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GameCube (Games)

More Twilight Princess Details Emerge 109

Posted by Zonk from the ninja-princess dept.
Press the Buttons has a link to an interview with Nintendo veterans Miyamoto and Aonuma. In it they reveal the identity of the cloaked woman in the trailer and more information about where in the Zelda timeline the new game falls. Press the Buttons has commentary as well: "From time to time I still see posts on online message boards claiming that Twilight Princess is the Zelda game 'we should have gotten instead of Wind Waker', a train of thought that extends from the fact that some people are still against Wind Waker's highly animated visual style despite having never played the game."
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More Twilight Princess Details Emerge More

More Twilight Princess Details Emerge

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  • Let me throw my sword with power when I have full hearts and the master sword. I've missed that.

    The revival of the dark world from Link to the Past is a nice touch. I watched the trailer a little while back and was kind of surprised they did that, until I noted the dark motes/style. So, he's a wolf now, not a bunny.
    • Yes, give us our Swords of Power!
      • Link, he come to town
        Come to save the princess zelda
        Ganon took her away
        Now the children don't play
        But they will when link saves the day
        Hallelujah!

        Now link, fill up your hearts
        So you can shoot your sword with power
        And when you're feeling all down
        The fairy will come around
        So you'll be brave, and not a sissy coward

        Now link has saved the day
        Put ganon in his grave
        So now zelda is free
        And now our hero shall be
        Link! I think your name shall go down into history

        • That isnt System of a Down! How do so many people get this wrong?



          The song was made by The Rabbit Joint. You can download a remix of it from here [slashdot.org].

    • I'm actually pretty disappointed they're doing the light world/dark world stuff again..... almost every single Zelda game has had this senario (it was future and past in Ocarina) and it's getting very old... I'd like to see a dialogue heavy Zelda with a much more epic story line...
      • I'd like to see a dialogue heavy Zelda with a much more epic story line...

        Sorry, but it doesn't actually seem like you're looking for a new Zelda title, but a new title with Zelda characters. A dialogue heavy Zelda has never really existed, and could be the reason why the series has done well.

        If it ain't broke, don't fix it?
      • Yea, it's been done 3 times in the zelda series. Link to the Past, Ocarina, and most recently the Minish Cap. The rest haven't(7 games off the top of my head[original, zelda 2, majora's mask, wind waker, link's awakening, oracle of ages, oracle of seasons]).

        Twilight Princess will be the 4th Zelda to have overlapping worlds(past/future, light/dark, normal/twilight, big/small), and the 3rd console release to have different ability sets(young/old link, the masks, and now wolf/normal link).

        It looks pretty
        • Four swords had a dark world, too.

          In response to the other comment, I really hope they *don't* ever make a more dialogue-heavy version. One reason I like Zelda more than more traditional RPG type games is that the dialogue in a lot of them gets pretty tedious after a while. "Hm, have I talked to every single person in this town yet? No? I've missed the one person who'll say exactly what I need to hear to reach my next goal? *sigh*"

          Of course, maybe that's just an implementation problem, not necessarily

          • Ehh... four swords is kind of a bastard child in the franchise. It's basically link to the past with up to 4 players. So I didn't include it.

            Well, they could go with a half-life style dialog system. Where the main character NEVER talks, but everyone else does.

            I don't think Zelda really needs dialog though.
            • Well, they could go with a half-life style dialog system. Where the main character NEVER talks, but everyone else does.

              Actually thats how it currently works. In all the Zelda games that have dialog (and all the Mario games too at that) the main character never talks (except to make grunting noises in Zelda, or to say "Itsa meee... Marrrrrio" in Mario)
          • "Hm, have I talked to every single person in this town yet? No? I've missed the one person who'll say exactly what I need to hear to reach my next goal? *sigh*"

            Like in Minish cap where you had to talk to that guard that blocked your path to the west? I had never talked to him before, so I didn't know that he insisted I learn some move that I had already learned. And even when I had learned the move, he still blocked the way until I talked to him the first time.
        • The Oracle games have overlapping words - they are described in the titles of the games. Since Seasons has 4 parallel worlds (guess what they are), I'd say it takes the cake.
        • Ages had past/future. Seasons had the four seasons ala light/dark world
      • ### I'd like to see a dialogue heavy Zelda with a much more epic story line.

