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Portables (Games) Businesses Nintendo

Metroid DS Title Not So Much Online 83

Posted by Zonk from the what's-the-point,-then? dept.
The much anticipated Metroid Prime: Hunters for the Nintendo DS has been revealed to be slated to release without multiplayer. 1up.com has the story: "Really, we could have made this game online. But Nintendo's vision of online play is different from that of other companies...We wanted it to be free, easy, and easy to access for everybody. To set up the kind of infrastructure that we needed, and to meet the launch date we have for this game, the two just didn't match."
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Metroid DS Title Not So Much Online

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  • If online play is anything like multiplayer in the demo, I'll pass on it. It's neat as a gimmic, but deathmatch isn't exactly what I want from a Metroid title.
    • They ignored the part of the interview (Nintendo of Europe was interviewing NST) where Vorodi essentially says this won't be a real Metroid title (he says it's more about being surrounded, being the hunter or the hunted, etc) and that you'll start with all your equipment and don't have to hunt it down yet again.
      • oooo, I missed that too. Thanks, I'll skip buying this one, maybe check it out by renting or borrowing. Of course, if they get a SNES emulator working on the DS, that's what mine will do most of the time. Back to Super Metroid for now.

        • Of course, if they get a SNES emulator working on the DS, that's what mine will do most of the time. Back to Super Metroid for now.

          Pocket Heaven [pocketheaven.com] reports that SNES DS is almost working, though Super Metroid is one of the less stable games.

    • Metroid doesn't even need multiplayer. The best game of the series by far(IMHO) is Super Metroid. The 3d versions of metroid are good because they took the very creative powerups and weapons from Super Metroid and the orignals. The fun part was exploring for powerups that would open up more parts of the world. The bosses where also creative and required strategy to beat. I think the aspects that made the previous Metroid games really fun can't be applied to a deathmatch type of game.

      If there should b

  • It DOES come with multiplayer (Score:5, Informative)

    by NekoXP ( 67564 ) on Friday July 15, 2005 @10:21PM (#13079301) Homepage

    Don't people read..

    The references state that it simply won't be INTERNET play. You can still
    jump in with 4 DS (and only one cart..) and play with 3 of your friends,
    deathmatching in the same room or office.

    Just not with your friends thousands of miles away in Japan or South Africa, eh?

    Someone tell me why that is a big loss?

    Neko

  • But there were no comments when the timestamp was sonething like 8:53 PM. I refreshed Firefox and then it told me that I could not see the story because I was not a subscriber. What happened? Bug in Slashcode? Or were they in the process of pulling the story? I don't see why they would; the final one looks the same.

  • It's about quality (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 15, 2005 @10:38PM (#13079380)
    Something that drives me crazy is that most video game writers have no clue how much it takes to produce a videogame; they assume that there is virtually no effort and no cost associated with adding features to a game (and they're wrong).

    Metroid's development probably started any where between 18 and 30 months ago; in the early design stages they were probably pretty uncertain what type of online plan there would be and they probably never intended to have any features that took advantage of it. Now Nintendo probably came to a final decision about the Nintendo DS' online infastructure 9-12 months ago; well after the feature set of Metroid Prime Hunters' had been decided upon. Now (hypothetically) Nintendo could have spent more money, diverted development resources from other features in the game, and delayed the game to tack on some second rate online multiplayer.

    A delay of the game would be costly because Nintendo thinks that this game is needed to attract the 'core-gamer' audience to the Nintendo DS; and reallocating resources would have been costly because it would have lowered the quality of the game and thus sold less games (and potentially less Nintendo DS').

    Ultimatley it is a trade-off; You can create a game that is of higher quality to the 90% of potential users who are not interested in Online Multiplayer or you can create a game that is better for the 10% that is. It sounds one sided but it was probably a tough decision because the 10% that are interested in Online Multiplayer have more influence over the general gaming public.
    • 10% of users interested in online multiplayer? half of the people that bought halo2 wouldn't even have bought it if it didn't have online multiplayer. personally, i think the 1 month or so delay it would cost to put in a online player model, would be worth it.
      • As most portable gaming devices are used when travelling, I don't think the DS WiFi play has the same demand as an X-box. Most of the places I play my GBA is where no WiFi is really feasable. Apples and Oranges.
      • I give it a month if not less before someone tunnels it(as they did for Halo, Mario Kart, and other "lan" play enabled games).
        • *rubs hands together*

          That would be pretty sweet. The only thing that I see that might be a problem with this is Single-Cart play. I believe Nintendo uses it's proprietary wireless protocols to pass game transmission back and forth, and I do not know if the DS supports Net play over 802.11.

