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Role Playing (Games) Government The Courts News

D&D Blamed For Stabbing Deaths 264

Posted by Zonk from the excellent-detective-work dept.
Grymalkin writes "A man is in custody for allegedly stabbing 3 people to death in King of Prussia, PA last week. Now it appears that the district attorney believes there may be a link between the murders and the Dungeons and Dragons RPG. From the article: 'I mean, you have many, many stab wounds and those 'Dungeons and Dragons' fantasy games involve swords and knives and daggers and things of that nature. There may be a connection but I can't say for sure.'" Wow. There are a lot more D&D players than I thought there were, what with all the stabbings and all.
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D&D Blamed For Stabbing Deaths More

D&D Blamed For Stabbing Deaths

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  • So that means... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Durinthal ( 791855 ) on Tuesday March 29, 2005 @03:01AM (#12074043)
    All vehicular homicides can be connected to Nascar, right?

  • Stab wounds... (Score:3, Funny)

    by 0x461FAB0BD7D2 ( 812236 ) on Tuesday March 29, 2005 @03:06AM (#12074065) Journal
    Personally, I blame Chris Rock's guns-for-knives program.

    The DA is clearly just an attention whore.

    • Re:Stab wounds... (Score:2, Redundant)

      by NanoGator ( 522640 )
      "Personally, I blame Chris Rock's guns-for-knives program."

      "I don't think we need gun control. We need bullet control! If a bullet cost five thousand dollars, there'd be no innocent bystanders!"
  • "I mean, you have many, many stab wounds and those 'Dungeons and Dragons' fantasy games involve swords and knives and daggers and things of that nature. There may be a connection but I can't say for sure."
    ? How the hell did this man get a law degree , Seriously it may have something to do with D&D , though the evidence is um ,well,, if that is all they have to link it to D&D, then may i sugest the motive could have been related to pumping up a football , as that has lots of thrusting motions involved if you use a hand pump.

    On a more serious note , The man obviously has some serious psychological issues of which i have no doubt contributed to these murders , the only reason the D&D link should be brought up is in establishing motive if you want to have the man released to the care of a mental health ward .

    Games do not turn people into psychotic killing machines , they may however shape the style but if it was not the game it would have been some other influence .Jack the ripper was never known to play counter strike ,Charlie manson Never played Mortal kombat.

    • Re:Well atleast its not computer games this time (Score:5, Insightful)

      by dasunt ( 249686 ) on Tuesday March 29, 2005 @04:12AM (#12074282)

      Everyone knows that D&D only caused murders in the 1980s.

      In the 1990s, it was metal music.

      In the post-2000 world, Grand Theft Auto is the cause of all crime.

      • Why stop there?

        Socrates it was telling stories to children (He was jailed and arguably 'killed' for that)

        Then plays were blamed (children acting out/seeing fictional violence? But how can they tell the difference?!) I can't for the life of me remember who famously received criticism for that - Demosomeone.
        • Tonight, we have a case with stabbing, stealing a handbag, then running away, stealing a car, crushing cops and pedestrian followed with a 150 miles pursuit on E124.

          The court has decided to incriminate the D&D, GTA, Mafia, Olympics 1980, Carmageddon and NFS games...

          The whole redaction of your favorite 8'clock news magazine has been incriminated in the counter suit after it was proved it was their main themes for the last 10 years....

      • Re:Well atleast its not computer games this time (Score:5, Funny)

        by Alsee ( 515537 ) on Tuesday March 29, 2005 @07:05AM (#12074787) Homepage
        In the 2010's Scrabble will be the cause of all sorts of crime.

        District attorney Duce Dastor: I mean, we got this ransom note, and those 'Scrabble' games involve words and letters and vowels and things of that nature. There may be a connection but I can't say for sure.

        -
      • Back in 2000 or 2001 a man by the name of Mucko took a couple of guns to work and killed 7, I think, of his co-workers. A couple of days later, the Boston Herald had a story about the investigation and what police found at his apartment:

        Books on depression
        Medication for various mental disorders ... ... ... ...and Dungeons and Dragons books.

