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Games Entertainment

Grumpy Gamer Disappointed By New Zelda Footage 122

Posted by Zonk from the zell-out dept.
Ron "the Grumpy Gamer" Gilbert has up an opinion piece discussing his frustration with the new realistic footage of Zelda shown at this year's Game Developer's Conference. He makes some excellent points counter to most opinions I've seen up so far. From the article: "If you look at the trailer, it's filled with creatures, textures and buildings that could be seamlessly exchanged with any other 3D boy-mass game, which in my opinion, is the real failing of 3D games. This crazy quest to attain realism just serves to water everything down until it is all indistinguishable from anything else. An off-white paint that covers the walls of cube-like apartments in cookie-cutter neighborhoods."
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Grumpy Gamer Disappointed By New Zelda Footage More

Grumpy Gamer Disappointed By New Zelda Footage

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  • On the eight day (Score:4, Funny)

    by Ryeng ( 805454 ) on Wednesday March 23, 2005 @04:51AM (#12021396)
    God filled the world with creatures, textures and buildings of all color and shape. And he saw that is was good.

  • What is this? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Celestial Avenger ( 826964 ) on Wednesday March 23, 2005 @04:57AM (#12021413)
    All I hear is one grumpy man bitching about graphics, graphics, and more graphics. I thought The Legend of Zelda was best known for innovating GAMEPLAY.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by account_deleted ( 4530225 )
      Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • ..but he wants to feel like a kid again..........

      basically he wants to watch cartoons instead of live action. can't blame him too much for that. but hey, don't buy the fucking game then.

    • Re:What is this? (Score:3, Interesting)

      by ziggles ( 246540 )
      Really? I never thought that. Zelda games have always been pretty boring to me, in gameplay. Especially since all the 3d games are basically Ocarina of Time + new instrument/tool which doesn't really change gameplay at all. Wind Waker was the first 3d Zelda game that I had a lot of fun with, mostly because it was fun to look at and explore. The gameplay was still almost exactly the same as OoT.

      But I'm still holding out hope that maybe they'll do something innovative with the gameplay in this new zelda

  • Why not realism? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by lordperditor ( 648289 ) on Wednesday March 23, 2005 @04:58AM (#12021415)
    I for one am looking forward to Zelda getting the realistic treatment.

    The last Cell shaded effort, although fun to play was kiddied up too much for me. I prefered the ocarina over the windwalker.

    Bring it on I say.

    Damn he is a grumpy gamer, get over it Ron.

    • Kiddied up? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Inoshiro ( 71693 ) on Wednesday March 23, 2005 @10:49AM (#12023240) Homepage
      The last realistic effort, although fun to play, wasn't really fun to watch. Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask represent a big step back in the Zelda graphics. Wind Waker is great, it's a 3D Link to the Past [gamerankings.com]!

      Link to the Past is my favourite Zelda game, as I think it represents a good balance. All the GBA and GBC (even the original GB Zelda verison) sport the graphics design of LTTP. Only the N64 ones are bad. Unspurisingly, despite me owning several copies (N64 carts + the GC bonus disc versions), they're the only Zelda games I haven't beaten.

      I bet you like FF7 more than FF6, too, just because it was 3D.

      • Re:Kiddied up? (Score:4, Interesting)

        by superpulpsicle ( 533373 ) on Wednesday March 23, 2005 @01:21PM (#12025494)
        I give credit to Ocarina of Time, but the best Zelda is still the NES classic Link's Adventure. The side scroller adventure had level gaining, non-linear gameplay. I can't tell you how many other games were based off this formula afterwards.

        • Interestingly, you're in the minority there. And the gameplay was the most linear of the series so far, excepting perhaps Link's Awakening or one of the Oracle games -- there was hardly anything you could do out of order.

          The experience system, too, was anti-Zelda. In Zelda II, your character's power comes as a function of experience points earned, which comes up to, essentially, battles fought. In all the other Zeldas, your character becomes more powerful (gains heart containers & goodies) through e

          • Funny that we're talking about Zelda II (Adventure of Link), because Zelda 2K5 gives me the same vibe. A great game molded into something else because it's cool at the time. Zelda II, it's rumored, was transformed into the decent but decidedly non-Zelda RPG-style outing because RPGs were really hot in Japan at the time.