        Try 'Links Awakening', not really more dialog heavy then the rest, but by far the best story of any Zelda game. Anyway, what I would much prefer over yet another Zelda or Mario or Metroid would be something completly *new* from Nintendo. Running around with always the same weapons, solving always the same puzzle starts to get extremly boring after a while. After now almost 20 years its really time that they do a bit more fresh stuf
      • So... You're saying you want Final Fantasy, then? Because that does exist, y'know.

        Nintendo wisely chose to go light on the dialogue with Zelda, which was smart IMO. Dialogue and story heavy RPGs are naturally linear and kind of cold. It's third person. I feel like I'm reading a book or watching a movie with a fixed story, where I get to help a bit in the fights between cutscenes. Zelda's much more immersive-- Link doesn't speak, so it's easier to "become him" rather than watch him. And since you hav
    • In the four swords you can do this when you collect enough gems.

  • Just needed to say this... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ZephyrXero ( 750822 ) <zephyrxero AT yahoo DOT com> on Wednesday June 01, 2005 @01:19PM (#12696596) Homepage Journal
    People who didn't play Wind Waker because they didn't like the "kiddy" artwork are not real gamers...plain and simple.
    • Well, it's kind of hard to play when you're vomiting all over your controller. I tried to play, I really did. The gameplay felt fun. The visuals though, well, I had to wash my clothes after attempting to play for a few minutes.
    • Gamer is a loaded term anyway. And people are entitled to their opinions, regardless of how misguided or influenced by popularity they may be.

      That said, I have to agree that dismissing (or for that matter, lauding) a game entirely due to the graphical style misses the point. You're playing a game, not watching a movie. And Ocarina of Time wasn't that dark anyway, most people didn't like the Wind Waker because Link was a kid. The art style just lent itself to attack. I never heard anybody talk about vo
      • "And people are entitled to their opinions, regardless of how misguided or influenced by popularity they may be."

        I'd have to disagree with ya there... If someone is just gonna go with what everyone tells them, then they do not deserve an opinion since they don't actually have one of their own in the first place... Oh if only this could be applied to voting in the United States...
    • I suggest people that consider Wind Waker to be a "kiddie" game to go out and rent Mickey Mouse's Magical Mirror. You'll quickly see the difference between a game made for children and a game that is made for all to enjoy.

      Wind Waker is a solid game. Great story, great gameplay and a seriously cool plot twist in the middle. I know at least 8 adults that have played this game. Each of them loved it. Was even too challenging for a few of them.

      I also agree with frikazoyd that Gamer is a loaded term. [slashdot.org]
      • You made me think of Mickey Mouse: Castle Of Illusion for the Genesis. Did you ever play that game? I actually thought it was really good at the time. The way it graphics looked at the time seemed great to me. It was fun to play (I haven't actually played it in the last 5-10 years at least)
      • What plot twist are you referring to? I've played the game all the way through and thought the story was pretty straight forward.
        • I dunno, the ending was kind of a jaw dropper. Not jsut the stabbing in the head bit. King of Hyrule is a total bad ass that Gannon(no matter what you call him) should not have messed with, even if he is slow to anger.
    • Indeed, there's simply no excuse. I'd like to point out exactly how reminiscent of Zelda 1 [rpgamer.com]---the very first and original Zelda, for those who can't count, or very likely were not born yet---Wind Waker's graphics [rpgamer.com] are. Or everyone's favorite, Link to the Past [rpgamer.com].

      If anything, Wind Waker hit it right on the head. The new "photorealistic" Zelda doesn't really appeal to me. Yes, it's shiny. So what?

      • I'm glad someone else realizes this. Windwaker is closer to The Legend of Zelda in style than Ocarina or the new game. In fact, Link was supposed to be a kid in the first game too.
      • I've never actually met anyone who hasn't like wind waker, but you hear about it a lot online. Personally I loved windwaker! I don't think I've ever played a game where the world was so large. I actually pointed my ship in one direction and sailed with the wind to the opposite corner of the "world" and it took jsut shy of 30 minutes to sail (IIRC). I was walking around picking stuff up and cleaning while this was going on I just wanted to see how long it took. :-) The Zelda does appeal to me though, but
    • You are an elitist ass.

