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Role Playing (Games)

Online Gaming Addictive? 169

Posted by Zonk from the pope-catholic? dept.
gihan_ripper writes "The BBC has a discussion on the addictive effects of online gaming. Reports come from Liz Woolley of Online Gamers Anonymous, and a gamer, Lynn Hall. Liz blames EverQuest for the 2002 suicide of her son Shawn, noting that game manufacturers hire employees with psychology degrees in order to make their games more addictive."
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Online Gaming Addictive? More

Online Gaming Addictive?

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  • Not as addictive... (Score:4, Funny)

    by brilinux ( 255400 ) on Friday February 18, 2005 @11:55AM (#11713171) Journal
    As obsessively posting to Slashdot!

  • Yes, indeed. We, of course cannot forget the online console titles like SOCOM II and--of course--Halo 2 also. They too have lots of replay value (SOCOM at least--haven't touched the Halos), which is precisely the problem if you want to prevent a suicidal spiral like Shawn's.

    • Re:Yes. (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Liquid_Knives ( 860688 )
      the games are just an outlet for his depression...you should be tackling the problem, not the symptoms...just because he played lots of games doesn't mean anything...
    • This year I tried the line of Sega 2k sports games online, I couldn't believe how addicting it was. In the past, I have become addicted to Wolfenstein and other fps.

      This new PS2 online games addiction is new. On weekdays I find myself staying up till 4am!

    • Shawn (Score:5, Interesting)

      by swerk ( 675797 ) on Friday February 18, 2005 @03:59PM (#11716641) Journal
      Shawn was a high school buddy of mine, and it's surreal every time this hits the news.

      We all happened to be gamers, my little posse of guys that didn't fit into the other clicks. Some of us were somewhat popular, some were gossipers, some (like myself) were computer geeks, but one thing we found we had in common was gaming. I'd sneak my N64 into the big projector room by the library so we could play Goldeneye during lunch break. Before the administration became uptight about lab usage, we'd play Quake anytime several of us showed up to school early. We tended not to have the greatest social skills (Shawn maybe being exemplar there) but we got along anyway; we were all decent guys just wanting to get the heck through high school so we could go have our own lives.

      I'm not going to pretend I knew Shawn super-well; sometimes he'd hang out with us and sometimes he wouldn't, but I know his problems didn't come from video games. I have nothing but sympathy and sorrow for his family, but Sony didn't destroy Shawn; he did that himself. At least one guy from our little rag-tag group went on to get addicted to alcohol, too, but that's not the fault of the brewing companies, even if they know full well that alcohol can be addictive, even if they put plenty of research into making the stuff taste good and encourage recurring business. Bigger surgeon general's warnings would not have helped.

      I need to disclaimer all this by saying that I personally haven't developed any self-destructive addictions. I haven't gone through it, so my perspective is void of first-hand experience. That said, I still put the responsibility not to allow some activity (smoking, playing video games, whatever) take over a person's life, on that person. We should avail them to help, and support them in finding help if we see that they are slipping, sure. But what sense does it make to talk about freedom and liberty if we won't also talk about accountibility and responsibility.

      Shawn was a good guy, but I'm not sure he entirely understood that every effect has a cause, that things don't "just happen". His gaming addiction and his suicide were built piece-by-piece, over a long time, including the few years when I knew him. It was obvious he had problems, but it wasn't obvious, or inevitable, that those problems would culminate in the way they did. Every choice he made contributed. Maybe if we'd shot hoops instead of playing Quake, his choices would have been different. Maybe mine would have too, and maybe I would have wound up in some suicidal spiral instead. I find it more plausible that my not having committed suicide is a result of the decisions I made in life, rather than the existance of addictive and/or damaging things in life. Laws don't keep people from getting hooked on crack, and just because nicotine is legal doesn't mean everybody gets addicted to smoking.

      Again, I truly feel for Shawn's family, and the families of everybody who has ever committed suicide, for any reason.