            • Zelda II, it's rumored, was transformed into the decent but decidedly non-Zelda RPG-style outing because RPGs were really hot in Japan at the time.

              I'm really unsure of that, especially since Zelda II has so many other innovations over the RPG mold, like an action-based game system, a real-time spell interface, and character customization. (You can build up to level 8 Attack first if you want.)

              It's worth noting, actually, that the original Disk version of Zelda II had some minor, but interesting, changes

    • Re:Why not realism? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by HAKdragon ( 193605 ) <hakdragon.gmail@com> on Wednesday March 23, 2005 @11:07AM (#12023517)
      If it was fun to play, should it matter how "kiddied up" it was?
      • Imagine that every time you played a certain game, you got smacked upside the head every five seconds. No matter how good the game was, wouldn't you rather play it without getting smacked upside the head?

        Rob
    • A realistic Zelda that's creating a totally new look for the series yet uses the same sound effects from Windwaker which in turned used the same sound effects from OoT.

      I don't know why but it was distracting to me in WW. I hope they do some overhaulin' to the voices and such.

  • boo hoo (Score:2, Interesting)

    by computertheque ( 823940 )
    First off, that was barely an article and nothing at all for the masses to be made aware of.

    His complaints are more with the inherent nature of realistic games, but Zelda still isn't at that point. It's pretty clear that despite a more realistic look, almost everything in the game is stylized to a degree.

    Some people complain just to get attention, the least he could have done is have a decent arguement.
  • So who exactly is this guy? Some Random blogger? Tried going to his about page and can't figure out what language its in...

    Personally though I like the new look. If I post that on my blog can I get some Slashdot Linkage?
  • Am I the only person on this big ball of water, rock and vegetation crawling with meat incrusted skeletons we call god's green earth that thinks the latest Zelda is a complete and total sell out?

    What the hell is up with the ultra-realistic graphics that make it look like every other 3D game on the market, completely lacking in any true style or sense of art direction. Zelda always seemed to Zig when everyone else was Zagging, thumbing its nose at the the latest trends, yet continuing to rack up huge sales
    • To answer your question, no you're not alone. I'm sure there's a couple people out there that don't learn from experience that Nintendo's not going to let this one disappoint in art direction. You'll probably change your tune when you get your hands on the game. I'm no fanboy, but I've played enough Zeldas to know that the demo was really just to show the tech and build hubbub, the real shit's in the game.
    • I am hoping that this is the same person from the Grumpy Gamer site... http://grumpygamer.com/1440069 [grumpygamer.com]
    • I personally don't think that having graphics that don't differ enough from other games is going to water down the game itself. Wind Waker made a huge step in the right direction by taking a risk with Cel Shading, which was very successful according to just about everyone who's actually played it. It looks great and the graphics won't get out-dated quickly because the style has survived in cartoons for decades. The step to realism adds the risk of becoming dated (since something else can be 'more' realistic

  • I am in 100% agreement with this guy. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Grey Ninja ( 739021 ) on Wednesday March 23, 2005 @05:15AM (#12021473) Homepage Journal
    As for the new Legend of Zelda trailer, I am once again bothered by the game. There's no way in hell that it will get less than a T rating... and that just seems very contrary to the spirit of the franchise. Nevertheless, I do look forward to playing the game. It looks like it will be very good, and provide a take on the franchise like we have never seen before.


    That was what I had said upon viewing the most recent Zelda trailer. And I said pretty much the same thing after seeing the first one. I have no doubt that it will be an amazing game, and I have no doubt that I will very much enjoy it, and I have even less doubt that it will sell very well.

    But I still feel like I've lost a very good friend. Zelda was never about giving the vocal fans what they wanted. It was about taking a journey through the very imaginative mind of Shigeru Miyamoto. To remember what it was like to be that child walking through the forest and finding a lake. To be the child who overcomes all perils and finds buried treasure and saves the princess. For me, Wind Waker captured that perfectly and completely.

    The new Zelda just seems to be Nintendo's way of showing that it listens to its fans. But that isn't why they became successful in the first place. Nintendo got where they were by hiring designers with vivid imaginations and a natural sense of what was FUN. If Nintendo listened to its fans, Mario would be stealing cars and killing hookers. And I want no part of that.