      The fact that your opinions are so self-righteous does not make them correct. It is completely feasible that the tone and flavor of the cell shaded graphics in Wind Waker did not really tickle some gamers fancy. Myself, I enjoyed the game and the graphics, but I was not as blown away with the title as I have been with other Zelda titles that might have a more dark tone, in both story and art direction.

      Wind Waker tried something new with the Zelda franchise, and the fact that not
      • People have different criteria for what they consider a good game, and simply because their set does not correspond with yours does not make them wrong.

        I think you missed the parent's point though. He's saying that dismissing a game based on its graphics without playing it first is not a real gamer. Everyone's entitled to their opinions on the graphics, but I have to agree that it's a little close-minded not to even try it based on the graphics.

        Now, as for the definition of what a 'real gamer' is... I

      • You are an elitist ass.

        Is he, or is he on to something here?

        The fact that your opinions are so self-righteous does not make them correct.

        Self-righteous opinions are not automatically correct, true.

        It is completely feasible that the tone and flavor of the cell shaded graphics in Wind Waker did not really tickle some gamers fancy.

        This is true. However, to simply refuse to play a game based on its graphical style is akin to judging a book by its cover, is it not? Most of the arguments you

    • I can't wait until the next, next Zelda comes out for the Revolution. Maybe they will have an even more adult Link, like 80 something. Of course he'd still be awesome and kicking butt (ala Frank Miller's Dark Knight Returns).

      They wouldn't have to give him walkers for weapons or Viagra for health potions though. They'd just make him older and wiser, and instead of having to prove himself to older people, he'd just have to kick the snot out of young wippersnappers that thought he was over the hill. Over the
    • Maybe the "real gamers" were just pissed that if you remove the boat trip, the game last about 45 minutes. There is not more than 45 minutes of action in that game. You don't even have to search as there are hints everywhere about your next step, you just travel to and fro endlesly. Wind Waker is not a game, its a demo of what a game should have been. And yes I finished the game. And every other Zelda. Windwaker felt like an intro game to the Zelda world. It was very dissapointing for "real gamers" as you
    • Agreed, definitely. Wind Waker is a great game, and it's a lot darker than people seem to think. Everyone I know that's actually played it agrees with me. It's definitely darker than Majora's Mask. Every time someone has told me it's cartoony and kiddy, it turned out that they had either never played it, or only played a demo for 5 minutes. It's not the best game in the series...I think Ocarina of Time is better...but that has nothing to do with "kiddy" graphics, it's because Ocarina of time has a bett

  • Wind Waker (Score:4, Insightful)

    by th3space ( 531154 ) <brad@@@bradfucious...com> on Wednesday June 01, 2005 @01:19PM (#12696606) Homepage
    *Off topic...kind of*

    I never really liked the Zelda games, they held absolutely no appeal for me. Sometime last year, on a whim, I borrowed The Wind Waker from a friend, and have loved every minute of it...it's got quirk, it's got character, and it plays very smoothly...something my previous dungeon-crawler addiction never really did - Dark Cloud 1&2.

    If this is the game we were supposed to have gotten instead of the Wind Waker, what will it take to get something along the accidental lines?

  • First pro-Wind waker post (Score:5, Interesting)

    by identity0 ( 77976 ) on Wednesday June 01, 2005 @01:24PM (#12696638) Journal
    Aside from playing a bit of the original NES Zelda, Wind Waker was my first time at a Zelda game, and I must say that I actually prefer the cell-shaded Link to the other incarnations. The previous Zeldas had kind of a anime feel to them, while the WW Zelda was more like an American cartoon. I think it's pretty cute, and while others may find it too 'kiddie', the graphics have a lighthearted feel that I like.

    That said, there was way too much sailing about in WW. I have friends that liked the game, but refuse to play it again because of the sailing. It looks like the next Zelda won't have that, so maybe it'll be better.

    Another pet peeve - I wish videogames would let you play back cutscenes you've already seen. It's not like I'm going to play it all in one sitting, so I'd like to be able to review the plot and stuff.

    Random stuff, I know. But I'm hoping the next Zelda will be even better than the last one.
    • You missed out big time by not playing Ocarina of Time. If you ever get the chance you should play it; it's simply amazing.

