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E3 Businesses Nintendo

More Hints at Nintendo's Revolution 231

The Nintendo press conference touched on aspects of the Nintendo Revolution, but offered no details on what "the" revolution is. No word on the controllers or when the console will be released. One new tantilizing aspect of the console was announced, though: "The console also will have downloadable access to 20 years of fan-favorite titles originally released for Nintendo® 64, the Super Nintendo Entertainment System® (SNES) and even the Nintendo Entertainment System® (NES)." No word on pricing, of course, but exciting nonetheless.
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More Hints at Nintendo's Revolution

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  • Hah. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @01:53PM (#12557613)
    Bye bye, emu sites.
    • Doubtful. Even if Nintendo were to offer its entire library online, for free (as in beer), there would still be emu sites to "provide backups" of 3rd party titles. Also, if someone doesn't own a Revolution, they presumedly wouldn't be able to take advantage of this and would still want the emulators.
  • good luck (Score:3, Funny)

    by Reignking ( 832642 ) on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @01:58PM (#12557668) Journal
    Nintendo can't even keep their web site up now, and they're going to offere downloadable content?
    • No wonder Nintendo.com went down, it's running a Gamecube Web Server!!! http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=nintendo. com [netcraft.com]

      (Yeah, yeah, Solaris OS... Blah blah blah)
  • Wonderings (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Agilus ( 471376 )
    I wonder what the limits of this download service will be?

    It would be awesome if you could download some of these games if you had purchased them previously (NES and SNES games), but I doubt they'd offer that service. It would be too much of a pain to implement.

    Also, I wonder if they'll ever let you download Gamecube and Revolution games? I figure the answer to that is "no" because the games are so big. Bandwidth would be a problem, as downloading a full game would take -forever. Also, the size constr
    • Re:Wonderings (Score:3, Informative)

      by SetupWeasel ( 54062 )
      Super Mario Sunshine was a specific example of a game that could be downloaded.
      • Don't the GameCube discs have a capacity of 1.5GB, or something like that? Even if Super Mario Sunshine only uses half the disc, that's still a lot to download.
        • Sure, if it were just an image of the disc, however, there's a lot of ways they could make the download more palatable:

          1. given the faster processor, more agressive texture compression (J2k?), and re-compression to DXTx at runtime, is possible.

          2. The entire game doesn't need to be downloaded to start playing.

          3. drop the texture res for the quick-start download, replace FMV with in-game rendered stuff, more agressive compression music & voice.

          4. have a small teaser game (like some new "secret levels"
    • Actually, on Nintendo's website, it does say that this system will finally have the built in SD adaptor they've been talking about doing for ages.
  • Hm. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Snowspinner ( 627098 ) * <{ude.lfu} {ta} {dnaslihp}> on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @02:03PM (#12557731) Homepage
    Online Smash Bros and a launch library consisting of all GC games as well as large swaths of the N64, SNES, and NES?

    I could see this working well for Nintendo. It continues with their trend of fighting the console wars on their own terms. Not bad.
    • No kidding. Right now, I only own an SNES. I've been planning to get a gamecube + GBA adaptor mainly b/c of all the older games being rereleased for GBA plus a few gamecube games. I was already planning to wait til the Revolution came out so that the gamecube price would drop, but now I still might wait - for the Revolution. The deciding factor will be whether or not I can get Tetris Attack for it.
  • by NightWulf ( 672561 ) on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @02:03PM (#12557739)
    Pictures of the console
    http://media.cube.ign.com/articles/615/615030/imgs _1.html [ign.com]

    Pictures of the Zelda trailer
    http://cube.ign.com/articles/615/615045p1.html [ign.com]

  • by MBCook ( 132727 ) <foobarsoft@foobarsoft.com> on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @02:12PM (#12557867) Homepage
    There are pictures and some facts here [ign.com]. The thing that is the most interesting is the last fact:

    Freedom of design: A dynamic development architecture equally accommodates both big-budget, high-profile game "masterpieces" as well as indie games conceived by individual developers equipped with only a big idea.