        They didn't go so far as to SAY there was a connection to the killings, but they were kind of pulling you in that direction.

        THE MAN IS A NERD! OF COURSE HE HAD D&D
      • I read a very good article about violence and computer games. It mentioned that throughout the last centuary there has always been somethat that is corrupting tht youth. First cinema in 1920s, then comic books in the 1950s, etc..
      • no, D&D only caused mass suicides in the 1980s - murders by goth cults didn't happen until the 1990s.

        Heavy metal has been the primary source of murder since the 1970s - we all know that Lemmy of Motorhead himself kills 100-200 every concert and his roadies work in conjuction with the CIA and Jimmy Hoffa to cover it up by donating all the spilt blood and bodies to GWAR. Violent video games are the source of all murder, especially if they have a metal soundtrack - like that Prince of Persia, Warrior

    • Re:Well atleast its not computer games this time (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      How the hell did this man get a law degree

      Don't forget, you're living in a country that encourages its lawyers to twist any legislation available to their advantage (and there is a ton of legislation to choose from), encourages poor standards of education that help guarantee (amongst other things) putting twelve idiots into jury boxes, encourages near-radical anti-anything UnChristian to help whip up the public fervour about such an issue, and also involves a cult of personality surrouding a leader who's
    • I don't see what the big deal was. Slashdot loves running these stories, two days ago [slashdot.org] they mis-construed a story about how the boy made a violent cartoon as being an anti-game statement.

      This is another case where it's poorly applied. The attorney made some vague comments that D&D may have been involved. If they were a bunch of football buddies, he'd say maybe there was football involved. If there was a shower curtain lying around, he'd say maybe there was a shower involved.

    • Re:Well atleast its not computer games this time (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Seumas ( 6865 ) on Tuesday March 29, 2005 @05:15AM (#12074454)
      Fortunately, good old religion never causes people to do strange things like this. If we must restrict by age or ban entirely games, movies and pencil and paper RPGs, then we must ban bibles of every religion as well.

      There are countless recent events where people have directly claimed that religion and/or religious material lead them to the violent acts they took.

      There's the guy who held a gun store up by knife point so he could use the stolen gun to go rescule Terri Schaivo. He said, to the gun store owner, that god was with him and that he was either with god or against him in rescuing Terri.

      Then there's all the people in the last couple of years who have chopped off their children's arms and legs, filled a little girl's stomach full of bleach and then sat on her until she died (for having sex), stoned a girl to death, chained a girl to a treat as punishment for sex and that guy who offed his wife, child and himself because he believed the end is near. All in the name of religion.

      Any time some conservative or religious nutcase tries to tell you all of these other things must be controlled, suggest to him that the same applies to his own propaganda and that he should settle up his own house before hypocritically lobbing grenades into the camp of others.
      • Don't forget the shooting last month at a hotel where an apocalyptist christian group was having a conference. Six plus the shooter himself. Yep, religion turns people into mass-murderers. Never mind that the guy was crazy to begin with.

      • Re:Well atleast its not computer games this time (Score:5, Insightful)

        by theMerovingian ( 722983 ) on Tuesday March 29, 2005 @10:56AM (#12076365) Journal

        Hmmm... I am both a Christian and a video gamer/D&D player. That stuff is just inane fun, and it only adversely affects people who have trouble distinguishing fiction from reality. I can guarantee there have been crazy people willing to kill, steal, rape, and commit heinous crimes LONG before the advent of RPG's. To assume otherwise is a logical fallacy.

        In the same vein, some of these very same crazy people mentally associate themselves with the forms of religion. Jesus even said that there is a parallel between the amount we forgive others, and the amount that God forgives us. Obviously it is not scripturally accurate to kill or steal with a perverse notion of social justice.

        I guess with this long-winded reply that no one will probably read, I'm just saying that certain people are willing to commit violent crimes, and will make up reasons to justify it in their head.

        Ultimately, the best we can do as a society is to raise our children well, help those in poverty, and make sure that our prison system is focused on reform and individual improvements rather than simple incarceration.