    The current trend in thinking that every video game should carry an M rating needs to stop. I have way more fun playing an E rated Zelda game than a cut and paste M rated FPS.
    • You never know, They could still pull an E out of their hat. It doesn't look anymore violent the OOT, just more realistic...
    • we still havent seen the other environments and the dungeons/indoor areas.. and the zelda games change in style incrementally as well.. zelda to zelda 2 , back to zelda 3 style then the gameboy games, 2 polygons for the 2 n64 titles, cell shaded now realistic style..
    • But I still feel like I've lost a very good friend. Zelda was never about giving the vocal fans what they wanted. It was about taking a journey through the very imaginative mind of Shigeru Miyamoto. To remember what it was like to be that child walking through the forest and finding a lake. To be the child who overcomes all perils and finds buried treasure and saves the princess. For me, Wind Waker captured that perfectly and completely.

      Where was I when the vocal fans didn't like the original Zelda, Link'
      • "The only ones that have been met with shock or disapproval are Zelda II and Wind Waker."

        It is important to note that Zelda II wasn't developed by Miyamoto [miyamotoshrine.com] but by another team entirely. He just gave them a general idea and let them run with it. Interestingly, he considers Link to the Past as the real sequal to the first.

        As for Wind Waker, it boggles my mind the backlash that games receives. I loved it (not as much as OoT, but still a lot). In fact, you remove the cel shading, OoT and TWW are extrem
    • But now in the xbox era, the playground kids will be embarassed to play a "kiddie" game. Sure a mature gamer can love a fun nintendo game, but the insecure youths in the schools will be pressured to brag about the carnage they can inflict while playing GTA/Halo, this is easily observable by asking any under 18 xbox owner what they think of the gamecube. Nintendo has to adapt atleast somewhat to the current cultural zeitgeist if they want to avoid becomming irrelevent.
    • You make some good points, Ninja, but you shouldn't be applying them to Zelda. I've told this to you before, but here we go again. Who are we to say what is and isn't the "spirit" of Zelda? This is Shigeru Miyamoto's work, he's the only one that can decide what falls into step with Zelda. If anything, Zelda's "spirit" is not its artistic style-- the game has changed artistic styles more than almost any other series-- but rather its *gameplay*, which has remained just as true to the original NES title as ev
      • Mouse, I've told you before that I can't read your writing when it's all on one line. ;) I think it might be time to learn the non-breaking white space tag. =P But I will respond to a few points that caught my eye.

        You seem to assume M means bad- it's a typical Nintendo fanboy response that really gets on my nerves. "M" is just a videogame content rating, just as "R" is a movie content rating, and doesn't necessarily reflect quality in any way.

        Indeed. If you will note, I mentioned that in my post s

        • I had line breaks when I typed it, I swear, but they disappeared! o_O

          Those are all good examples, too, but whole unapplicable. Those are all single products, with a definitive style. Zelda is *not* in the same category. There are 10 installments in the Zelda series now, Ninja, ranging over nearly half a dozen different artistic styles. This game will be the 11th, and it, too, introduces a new style. there *is* no definitive "Zelda style"- that's where the fault in your argument lies. Zelda's art *changes*
          • That's where you are wrong. I would have welcomed whole heartedly a completely different graphical style. But I disagree with the new game, not because of art style... (as previous posters, you included have mentioned, it does bear close semblance to OoT.). But I disagree with the new game because of the general atmosphere I get from it. It could be the trailers, but I see a loss of the vision behind the game. If you will recall, Miyamoto himself said he didn't like the style of the Space World 2000 t
            • I'm not debating the fact that art style figures prominently into a game- Wind Waker demonstrated that better than any game I've ever played. But Zelda was never all that whimsical, and even the most whimsical looking installment still had dark undertones to it (just look at Wind Waker's ending for crying out loud- making it look cutesy doesn't change the fact that the game was very serious). The new art style isn't losing any "vision" you think you saw in any game.

              I'm also still confused as to how you're
            • You know, when Wind Waker came out, I said exactly that. I never thought that it looked too "kiddy" or anything like that. It's a video game. But certain franchises are better suited to it than others.