    Does this mean that Nintendo will let us mess with it? I would love to be able to program it. Not only would that increase sales, it would foster talent and good will towards Nintendo. Considering how large the GB/GBA development community is, I would think that would be a good thing. Also, the devices that people use to develop for the GBA Nintendo is always fighting because they can be used for piracy. But if you could develop from the get-go (or maybe with a $50 or $100 kit) people wouldn't need to reverse engineer things to run their own code.

    Will Nintendo do it? I kinda doubt it, but I would really love it if they did.

    Either way, if it makes it easier to make good games without needing huge teams of programmers to endlessly tinker to get decent performace, it could still be a very good thing.

    On a side note though, the Zelda screens don't look as good as many of the PS3/X360 screens. Let's hope there is better to come (based on how much better the GC got though, it should still be great).

    • by |/|/||| ( 179020 ) on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @02:22PM (#12557979)
      The Zelda game is for GC, not next-gen.
    • The independent developers thing is the most interesting thing I've heard about any of the consoles in this generation. (I wonder if it weren't a direct response to Greg Costikiyan's comments about Iwata's speech at GDC....)

      Shame it'll probably not be homebrew-level development, but more along the lines of the requirements to join the development programs already in place (and viewable at warioworld.com [warioworld.com].
    • If they REALLY want to tweak MS' nipples (uh, in a bad way, that is) - what they SHOULD do is allow homebrew development, with the ability to sell your work on their online service.

      It'd certainly be rare to pay anything more than a nickel for the vast majority of the drivel that would be produced, but hell, if I could sell some game for 5 cents to even just a thousand people..
      Well that just gives me enough money to go buy a game!
    • Does this mean that Nintendo will let us mess with it? I would love to be able to program it. Not only would that increase sales, it would foster talent and good will towards Nintendo.

      Now that would be REVOLUTIONary! A console that not merely allowed but enabled home-brew/shareware development out of the box. I know there are homebrew developers for Dreamcast, and that Sony had Net Yaroze, but those were both extremely niche things.

  • Viva la Revolution! (Score:4, Interesting)

    by rAiNsT0rm ( 877553 ) on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @02:20PM (#12557957) Homepage
    How nice is this thing?!?, I'm so totally not a big N fanboy, but quickly turning into one. You can have your PS3 and Xbox multi-processor multi-hundred dollar systems that are mainly media systems, I want a game console and so far Nintendo is hitting the mark.

    Downloadable content is phenomenal!!! I can play old favorites quickly and easily with no emulation woes, I just hope the payment system is similar to iTunes. A buck to have Excitebike, Zelda, FF would be amazing... I'd probably go up to $5-10 for newer stuff but not much over that.

    I just want to see the controller, it is said to be the true revolution here and I'm sure it will be. This is what was needed in gaming, a return to the core focus. Sony and MS are missing out IMO, the Revolution is my only hope for gaming's future without juvenile "mature" titles like GTA and the like.
    • Downloadable content is phenomenal!!! I can play old favorites quickly and easily with no emulation woes

      Unlike a community-maintained emulator, an official emulator probably won't let you patch a fan translation of a Japan-only game to Englisch.

  • Have they mentioned the idea of letting 3rd-party companies offer current games for download?

    True, most current games would be too large, but it would be quite awesome if you could buy simple, independently developed (but N-approved) games via the same method that the back catalog games will be downloaded...

    It would be really interesting if smaller companies could have a direct distribution route for "smaller" (but still innovative gameplay-wise) games.
  • Wow... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by dmayle ( 200765 ) * on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @02:35PM (#12558143) Homepage Journal

    What with Microsoft finally coming through on the Xbox backwards compatibility, and now this, it's pretty obvious that all three of the console makers finally get it.

    The size of a game library can be just as important as the number of quality games. Consumers like choice. Just like with music, so it is with videogames. This is something that Nintendo failed to address with the Nintendo64 and the Gamecube. It's almost painful to see how well they get it when it comes to the portable market (GameBoy and family), but not their home consoles.

    I, for one, am hoping they do the right thing, and make the library available for free. While they'll miss out on some revenues of old games, they'll have a guaranteed sell for the Revolution (and Nintendo typically sells it's hardware at break-even or profit), and a footstep into future sales. Combine this with sales of Gamecube games that will also work in the Revolution, and Nintendo could see itself launched into the forefront of the three console makers.

