How Games And Religion Could Mix 180
An anonymous reader writes "The Passion of the Christ brought in $370 million at the box office. The Left Behind book series have sold over 63 million copies. And Christian Rock is growing more and more popular. But the video game industry has so far ignored the topic of religion. CNN/Money's Game Over column talked with game developers (including id Software CEO Todd Hollenshead and Diablo co-creator Bill Roper) about the reasons behind this - and asked them what sort of game they would make if they were creating one with a religious theme. The answers ranged from a Moses RPG to a faith-based MMO."
Games and religion? (Score:4, Informative)
Already been done. [neoseeker.com]
Re:Games and religion? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Games and religion? (Score:2)
Re:Games and religion? (Score:5, Insightful)
What? Oh, my mistake. You're not talking about games with religion. You're talking about games that evangelize American Protestant Christianity. Well, no, I don't want to play a game that is trying to convert me or get me "fired up for Christ!" or any of that. It's nothing to do with the fact that it's religious. PETA likes to produce "activities" that evangelize their viewpoint, and I don't want that junk either.
I will go out on a limb and suggest that the only people who want a game that promotes a moral viewpoint are the ones who are already zealots.
Re:Games and religion? (Score:3, Funny)
His point of view was that he doesn't want someone preaching at him and trying to convert him, or at least doesn't count that as entertainment. (And I'll wholeheartedly aggree with him there: if I wanted to hear someone preaching, I'd go to church. When I start a game, I expect entertainment, not preaching.)
So your point is... what? That anyone who isn't an "anti-religious zealot" is just dyi
Re:Games and religion? (Score:3, Insightful)
Imagine my shock as a bright eyed and bushy tailed 8 year old:
friend: "Hey Aaron! You coming over and play Nintendo after school?"
me: "Yup, my mom said I could. Let's play!"
friend: "Check out this game! It's called Moses and the Trees of God and it's just like Super Mario Brothers, but it's not evil!"
me: "Mario Brothers is
Re:Games and religion? (Score:2, Insightful)
The problem with a Christian video game is that all the parts of the Bible that would make a good video game are the parts that Christians like to ignore.
They pick and choose passages of Jesus going around being a hippy, feel-gooder and ignore the incest, barbarism, anti-semiticism (in the New Testament), brutal phrophecy (unless they're holed in in a compound in Waco), etc. And that is the stuff th
Re:Games and religion? (Score:2)
No joke! I remember when I read the Book of Revelations- I was like 10 years old. That would make a badass game. Maybe you can play good or bad, but unlike in all the christian games I've seen that allow you to do that, evil needs to be able to win. But have some consequence.
You should talk to someone, get that cutscene put in some game. It'd be pret
Re:Games and religion? (Score:2)
He is probably just confused by all the FUD spread by anti-jesus groups...
Or Darklands (Score:2)
Was a bit _too_ much of a Bible lecture for my taste, but still, it made a nice change from the endless stream of me-too D&D clones. I mean, I'm not against RPG's derived (directly or indirectly) from Tolkien's work, but there are lo
Passion of the Christ, the videogame (Score:3, Funny)
Choose Your side!! Christian or Pagan, the Choice is Yours!!
-Eric
Re:Passion of the Christ, the videogame (Score:2)
Makes total sense. (Score:4, Funny)
Both games and religion are make-believe, it only makes sense that they merge. Jesus with a BFG-900 taking on a 50M tall Ganesh with glowing laser-tusks could be fun.
Games haven't ignored it (Score:2, Insightful)
Here's an example [somethingawful.com]. And another [somethingawful.com].
The thing with religion in the US is, people will attend services but are embarassed to say so.
Re:Games haven't ignored it (Score:2)
Do most of these teenagers listen to Christian rock because that's all they're allowed? Probably, but you could say the same thing about video games. No, the reason why Christian video games go nowhere is because they're horrible. Even Christian rock, Left Behind, and so forth are of much higher quality, especially when compared to the mainstream music and books that most people like now-a-days anyway.
Rob
Re:Games haven't ignored it (Score:4, Insightful)
I guess things have come a long way since Carmen and Chicks comics. Or maybe they seem higher quality to those with ears for the faith orientation; but to my impartial eyes and ears the lyrics and books seem trite, the emotions forced and self-serving, and the "faith" monetary based.