              I never thought of Zelda as dark like Resident Evil. But I never thought of it as light hearted and goofy like Kirby either. If a Kirby game was cell shaded, and it didn't stink (I'm looking at you, Kirby's Air Ride!) I'd be all over it. The style is SUPER apropriate for the franchise.

              But the Zelda ser
    • Wait... So first "you guys" complain that Nintendo doesn't listen enough and needs to "get with the times", and now you're saying Nintendo should ignore what their buyers want? That's stupid in so many ways (financial just being one).

      I'd be willing to bet that, before you actually played WW you were concerned if not angry about the design change from it's predacessor.

      So before you jump the gun and trash this game for looking too much like Ocarina Of Time (the best selling Zelda game ever I believe),
    • Being reminded of what its like to be a child is great and all, but I want to remember what its like to be a teenager staying out after dark, getting in fights with people bigger than me, thinking I can change the world by myself. This new Zelda looks like it may feed my mind in that respect.
    • Just a thought...

      The DS's 3D hardware is rumored to be quite capable of cel shading. I'm thinking, portable games tend to be much more acceptable to that kind of look than console titles, and with Four Swords and Minish Cap it's obvious that Nintendo has not abandoned that look. Could it be that we haven't seen the last cel-shaded 3D Zelda?
      • You make a very compelling point there. ;-) The GBA provided the 2D game genre with great life, and gave all of us old timers one last hurrah with our SNES style games. It's entirely possible that the DS will give us an entirely different retro-active experience.
  • Headline should read: Grumpy Gamer Disappointed By New Zelda Footage, Is Only One.
    • "Grumpy Gamer Disapopinted by New Zelda Footage, Is One of At Least Two."

      I can only speak for myself, but I *liked* Wind Waker's graphics.

      • Also, I can't spell "disappointed."
      • I liked them too. I liked them a lot. But if the next Zelda was like that, I would think Nintendo was getting lazy about it.

        They tend to switch up Zelda's graphical scheme every game or couple of games (last time we had Ocarina and Majora's Mask, this time we had Wind Waker and part of Four Swords GC). This is nothing new. It was just a bit harder to notice in the 8-bit and 16-bit days.

    • Right, because your little circle-jerk represents the entirety of humanity.

      Sorry to break it to you, but many people are disappointed, including some of us who have played every Zelda game in existence.

  • OK then (Score:5, Insightful)

    by FidelCatsro ( 861135 ) <(moc.liamg) (ta) (orstacledif)> on Wednesday March 23, 2005 @05:28AM (#12021513) Journal
    Well to me it just looks like an updated version of the style in Ocarina of time ,
    I mean seriously the graphics are just like they were with adult link (obviously with 7 years tech improvments).
    I think the zelda games are some of the best made , and i dont think this new one will disapoint , the main problem here is people have gotten used to the ultra cutsie windwalker type zelda , Ocarina of time had some rather dark graphics in places.Funny to think that i was hearing a great hoohaa about the windwalkers graphics being too cute just a few years back and now were moaning about this being too adult , It looks great and its sure to be a grand game , so lets not judge till we have seen the final trailer(also i think this new trailer looks a bit like the tech demo for the gamecube which i belive was the origional windwalker graphics)
    • The new Zelda looks like it's getting back to what Zelda was on the N64. Personally, after watching several pieces of footage for the new Zelda, and seeing the different sorts of new gameplay it is bringing, I am very excited about this game. The graphics look very nice and all, nothing too fancy, but the artwork is what serves to differentiate games graphically these days, and Zelda is looking fantastic.

      Silly, cutsie, cell-shaded, etc. graphics are not the only way to give a game unique visual appeal.

      • Grumpy gamer does not sound like a site to give you a two sided view , The name more says to me "pissed off rants" which is all well and good , but is this slashdot worthy even on the games page .
        The storys are for the news , these comments are for the opinion , and i am a stickler for unbiased news ( unless in some rare situations)

  • You can't please everyone all the time (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 23, 2005 @05:54AM (#12021586)
    ...and if you try, everyone will think you're stupid. Then again, sometimes pleasing some people some of the time gets you in hot water too. In Nintendo's case, with the kind of insane, impactful legacy of _relevance_ that they've created for themselves, that's just inevitable.