    Interestingly enough, it's mostly thanks to companies like Netflix and Amazon that these companies are beginning to understand. They've made such a profitable market out of niche sales, that big business is being forced to recognize the power that is the little guy, instead of just pandering to hit sales. In the business world, they're calling this "The Long Tail", and it's turning out to be huge money. (So much so, that business executives everywhere are sitting up and taking notice.) There are articles in The Economist [economist.com] and Wired [wired.com]. The traditional thinking has been that 80% of revenues typically comes from 20% of the titles, and it's been true for a long time. However, in the internet world, where you're not limited by shelf space, and you can aggregate diverse markets, the other 80% of titles (niche titles) can bring in as much money as the most popular 20%.

    Nintendo has always excelled at putting out hits (Zelda, Mario, Metroid, Pokemon, etc.), which is why I think they've typically ignored this facet of business, but I think that even they may be starting to take notice. Here's hoping so :-)

  • by TD-2779 ( 840642 ) on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @02:38PM (#12558188)
    If they do this right, they can EASILY make lots of money off the emulation crowd. Most of us have no problems downloading & tweaking emulators, but the "mass market" doesn't have the patience/skills for that. If they target the pricing correctly(i.e. NOT the $20 they were charging for the GBA versions of these games) I don't see why people won't play this JUST for the nostalgia.

    Some thoughts:

    - If I download games to my SD card, can I somehow back them up to my PC?

    - Would *I* pay more than $1-$2 dollars for an old NES game? How about SNES? N64?

    - They seemed to mention Super Mario Sunshine as a downloadable game! I wonder if this is correct, because it must not have used all of the 1.5GB on the GameCube disc then.

    - Nintendo really IS going out of there way to be different this time. If the specs turn out to be THAT much lower than the competition it will pretty much rule out lots of direct ports.
    • Would *I* pay more than $1-$2 dollars for an old NES game?

      I don't know, but they are going for roughly $5 a piece in stores like EBWorld and Gamestop, with some classic titles reaching $25. A dollar seems right for me, though - they could adopt the iTunes model. As far as backups go, though. I wouldn't be surprised if a purchase was locked to a particular console and upon its deletion, the server keeps track of which consoles downloaded that particular title and just reserved it upon demand. Likewise, down

  • Interesting (Score:5, Insightful)

    by mcc ( 14761 ) <amcclure@purdue.edu> on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @02:54PM (#12558406) Homepage
    The XBox 360 gets unveiled; it hits the slashdot front page. The Sony PS3 gets unveiled; it hits the slashdot front page. The Nintendo Revolution gets unveiled; it goes to the games.slashdot section page.

    Hmm.

    Anyhow, Nintendo pretty much let down anyone who was hoping for real information today. I can shrug this off though. What matters to me though is what they do to developers.

    Nintendo made quiet public statements a month or so ago that there would be more shown of the Revolution behind closed doors than there were in their E3 conference; today, they brought a Revolution prototype on stage (and apparently a functional one, since they said it wasn't as small as the final version would be) and said that they'd be showing it off in meetings later that week. I assume this means they're going to be revealing the information to developers this week that they didn't to consumers today.

    And, well, they'd better. Work on PS3 games is clearly already starting or seriously underway. Nintendo can continue to cocktease consumers for another six months without it being a serious problem for them, but if they don't sell third party developers on this quickly they're going to outright miss the chance to get third parties signed on at all.

    The thing that really concerns me is, Nintendo seems to be convinced they have solutions for low-budget high-concept dev houses; well, that won't really help much if nobody but the five or six massive developers Nintendo talks to behind closed doors this week are considered NDA-trustworthy enough to get dev kits, and by the time the low-budget high-concept game designers actually find out what the Revolution is they're already locked into making PS3 games.

    Well, at least the new DS lineup is absolutely fantastic.
    • The Nintendo Revolution gets unveiled; it goes to the games.slashdot section page.

      Hmm.