But don't just say "Christian" games go nowhere; I challenge you to find any real world religion well represented by fictional book, music, or video game. Where's my video game that simulates the Buddhist wheel of life and my character's struggle to wake up from it and break the chains that bind? Of course the realtime lifelong meditation would be tricky to gamify, but I'm sure it could be done.
The best religious videogame I can think of is Ultima IV and that wasn't even a real religion (nice concepts though).
Give me a Bioware RPG (with the good and evil possibilities that implies) set in Biblical times and I'd be all over that game. How cool would it be to lead the Hebrews out of Egypt...or betray them for a rich reward.
Re:Games haven't ignored it (Score:2)
Than Christian video games? I think you'd be hard-pressed to find someone who's tried all of those who wouldn't agree with me. As corny and weak as that music and those books are, they're still far better than crap like what Wisdom Tree puts out.
Where's my video game that simulates the Buddhist wheel of life and my character's struggle to wake up from it and break the chains that bind?
I think this [the-underdogs.org] might be somet
Re:Games haven't ignored it (Score:1)
Narnia to name the easy example. Books are easy. solid games are hard because of the interactivity ("Open World" systems like Morrowind, or Dues Ex well they almost demand that you rob people blind) I mean the easy thing I can think of would be SimMissionary but it would be hard to make that PC. (Also wooing people over to your side virtually seems like a waste of time outside of a training tool).
Re:Games haven't ignored it (Score:2)
Re:Games haven't ignored it (Score:2)
Fictional books: Chronicles of Narnia by C.S. Lewis. Do you consider Paradise Lost by Milton fiction? Then that too. What about Dante's Inferno? Pilgrim's Progress by Bunyan. And that's just off the top of my head--there are others.
Music: Have you ever heard of Bach, Mozart, maybe Handel? Or any of the classic hymn composers? I think simply listing Handel's massive Messiah should prove my poi
Re:Games haven't ignored it (Score:2)
Re:Games haven't ignored it (Score:2)
Most of the other answers to this challenge focused on Christianity, so here's a couple others:
The religion of Atheistic Existentialism I feel is well-re
Re:Games haven't ignored it (Score:2)
Books: I would characterize the Bible as a mix of fiction and history relating to religion.
Video game: I thought Darklands did a good job handling the religious aspects of medieval Germany
Try Valkyrie Profile (Score:2)
Now it's not really "well represented" in the sense of being a treatise on it or anything. It's a rather liberal interpretation of the sagas. (E.g., their Valkyrie fights and trains the Einherjar, rather than being just a taxi to Valhalla. E.g., their version of Ragnarok and es
Re:Games haven't ignored it (Score:2)
As for christian rock, as long as it isn't too preachy, it's not too bad.
As for why the stuff is selling so w
Re:Games haven't ignored it (Score:2)
Rob
Re:Games haven't ignored it (Score:1)
Re:Games haven't ignored it (Score:5, Insightful)
I listen to and write Christian-influenced music (not Christian rock, or Christian pop, mind you - I have a solo Industrial project, and I also write classical and neo-classical music - almost all of my music is instrumental). Granted, most Christian music in my favorite genres.. well.. suck. If you are into electronic/industrial, check out Juggernautz - they definately rival their secular peers.
I'd play a Christian game if it was good. Thats the point - Love it or hate it because its good or not, to you. People play those stupid deer avenger games, or the Extreme Paintbrawl games, and they are awful by most gamer's standards.
Look at classical music - Handel's "Messiah", Vivaldi's "Gloria", Brahm's German Requiem - all regarded highly among classical music fans. Why? Because they are all good.
Re:Games haven't ignored it (Score:2)
There is some pretty good art and architecture, too. ;)
Re:Games haven't ignored it (Score:2)
Re:Games haven't ignored it (Score:2)
Christian music really seems to live in its own isolated world. It's pretty rare to see one acheive anything remotely like mainstream popularity. I think Creed was the most recent one to broke out, and that was years ago. I have no idea who the last one before them was.
Re:Games haven't ignored it (Score:2)
BTW, Creed was just a "Christian" band (i.e. they tried really hard to act like they weren't, but they so obviously were). Real Christian bands are not only open about their faith, they also make it a very explicit part of their music (yes, even more explicit than Creed did).
Rob
Re:Games haven't ignored it (Score:2)
Re:Games haven't ignored it (Score:1)
Quite the opposite -- Americans tend to overreport their observances; actual church attendance tends to run 10-20% lower than self-reported figures.