    Look, guys. Nintendo is held in such high regard in the industry that they are damned if they do and damned if they don't. This guy just happens to have a loud mouth and plenty of people around to listen, just like all the people who bitched about Wind Waker looking _not cookie-cutter enough_.

    So yeah, this person is unimpressed. Marvelous, really - the most notable event of my young life. I gave a damn about what the naysayers were yapping about while I was enjoying Zelda II, I gave a damn about what the snobs said while I was enjoying Wind Waker, and I'll give a damn about this guy's opinion when I get the chance to evaluate Zelda 2K5 for myself.

    And just a note to anybody with a long-term memory worth a damn....I seem to recall sprites from the 16-bit era being interchangeable across pretty much every game with the same perspective angle, too. As in, take any character sprite from any top-down grid-based RPG and stick it in another one, and almost nobody would be able to spot anything anomalous. How many ways does this guy want to see a forest rendered, anyway, to the degree that he WOULD be impressed? These are not artifacts of Zelda being dumbed down to mass appeal, or of 3D technology's introduction of blandness. This new Zelda, like all games worth talking about, is _ART_. Not all groundbreaking art is beautiful, and not all beautiful art breaks new ground.

    I look forward to playing this game, because as much as I may have seen trees rendered in similar fashion before, or as much as I may have seen enemies move in almost the same way, damn it, this is a Zelda game from EAD. All signs point to good things, including (IMO) the two trailers released so far.

  • In other news.. (Score:1, Offtopic)

    by Dogers ( 446369 )
    In other, equally interesting news, The Mad Poster hates taxes.

    Oh, you dont know who he is? Well, nevermind, it's news!

  • Obvious -5 (Score:3, Funny)

    by salesgeek ( 263995 ) on Wednesday March 23, 2005 @07:09AM (#12021864) Homepage
    What did you expect from the Grumpy Gamer? A happy review? Sunshine?

  • And? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Haeleth ( 414428 ) on Wednesday March 23, 2005 @07:21AM (#12021898) Journal
    What's wrong with realism? Ultimately, what's wrong with every game made using exactly the same graphics engine? All it would mean would be that content would replace technology as the distinguishing factor between games. Nobody complains that live-action movies all look the same!
    • Last time I checked Lord of the Rings didn't look a hell of a lot like The Matrix. The fact is that all (or at leaste most) games seem aiming at the same graphical look: lush outdoor nature scenery. I think it would be cool to see a little more thought put into whats in a gaming world.
    • "All it would mean would be that content would replace technology as the distinguishing factor between games."

      That, or they abandon the concept of distinguishing between games entirely. Have you see what's come out of Hollywood lately?

      Ultimatley, I'd say that's what the blogger is most afraid of.
    • I don't mind realism, it's kind of neat to see them try out different styles.

      My gripe however is the lack of consistancy. I don't think they follow up properly on the designs they establish. This new game just doesn't look 'Zelda' too me. The only way I could tell was because of Link's outfit.

      What happened to Link's nose btw? It used to be TWO PIXELS LONG. Now he's just a regular manga 'pretty boy'.

      Samus used to have brown hair (no varia), but they just had to make her into a blond bimbo to suit th

  • The soul of fantasy (Score:3, Insightful)

    by grumpygrodyguy ( 603716 ) on Wednesday March 23, 2005 @07:38AM (#12021948)
    Indeed, where has the mind gone?

    Just 20 years ago there were folks who spent hours engorging fantasy from the source(hint, not a CRT). After playing WoW for 3 weeks I decided to fire up another rogue-like ASCII game...because writing is such a fine art. It's almost as if the greatest part of the old starwars films had nothing to do with visuals at all, or even acting...it had to do with music and writing. The dialogue and screenplay and music were just so masterful and rythmic.

    It's strange how things become cheapened with accessability. Maybe it's struggeling that adds to the realism of the experience...being spoonfed fantasy makes it feel so plastic and unreal. Don't get me wrong, I love the new graphics and eye-candy....but the effect of that stuff wears off very quickly. I suppose it's like the love the Linux zealots have for their operating system, it takes a kind of genius to really dig-in and 'know' it. It's not something that can be sold.