  • Definately (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Yevda ( 859322 )
    From my experience... 3+ years on Everquest, Meridian 59 every now and again since 1996, Anarchy Online for ~ 3 months, WoW, EQ2 and numerous others have wasted several years of my late-teenage life....

    It's like a job, except you don't get paid for playing the game... You get hooked and end up playing for 10 hours after school every single day and all weekend..... I can't believe that Everquest ruled my life for 3 years during high school... *sob*
  • I'm addicted to Stephen King. I compulsively read every new book he writes; I have withdrawal cravings when he doesn't publish for a long time. I know for a fact that he has a vested interest in making his books as alluring and addictive as possible.

    I think I'll go form a support group for victims of his evilness ...

  • Yup (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Reo Strong ( 661900 ) on Friday February 18, 2005 @12:06PM (#11713299)
    Just the same as driving fast, having sex, using caffine or tabacco, and gambling are addictive...

    As long as you have the choice to stand your dumb ass up and leave, leave it the hell alone. When did it become OK to have no self control?
    • It became ok to have no self-control when the lawyers took over the country. Now, if anything can conceivably be seen as somebody else's fault, it's a lucrative opportunity to sue. Personal responsibility is passe; now that there's money to be made, self-control is only a barrier to financial success.
    • The problem with gaming addiction is that noone empathizes with the addicted, *even among themselves*.

      Even those of us who've never smoked, for instance, can understand how hard it is for someone to stop smoking.

      Mmorpgs addiction is not like caffein or tobacco or driving fast, after all, most people live a life while satisfying their need. It's more like sex and gambling: when you're addicted, it consumes your life and your money. You may hold down a job to keep yourself afloat, but that's it.

      For some

  • I like this part (Score:2, Insightful)

    by HarpyG ( 858221 )
    It all boils down to whether you have enough willpower to tear yourself away from whatever is keeping you amused.
    People like to blame the game, the developper, the marketing, the government, esrb? i could go on ... In the end your the one sitting in front of the screen and nothing is plugged into you sending addictive molecules to your brain.

  • It's True (Score:2, Troll)

    by Apreche ( 239272 )
    Games like WoW are not designed to be artistic masterpieces of gaming wonder. They are designed with one thing in mind. Get you hooked, forever, so they can keep collecting your monthly fee.

    Look at the game mechanic. It's a chat room with fancy graphics, you IRC people know how addictive IRC is already. Next, the game has no difficulty factor. You just click on things, they die, and numbers go up. Quick, easy, repeatable gratification. Combine it with humour and the ability to customize digital thingies, m

    • Re:It's True (Score:4, Funny)

      by mrseigen ( 518390 ) on Friday February 18, 2005 @12:28PM (#11713639) Homepage Journal
      Don't you have anything better to do with your life other than click on pictures of monsters and increment numbers in a database far away?

      Don't you have anything better to do than post?

    • Re:It's True (Score:3, Funny)

      by PromANJ ( 852419 )
      Ur wrong! MMORPGs r0xx0rz my b0xxorx! I love pressing that attack icon and see the damage come up!
      Screencap http://web.telia.com/~u48508900/wow.gif [telia.com]

      Check out the grass foliage, just some years ago they couldn't do that stuff!!!1 The amazing gfx you can do nowdays with up to 16 colors and a staggering 200x160 resolution makes me wonder what's next!


      Also, here's Doom III as it actually plays and looks, The 'real' Doom III is actually an illusion - HYPE, level 3 (contagious), can only be cast by larger de

    • Re:It's True (Score:5, Insightful)

      by kaellinn18 ( 707759 ) on Friday February 18, 2005 @12:34PM (#11713740) Homepage Journal
      So what is the point in any game? Don't you have anything better to do with your life than move little circles around on a board (checkers) or try and throw a sphere through a hoop (basketball). I mean, seriously, that's a pretty cynical way to look at the whole thing. When you get down to that level, what's the point in anything? What's the point in life? People play MMOs and other games because they think it's FUN. Your definition of fun may differ from someone else's, but that does not give you the right to belittle what others choose to do. People need to escape the mundane reality they constantly work in to keep themselves alive. If they choose to do it via an MMO, a sport, or a bottle, that's their decision. I really don't see your point here, other than the fact that you don't like to do it.
    • I do it because it's fun.