As for religious music, the last few thousand years suggest you may not be right. More recently, how do you feel about a group like U2, whose music is deeply influenced by Catholicism? The Violent Femmes? Leonard Cohen, whose music feeds upon his Jewish heritage a
Re:Games haven't ignored it (Score:1)
Xenosaga (Score:1)
Re:Xenosaga (Score:4, Insightful)
Rob
Re:Xenosaga (Score:3, Insightful)
Even GTA has religion. The mission for Jizzy t
Re:Xenosaga (Score:1)
Re:Xenosaga (Score:2)
hmm (Score:5, Funny)
:plx i need grp
:i wont tk guys rly
As a framework... (Score:2)
From a gameplay point of view, this one strikes me as the most promising of the ideas. I don't recall Moses' "prominence in the Egyptian military" in
Re:As a framework... (Score:2)
I'm a little off on the details I'm sure, but you can check out more here [wikipedia.org].
Re:As a framework... (Score:2)
religious games (Score:2, Funny)
There was one I remember where you were Noah, you had to pick up animals and throw them in the ark, but none of us could figure out what the controls where to actually get them to stay in the ark.
Seriously... It was something right out of the Flanders' household...
Re:religious games (Score:2)
Rob
Limitations... (Score:2)
However, I can see games being written that take religious values into account, and set the player's goals in line with those values. I'd probably even play a few.
Imagine a Scientology MMORPG (Score:2, Funny)
You'd start out with quite little, and have to work your way up through various 'levels', while either having to live in the game or by spending tons and tons of real life money just to get cool stuff in the game. You'd get addicted to the game, and they'd keep adding things to it to make sure you don't leave. The game would be set in a weird sci-fi world where things are totally ridiculous, but you don't realize so at the time.
Oh.. hang on, that describes, um, almost every M
Re:Imagine a Scientology MMORPG (Score:1, Funny)
Oh wait I hear a knock on my door, one sec.
Final Fantasy VII (Score:3, Funny)
You obviously missed out on FF7. No part of the outcome of that game could be altered by human interaction, and it was one of the bestselling games in the world at the time.
Re:Jesus vs the Terminator (Score:3, Interesting)
You could however have fictional characters living in that time frame who interact with the main characters in cutscenes and then go off and do their own thing. Like Bob, who hears about Jesus and must make his way to Jeruselem and encouters mini-quests on the way.
However, I will always be highly suspect of any group that sells Religion for money wheather it be music
Re:Jesus vs the Terminator (Score:2)
(Or for those into Final fantasy) having a level 90 Jesus cast sodom on Pontious pilot , whilst st peter buffs up the party with his level 40 Fish and bread trick
Re:Jesus vs the Terminator (Score:2)
Re:Jesus vs the Terminator (Score:2)
The Richard Simmons Jesus whip-a-thon work out DDR simulation
step one two one two one two , whip those abs . Disco boogie
Re:Jesus vs the Terminator (Score:2)
Reminds me of a joke.
So on TV Moskow during Communism they have this show on the aniversary of Lenin's birthday. Including an interview with comrade Ivan Ivanovich Ivanov, a simple man who's talked to Lenin no less than three times.
Reporter:
Re:Jesus vs the Terminator (Score:2)
You mean like Monty Python's Life of Brian? Yes, nothing controversial to Christians there...
Re:Limitations... (Score:1)
As a side note, I believe that many Christians (and perhaps other religions, also) take things way too seriously. I wouldn't force people to believe what I believe, because I've had peo
Source of inspiration (Score:2)
profit for sure (Score:1, Insightful)
RTS (Score:1)
Nethack (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Nethack (Score:2)
Roguelikes often have a fleshed-out diety system.
Nethack's is rather primitive (the gods are more or less identical in their actions).
The roguelike "Dungeon Crawl" has a well-fleshed out deity system. For example, Xom, the god of chaos, doesn't care what the character does -- he just randomly awards/punishes [google.com]. Trog, the god of berzerkers, hates it when you use magic. Sif Muna rewards magic casters.
Crawl is a fun (although extremely difficult) little game.
UNIX (Score:1)
I guess the game could be called: "KISS, the Zen"
I would also say that playing this game will actually increase you intelligence, attention to detail, and ability to earn a respectable income.
Finally, playing "KISS, the Zen" would be frowned upon by parents (from the name alone), making it highly popular among smart rebellious kids.
#
A couple games worth mention... (Score:2)
Xenogears and Final Fantasy Tactics were two that had heavy religious overtones, and were done very well. There are a handful of games that use religion to enhance the story, so I don't think this articles talk of the "potential" between games and religion is very accurate.