  • "realism" doesn't matter... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by fredrikj ( 629833 ) * on Wednesday March 23, 2005 @08:05AM (#12022023) Homepage
    I don't care much whether the graphics are "realistic". What worries me about this trailer is that the graphics look crappy. The designers seem to be trying quite hard to create a "beautiful" Hyrule, but the result is artificial. The characters look boring (though a few of the monsters are interesting). The animation is just awful. And I see nothing interesting gameplay-wise.

    For reference, I thought A Link to the Past and Ocarina of Time were awesome. And I loved Wind Waker's graphical style but hated hated hated the gameplay.

    It's about time Nintendo comes up with some interesting new gameplay elements. Fludd (in Super Mario Sunshine) was brilliant, the stupid boat and the boring sea in Wind Waker were not.
    • Oh yeah, then riddle me this: Which of these two was more boring?

      A. Wind Waker's Great Sea
      B. Ocarina of Time's damnably large, mostly empty Hyrule Field?
      • The difference is that the Great Sea makes up 99.3% of the world area, the rest being stupid tiny islands (or rocks), whereas there are plenty of large and interesting places in OoT.

        You have a point though; the vast and boring Hyrule Field is one of Ocarina of Time's (minor) flaws.
        • The difference is that the Great Sea makes up 99.3% of the world area, the rest being stupid tiny islands (or rocks), whereas there are plenty of large and interesting places in OoT.

          But the Great Sea *does* have things going on in that space, like storms, more monsters than peahats and nighttime stalchildren, umpteen dozen platforms, submarines, ghost ship appearances, sunken treasure, boat battles, etc. And you tend to not spend that much extra time in each of Ocarina's other areas, none of which are as

  • Monkey Island too (Score:3, Insightful)

    by mnmn ( 145599 ) on Wednesday March 23, 2005 @08:08AM (#12022036) Homepage
    We played Monkey Island upto version 3, which was simple, clear and immersive. Sometimes 2D is so much expressive than 3D, especially the faces of the characters. Unless we're talking movie-class 3D, its unrealistic, shiny, roundish and bland, compared to 2D drawing and paintwork. Most 2D art is made either on paper and scanned, or 2d tracking devices for games...

    They screwed up Monkey Island, and other adventure games similarly. How about sonic the hedgehog? The only 2d-3d success story I can think of is Duke Nukem, which itself has stalled for different reasons.

    • And were you aware that that grumpy gamer is Ron Gilbert himself?
      Ron Gilbert is a computer game designer and programmer, best known for his work on several classic LucasArts adventure games, including Maniac Mansion and the first two Monkey Island games.
      Wiki [wikipedia.org]

      There are good 3d games. Just like there are lousy cookie-cutter 2d games, and horrible books.
  • After reading the Grumpy Gamers sensible and well reasoned complaints, Nintendo have taken his comments on board, returning the Zelda franchise to a stylish and retro look. You can see a screen capture from their recently rereleased trailer here [img223.exs.cx].

    Let's wait for the game, eh?

  • You can't please everyone. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Zangief ( 461457 ) on Wednesday March 23, 2005 @09:31AM (#12022516) Homepage Journal
    When Nintendo showed WindWaker for the first time, there were idiots who were saying "hey, it's not realistic, ergo, it sucks!".

    Now, when Nintendo shows a realistic zelda, idiots complain that "it's too realistic!".

    Windwaker was great, by the way. It had three problems:

    -It was too easy.
    -It was too short.
    -It had too many maps search in the main quest.

    Other than that, it was a great and beautiful game.
    • The problem I had with Wind Waker was not enough dungeons and not NEARLY enough combat... and that sucked because I thought the combat system was rather fun. Especially fighting 5 of those big guys that you had to cut the armor off of.
      • Yeah, they really failed to take advantage of the great combat system. AFAIK, the combat system for the new zelda will be the same or very similar. Assuming it is more difficult and has more fighting, it should be a good time.

      • Did you ever go through all fifty levels of the Savage Labrynith? After you get the Triforce map, there's a hidden extra thirty levels. Every non-boss, dry land monster in the game is there! The last floor is four top-level Darknuts at once!

        Yeah, it was beautiful.