      Anyhow, Nintendo pretty much let down anyone who was hoping for real information today.

      And you wonder why it's not on the front page? I've been fairly hyped to see whatever Nintendo was doing after the PS3 excitement, but... it's all vapor so far. And only vague promises at that. Granted, "Nintendo handwaves vaguely" wouldn't be considerably worse than some slashdot stories, but really... Nintendo hasn

      • Re:Interesting (Score:4, Insightful)

        by barawn ( 25691 ) on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @05:11PM (#12560029) Homepage
        And you wonder why it's not on the front page? I've been fairly hyped to see whatever Nintendo was doing after the PS3 excitement, but... it's all vapor so far.

        Vapor? Pictures of the Xbox 360 leaked hit the front page of Slashdot. Pictures of the Revolution, and it's on games/. only.

        Pictures aren't vapor.
    • Re:Interesting (Score:3, Insightful)

      by AvitarX ( 172628 )
      This was not a revealing.

      We still no much less about the Revoluton then we do the Xbox360 or the PS3.

      Nintendo has at least 2 press releases left that will be far more worthy (specifically exact specs and the "revolution").

      I would expect both those to be front page (expacialy the latter) but people not into games should not have to see every tricklle of news they release.

      They may be able to get away with weaker specs if they let developers release standart def games (as long as they don't let that get us
      • Re:Interesting (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Bagels ( 676159 )
        Fairly trustworthy specs have already been leaked by the company providing the RAM (MoSys) for the Revolution. They've stated that the system will have a custom 2.5GHz, four-core G5 processor (pretty comparable to the 360's 3.2GHz three-core G5 processor), 512MB of their RAM (again, like the 360), and a next-gen ATI gfx processor w/16MB of extra RAM.
        • Can you confirm that or do you have a cite? As far as I know the RAM company only leaked a release date for the and the specs got added somewhere to the story as it was forwarded around the blog circuit. Those specs look reasonable but I don't think they've been commented on by any trustworthy source. I'd be curious to see if they had.
  • Just a thought.... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by -kertrats- ( 718219 ) on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @03:01PM (#12558473) Journal
    That thing looks an awful lot like a disk drive for a desktop PC (and about the same size, too). What are the odds Nintendo allows you to use it in a computer? That would be very interesting indeed.
    • It seems logical as Iwata said that the unique thing about the revolution will that the way it connects the things such as controllers, internet, etc will be fundamentally different.

      Also he stated that it is playable on a pc monitor
  • by duerra ( 684053 ) on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @03:12PM (#12558593) Homepage
    Imagine, if you will, the ability for all those old multiplayer Nintendo games to be playable online. If Nintendo could make it so that any of those old multiplayer Nintendo games could be played against another person online instead of having him or her right next to you..... that would be the ultimate killer scenario. Is it possible? I don't know. A guy should be allowed to speculate, though.

    Everyone would own one. Forget about market share. It will be 50% XBox 360 and 50% PS3... with 100% having a Revolution.

    Heck, it may be anyway..... *drool*.
    • If Nintendo could make it so that any of those old multiplayer Nintendo games could be played against another person online instead of having him or her right next to you..... that would be the ultimate killer scenario. Is it possible? I don't know. A guy should be allowed to speculate, though.

      You've been able to do this with emulators like ZSNES and Snes9x for years now, so i'd say it's at least possible, if they wanted to do it.
  • by LordZardoz ( 155141 ) on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @03:40PM (#12558934)
    The general consensus among my friends is that while making the old library of games available for the new platform is a hugely good thing, they are concerned about the apparant hardware spec.

    After Sony and Microsoft making a huge deal of the processing power of their hardware, the rumors that Revolution will only be 2 - 3 times more powerful then the Gamecube (as opposed to 15 or so times more powerful for PS3 vs PS2)is somewhat troubling.

    If any company can make games on weaker hardware that are better then offerings of competitors on faster hardware, it is Nintendo. But for 3rd party developers that lack Nintendo's pedigree, there may be some balking at putting new games on what appears to be an inferior platform.