      I know that's a crazy thing to say in a country where the workweek is 80 hours long, but what can I say? I'm a rebel.
    • so it's designed to keep people coming back. this is new? this is illegal? next i suppose you'd like to ban soap operas and cliffhanger endings? there's nothing here worthy of your umbrage or scorn. there's no chemical dependence, like with cigarettes or heroin, and there's no game mechanic of punishment for not playing that is akin to what smokers and junkies go through. every user is ultimately totally free to close the app at any time. it just takes the tiniest bit of will power.

      and sure, ultimately, Wo
    • Games like WoW are not designed to be artistic masterpieces of gaming wonder. They are designed with one thing in mind. Get you hooked, forever, so they can keep collecting your monthly fee.
      Have you ever read on MUD & MMO designs, have you ever played one. Besides the cheap ones that try to cash in (which always fail), most are artistic visions trying to create new worlds. MMOs go a step beyond movies and books to allow you to "exist" freely in the world, rather than observing the events.
      It's a ch

    • Re:It's True (Score:2, Informative)

      by DerWulf ( 782458 )
      yeah, only once you fought in an instance with a group composed of your friends (not e-friends mind you) against challenging adversaries (elite ones that, in the middle of battle laugh at your puny weapons and go to fetch an even bigger hammer) you will know the 'skill' in WoW. A group only 'auto-attacking' won't last 5 minutes.

  • Addictive = Fun? (Score:5, Funny)

    by ABaumann ( 748617 ) on Friday February 18, 2005 @12:07PM (#11713328)
    Well, sure. When I like something a lot, I want to do it a lot. (see: sexual intercourse [m-w.com] ) So, to some extent, everything fun has to be somewhat addictive.

    And about the hiring someone with a psychology degree to help make games more addictive? Come On! When has anyone heard of someone with a psychology degree getting a job?
    • Well, sure. When I like something a lot, I want to do it a lot. (see: sexual intercourse ) So, to some extent, everything fun has to be somewhat addictive.

      From the FA (the one about the suicide), according to Dr. J. Michael Faragher, dean of the School of Professional Studies at the Metropolitan State College of Denver and co-director of the Center for Addiction Studies, an activity needs 3 characteristics to be considered addictive:
      - It must by some reasonable definition be harmful
      - the person's beha

    • Oh yeah....you start off with a mildly amusing statement..but then you insult people with a psychology degree and make it the best post of the year.

  • addiction (Score:3, Funny)

    by dreamseason ( 307155 ) on Friday February 18, 2005 @12:08PM (#11713334)
    It's a good thing they aren't hiring Colombian drug lords to make games as addictive as crack!

  • In My Own Experience, Yes (Score:5, Interesting)

    by sqlzealot ( 553596 ) on Friday February 18, 2005 @12:09PM (#11713350) Journal
    Single player video games are bad enough, being easy escapism from actually having to live. MM games are much worse. Since MM games are based in a live online world, you cannot save your game at any time and return to it just as you left it later. When playing with other people it is socially hard to stop in the middle of a quest, since you will waste your teammates' time in finding a replacement for your group. You are in constant competition with others in your guild, etc to level up. If you fall to far behind you will no longer be able to do quests with your friends. Finally, the way MM games are financed, you pay a flat monthly fee for unlimited usage. Someone who plays 20 hrs a week gets twice as much "game time per dollar" as someone who plays 10 hrs. This provides a further incentive to play as much as you can. Playing World of Warcraft sucked up a huge percentage of my free time. Even after I stopped playing, I still havn't worked up the courage to cancel my account yet because I don't want to lose my character.

