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Games Entertainment

Dead or Alive Creator Badmouths Tekken 63

Posted by Zonk from the speaking-ill-of-the-newborn dept.
Dead or Alive creator and leader of Team Ninja Tomonobu Itagaki spoke with 1up.com about the DoA series, tournaments, and other fighting games. He had some very pointed things to say about Tekken 5. From the article: "First they put in all of these half-finished "features", then they take them right out again. Tag fights, elevation differences, walls. I don't know if it's because they're impatient, or because they lack the ability, but no matter the reason those guys are a pretty weird bunch. Any of those things would have become a bonafide feature if they took the time to do it right."
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Dead or Alive Creator Badmouths Tekken More

Dead or Alive Creator Badmouths Tekken

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  • I know how to settle this. (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Round 1.

    READY?

    FIGHT!

  • pr0n (Score:4, Funny)

    by Dragoon412 ( 648209 ) on Monday February 28, 2005 @01:51PM (#11804955)
    So, Team Ninja Criticizes the Tekken guys for trying to make a better fighting game?

    How could the Tekken devs possibly retort? Point out that DoA's boob jiggling physics aren't realistic enough? I mean, this would be like the Myst devs bitching about Doom 3 for not having enough shooting.

    Team Ninja needs to stop beating (heheh) around the bush (heheh) and just start making porn games, because a desire for a solid fighting game is the last thing on someone's mind when he buys a DoA game.

    • Re:pr0n (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Jeff Reed ( 209535 )
      Indeed. Team Ninja clearly can make excellent action/fighting titles (Ninja Gaiden is proof of this), but for whatever reason they refuse to do so with the Dead or Alive games. Then, they turn around and whine when people want to see the busty female characters in their games completely naked, instead of as close to naked as you can get without showing any naughty bits.

      The jab at Death By Degrees, however, was quite deserved. What a stinking pile that game was.
    • Well, maybe Itagaki isn't the best one to do it, but the Tekken series definitely deserves a little critism these days. I haven't played Tek5 yet, but as for 4 it was a huge let down. It didn't really offer much new that wasn't already in Tekken 3, which I would say was the peak of the series. The graphics weren't that hot either... the new one looks a little better, but what can you expect running on the slowest of the 3 consoles? Maybe Namco should let Tekken sit out for a few years... maybe even come up

  • Slow news day, Zonk? (Score:3, Funny)

    by Keith Russell ( 4440 ) on Monday February 28, 2005 @01:57PM (#11805049) Journal

    Itagaki disses Tekken. In other breaking news:

    Kerry badmouths Bush
    Gates calls Stallman a "damn hippie"
    Dog bites postman

    All this, plus your HyperKillerStormWatchDoppler5000 forecast, tonight at 11.

  • That article didn't really provide much information. Everything was related to this DOA tournament and can basically be broken down into this:

    Most of the people involved will be Americans, latency issues, and costumes. The last question involves Tekken and is present just to flatter the him.

    • Re:Uninteresting Article (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Most of the people involved will be Americans, latency issues, and costumes. The last question involves Tekken and is present just to flatter the him.

      Hey, are you the guy who wrote my VCR instructions back in the 80s?

  • Right to talk (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Apreche ( 239272 ) on Monday February 28, 2005 @01:59PM (#11805075) Homepage Journal
    Because the creator of such a fantastic fighting game like DoA which boasts a bouncing boobometer as a game innovation has a right to talk about which fighting games are good and bad. Not that Tekken 5 is any masterpiece.
    Street Fighter 2 CE, Soul Calibur (any), Mortal Kombat II and maybe Virtua Fighter are still the defining games of the genre. All the other fighting games are just wanna-bes.
    • Mortal kombat II is not a game that defines the fighting game genre, maybe in 1995, but not nowadays. If you look at any big tournaments i dont see any that have ever used mk in their roster of games. If there is any similarity from mk2 to tekken, is that it allows some pretty ridiculous juggling. If you want to talk about entries into fighting games, there are only two: Street Fighter 2 CE, and Marvel 2. If you want to know about the current popular fighting games, its Marvel 2, and 3rd strike.

      Virtua Fig

      • As a fellow fighter lover (especially 2D) .. I wish I had mod points for ya...