        Anyway, I'm actually kind of getting tired of Zelda dungeons. In Wind Waker I saw them mostly as unwelcome interruptions from the important task of finding all the fun stuff there was to do in the world. I hear that Nintendo's thinking the s

  • Realistic? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by dfj225 ( 587560 ) on Wednesday March 23, 2005 @09:39AM (#12022593) Homepage Journal
    I don't see how the characters/objects in Zelda can be considered realistic. They certainly don't look like anything I've seen in my life. I suppose what he means is that a more typical approach was taken to use a more natural color pallete for textures as well as a visual style that is higher in detail than the bright, water-colored, cell shaded Zelda that is Windwaker. Personally, I am looking forward to the new (or old depending on how you view things) visuals in the next Zelda.
    • The point being made by the auther is not that you would see these things walking from your cubicle to the fridge for another can of Jolt. He's speaking about the propensity for game developers to make games that appear realistic/natural, and the side-effect of these games to look almost precisely like the others (exhibit A: games based on WWII).
      • While I think too many similar games in the market is a problem, I don't think this problem affects Zelda. When I saw the screens for the new Zelda, no one had to tell me what they were for -- I could tell just by looking at them. Even though they may not seem as original as Wind Waker, they still have a style that, I feel, can only be found in Zelda games.
        • I think a lot of that might be due to the usual suspects being present in the screenshots/movies (Link, and other common beasties). All told, I really enjoyed Wind Waker's stylings, and I think that this next game will definitely be worth playing. I think the main concern is that they put a lot of time into making the game graphically realistic without actually putting thought into making it artistically interseting, or improving the gameplay.

          Then again the game's not out, so it's hard to say either way

  • if he doesn't like it... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by rogabean ( 741411 ) on Wednesday March 23, 2005 @11:00AM (#12023393)
    He can just do what I did (do) ever since Ocarina came out. NOT PLAY. Personally I only liked the original Zelda and A Link to the Past. That was the style of Zelda I really liked. Four Swords was "ok". So instead of trying to jump on the "I hate fancy graphics" bandwagon... why doesn't he just.. umm I dunno.. STFU and play games he likes.

  • bah (Score:2)

    by Khuffie ( 818093 )
    it's filled with creatures, textures and buildings that could be seamlessly exchanged with any other 3D boy-mass game

    This could also read: "it's filled with sprites of creatures and buildings that could be seamlessly exchanged with any other 2D boy-mass game", and you can apply the same complaint to 2D games in general.

    Why does this guy get a lot of posts on Slashdot when all he does is whine about stupid things?

    • Why does this guy get a lot of posts on Slashdot when all he does is whine about stupid things?

      Oh, I don't know...maybe this [wikipedia.org]?

      Maniac Mansion, Monkey Island 1 & 2, Total Annihilation...yeah, all he does is whine, whine, whine. The games industry would have been better off without him.

  • Wee! (Score:1)

    by 1019 ( 262204 )
    Speculation is always fun! However, I always prefer to actually play the game first before making silly generalizations and assumptions. Maybe I'm just weird like that.
  • The HD trailer is available here [gametrailers.com].
  • Looks like he's not the only one wishing for cell shaded Zelda. He should play this [slashdot.org] instead.

  • Nintento just can't win... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by RevAaron ( 125240 ) <`revaaron' `at' `hotmail.com'> on Wednesday March 23, 2005 @12:11PM (#12024552) Homepage
    When Windwaker came out, people griped endlessly because it wasn't photorealistic. Whether it was as a reaction to the reception of Windwaker or not, we will soon have a more realistic-style Zelda. And everyone is still bitching. This particular fellow has no comments about Windwaker, but plenty of other folks bitched. So it's only fitting someone does now.

    Though I agree with him for the most part- I really am not interested in attempts at photorealistic games, not until they start to look really nice. So far, I've not seen anything anywhere near this level. Something that looks like the Final Fantasty movie, but maybe a smidge better.

    Am I the only one who sees this as the succesor to Ocarina? The graphic style is very similar, although much improved. Many of the same characters, etc. If anything, this seems to be the same Link as lived in the Ocarina time, though that's yet to be seen for sure. But what was so disturbing about the "photorealistic" Ocarina of Time?