    Where's one of those twelve step programs when you need them? "-Hi my name is Greg and I am a WOW addict. -Hi Greg!"

    • Even after I stopped playing, I still havn't worked up the courage to cancel my account yet because I don't want to lose my character.

      Blizzard doesn't delete characters from cancelled accounts. [blizzard.com] You can cancel, not pay for a year, and then reactivate your account and have all your characters still there.

      This is great for hardcore gamers. Cap in a couple months then cancel until a significant content patch comes out.

    • Single player video games are bad enough, being easy escapism from actually having to live.
      People should go to the bar to drink and smoke instead of playing those addictive games...
    • My experience has been much different. Real life and even other video games interfere. Maybe this is an actual advantge of having a short attention span. In FFXI I spent about 2-4 weeks playing with the goal of leveling. After that it became little more than an IM for my friends who were hooked.

  • If it only were that easy.. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Achoi77 ( 669484 ) on Friday February 18, 2005 @12:13PM (#11713408)
    then we should start a lawsuit against crispy creme donuts for hiring people that come up with delicious donut recipes.

    Even better, McDonald's and their french fries.

    Once again we come up with another irresponsible parent that's looking to lay the blame for the death of their child. Anybody that does not practice any self control (or delegation of it) is making a beeline straight for the darwin awards.

    To be fair, yeah I'm an avid player of (back then) EQ and (as of now) WoW. Yeah, I did play WoW obsessively for the first few months. But it's waned down a lot. I've gotten to the mode of casual playing and truth be told I'm just too busy trying to stay on top of RL to really commit to it. My friend who just moved in the area and is going on interviews for jobs, plays a whole lot more, because he's got the time to at the moment. Sure I'm jealous, but that doesn't drive me over the edge. *sigh*

    • Certain people are simply more apt to become addicted to things. I don't think it's fair to call these people stupid. There is a serious underlying problem, and there is a decent possibility that the parent wouldn't have been able to do that much about it.

      The parent shouldn't be attacking the game for it, but she is likely having problems coping with her tragedy. It is sad all around. Maybe she could get some help.
    • Upon reading the summary, I was all ready to jump all over this mother, but I went crazy and RTFA. The truth is that there's nothing in the article about her wanting to get MMOGs banned, she's not lobbying for warning labels, etc. She simply started a group to hopefully help people who would LIKE to quit playing these games but, for some reason, can't.

      Here's what she said in the Wired article about her son's death: "I think a treatment program needs to be set up for this that's just as accessible as Alc

  • when a teen kills themselves, many causes are in effect. however none of these causes are the actual decision by the individual to commit suicide. blame the parents? maybe. blame the individual? surely. blame a computer game? are you kidding?

    this is the angry cry of a parent who does not want to face up to the fact that their son decided that life was no longer worth enduring. perhaps there was no fault in the parenting, perhaps they showed love and encouragement. but in general if you don't blame "somethi
    • Her son wasn't a teen he was an adult (21)

  • Of course it is (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Tokah ( 859694 ) on Friday February 18, 2005 @12:18PM (#11713499)
    People would rather do things they enjoy, then deal with problems which they don't enjoy. In almost every case, people will pick the more pleasant thing over the less pleasant thing. Games are more fun than life, and thus its easy to overdo it. By simply calling all enjoyable things addictive, we're raising a generation of people with no incentive for self control. They don't need to control themselves, they can just blame others.
  • How can they make something more addictive? In the case of computer games, I just don't see how they can make it addictive, let alone make it more addictive.

    I find the game of Go very addictive. Does this mean that 3000-4000 years ago, Chinese philosophers hired fellows from the peasantry who seemed to "just have a good way with people". No. It means that I have a personality that resonates with the game and thus an addictive linkage is formed.

    This case is nonsense. I think her son had a personality
    • I think her son had a personality that was prone to being addicted to virtual realities and gamespaces, and probably many other issues as well.