      • good points, i agree.

        except you misspelled "Street Fighter Alpha 3" as "Street Fighter 3 3rd Strike" ^_-

        seriously tho, 3 was a masterpeice, but i still think the alpha series (my fav was 2, but i gotta hand it to 3) was the pinnacle of all fighting games. it's the chess of fighters.

      • Re:What are you talking about!? (Score:2, Interesting)

        by Anonymous Coward
        If you ask me, Soulcalibur provides the best combination of accessibility and sophistication.

        Apparently I'm not the only one who thinks so because the Soulcalibur II machine was so popular at my school's rec room that they added a second one. The Marvel vs. Capcom machine never drew crowds like Soulcalibur and of course Tekken 4 never came close.

        Soulcalibur II is also one of the most balanced fighting games I've ever seen. While there are a few characters that could be considered strongest, their advantag

      • That being said, DOA's fighting system is nothing to write home about either since it's just some fast paced dial-a-combo, luck countering fighting game. Oh yeah, and its eyecandy.

        Please, please, please learn to play DOA. Your claim is ridiculous to anyone who has spent only a moderate time with even older DOAs like 2. DOA2U is far from the best or deepest in the series (that would be a tie between DOA3.1 and DOA3.2), but it does have online play. Learn one character a little, fight some decent players on


      • > Virtua Fighter has improved quite a bit, but the learning curve is so high
        > that its pretty hard for newcomers to play.

        Speaking of which, what good 3D figting game does not have a steep learning curve and can appeal to people that do not want to (or just cannot) memorize a heap of long combos?
    • Mortal... Kombat... ******2******?!?!?!?!?

      What universe are you from? Is that like the only MK you have on any console or something? If ANY of the MK's were worthy of the title "Genre Leader", it would have been MK3. Many more years/variations/time/sweat/love slaves/hampsters went into balancing and perfecting that game

      • Re:Right to talk (Score:3, Insightful)

        by ZephyrXero ( 750822 )
        Are you on crack..lol? MK2 was the best one in the series....although that doesn't really say much. When they took the story into left field with 3 it just felt much cheezier to play it. All the ani/friend/baby -alities sucked too. Most people I know would play MK3 long enough to see all the *alities and then never play it again. c'mon man... but I guess everyone's entitled to their opinion. ;)

        MK4's gameplay was slow and clunky, but looked nice at the time. The new ones play a little better now, but ther

  • I almost wish DOA *didn't* have the breasts... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Chris_Jefferson ( 581445 ) on Monday February 28, 2005 @02:14PM (#11805302) Homepage
    While that title might look shocking, wait just a few sentances :)

    I've always thought Dead or Alive's playing was far superiour to Tekken. In Tekken the only way to play well seems to be to memorise a fixed set of increasingly long combos, whereas dead of alive feels much more flexable (sure, you can still learn combos, but it feels much less like you are forced into a small fixed number of patterns.)

    While I do love the breasts and semi-nakedness of DoA, it makes it much harder to convince people that there is one of the best 3d 1-on-1 beat-em-ups under there as well :)
    • DoA allows more button mashing than tekken. So, unless you devote to the game, all you are doing is randomly trying to win.

      In the high end of both games, you are requiredto memorize long sequence, moves and whatnot. So Tekken is superior.

      Of course, that doesnt mean that tekken is the best fighting game. That is SSBM :)
      • Of course, that doesnt mean that tekken is the best fighting game. That is SSBM :)

        Good to see there are others that feel that way. Though I can't verify because I haven't played Power Stone and apparantly that is a lot like Smash Bros. and it came out earlier.

        But yeah, SSBM doesn't rely on combos at all, and button mashing won't help you much. The only thing that can be said against it is "not enough moves", but it's still deep. I would call it a good fighter for people who don't like fighters.
      • Amen. Tekken feels like a high-speed game of Trivial Pursuit. I think the designers just stuff every oddball idea they can into the game "Hey, lets have an electric quad! And Gon! And a guy with a lion mask! And a dude with swords! And a bear!

        There doesn't feel like there's any design, just complicated combos and trivia. It feels like a bad opensource game to me. It feels like work.