          Then again, I have read some blogs about hardware hacking to align wireless routers/cards and whatnot with Nintendo-like firmware. Hmmm... Maybe then the DS would support netplay... Then again, I think that would mak
          • What you're thinking of is possible, the DS will network boot code over a wireless connection(this is one of the ways to boot into DS mode from a GBA flash cart, called the WiFiME exploit). It is an 802.11 device(I can see it's traffic with kismet and pull data out via ethereal). The local wireless LAN play is 802.11, just w/o an IP stack(basically).

            So yea, you could, in theory single cart play Metroid Prime Hunters with 3 people located anywhere who don't have the game, just a DS. Just got to route tho
      • "half of the people that bought halo2 wouldn't even have bought it if it didn't have online multiplayer"

        Where are you getting this from? Absolutely nowhere? Thought so.

    • >> but it was probably a tough decision because the 10% that are interested in Online Multiplayer have more influence over the general gaming public.

      Because they're the people that buy far more games per person than the people in the 90%. Game companies make livings off selling games to that 10%.

      • Really? Prove it. Put up or shut up, because I've never seen one lick of market research that asserts any given thing. If anything it says the opposite.

        Halo 2 didn't sell all too many more units than it's predecessor, despite having online play the original lacked. And the big daddy of software sales, the original pokemon, has yet to be rivaled. There is at least one copy out there of the game(of one of the original 3 versions or another) for every GBA in existance. It makes every online game ever to
        • Hi! I didn't know they let 14 year olds on Slashdot! Are you lost? You're looking for www.gamefaqs.com, little angst kiddy!

          • Oooh the pain! I have been "burned." Oh snap! It was the Pokemon reference wasn't it(even though it's true, the original Pokemon, as sad as this is, sold nearly 80 million copies between all three versions worldwide)? That's how you saw through my ruse of having an older account, 30 times the fans, perpetually excellent karma, and being fairly well known in the journal and oldschool communities of the dot...

            DAMN! I WAS DOING SO WELL!

            Oh wait, I see now, you are a complete and total bullshitting karma
            • The problem is that you're too busy burning straw men to wrap your little brain around what the argument actually was.

              • There was an argument? You made one!? I'm looking for it, I see no argument. I see an assertion and I see nothing to back up that assertion, but I certainly don't see a coherant argument or even the foundation of an incoherant one.

                An argument would've required you to refute anything I had posted. Something, anything! Then we have an argument! But, you can't do that, so you resort to flaming... hmmm...

                Did you somehow skip years of english or something and just pick up "straw-man" as a logical fallac
                • Jeez man, chill out. He was mostly right about the strawman thing. You haven't done anything to really refute his original argument that a small subset of the gaming population buys an abnormally high proportion of all games sold. Telling him to "put up or shut up" because you don't believe a commonly accepted theory doesn't count as a substansive argument. Neither does comparing apples (last year's release of Halo 2) to oranges (a series of Pokemon games that started coming out back in 1995, AFAIK). And si
                  • Congratulations. You made an argument. The other guy didn't. Quite frankly, I'm sick of all the fucking bullshit in the gaming press. Call me jaded, I've been exposed to it for well over 2 decades, and he didn't post one piece of non-bullshit.

                    Making an unbacked up assertion is NOT an argument, it's a bullshit assertion, and when you defend it)this is where the argument part comes in) by resorting to ad hominems, it just further PROVES you're bullshitting.

                    I knew he was full of shit, so I approached him
          • "Hi! I didn't know they let 14 year olds on Slashdot!"

            There's actually no age limit for signing up at Slashdot, or at least there doesn't look to be. It's usually 13 on most forums though, so now you know.

    • So you say only 10% of potential owners of the are interested in playing it online? For one I doubt that assertion is anywhere near accurate, but that's not my point yet. I'd say only about 5% are interested in playing the game in local multiplayer, who really has 3 friends with DS' compared to who has one DS and a WIFI connection?
  • I don't see how this is a big deal.

    Halo 1 did the same thing.

    Now imagine you could have played system link Halo using only 1 copy of the game. That'd be damn sweet.

