score:5, Funny)
Really? You sure do a nice job covering that up; It's hardly noticable.
Re:I'll say it right now (Score:2)
Why, in my day we had good video games, not like today's kids, what with their tricked out cars, etc.
There are good games out there and bad games. If you like a game, play it. If you don't, don't play it, don't buy it, don't buy any more games from that company.
Re:I'll say it right now (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm all in favour of a good rant now and then, and I think he did it well...
Re:I'll say it right now (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I'll say it right now (Score:3, Funny)
Re:I'll say it right now (Score:2)
my appologies for running out of mod points.
Re:I'll say it right now (Score:2, Funny)
Re:I'll say it right now (Score:2)
As one of my favorite radio show hosts would put it. Booooooooooooooooogus! Nowadays, Duke Nukem 3D, Quake 1 & 2, Doom (the original) aren't cutting edge. However, back then, guess what, they were! Sure you didn't need to keep upgrading your computer's graphics card, but that's because, generally, there wasn't one, at
Re:I'll say it right now (Score:2)
It's a video game company for christ's sake. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:I'll say it right now (Score:3, Funny)
Um. If your balls are attached to your legs instead of your crotch, you need to see a doctor.
Re:I'll say it right now (Score:2)
Obviously (Score:2)
My company (Score:2)
2004 profit (not revenue): $200m
Hours worked per week: 60-70
Bonus: $600 (in gift certificates, not cash)
Re:My company (Score:2)
Re:My company (Score:2)
Sweatshop 2005 (Score:5, Funny)
I'd play it.
Re:Sweatshop 2005 (Score:2)
You know (Score:5, Insightful)
But each time anyone attempts to emphasize the fact that business has turned its back on just about everything except its quarterly earnings, we get "nobody owes you a living so get over it."
The fact is, it is wrong to fire people like this. It is absolutely wrong. These companies are damaging, and in a lot of cases destroying the careers of people who work for a living. It isn't fair and it isn't right.
EA has no problem investing millions and tens of millions to build colossal glittering corporate edifices where they can hold meetings about whom to fire this week. But on payday they claim costs are too high.
W-4 employment is obsolete.
Re:You know (Score:2, Insightful)
No, but it is capitalism. The problem is that the people capitalism works for are the people that can afford to buy the laws that they want, which make sure that capitalism works for them and not ordinary people who can't afford to do the same thing because capitalism doesn't wrok for them, so they don't have the money blah blah blah.
As you pointed out, anyone that complains gets the old mantra of "nobody owes you a living", which ignores the fact that that is exactly the
Anyone else say "screw em"? (Score:5, Insightful)
That being said, after reading all of the crap that EA has been putting their employees through, I refuse to buy a game from them anymore. The last sports game I bought was Tiger Woods Golf 2004 for my PS2, and that WILL be the last game I'll buy from EA. Period. I refuse to give my money to a company that gets away with the slave labor antics and rediculous headcutting that EA has graced us with. While all those 100-hour-a-week programmers get sent to unemployment, EA's CEO still gets his 7-figure salary and a fat bonus. And YES, I realize that my Old Navy jeans are made in China and my polo shirt was made in some third-world country. Exploitation goes on worldwide, and I've come to terms with it. This is just one battle that I choose to let affect my purchasing decisions.
So basically EA, fuck you. I'll take my $100 a year that I would have spent on your products and go to one of the two or three remaining competitors left in console gaming. Or maybe I'll go buy some basement-made games like Uplink instead. Or maybe I'll just say screw you all and go buy used NES games, which still entertain me way more than your 'Sports Title $YEAR' titles ever will. Either way EA, you can kiss my money goodbye.
Tool of the media (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't want to have to defend EA here, but do we really know if they're worse than the rest of the industry? I'd never work for a company like that, but let's remember that this whole thing started from the blog of a wife of an EA programmer. Now we have slashdot posting everything they do. I'm not saying they *aren't* the antichrist, but let's actually consider first whether there's some manipulation or just plain shoddy reporting at fault too.
Re:Tool of the media (Score:3)
Yes, they are.
Sure, sometimes a small studio might fall into similar work habits and patterns, especially if they are spiraling into debt or massively behind schedule. But it's not some kind of mistake that EA is evil towards its lowly developers - it is completely intentional and institutionalized, and it is done on a truly massive scale that very few other companies could match. EA is hugely pro
Re:Anyone else say "screw em"? (Score:3, Insightful)
I'd rather see people stop buying EA PC games because frankly, the overall quality of them just sucks. It took Battlefield 1942 around a years worth of patches before it hit what I would have called "release quality". Battlefield Vietnam, built on basically the same engine, was released on an EARLIER VERSION of the engine, missing many of the key features that BF1942 h
One can only take so many (Score:2)
Please DON'T make any more WW2 games until you got some truly new amazing technology to show. It has been done to death.
If there only had been made one tenth of that in the Halflife universe, I'd be happy.
Nothing wrong with making a game series, a interactive story, but I am sick and tired of WW2 weapons and storylines.