        It makes me sick to see people treat others so poorly, and you are right to be horrified at these violent crimes. It is in no way keeping with the teachings or life of Jesus, and in fact Jesus would be among the first to condemn such actions.

        • Well, wasn't that what was happening back in Jesus' time? You had the religious leaders condemning anyone and everyone. Jesus came along and said, "You're all screwed up and need help. If you loved me, you'd try not to do anything to make me sad, but hey, I understand nobody's perfect ...except for me."

          Expected troll:
          Something along the line of "yeah, those fictional characters rock." (Although Jesus's existance and history have been backed by many sources. The only disparate part is whether or not he was

    • Re:Well atleast its not computer games this time (Score:5, Informative)

      by Alsee ( 515537 ) on Tuesday March 29, 2005 @07:24AM (#12074874) Homepage
      Seriously it may have something to do with D&D

      Nope, it almost certainly isn't D&D.

      Here is a second source for the story. [philly.com] Philadelphia Inquirer.

      Many of Still's friends, including Eichinger, were also involved in "role-playing games" that are like the Dungeons & Dragons game.

      Games like D&D. Wording that almost certainly means that they did not play D&D. Anyone want to wager on whether the RPG they were playing didn't even revolve around swords and knives? Perhaps a game more focused on laser pistols and blasters or something? Chuckle.

      Of course his homicidal motivation was obviously caused by D&D...

      Eichinger allegedly killed Still for the same reasons that motivated him to murder Heather Greaves, his former coworker at an Upper Merion Acme, prosecutors said - he had wanted a romantic relationship but had been rejected.
      "And he was jealous because they had other boyfriends," Castor said.

      Yep, damn RPGs and all that sex. Chuckle.

      -
    • How the hell did this man get a law degree?

      You must have a really good spam filter, if you can't even hazard a guess.

  • It's a goddamn form of expression (Score:4, Insightful)

    by bersl2 ( 689221 ) on Tuesday March 29, 2005 @03:10AM (#12074075) Journal
    Had this person not been exposed to D&D, he would have expressed his wish to kill in some other way.

    I can't quite refine this one, but: If one has natural musical talent but no formal training and no wide exposure to many different forms of expression, one will make music according to pre-existing patterns and experimentation.

    Is this example not similar?

  • Where, PA? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Kris_J ( 10111 ) * on Tuesday March 29, 2005 @03:10AM (#12074080) Homepage Journal
    "King of Prussia, PA" -- is that a real town? And here I was thinking that "Medieval England, Iowa" was just a lame joke. Now I'm thinking of getting an atlas...

  • Reno 911 (Score:5, Funny)

    by riceslimbo ( 737901 ) on Tuesday March 29, 2005 @03:18AM (#12074116)
    Someone's gonna post these, might as well get it out of the way:

    boots of escaping [comedycentral.com]

    axe scuffle [comedycentral.com]

  • I hope its true... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by zappepcs ( 820751 )
    If they prove his bad morals are because of D&D, then maybe they can link bad teeth or eyesight to some other source and my insurance will have to pay for corrective actions, after suing the appropriate game maker?

  • Not Surprising (Score:2, Insightful)

    by TiredGamer ( 564844 )
    It was only a matter of time before D&D became a target again for those looking for reasons for homicidal mania... other than the person being a homicidal maniac. Perhaps the same lawyer going after Rockstar will start a new suit against Wizards of the Coast for the families of the deceased individuals. Somewhere in the shadows I can hear Jack Chick cackling...

  • Yet another D&D tragedy (old) (Score:3, Informative)

    by Dark Coder ( 66759 ) on Tuesday March 29, 2005 @03:26AM (#12074147)
    Remember Dallas Egbert?

    http://ptgptb.org/0006/egbert.html
  • You Bastard!

    I'll kill you!

    ... wait... I must consult my dice for my next move.
  • I thought Prussa dissolved? Aren't we calling it Poland these days?

    and who are you then?