        Good inventive fighting games: Powerstone 2, Super Smash Brothers (either game), Virtual On: Oratio Tangram, Gundam:
    • DOA is deceptively deep. Instant gratification is there, and so is luck, but play against someone who has taken the time to really get to know the game and the button masher "luck reversal" folks will get their brains bashed in 10 times out of 10.

      I love it.
    • I'm with you.

      Except that I don't almost wish it didn't have breasts.

      DOA3 is my favorite fighting game (yes, I like it even better than Soul Calibur II), and I don't give a rat's ass if other people might assume that the "jiggle factor" is the only appeal.

      Mind you, DOAX is pure soft-core pr0n. It's a Japanese dating sim with a volleyball game attached to it. It's a good volleyball game, but there's no question that the real appeal of it is gawking at all the purdy cartoon girls while disposable pop music
    • I don't mind the breats, I despise the bouncing. I played this game several years ago. But after playing once I had to stop, the bouncing was so surreal that was making me nervous (not excited, but as if you're feeling something is out of normality).

      So it's tekken for me. The 5th when my flatmate'll recieve his import (damn, those pesky non world releases).
  • I don't see how the Tag-team feature is "unfinished". It works perfectly in Tekken Tag team (#3); I thought the implementation was excellent, despite me not liking the Tekken series.

    Street Fighter (EX series and Marvel vs Capcom) both use tagging, and the only reason I prefer those methods is that I prefer that style of fighting game. There's nothing quite like a Dr. Doom air super combo -> Sentenal Plasma Ball super -> Iron Man Proton Cannon (MvC 2 is the best fighting game evar!)

  • hypocrite (Score:2, Insightful)

    by scottind ( 838186 )
    DOA badmouths Tekken for putting out a crappy shiny new game. In the meantime, Teamninja recycles DOA2 into DOA Ultimate.

    You notice how Itagaki never says anything about the actual gameplay? you wonder why DOA is not taken as a serious fighting game in competition.

    • First they put in all of these half-finished "features", then they take them right out again. Tag fights, elevation differences, walls. I don't know if it's because they're impatient, or because they lack the ability, but no matter the reason those guys are a pretty weird bunch.

      Walls, elevation differences, and tag fights are all actual gameplay elements. Tekken has yet to do any of these as well as Sega or Tecmo have. That was as purely factual a statement about gameplay as you can get - Itagaki didn't n

  • Since when have devotees of one particular fighting game, never mind the creator of one, done anything but heap derision on the heads of all those witless enough that they don't bow in the presence of My Fighting Game X?

    Street Fighter vs. Mortal Kombat.
    Tekken vs. Virtua Fighter (before DoA happened)
    Street Fighter vs. KoF ...dreckcetera, dreckcetera.

    The guy who created competing fighting game franchise, Dead or Alive thinks Tekken is for sissies. Well blow me down!

    Me, I don't care for DoA, and have been
  • I was eagerly anticipating Tekken 5, but when I found out that they had removed the wall pushes (where you push an opponent into a wall to score a free combo) I was unsure. Having played the new game however, its clear that a huge amount of time has been spent balancing the characters out more.

    Also, whereas the previous incarnations new characters were essentially just rehashes of existing ones in different costumes - the new game boasts completely different moves for all of the "clone" characters from th
  • The only reason he is bad mouthing Tekken is because all the other 3d fighters series have failed. VF4 almost had it, but was still too clunky (The AI training was kind of fun though). Tekken dropped the ball with 4, and their enclosed environments. One of the things that made Tekken 'Tekken', was the never ended arena where you could concentrate on those long memorized strands of combos. DOA is the superior fighter in so many regards, and SF comes a close second when it comes to pure fighting satisfact
  • Honestly I can't say I'm suprised... I haven't heard a lot of competitors say "wow look at that, thats much better then what I have go buy their product"

    With that said I actually do enjoy playing DOA.. no it's not at the same calibur as most others, but I find it's difficulty to be just right for me... it's not as complex as the others and since i generally suck but enjoy fighting games it's perfect.

    Yes I enjoy the graphics and all the perks (haha) but the fact I can turn it on for 5 minutes and pwn wit
  • "I want to holler the loud funny words!" - Stimpy

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