    The Metroid demo was nice. I am looking forward to playing the full version when it comes out with friends in the same room. Much easier to talk smack with them anyways. ;-)

  • The reason? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by rohlfinator ( 888775 )
    I'm assuming lag. A first person shooter almost always requires very quick response times, something that average broadband connection still doesn't allow across long distances. Notice that most online DS games will be quite casual, slow-paced games: Animal Crossing, Ultimate Card/Brain Games, Final Fantasy, Bomberman. The one exception is Mario Kart, but a bit of lag in a friendly kart-racing game won't be a huge deal.

    Nintendo is trying to make an online plan that caters to gamers who don't usually play
    • Notice that most online DS games will be quite casual, slow-paced games: (...) Bomberman.

      (boggle) Has it really been that long since Super Bomberman, with its Duel Zone that tended to host two-second-long games? DS Bomberman better measure up!
      • Hudson has already released a DS Bomberman [ign.com], although it supported only local multiplayer. From what I've read, it's a blast for multiplayer, but kind of a dud as a single player game (puns intended). Hudson is currently working on an online Bomberman game, so I'm holding out for that one. It'll probably end up to be a slight upgrade over this one.

        Personally, I'm eagerly anticipating Worms [ign.com] for DS and PSP. If they support cross-platform online play, I'll be hooked for a long time. Portable Worms would be b

  • Gaming media sickens me (Score:4, Interesting)

    by BinaryOpty ( 736955 ) on Saturday July 16, 2005 @02:48AM (#13080108)
    The article's angry that Nintendo won't shoehorn in a wireless mode into Metroid Prime:Hunters. Mario Kart and Animal Crossing are doing it too, he says. Nintendo sucks and blah blah because this one game won't have online play!

    Oh, but wait, both of those "look they're online so why can't you be" games are based off of existing franchises and so the development time is much, much shorter than developing a completely new engine/game on a (then) brand new system? The turnaround time for putting a good online multiplayer that interfaces with Nintendo's sytem is too longfor Nintendo's tastes? Especially when when the details of their wireless system wasn't settled upon until halfway through said game's development cycle? I guess these aren't viable reasons to the gaming media. Who can say "bias?" I know I can!
    • Gaming media (or at least most of it) sickens me as well, though for different reasons. But 1-up's frustration with this didn't occur in a vaccuum. Gamers have been complaining for years that Nintendo hasn't supported online play. It isn't just "because this one game won't have online play", it's because this is a sign that Nintendo still doesn't get it.

      Metroid Prime: Hunters is essentially a deathmatch game AFAIK, completely lacking the style of single player experience that a normal Metroid game offers.
    • Apparently you've never heard of Metroid Prime 2 for the game cube?
      • Well, the other two games were on the N64 (Animal Crossing only in Japan) which is more in line with the DS in power, which gives those games a boost in engine creation since Nintendo already knows how to move an N64 engine over to the DS. Prime's only been on the Gamecube and so shoehorning that engine (which was made by Retro Studios and NST's handling Hunters, which probably means the engine's being made from the ground up rather than converted like the other two games) onto the DS would be much more lab

  • MP: Hunters was never supposed to be online (Score:5, Insightful)

    by LKM ( 227954 ) on Saturday July 16, 2005 @02:52AM (#13080114)

    If you read the article, you might get the impression that Nintendo somehow changed its plan for Hunters. This is not the case. Hunters was never planned as an online game.

    Considering that it's almost a launch title (a Demo version was included with many DS consoles), it's fair to assume that Nintendo had this game planned for quite some time now. Most likely way before they finished the specs of their online service. That makes it very obvious that 1up's article shows a severe lack of understanding of how software development works, as this quote shows:

    You're telling me Nintendo didn't have any plans for this freakin' feature when they started development on Metroid Prime: Hunters? Looks like Nintendo still hasn't learned anything from their past.

    In fact, it's hardly a news piece as much as it is a rant. It almost looks as if the author was searching for something to complain about, and when finding nothing, decided to just make something up. He calls online play in Hunters a "hot button issue" when, in fact, neither Nintendo nor anyone else has ever hinted at Hunters having an online mode:

    Is it any surprise Nintendo's avoiding the hot button issue of online multiplayer with Metroid Prime: Hunters? The company absolutely loves highlighting the work they're supposedly putting into an online infrastructure for Nintendo DS, but they're showing time and time again that they completely miss the point.

    He then castigates Nintendo for not "fixing" the very prolem he had just made up a few minutes before:

    If you put your ear close to the screen, you can actually hear the damage control sirens buzzing inside the text. Nintendo knows they've botched online for Metroid Prime: Hunters, and seems content without doing anything about it.