Already Done (Score:2)
TETRIS
Ask anyone who's hooked how religiously they play the darned thing.
Homeworld (Score:4, Insightful)
Besides -- you don't 'game' religion. Nothing about religion is predictable from a scientific point of view. If it were, people would be using prayer tactically to their advantage. Coding a game in which no results are ever guaranteed, nor even terribly predictable (don't even want to introduce the concept of probability that your prayer will be answered vs. the cost of praying)
So it winds up always being story-oriented. And you're not very free to change the story. So you wind up with games like "go find the animals for Noah's ark"
Re:Homeworld (Score:2)
As long as it's not EA (Score:1)
How about... (Score:3, Funny)
Heck we could even have it Deathrace 2000 style where you just run down all religious types you see when you're driving, like those "two guys on mountain bikes" types... Bonus, if you get them both in one shot.
Wow... this could be a whole new game "GTA: Down Wit' Religion" (pun intended).</sarcasm>
Sigh...
Am I the only one who thought about Joshua? (Score:3, Interesting)
So they enter the promised land, call upon the power of Yahweh to do miraculous stuff (Walls of Jericho, battle at AI where the sun & moon stand still), and take over the land. Traditional RTS elements using real geograhical locations and a Biblical back-story. Age of the Promised Land, anybody?
Whoops, got another one (Score:2)
Last one, I promise: take the episodic system of Eternal Darkness for the Cube and trace the lineage of Christ from Adam. Each "chapter" takes about an hour to complete and has an extremely focused task. I'm not creative enough to figure out what Adam would have to do, but Noah's got a boat, David's got lots of inte
Re:Whoops, got another one (Score:2)
Please, for the love of the Elder Gods, do not drag such a masterpiece of a game as Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem, which obviously borrowed so much from the Cthulhu mythos, down into the realm of 'Christianity.'
You know the truth about the Second Coming?
Jesus has to come back so Cthulhu can devour him along with all that lives.
IA! IA! CTHULHU FTHAGN!
Re:Whoops, got another one (Score:2)
Re:Whoops, got another one (Score:2)
I see you're as anti-sarcasm as I am anti-christianity. And I am not Anti-Christianity. I have no problem with the religion. Just with many of its adherants.
And I do agree. The game blew me away. An engrossing story and, what for me, atleast, was an entirely new form of play. Not to mention the fact that the game would screw with your head.
Re:Whoops, got another one (Score:2)
Re:Whoops, got another one (Score:2)
It's quite okay. I am not one of them. I'm a discordian. [principiadiscordia.org]
Re:Whoops, got another one (Score:2)
I wasn't aware that Lovecraftianism was a religion, which is what the parent was (humourously) implying. And in case you didn't notice, my first post was about Judaism, *not* Christianity.
"But, you're right, there is nothing wrong with doing a Chrisitian video game. The problem is that when you Christians pick and choose what parts of the Bible to emphasize and which to conveniently ignore, you strip out all the parts tha
Yahweh! (Score:1)
Re:Yahweh! (Score:2)
That is easy. (Score:3, Interesting)
An all out war between heaven and hell, and the adventures of Satan to tempt humankind.
The main character is Satan, of course!
Religious!
Just start with the right quote (Score:3, Funny)
The first step is not to preach. (Score:4, Insightful)
And that's the biggest problem with most Christian entertainment, a total lack of subtlety. It doesn't have to be about hitting you over the head with the message. IMHO the best Christians live by setting an example, not by brow-beating you into submission.
Re:The first step is not to preach. (Score:2)
Sorry, I am sure this is just a typo...but it appears from this sentence that maybe a little education might be a good thing.
Depends on how it's done. (Score:4, Insightful)
In the latter case, you see the comic used as a podium for lectures, for example a recent comic where Wiley's writing under his tree and writes how Darwin "made monkeys out of you and me."
Now in games, I think we've already seen religion done right: Ultima IV. Being "moral" within the game is not just context, but the end of the game itself, and in that case, it made for a better, more interesting and (most vitally) more fun game than its hack-n-slash predecessors in which the goal was to defeat the murderous villain by being more murderous than him/her. Its religion is not specifically Christian, but the Ultima series shows the general principle that you can make a fun game based on religion. Making a game fun for a different set of beliefs is just applying the Ultima IV-VI design principles to different specific dogmas.