      I think this is really important to stress. The type of people that get addicted to MMORPGs are the ones who like to detach themselves from the real world, and want to escape it. Which, unsurprisingly, is very similar to someone is suicidal. The problem is that the MMORPG reinforces the suicidal detachment, but that doesn't mean we should blame the MMORPG. In

  • I am so bloody tired... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Nice2Cats ( 557310 ) on Friday February 18, 2005 @12:23PM (#11713569)
    ...of idiot psychologists and media clowns out to get publicity by running around claming that computer games are addictive. Is reading addictive? Just look at the money and time I have spent on Terry Pratchett alone! Are movies addictive? Well, as much as I'm going to hate the next Star Wars film, I'm still going to go. Look at how obsessive people get about football, for Christ's sake. Somebody, somewhere probably killed himself after the Superbowl, too. And women! Women are unbelievably addictive...

    Who funds this crap? And don't they have real science to do? And can't we please, please just have the real news on Slashdot?

  • Afraid for my life... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by RootsLINUX ( 854452 ) <rootslinuxNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Friday February 18, 2005 @12:25PM (#11713594) Homepage
    I have never played or even seen someone play a MMORPG. Yet, I am a huge fan of RPG games, enough so that I've been working on creating my own since June. So why haven't I jumped on the MMORPG bandwagon? Well that's an easy question to answer.

    I'm afraid. I'm terrified that I will become an addict like so many others, and then my performance will degrade at my job, my grades will lower, I'll become less productive, and I'll sleep less. Then when I realize my life has become so horrible and ugly, what will I do? I'll probably start playing the MMORPG *even more* to escape from my reality.

    That scenario is so terribly realistic for me, I'm not even going to take the chance. FFXI will probably be the only FF game I will never play (unless Square-Enix decides to make another FF MMORPG...)
    • Your first MMORPG is the worst. You get all caught up in the leveling aspect and wonder,"What wonderous thing can I find next?". Then you eventually learn that all the quests fit a mold:A) Kill X monsters B) Talk to some NPCs C)Find a treasure(which means look up a website on google, so no one does this anymore)

      Late game content is generally PK, and PK is rarely competitive since most games aren't balanced around it. WOW claims their PK is top notch, and it probably is knowing how Blizz balances thing
    • Bah, don't fear. Try it, realize after 10 hours that MMORPGs have absolutly nothing to offer when you compare them to a real p&p rpg, or even to a single player rpg, or even to mario 1, and have a good laugh.
      Seriously, the idea of a MMORPG drove me nuts when it was announced at first. I imagined how i could be and in my mind it was something fantastic, the ultimate game, the game that i couldn't even imagine as a child. I was actually scared, like you, to spend my life on UO so i didn't even tried i
    • So why haven't I jumped on the MMORPG bandwagon? Well that's an easy question to answer. I'm afraid. I'm terrified that I will become an addict like so many others

      The problem with MMOs, like so many other things, is the pressure to keep up with the Joneses. The answer, is not to try.

      It is no mistake that I have never belonged to a guild, because the external pressure to level up, etc... erases the benefit of belonging to one.

      I'm playing WOW, and I only team up when I feel like it. If someone should h

  • o noes! save us from the psychologys! (Score:3, Informative)

    by truffle ( 37924 ) on Friday February 18, 2005 @12:28PM (#11713641) Homepage
    "noting that game manufacturers hire employees with psychology degrees in order to make their games more addictive"

    An undergraduate psychology degree doesn't really qualify you to make games 'addictive'.

    There's a big difference between someone with a psychology degree and a psychologist.
    • An undergraduate psychology degree doesn't really qualify you to make games 'addictive'.

      I strongly disagree. In fact, I can qualify you in every way that matters in just one sentence: "One of the most addictive reward patterns is intermittent rewards." There you go, apply that with gusto and you can create an addictive game. (I recommend that you also make the game itself good, you need them playing long enough to get addicted.)

      For one of the most pure examples of this I know, check out the Roguelike "
    • The exact quote is even worse:

      "But I do know, however, that some of the game manufacturers do require their game developers to have degrees in psychology to make them even more addictive."