    The best chance for Revolution to succeed over PS3 or XBox 360 is for development on Revolution to be absurdly easy and cost effective. They may still lose out on having companies like EA target their platform, but can mitigate that by attracting publishers who are starting up and cannot afford to develop for the other platforms.

    If Nintendo can attract enough developers to their platform, and have a heavy stream of new games coming out for their platform, they will do amazingly well.

    Lots of new games + Abusrd amunts of old cheap games + low price of the console will allow Nintendo to succeed.

    Of course, this is all speculation on my part. Until we know exactly what the hardware specs for Revolution are, being worried about the console being underpowerered are premature.

    END COMMUNICATION
    • There's another thing to take into consideration.

      Remember before this generation came out. Sony and microsoft were blatantly advertising how many polygons their consoles could put out. Sony said what, like 70 million+ or somewhere in there?

      Nintendo's response was that we can do 12 million, in a real gameplay situation.

      Ironically, for many games, those 12 million sure do look better then those theoretical 70 million.

      Nintendo also severely underestimated the usuable distance for the Wavebird if you'll r
    • I am a little concerned about this myself. However, I think the continued sales of the PS2 after the launch of GC and XBox shows that the better library will win out as long as the hardware is comparable.

      Revolution will be 2 to 3 times as powerful as GC. PS3 is 12 - 15 times as powerful as PS2. However, if I recall, in shear processing power, the GC was already 2-3 times as powerful as the PS2.

      If all this is true, and my mathis correct, then the PS3 would be about 2-3 times as powerful as the Revolutio
    • by Rallion ( 711805 ) on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @04:35PM (#12559628) Journal
      One thing I've noticed about Nintendo is that they tend to be extremely conservative in their promises of quality. They do NOT want to say that a feature will be in, then not have it in, and they do NOT want people to think their stuff is better than it actually is. (They want people to FEEL like its better, sure.)

      On the other hand, Sony (and Microsoft, to a lesser degree) do the exact opposite. They trump up their numbers as much as they possibly can without outright lying -- except for when they outright lie.

      I think it's safe to say that the PS3 will have more power than its competitors, surely. There's no doubt of that. But I agree with you in that it's too early to say how big the difference will be.
      • Exactly. Many people were fooled by the early PS2/xbox hype and blather into thinking they would be far more powerful than the GC ... but reality turned out to be quite different.

        Sony is particularly guilty of this of course, and seems to be repeating themselves with all the cell hype. Don't fool yourself -- Sony is no magician, and they aren't going to beat the technology curve by any significant margin. They may be able to get great numbers in very narrow artificial benchmarks, but it's much, much har
    • by buffer-overflowed ( 588867 ) on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @05:20PM (#12560119) Journal
      Bah, don't worry. Nintendo knows what they're doing, you need look no further than the gamecube. Far more powerful than the PS2 for all practical purposes on theoretically weaker hardware. A really well done GCN game(the new zelda, RE4) looks as good(or better in some ways) as a really well done XBox game, and the hardware/development hump difference is huge. Plus they managed to all but remove load times w/o an HDD. The N64 was more powerful than the PS1(comparable to the rendering power of an SGI workstation of the time), just limited by storage capacity. The SNES was as strong as the genesis in it's own ways. The NES however, was weak compared to the SMS, but now we're 20 years back.

      Going by specs is always a bad idea. Remember all the PS2 hype? Yea. Just ignore it and wait to see actual moving footage of comparitive gen games before you go off and pan one as weak and praise another as strong.

      Besides, according to many rumors, it's a 2.5GHz 4 core PPC(vs. the Xboxes 3GHz 3 core PPC) with comparitive graphics processors and RAM to the XBox 360. Certainly no slouch.

      If anything I'd call the PS3 the weakest of the 3. It fits the Sony pattern, and Sony is the company with the LEAST software development experience. Remember that both Nintendo AND MS have been doing development for 3 decades. Sony's been doing it for just over 1.
      • Yeah, don't worry. As long as you are a Nintendo Fanboy, you can convince yourself that the graphics look better on inferior hardware. I know that is a harsh statement, but I am tired of emotional facination with -insert console here- and then reading all these posts that are so biased.