    I am your King

    well I didn't vote for you...

  • seems that... (Score:4, Funny)

    by dunkelfalke ( 91624 ) on Tuesday March 29, 2005 @03:51AM (#12074224)
    seems that [SA]HatfulOfHollow has what he wanted at last.
  • I mean, the violence in D&D is typically glossed over (some might say to its detrement -- barbarian heroes don't seem to live up to their Conanic legacy without rivers of gore to wade through). You roll. You hit. You kill the monster or it kills you. The survivors gets on with their lives. Not a lot of description going on, when it comes to combat.

    Now The Passion of the Christ... there you have some violence! And no matter how you couch it, as being history, religion, passion play, statement of faith, what have you, it cannot be denied that it presents its violent images much more vividly than any DM ever did. If you buy into the watching-violence-causes-violence thing, then it seems obvious that it undoubtedly causes more RL violent behavior than D&D does. (And kids do watch it -- sometimes at parental behest!)

    When is a lawyer going to come out and say that stabbings may be caused by Mel Gibson movies, is what I'd like to know.

    • Re:Could Passion of the Christ cause stabbings? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by QMO ( 836285 ) on Tuesday March 29, 2005 @07:39AM (#12074925) Homepage Journal
      Quote: "If you buy into the watching-violence-causes-violence thing"

      What amazes me is that many people believe that what we watch DOESN'T affect us.

      If only there were real, irrefutable, evidence of that then television, radio, newspapers, and internet would cease to exist as we know them.

      The fact is that there is plenty of very good evidence that what we see/hear/read affects us. That's why you can make HUGE amounts of money by advertising. It would be irrational (IMO) to believe that what we see affects us only in how we spend, and not in our other behaviors.

      Note that this doesn't place the blame for bad behavior (or the praise for good behavior) on the people that create stuff for us to see/hear/read. (ie. It's not my fault if you kick the dog after reading this.)
    • With one slight difference. The pain inflicted was not portrayed as being a good thing. It was portrayed as being done by evil men. Violence in other movies and games are glorified.
      • Ironically back then, Jesus was viewed by many of the Roman populace as being an evil man and a bad influence for the people. He was killed, many rejoiced, and many still do.

        I for one could care less, if God was my dad and he let me die, that would be the end of our long talks.

        And as for violence being glorified, try the news, one minute, "Your Army Needs You!", next minute, boom! There goes some new recruits!

        Video games if any put a comedic spin on violence, making it family fun. Jesus would get more of

  • It was only a matter of time. (Score:5, Funny)

    by King_of_Prussia ( 741355 ) on Tuesday March 29, 2005 @04:11AM (#12074277)
    I have been trying to institute a ban on D&D in my hometown for many years now, but the nerds just wouldn't listen. I guess one of them finally snapped and went on a murderous rage fuelled by satan and cheetos.

  • Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Tuesday March 29, 2005 @04:13AM (#12074285)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • Behind the scenes at someone's office... (Score:5, Funny)

    by tuxedobob ( 582913 ) * <tuxedobob.mac@com> on Tuesday March 29, 2005 @04:37AM (#12074365)
    Mike: Hey, Joe?
    Joe: Yeah Mike?
    Mike: Someone just got stabbed.
    Joe: Hmmm.... we should probably blame it on video games.
    Mike: Nah, I don't think so. Everyone else is doing that. And some people say there's no proof?
    Joe: Well, how about D&D? That's kinda like video games, and it's based on the occult, and Satan is bad.
    Mike: Yeah, that might work. Let's go with that.

  • Logic Saves (Score:3, Interesting)

    by skinfitz ( 564041 ) on Tuesday March 29, 2005 @05:27AM (#12074485) Journal
    Once again, Logic Saves:

    If
    "Violent crime is inspired by media violence" is true;

    Games are a form of media

    Books are a form of media

    ...therefore...

    The Bible is an inspiration for violence as it contains violence.

    Lets see them get out of that. Oh wait - let me guess - there is some law being passed to exempt the Bible for being blamed for anything.
  • How many people stab in D&D? Any decent combat munchkin will use a sword or battleaxe. And nobody stabs with those. They'll try to get a decent swing.