      It's not like I'm going to play it all in one sitting

      And you call yourself a gamer??? :P

      Wind Waker was well worth the week of work and school that I missed :)

      Anyways, this next Zelda is sure to kick ass. I can't wait! (Although I'd rather wait than play a bug-ridden, half-finished game -- thankfully the Zelda team understands that).
    • "Another pet peeve - I wish videogames would let you play back cutscenes you've already seen. It's not like I'm going to play it all in one sitting, so I'd like to be able to review the plot and stuff."

      Some do. Try Eternal Darkness. You can play through 3 times (to get the final ending cutscene) and each run through has a set of cutscenes (the ones that are comon to each dont get duplicated). In the games menu you can watch any cutscene you have seen in the game.

  • Differences... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by b0r0din ( 304712 ) on Wednesday June 01, 2005 @01:25PM (#12696644)
    I had the same doubts about WindWaker being cartoony and childish, but after playing it I was satisfied that it belongs in the general pantheon of Zelda games. It clearly grows darker as you progress, and is very hard to put down.

    Viewing the 'screenshots' caused my BS detector to go off, of course, because these are very obviously prerendered elements. They shouldn't be allowed to call them screenshots. But those things aside, it'll be nice to see a more adult Zelda, and hopefully a much darker one.
    • Windwaker was easily my favorite Zelda game. It was very visually stunning. It's actually the single reason I went out and bought a GameCube. (I've since bought a few other games like Tales of Symphonia, Madden, etc.) Infact, every Zelda game since A Link to the Past has been the single reason I bought the console it was on.

      I've found that the majority of people who thought Wind Waker was too cartoony weren't really true fans. They may have played Ocarina of Time, but not the others. On more than one occas
    • I haven't watched any vids in the link(were there any?), but are you sure you mean pre-rendered? Nintendo has been pretty adamant about NOT using pre-rendered scenes in any of their games. Instead, they DO use cut-scenes that are generated by the in-game engine in real time.
    • The other two may be prerendered, but this one [nintendo.com] isn't. In the E3 trailer, it's really kind of obvious that there's a human being controlling Link during those scenes, and quite a bit of non-cutscene action takes place during them. That shot is actually a direct rip from the E3 trailer.

    • Re:Differences... (Score:2, Informative)

      by cycledance ( 812080 )
      they are not prerendered.
    • Good 'ol FUD. "Pre-rendered" seems to be the FUD buzzword of the moment. Those screenshots aren't pre-rendered. How do i know? Because they wouldn't bother using low-polygon models and low-res textures if they were trying to impress people in a pre-rendered cutscene. All 3 of those images are not pre-rendered.

  • I liked the cell-shaded! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by defkkon ( 712076 ) on Wednesday June 01, 2005 @01:31PM (#12696716)
    "...some people are still against Wind Waker's highly animated visual style despite having never played the game."

    If you own a Gamecube and haven't played this game - please, try it. Even if you don't like the look of the cell-shaded graphics, don't let it discourage you.

    After Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask, I was shocked when they revealed the stylistic route they went with Windwaker.

    However, right from the opening screen all the way to the final battle with Ganon, I loved the graphics. They were able to accomplish environments and effects that are very much unique to the cell-shaded universe.

    For instance, there was a dungeon full of lava. I'm sure this would look awesome if they had done the realistic graphcs. However, seeing cell-shaded flames through a heat-induced haze was gorgeous. If you were to present the same environment using "realistic graphics", I'd probably prefer the cell-shaded.

    We've all seen lava, water, mountains, and grass plains in real life (or on TV, or movies). But to see these same environments interpreted as cell-shaded is definitely unique, and dare I say, innovative.

    • One thing that really pissed me off on the European release-date was when I was standing in line, noticing that the big N had boldly printed "10/10" on the actual box.
      Not a sticker. They (well, Nintendo Magazine) had rated it, and put the actual rating on the box.
      I was fuming.
      I was SO pissed off.

      An hour later, I was at a friend's place with the cube plugged in, watching the intro sequence.
      Yet an hour later, the smile on my lips hadn't even started fading.

      Bottom line?
      I'm eagerly awaiting the next game wher
    • Seriously. You're playing a fantasy game. When you get into the game, you're trying to transplant yourself into a world that cannot really exist. So why should anyone be trying to make it look exactly like the real world?