    No matter what, whatever new Zelda game Nintendo puts out won't be just like the original NES game. Nor will it be like just like Ocarina of Time or a Link to the Past. A lot of folks seem to have a hard time coming to grips with that.
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • Not Cel-Shaded = Zelda: Source? (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I would love to hear more about how not using cel-shading or some derivative rendering style automatically makes a game photo-realistic and redundant. If you watch the trailer, it is blatantly obvious that Nintendo kept MANY things from Wind Waker - the stylized enemy defeat explosions, the crisp stylish enemy design (especially the jumping statues), and more. Just because it's not a flat shaded 'toon game, it doesn't mean that it's Zelda: Source.
  • So first everyone complains that Wind Waker looks too cartoonish, and then they complain that this new one is too realistic.

    What if Nintendo wants this game to look as realistic as possible? Is that so wrong? They felt like trying out cel-shading (to great success), and now theyr'e going for a different graphical style, namely realism. What's wrong with that? I'm just worried that gameplay is going to be the same except you can fight on a horse this time.

    Oh yeah, and by the way, Grumpy Gamer, does the t
  • complaining about how much I hated the Cel shaded graphics of the previous Zelda. Never did even buy that one.

    To each his own, I guess.
  • It seems to me this is 100% a matter of taste. Personally, I would prefer to play something that looks real over something that is a cartoon. I prefer NOT to play anime-style games. When I was growing up with 8-bit Nintendo graphics, I would imagine the characters in my mind as being realistic, not cartoons. (8-bit graphics certainly left a lot to the imagination...) I've always seen the progress of video game graphics as moving toward realism. I want to see games reach a photorealistic level. I don'
  • Look at ICO for proof of that.

    Even if Nintendo doesn't manage to give this new Zelda a distinctive art style, though (which I seriously doubt), it'll still look much better than that cel-shaded crap that they foisted on us last time.

    Rob
  • Mod me however you want for this one, for I was once a Nintendo fan boy too.

    But here's a thought. What if Nintendo went the way of Atari and Sega and decided to just stick to making high-quality games, and gave up the console business?

    Their Game Cube ain't doin' so hot. I don't think the DS will do very well with the PSP hot on its tails. And with the next-gen PS and XB coming out very soon, I don't see Big-N's future getting any brighter.

    BUT... what Nintendo has always done VERY well is make excelle
    • Oh gee cause since Sega stopped making game machines the games have been SOOO cool. Oh wait thats not true. Sonic games have been a big dissapointment and who knows what would happen to Nintendo if they stopped making games machines, they might implode.
  • I never had any complaints about previous Zelda games' graphics. I wasn't sure I would like the Windwakers graphics until after I tested out the game - and I was blown away; until I bought it, that is. I played through and beat the game, and it was pathetically easy. I went through entire dungeons without so much losing a single piece of a heart - even beating the bosses for the first time. And then what happened with the whole Triforce fork thing? It was horribly lame. I don't think that we need to worry
  • I've read all the comments and nowhere does anyone point out the amazing thing Nintendo has done. The Zelda franchise has been slowly separating into a "young Link" and "teen/adult Link" set of subfranchises for years. It was absolute genius for Miyamoto to finalize the split by making each subfranchise bear its own presentation. Just look at the boxart for Four Swords or Minish Cap: the games feature young Link, and hence both have the new Windwaker-styled Link. This new Zelda game is the next logical
  • It is still in development. They made these trailers to please the fans who would be impressed by graphics. The art and the gameplay will come later - they're much harder to convey in a 30-second trailer made on a deadline.
  • One of the more addicting games I have played on the GC was Animal Crossing. My friends and I were talking about how cool it would be to have a Zelda game based on the Animal Crossing engine.

    I pictured it like a Link to the Past, but with the new engine (which kinda reminded me of a 2.5D LTTP anyway with the land setup and stuff). My friends thought it would be a good game. The engine had the basics for a decent Zelda game; a good inventory system, character interaction with NPCs. The only thing needed wou
  • Since 1986 when the original LOZ broke the ground with its gameplay style and involving storyline its become the basis for everyone other one in the series as well as a whole heap of other titles (Final Fantasy etc) it wouldn't matter how the graphics looked after the games released because the storyline and gameplay are the key things. And anyway the only people that really bitched afetr Wind Waker was realesed were the morons who only wanted hyper-realism in the graphics and those that don't like the idea

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