      They REQUIRE their developers to have psychology degrees? I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to call bullshit on that, unless she can tell me exactly which developers those are.
  • Duh University.

    Its a good thing that I'm soo indignant to the fact that WoW and most mmorpgs have a monthly fee. Otherwise I'd probably be hopelessly strung out on it. I'm still trying to get over my Starcraft Addiction.

  • This is news? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by rogabean ( 741411 ) on Friday February 18, 2005 @12:42PM (#11713856)
    Of course online games are addictive. offline games are addictive. People get addicted to things they enjoy. That's not news, it is common sense.

    Blaming a game for someone's death? Well that's taking it a bit far. If someone was unbalanced enough to have a game as a potential trigger, then they should not be playing said game.

    • I don't disagree with you. How is such a person supposed to know how unbalanced they are? There are plenty who do play these games to excess and probably should not, but even out of those the number of "game induced" suicides is probably tiny. I'm sure there are warning signs for addiction, but killing yourself over it seems unrelated to addiction.

    • I agree with you..pretty much anything can be addictive, especially if it is enjoyable. I think what is new here is that we are finding that MMORPGs are especially addictive because they are in fact designed to be. Again, that is nothing new - smoking was designed to be addictive by the tabbaco industry, casions are designed to keep you gambling, etc. The newsworhtyness in the article is just pointing out that the trend in videogames is changing in that they are now being intentionally designed to be add
    • To almost-quote Dennis Miller, about someone who committed suicide after listening to a song by Judas Priest: "If your kid is going to be influenced by anything a rock song has to say, something was going to get him eventually. A low flying helicopter, a deliquent tax return, something. You can't save everybody. Just try not to be living next to them when they go off. I have that embroidered on a throw pillow in my heavily-fortified rumpus room."

      Which is pretty callous, I know. But let's keep in mind

  • I guess I'm just glad someone's hiring the kids with psych degrees. Most of the people I knew who took a lot of psych just liked it because it was easy. But then, most of the people I know aren't working in the field for which they studied.

    I think the use of the word "addiction" in this context cheapens it. When you've known people with psychical addictions--alcohol, drugs, etc.--it's a long stretch to extend that to a video game. Sure, there's gambling, but I think that's kind of an aberration: there's so

  • Before the bashing ensues (Score:5, Insightful)

    by inkless1 ( 1269 ) on Friday February 18, 2005 @01:04PM (#11714249) Homepage
    I've actually exchanged some emails with Woolley for a past online column I wrote that mentioned her son. So before the normal rabid gaming reaction begins, let me state that she is a very nice and intelligent woman. She suffered a great loss and is trying to make something good out of it.

    That said, I still don't agree with some of her positions. I think she's gotten some bad information from certain psychologists who poorly compare the brain chemistry of someone having a really instense experience to that of crack cocaine - which is simply sensationalist hyperbole.

    As several will note, anything can be addictive. People can form a fetish relationship or obsessive fascination with almost anything - it's not a reason to start banning or regulating everything that fits on a shelf. We should be more worried about mental health in our culture on a general basis. Why is going to a therapist still such a blemish? And of course, who can afford it? Video gaming itself is just a symptom of these kinds of problems. You could try to ban gambling, but that won't really help a gambling addict.
    • She's avoiding the fact that her son already needed serious psychiatric help, with or without MMOGs as a conduit for his self-destructive actions. It's pretty much the exact same thing with D&D, where various kids who committed suicide and played D&D were also on drugs and/or severely depressed already (yet the supposed connection between suicide and D&D has been shown to be total bunk - and D&D and other pen-and-paper RPGs are on the rise).

      The really sad part is that she herself is in nee
      • I would agree - and was actually more or less the gist of the column I wrote. But even after landblasting her for it she wrote me a nice email and said she appreciated someone writing about her son in an intelligent way and not degrading him after his death.

        So I don't agree with her - but I do feel sympathy for her and her loss.
    • Video gaming itself is just a symptom of these kinds of problems.