      If I want to feel like I'm walking through a forest, then I'll go outside and find a forest. Forests are awesome and beautiful, but they're not something that I need to play a game to experience. Now, a game might be enhanced by taking place in an extraordinarily spooky forest, or one with
    • For instance, there was a dungeon full of lava. I'm sure this would look awesome if they had done the realistic graphcs. However, seeing cell-shaded flames through a heat-induced haze was gorgeous. If you were to present the same environment using "realistic graphics", I'd probably prefer the cell-shaded.

      Hell, yeah. That level was beautiful... those twisted columns of fire. The open sea was amazingly cool, as well.

      I only had two real problems with the game: (a) too short! I was expecting another round

  • I was rather scared at the idea of Link being a wolf, at first. People turning into animals is rather.... cliche and dull. And, I really don't want to spend TOO much time as a wolf. I enjoy playing as Link... not a wolf. Mainly, though, I was concerned he was a werewolf, because that was the way the trailer seemed to show it.

    However, as that doesn't appear to be the case, I'm slightly relieved.
    • I was rather scared at the idea of Link being a wolf, at first.

      My knee-jerk reaction was the exact same.

      Then I thought back to Marjora's mask where you got to play different creatures - a Goron, a Deku-Scrub, a Zora, etc. The way Nintendo designed the gameplay mechanics and puzzles, it almost felt like you were playing a different game with each character. Each creature had their own strengths, weaknesses, and special abilities, which really opened up the game.

      With Nintendo's track record of gamep

  • As mentioned, all the sailing in WW is what put me off. In fact, WW was the first Zelda game I did not complete. Each island seemed like a separate level, and made the whole game seem linear. At least in the other games you knew over the mountain there was another section of the world, or like in Ocerana, you could actually see features in the distance of other areas, giving the world a connected feal.
    • I loved the sailing myself. I really enjoyed the sense of freedom it gave you. Some gaps were a little long, but it was much more fun to me than running place to place in Ocarina of Time.

      Oddly enough, The Wind Waker was the first Zelda game I finished. I rarely finish games, so that is a testament to how much I liked the Wind Waker and not a condemnation of the rest of the series. It just takes a special game to hold my attention till the end.
    • Yeah, IMO, they should have made the ocean about half the physical size that it was. Then you'd see more islands in the distance and it wouldn't take so long to go from point to point.

      Even after you get the warp spell (which is late in the game IIRC), the travelling times are just too long.
    • As mentioned, all the sailing in WW is what put me off.

      Would you have prefered a "Loading..." screen? The sailing in WW was a trick to hide level loading.

      I didn't mind the sailing.. it was peaceful. And it was much more interesting than "Please Wait...".
      • The level loading doesn't take as long as it takes to sail between islands. Loading a savegame takes mere seconds.
      • I would prefer something like all the others Zelda games. No loading screen, and can see all other adjacent lands, even if it is just a billboard sprite of a smoaking mountain in the distance, or a line of trees on the other side of the fence.

  • Original Response Was Disappointment *Spoilers* (Score:3, Informative)

    by robbway ( 200983 ) on Wednesday June 01, 2005 @02:29PM (#12697386) Journal
    Most people prejudged Wind Waker because they were teased with the more realistic graphics, and then discovered an entirely new game was coming. The simplistic-looking Cel-shaded game disappointed us.

    I've played it all the way thru. The gameplay really deserves kudos for trying something different with the seafaring Link; however, the mechanic became incredibly boring as the game wore on. As for cartoony, it achieved a coherent style.

    Here come the Spoilers for those who plan to play Windwaker

    I disliked the fact that Link and Zelda were completely different and just looked like the original Link and Zelda. Its actually a "side story" variant. The final battle with Gannon was very easy compared to all the other Zelda games. I understand this one is a direct sequel with the real Link in it. I guess in the far future, their race's skin becomes smooth and posterized.
    • Chronologically, there's now five or six different people that are the "real Link", depending on the version of the timeline you look at. If you RTFA, the Link in Twilight Princess is a new one as well, even though it's set just a few decades after Ocarina of Time.
    • I disliked the fact that Link and Zelda were completely different and just looked like the original Link and Zelda. Its actually a "side story" variant. The final battle with Gannon was very easy compared to all the other Zelda games. I understand this one is a direct sequel with the real Link in it. I guess in the far future, their race's skin becomes smooth and posterized.