        While I agree that specs don't tell the whole pictures, they can hint at what the system is capable of. If there was a game released on both the Xbox and the GC, I would get it on the Xbox because it is a more capable dev
    • After Sony and Microsoft making a huge deal of the processing power of their hardware, the rumors that Revolution will only be 2 - 3 times more powerful then the Gamecube (as opposed to 15 or so times more powerful for PS3 vs PS2)is somewhat troubling.

      That's because Sony and Microsoft both live in la-la land when it comes to actually marketing for games. The only reason they survive is because A) Sony is still riding the crest of the original PlayStation, and B) Microsoft has enough money to entice 3rd pa
  • Freedom of Design (Score:2, Interesting)

    by rAiNsT0rm ( 877553 )

    Freedom of design: A dynamic development architecture equally accommodates both big-budget, high-profile game "masterpieces" as well as indie games conceived by individual developers equipped with only a big idea.

    This could be the big feature even though it most likely won't see much coverage in mainstream media. Another quote from Nintendo they state game development is approaching 8 figures, and that developers are beginning to grow tired of this. Especially with the slashdot crowd you'd think this w

  • by lpangelrob2 ( 721920 ) on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @04:28PM (#12559537) Journal
    "The console also will have downloadable access to 20 years of fan-favorite titles originally released for Nintendo® 64, the Super Nintendo Entertainment System® (SNES) and even the Nintendo Entertainment System® (NES)."

    Hmm. Let me download Snake, Rattle n' Roll [consoleclassix.com] and The Guardian Legend [classicgaming.com] for $.99 (or whatever's fair... that means LESS than $19.99) and you've got yourself a loyal customer again.

    Nintendo... the next iTunes Music Store-like experience?

  • by aliens ( 90441 ) on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @04:32PM (#12559596) Homepage Journal
    I think we're all dreaming that the price of classics will be less than $20/each. They didn't exactly give away the remakes they released for the GBA, granted they needed a cart so that increases the cost.

    But $5/game sounds way too cheap in an office room I think.
    • I would fully expect $5-$10 to be much more profitable prices than $20. Once you get below $10, I'd think lots of people will see the price as negligible, and sales will increase massively.
    • Surely the decision makers at Nintendo have considered sales figures for the NES->GBA ports. I'm sure they're pretty crappy. To me, $5 per game seems like the upper limit of what's resonable for an NES game. I expect NES games to be priced around $1-2, SNES games around $5, and N64 games around $10.

      Keep in mind that the profit margin for these titles will be very high. There is no physical media or packaging, and distribution costs them pennies per copy. The only other costs are development for the emul
  • Well it won't be televised so we'll never see it anyway.
  • http://rorexrobots.com/nin/Nintendo-E3.asf.torrent [rorexrobots.com]
    nice fast 10mbit seed with nobody currently on it...get it while it's hot!
  • by ShawnDoc ( 572959 ) on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @07:21PM (#12561371) Homepage
    The revolution is that Nintendo will have the only affordable next generation system on the market next Christmas. The Revolution was clearly designed to be as affordable to produce as possible. I would not be surprised to see the 360 or PS3 going for $399 or more when they launch.

    Just look at the features of the PS3, 3 x Gigabit ports, WiFi, BlueTooth, CF, not to mention the RAM and GPU. There's no way it will be affordable.

    • Sure it will!

      Don't you know Sony is trying to beat MS at EVERYTHING this next generation? Including who can take the largest monetary hit with every console sold?

      MS did good at that with the X-box, but considering the Geforce 6800 Ultra with 512 MB of ram just was announced at $1000, I think Sony will win the battle of the biggest loss hands down.
  • It seems like the major announcements Nintendo has made in the last few days have taken major cues from Apple. Nintendo has just opened a store in New York, released a new GBA the press release [yahoo.com] says will "[position] the image-conscious player as someone on the cutting edge of cool." Now, they've also set up game downloads for their back catalog, like iTMS.

    Expect Nintendo to try and portray themselves as above the Sony vs. Microsoft battle. It looks like Nintendo think they are right now like Apple right before OS X and the iPod made them a major player again. Hopefully this will translate into them bringing major and useful innovations to the market.

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