      I can't stress this enough. In my view, there are two kinds of addictions to MMORPGs. The one is where a mentally healthy person enjoys the escape a little too much and may get to the point where his/her real life starts to suffer a bit. Usually the addiction isn't too severe, and as soon as the sh*t starts to hit the fan, he/she will realize that the game is affecting real life and will tone down the playing.

      The other addiction is the o

  • Wrong type of Psychologist (Score:4, Interesting)

    by DarkGamer20X6 ( 695175 ) on Friday February 18, 2005 @01:14PM (#11714417)
    From the article:

    I do not believe all online games are inherently bad or evil.

    But I do know, however, that some of the game manufacturers do require their game developers to have degrees in psychology to make them even more addictive.

    Um, no. No they do not. What game developers might do is hire a Psychologist who has studied Human Computer Interaction [acm.org], a branch of Cognitive Psychology which is concerned with, among other things, the usability of computer software.

    As games become more complex, it becomes necessary to design an interface which is easily used, but not restrictive. Anyone who's played an MMORPG knows the importance of a good HUD. That's what's at hand here; game developers are hiring more Cognitive Psychologists to aid in the design of their game's interface.

    The area of Psychology she's referring to is Psychopathology (i.e., "mental illness"). Psychologists in this realm study addiction... very different from those who study HCI.

    Maybe this is some FUD she picked up from her lawyer, Jack Thompson? (Refer to second article [wired.com])
  • I agree with the consensus here that anything can be addictive and it's ludicrous to legislate the concept of saving people from their own obsessive-compulsive tendencies.

    With that being said, I do believe to some degree, in some games, the addictive nature is integrated into the design. It's less that the game itself is addictive as it is the methods to achieve desired goals become "job-like" in their requirements to force people to collaborate.

    Everquest is a good example. The high end game requires th

  • Must Get Back to Treadmill (Score:3, Funny)

    by vjmurphy ( 190266 ) on Friday February 18, 2005 @01:28PM (#11714613) Homepage
    I was going to write a really long, insightful response to the whole MMORPGs are addicting thing, but I've really got to get a team together to take out two archvillains in City of Heroes, get some more crafting levels on my Monk in Everquest 2, help my wife out with an adventure in Everquest, and do a little Realm vs. Realm action in Dark Age of Camelot.

    Anyhow. No, MMORPGs are NOT addictive.

  • They shouldn't be banned, but... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by TRACK-YOUR-POSITION ( 553878 ) on Friday February 18, 2005 @01:37PM (#11714782)
    As soon as someone mentions the addictive qualities of video games, everyone activates their libertarian defensiveness shield. Which is an understandable response, given the tendency of some governments to ban "addictive" things kids like and old white guys hate. (I'm only a few years from becoming an old white guy myself, but whatever.)

    However, the audience for video games seems to keep getting older and older, and I suspect we'll have video games for quite awhile.

    But ask yourself why you REALLY like to play video games. What's fun about these things? And how do you feel about those reasons?

    Is it because you want to face new challenges, socialize, and observe a new fantasy world? I doubt think anyone can argue these things are unhealthy, in moderation.

    Or is it because you want the sense of accomplishment [progressquest.com] that comes from the level-up hamster wheel, which rewards you primarily for playing longer rather than playing better? Is it because your seeking an escape from reality?

    (One could argue that these games give us the detachment from self that eastern religions advocate. I suspect otherwise, but that's far too complex to think about here.)

    There was a scene from Minority Report in which someone was spending time in a virtual reality simulation of his peers praising him for receiving an imaginary reward. How much of the attractiveness of these MMORPGs comes from the very same desire for false success?

    Things shouldn't be banned because they are unhealthy, but you shouldn't defend the healthiness of something just because someone is trying to ban it. The worth of an activity is in the eye of the beholder, but you shouldn't discard your own judgment just to spite people you disagree with.