  • Comeback. (Score:5, Funny)

    by Gen. Rasputin X ( 716134 ) on Tuesday March 29, 2005 @05:54AM (#12074566) Homepage
    I guess it's true that D&D is making a comeback, after all, it's been years since anyone blamed the game for anything.

    Unless of course he's blaming it on the D&D xbox game...

    Or of course the D&D movie. I can see that causing someone to kill.
  • I couldn't resist posting this [chick.com].

    As we all know, playing D&D and computer games leads to mental deformity, satanism, inbreeding, communism, and foreign beer consumption.

    In a similar vein, your son could be a computer hacker!!! [adequacy.org] Parents beware, do not allow your children to turn into the Columbine trench coat mafia. Lock them indoors with some truly wholesome literature. Make sure that our country does not succumb to this dark menace.

  • He didn't mean to kill those men, (Score:5, Funny)

    by MykeBNY ( 303290 ) on Tuesday March 29, 2005 @07:37AM (#12074920)
    he was attacking the darkness.
  • Was Tom Hanks Questioned? Anybody remember Mazes and Monsters? [imdb.com]
  • Anyone who grew up in an even slightly rural or conservative community in the 80s heard all this crap before.

    So of course they blame that "devuhl wahshup" game, it's in their nature - they're hicks.

  • This just proves that the Israeli military was right [slashdot.org] and gamers aren't to be trusted.
  • them [medievaltimes.com]
  • Stabbing deaths have seen a sharp decline over the last 500 years or so; therefore I suggest that we blame "Howitzer" for the increase in those killed by explosions.

  • Obg. Futurama (Score:5, Funny)

    by Xaroth ( 67516 ) on Tuesday March 29, 2005 @09:47AM (#12075764) Homepage
    "Hi! I'm Gary Gygax, and I'm..."

    rolls dice

    "glad to meet you!" ...who knows? Maybe the guy just crit-failed on his encounter disposition roll.
  • Here come the Chick tracts! Be prpared to find Dark Dungeons stuck under a wiper blade if you park withing a block of a comic book or game store. The fundies will have a field day with this.
  • Jack Thompson must be saying "damn! why the heck he didnt used a gun or a car! I mean is the 21st century for crying out loud!" he must be writting an anonymous petition to Rockstar right now demanding more knives so he can keep making a living out of suing them.

  • Bagel store implicated (Score:3, Funny)

    by hoggoth ( 414195 ) on Tuesday March 29, 2005 @10:52AM (#12076327) Journal
    The DA has just found out that the suspect had recently gotten bagels at a so-called 'Bagel Store' where he witnessed slashing and sawing motions with a sharp knife perpetrated on a bagel as symbolic proxy for a murder victim.

    "Bagels may be involved," quoted the DA as he himself chewed on a bagel, unaware of the sinister implications of his actions.

  • As usual, the Slashdot editors are the ones going off the deep end here.

    Note that DA Castor says that there might be a connection, or there might not. He's not demonizing D&D, nor are either news agency making it their headline.

    We don't know more than a fraction of the facts here. For instance, the D&D link might become a whole lot more plausible if the murder weapon was a "fantasy knife" like they sell at sci fi cons. Or if the suspect's apartment was plastered with knives, swords and D&D par

    • Re:Need more data. (Score:2, Insightful)

      by ostermei ( 832410 )

      Note that DA Castor says that there might be a connection, or there might not. He's not demonizing D&D, nor are either news agency making it their headline.

      Actually, D&D is being demonized by this because of the way it's being handled. You're correct in that the media isn't coming right out and saying "D&D made him do it, it's bad and needs to be destroyed," but Mr. Castor even mentioning it when there's possibly no link whatsoever is just irresponsible. If it turns out that D&D did have

  • is that he wasn't a victim of D&D, but, rather, bad customer service [giantitp.com].

    Sometime you just gotta kill someone after dealing with a prick like that. ;-)

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