Having all those expantions with little new gameplay does not help building a solid server base on the internet for multiplayer
Re:One can only take so many (Score:3, Interesting)
Exactly. BF42 ... a great game. But when I look on the shelves and see what to me look like just clones everywhere I think "why bother ... I've had that experience already". Not fair on the developers of those other games but its just human nature. It seems to me, from my limited view, that EA makes just variants of a small set of game types, yeah they're well made and all but if I'm going to plonk down hard plastic for a game I don't want something like I already have. Do I intend to buy more EA? Well mayb
Prices (Score:5, Interesting)
I can already tell you that if every next-gen EA game comes out on the shelves at a $50+ price point, I'll simply turn to other games (or, more slyly, wait until the games appear used - in which case EA gets no profit out of the resale). They may hold certain niches, but they don't own the market
Re:Prices (Score:4, Interesting)
I remember reading there was similar debate in the industry about DVD pricing, some studios (Disney? Fox?) thought DVDs should be cost far more than the current $20 because movies budgets were increasing. Instead the low price for DVDs turned out to be a real boon for the industry.
Hey we should thank EA for this one. (Score:3, Funny)
"As a good-will gesture, EA has cooperated with our demands and released two groups of hostages, who obviously seemed overexhausted to deliver inferior products. The hostages are currently under rehabilitation (read as: Finding a better job). Due to the fact that this good-will gesture resulted in profits for the company, EA decided that it will release more groups of hostages in the course of the year. Maybe they're not so bad after all.
And here's Mike with the weather."
I live about a mile from the offices (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:I live about a mile from the offices (Score:4, Insightful)
Nothing beats a reliable paycheck unless it's a reliable paycheck in a healthy work environment. A good boss is one that lets you get out after you've put in your honest day's work, and also treats you well. The overlords make all the difference.
Of course (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Of course (Score:2, Troll)
EA did not solicit an exclusive contract!
The NFL announced that it was going to SELL an exclusive contract, and only one company could win it. So of course EA had to bid, or they were sunk.
Don't blame EA (whatever other evils they have performed) for the NFL's crap.
monopoly? (Score:2)
Just think... (Score:4, Funny)
The Big One (Score:4, Funny)
Become a consultant, for fuck's sake! (Score:3, Funny)
Six months later, I'm raking in $8100 a month and surprisingly no one questions my age. I have two patents in the works, and I'm on the verge of renting an office down the street so I can walk to work. I and only I am responsible for my own success or failure.
Life rocks!
Re:Become a consultant, for fuck's sake! (Score:3, Funny)
Ironic (Score:3, Informative)
ABOUT OUR COMPANY: We're an association of electronic artists who share a common goal. We want to fulfill the potential of personal computing. That's a tall order. But with enough imagination and enthusiasm we thing there's a good chance for success. Our products, like this progra, are evidence of our intent. If you'd like to get involved, please write us at:
Electronic Arts
2755 Campus Drive
San Mateo, CA 94403
It sucks what happens when the f'ing suits take over. Oh how I long for the golden days...
Re:What's With the Obsession Over EA???!! (Score:2)
I don't really care to know that EA made a profit! Oh noes, a game company made a profit! Layoffs? That's a part of life...and no offense to those 60 or so people but this is hardly news.
Frankly, I don't even see anything newsworthy in the whole summary...but apparently that's just my opinion and one not shared with at least one person.
Yeah, right (Score:5, Informative)
Hey, what's this? Anonymous Coward? Let's see who's hiding behind that mask!
(removes mask from Anonymous Coward)
*GASP* It's some guy hired by EA!
"Yes, and if you hadn't unmasked me, i'd probably had been successful at shutting up those meddling kids!"
Another case solved!
Re:What's With the Obsession Over EA???!! (Score:2)
Re:What's With the Obsession Over EA???!! (Score:5, Insightful)
As far as your comment that this is "certainly not stuff that matters to most people here," this is, in fact, important to a lot of people here. This is news that actually affects people. It's certainly much more significant than "Oregon's Governor Backs Open Source Development" or "Running Windows Viruses Under Linux" as I'm sure the number of people who live in Oregon or the number of people who want to run Windows viruses under Linux is much lower than the number of gamers in the world.
It was all I could manage not to mod you down, as I seriously don't think something so uninformed should be modded +5. However, I really don't like to mod people down, so I'm saving my points to mod up more worthwhile comments.
Re:What's With the Obsession Over EA???!! (Score:2)
(doesn't mean I'm not going to play them though. Long live warez sites
Re:What's With the Obsession Over EA???!! (Score:3, Insightful)
So exactly what company in America do you buy from that has never laid off people?
EA is the Microsoft of the gaming industry. (Score:2)
To look at this and say innovation is dead within the industry is silly.
Re:EA is the Microsoft of the gaming industry. (Score:3, Informative)
EA's The Sims is a Maxis creation. While EA did buy Maxis, The Sims was originally a Will Wright creation, and was not a "star product" like others were. GTA is a Rockstar game also; published by Take-Two (perhaps in the same position as Maxis and EA)..
Don't confuse publisher with developer. While the publisher will often fund the developer's projects (and and own
Re:Sorry - EA is a FANTASTIC place to work (Score:2)