      Uh, according to the article, this Link is, like most Links, a new one. Link and Zelda aren't meant to be chracters, exactly, but the
    • Aw, c'mon, I had more fun with the Ganondorf battle in Wind Waker than the boring/easy Ganon battle in Ocarina. Once you learned that you had to go between his legs, that it was it, he was a pushover after that. And the final blow to Ganondorf in WW... I'll never get tired of that :D
  • It wasn't the graphics. It wasn't the sailing. Those were both fun in their own way.

    It was the fact that the game had 5 dungeons instead of 8 or 9.

    It's been a while since I've played, but I remember there being 3 dungeons, and then 2 more. Pretty much every other game before it had 8 dungeons, followed by a boss. They were split 3/5 perhaps, but they were there. I finished WW and wondered where the other half of the game was.
    • You're missing 2 from your count...

      Forsaken Fortress
      Dragon Roost
      Forbidden Woods
      Tower of the Gods
      Earth Temple
      Wind Temple
      Ganon's Tower

      That looks like 7 dungeons to me.
    • I see where your coming from, but in that department I reserve my complaints for Majora's Mask. What it have, like 5?

      Yeah, there were the spider houses, but who cares about those. All of the pseudo-dungeons didn't feel like dungeons. That game was more sidequests than dungeons.
    • IMO it was a small price to pay. The dungeons had some huge rooms, which made it feel much more open. Floating through a dungeon with the Deku Leaf was fun to me.

      Plus there were tons of islands and side quests, though most of them didn't give any worthwhile rewards (the secret heart containers are surely not needed to beat the game.)

    • I think you have a point, I remember reading in a magazine that some dungeons had been removed. I can't remember the exact details but I think they were dropped because of time constraints.

      Anyway the magazine was NGC, sold in the U.K., does anybody else remember something along these lines?

    • Late reply that no one will ever see, but this should've been modded up. I agree completely, and it's a shame this complaint was drowned out by the cel-shading whiners.

      Also, you're underestimating A Link to the Past. It had 10 bona fide dungeons (split 3/7) PLUS Hyrule Castle, PLUS Ganon's Tower, PLUS all those awesome caves/Lost Woods/Death Mountain/etc/etc. THAT'S the kind of Zelda I want back.


  • Wind Waker was fucken sweet, and a large part of that was its beautiful graphics. My heart sank when I learned the new Zelda wouldn't be in a similar style.
  • Just because so many slashdotters are lined up one one side of the fence, let me say:

    I tried Windwaker. I played it all the way through. I never liked the stylized graphics. I'm very relieved they're reverting to a more traditional style.

    • I agree (Score:3, Interesting)

      by j1m+5n0w ( 749199 )

      I didn't mind the graphics of the world (which looked very good in most places), but I didn't care for some of the character designs.

      I didn't identify well with the main character. He was too young, he didn't handle a sword well, and his head was too spherical. I just couldn't picture him as a hero. I'm accustomed to imagining Link as early-teenage, not as a third grader.

      The game world was too sparse. Even with warping, it took too long to get anywhere. The levels were good but there weren't very

  • Can we have discussion of Twilight Princess without going over Wind Waker and Cel Shading vs Realistic? Wind Waker was different, and despite protests that's what we got. Twilight Princess is realistic, and despite anything we say and do that is what we will get. We simply have to live with it at this point and turn our attention to far more important things like gameplay.

    That said...

    The idea of revamping old items really appeals to me. Like others, I really long for the age old Sword Zap. The spinning me
  • [S]ome people are still against Wind Waker's highly animated visual style despite having never played the game.

    What does not having played the game have to do with it? Will playing the game somehow make the graphics different? I've never played the game, and in fact, it could have the best gameplay of all of the Zelda games (though I hear that it doesn't). But even that would only cause me to tolerate (or at least to attempt to tolerate) the glaringly ugly cel-shading in Wind Waker, not to actually lik
  • I liked a lot of the other zelda games, but I haven't been able to play windwaker, It's not that the cell shading bugs me because it looks to cartoony, but for some reason the graphcis in windwaker make me horribly motion sick/give me headaches. This is the only game cell shaded or not that does this. Am I alone?

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