    Free yourself of all prejudice and bitterness, then ask yourself whether a desire for pre-programmed, treadmill success is healthy? Are you a better person after you have finished, or are you just older?

    And, if any games developer happens to come down with an odd case of misplaced utilitarianism in capitalist world, maybe you should ask yourself what effect your game has on people. There are certainly MMOG games that lack any explicit level treadmill. Second Life comes to mind.

    The human desire for fun exists in order to stretch our mental and physical abilities. Yet so many things we call "fun" actually contract these abilities. Worse, things we do to "relax" like watch television or smoke leave us even more stressed out and tired than when we started. The Taoists encourage us to be relaxed and alert, yet so many times we Westerners are entranced by our anxieties. We've grown so used to that state that for "fun" we invent new anxieties to entertain us on our computer and television screens.

    Trying to stop it with lawsuits and laws is laughable, of course. But that does not stop my mourning.

    • this is bullshit. Above what is required for substaining your life every sucess is somewhat 'virtual'. In the same vein you could ask 'Did you really need that plasma tv or is it just the praise of your friends that leads you to enjoy this unsubstantial status symbol'. What is achievment? Well, the only consitant answer is: Whatever a person considers it to be. If a high level in an mmorpg makes me proud nobody can argue with that. Not you, not any doctor nor any politician. To each his own as they say. De
    • That was the most eloquent piece of garbage I have read in a long time. It is a stretch to say watching TV makes us more stressed and tired. Sure, sitting in front of the television for hours straight and ignoring things that need to be done can cause this, but for normal people it is just a break from the constant moving around we are doing.

      As far as MMO games go, you are criticizing the set up of the leveling tread mill. You claim that we need sit down and analyze how "healthy" this is. That it gives
      • I should clarify that I don't think that all video games playing or even all MMORPGs are unhealthy, or even that any specific MMORPG is unhealthy in all cases. I do think there are "healthier" MMORPGs that might actually result in people expanding their brains as they play them. Second Life's emphasis on creativity, and A Tale in the Desert's focus on socialization come to mind. Even Everquest and the like, if they are played in moderation, is, as you say, healthier than a lot of other things in life. I
  • Look, even though it's a lawsuit, and even though our buddy Jack Thompson is getting in on the action, this lawsuit isn't as ridiculous as you'd be led to believe.

    The kid's mother is trying to find out what (if anything) in-game would cause her son to commit suicide. Sony Online said "no way" when she asked them for information so now she's suing them for it.

    The article doesn't mention cash. If she wants cash as well, then she loses some of my respect. But it appears that this is a case of a grieving p
  • This just in... Air is good for you!

    (Honestly, if gaming wasn't addictive, we wouldn't have things such as MMOs and CCGs)
  • What joke, they arent addictive at all..

    well back to leveling my Rogue.
  • I'm not saying you can stop every suicide by paying more attention. But the mother needs to look the kid's whole world rather than just World of Warcraft to find what may have influenced him to commit suicide.

    Let's say a gang of bullies made a kid's life completely miserable, and the kid's only escape was going home and playing blues songs by BB King on his guitar after school. If his mother takes away his guitar, and the kid kills himself soon after, would you blame the guitar manufacturer for making an
  • There's a decent short article about this in an old issue of Game Developers Magazine: https://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/store.php?item_ i d=287&category=22&book=

    Unfortantely, the article is not readily available on-line. However, if memory serves me, the article pretty much says that the choice of "addictive" is a bad choice of words. That other things that we describe positively don't necessarily have the same negative connotation associated with them.

    Which makes sense. Why not use the word
  • I read the FA, which says nothing bad about Everquest or Online Gaming. Even the referenced old story had Wooley suing for information about the content of Everquest, not to blame them for the suicide--at least, so far. In the FA, Wooley states:

    My son, Shawn, committed suicide as a direct result of being addicted to the EverQuest game.

    She is attributing the addiction, not the game. However, the subtext implies that she's fishing for direct evidence of non-game-like psychological techniques use to inf

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