Of course, it's all easier said than done, but that's why good designers make the big bucks.
Re:Depends on how it's done. (Score:1)
Re:Depends on how it's done. (Score:2)
He's right that there's a distinction between ethicality and morality; back to the subject, we're talking about a game where you're supposed to follow certain pre-defined principles, meditate at shrines by focusing on a rune while chanting a mantra and learn how the principles fit together to achieve an ultimat
Unreal Tournament Mod (Score:2)
Already been done... (Score:3, Funny)
Rod: Keep firing; convert the heathens!
Bart: Got him!
Rod: No, you just winged him and made him a Unitarian.
Todd: Look out, Bart! A gentle Baha'i!
Bart: All right! Full conversion! Thanks guys, this really cheered me up.
Video: Second Coming! Reload, reload!
http://www.snpp.com/episodes/BABF10 [snpp.com]
Martyrdom (Score:2)
So Christians could not make games and obey the law, they had to break the law and engage in piracy and IP violation?
Nintendo of America, which at the time Wisdom Tree was getting started held "market power" over video game consoles in the United States, had a policy of excluding all religious content from titles published on its systems. Even the Castlevania series was expurgated in North America. PCs were still too expensive for most families to afford. What platform would you have suggested?
Either
To paraphrase a South Park quote (Score:2)
Seriously, no thanks.
Another good recomendation. (Score:2)
Surely it is pretty easy (Score:2)
Choose "Christian" and you get to go around killing muslims. Choose "Muslim" and you get to go around killing christians. Choose "Scientology" and you get to go around porking teenagers (hi Tom!). Etc.
Who says selling shit in the Temple is bad, anyway?
Easy...and not (Score:3, Insightful)
On the one hand, it is indeed easy: because so much of the Bible is inherently story-based, it's quite easy to come up with ideas for games. Noah alone provides a lot of gaming fodder, from a "Concentration"-type game where you pair up animals for saving on the Ark all the way to an Ark simulator where you have to lay out the pens for the animals and keep them fed, sort of like "Zoo Tycoon" in a very small space.
On the other hand, it is not at all easy. Designing a game that will appeal to Catholics and Protestants alike would have to be tricky. Also, and this is something that they touch on in TFA, you have the problem that evangelicals will condemn you to hell because a game by its nature will either glorify the individual over God, or will be outright blasphemy by making you play AS God. It's the same problem some Christians have with Christian rock: giving glory to the performer, rather than to God. Books and movies are okay for them because books and movies can directly praise God without too much emphasis on the writers and performers.
Then there's the whole issue of "thought equals deed" that a lot of fundamentalists and evangelicals espouse--the same idea that they use to condemn D&D and other paper-and-pen RPGs, the idea that if you conceive of it, you are just as morally responsible as if you have actually done it. It's philosophically bankrupt, and totally destroys any notion of free will, but there you have it.
I think that ultimately, the reason that there aren't a lot of Christian video games is that there's no need. The target audience doesn't buy video games, and non-evangelicals who do buy video games would buy mainstream games that don't actually suck.
Re:Easy...and not (Score:2)
Anyway, I think we're kind of making the same point: Christians who play video games play video games regardless of what they're about. In a sense, it really doesn't make sense to even say "Christian gamer." It's like "Christian skateboarder" or something; religion doesn't really enter into it.
And you're right, well-done Christian-themed games would probably sell. I actually kind of liked my Noah's Ark/Zoo Tycoon
It's Easier Than You Think (Score:2)
Just look at Metal Gear Solid. Extremely fun game, but it had a definite message that it was trying to get across. It w
Final Fantasy VII (Score:2)
Shin Megami Tensei did it (Score:2)
Most major religions are featured, for example the Christians are sadistic morale high grounders. "You side with us or we kill you" types. Total control freaks.
In the second game if you took the Chaos path God was even the last boss.
Untill recently none of them were translated but they get a lot of hype in Japan. It didn'
Am I the only one who noticed this? (Score:2)
Yeah. Let's ask the guy who made a game WITH THE DEVIL IN IT why there aren't more Christian games. Just because Jesus wasn't walking around doesn't mean the game wasn't steeped in religious themes. Christian ones at that.
Re:Religion + videogames = disservice to both (Score:2)
Rob
Re:You're missing the point (Score:2)
In other words, "It's not that X wants a different Y, it's that existing Y is unsuited for X". Uh, right. There must be a subtle difference there that completely escapes me.