    I don't usually question Slashdot's posting policy, since even stupid articles often lead to interesting discussions, but considering that Hunters was never supposed to be an online game, and considering the overal lack of quality of the article, I really think this one doesn't deserve to be even on Slashdot.

    • While lack of online play certainly shouldn't be a dealbreaker with this game (as perhaps the author thinks), calling Nintendo to task on their online strategy is more than appropriate. Their lack of online support for the Gamecube - managing only a Dreamcast port and its sequel - was a crying shame. Super Smash Brothers, Mario Kart and, yes, Metroid Prime could have made excellent online experiences. Imagine those on Xbox Live and how great they'd work.

      Now we have a DS strategy that seems to be simply

      • Their lack of online support for the Gamecube - managing only a Dreamcast port and its sequel - was a crying shame.

        I agree. The people who bought an online adapter were screwed over. Nintendo should never have released the adapter. There's only one online game, and the LAN games aren't worth the huge price of the adapter.

        But the case of the DS is different. The DS will go online. It's just that the online titles aren't yet ready. Mario Kart DS will be an online title, and Animal Crossing DS will be, t

        • But the case of the DS is different. The DS will go online. It's just that the online titles aren't yet ready. Mario Kart DS will be an online title, and Animal Crossing DS will be, too. Hunters won't, and it was never meant to be.

          That's a reasonable sounding argument, but I am not sure how valid it really is. Obviously release dates change, but currently Mario Kart DS is coming out less than a month after Hunters is (and Animal Crossing comes out about five weeks after). That gap is so short that I rea

          • Obviously release dates change, but currently Mario Kart DS is coming out less than a month after Hunters is (and Animal Crossing comes out about five weeks after).

            Are you sure? Hunters should be coming out August 22, 2005 , while Mario Kart (according to IGN [ign.com]) is scheduled to come out on November 7, 2005. That's more than two months. I'm not sure when they'll come out in Japan, though.

            Either way, you should also take in account when planning startet. I think it's fair to assume that Hunters has been i

    • I think it's less the development itself and more that Nintendo is trying to set up a full blown online service and it won't be finished by the time Prime 3 Arena is supposed to be released. Their online titles are coming out quite a bit later.
  • The Slashdot summary is inaccurate. The words "to release without multiplayer" should be changed to "to release without online multiplayer." As others have said, the game will still have multiplayer.

  • Interview with MP: Hunters Creator from May 18 (Score:3, Informative)

    by LKM ( 227954 ) on Saturday July 16, 2005 @08:14AM (#13080790)

    This is really old news. I just found this Interview in IGN [ign.com] from May 18 in which Kensuke Tanabe, Product Manager at Nintendo NCL, explains why Hunters won't have Internet multiplayer:

    IGN: With multiplayer being Metroid Prime Hunter's focus, and Nintendo's stance on going online with its Nintendo DS software, what can you tell us about the possibility of this game going online?

    Kensuke Tanabe: Unfortunately, the game won't support the multiplayer internet function of the Nintendo DS. To do it, it's not that easy and we'd have to build the infrastructure for it to work properly. The timing of the game release and the building of the infrastructure just didn't match. So while it won't be online, multiplayer will still be very very fun.
  • Why is it that they got Metroid Prime so right (twice!) but got Hunters so very, very wrong?
    I've played the demo. A lot. It's not fun. It actually reduced my desire to own a DS.
    Nintendo should include the original Tetris with every portable it sells. Turn it on without a cart: Pictochat or Tetris? That would convince me to buy one.
    • hy is it that they got Metroid Prime so right (twice!)...
      this is sort of off topic, but I HATED Metroid Prime. The Metroid series had been one of my favorite game series, and then they RUINED with Prime. The first person element seems like the biggest and most apparent screw up, I really fail to understand why, with the mechanics of the game, they could fail to at least have an option of a third-person mode; personally I can't stand first person games for a number of reasons. (The lock-on system meant
      • "...and the HUD would have worked as well as it did in first person as an overlay to a third-person view"

        Not very well. The entire point of the visor was to reinforce the illusion that you are Samus, guided by nothing but your suit's onboard computer and your own sense of adventure. Had Retro created a third-person game, much of what makes the game unique would have been sacrificed. The whole concept of "visors" would have been completely out of place, which would be a shame because the x-ray and thermal
      • Or maybe you just can't stand first person games, and all the Metroid fans who like it genuinely liked it. I certainly did.

        I love 2D metroid, and have thoroughly enjoyed Zero Mission and Fusion (though Fusion was too linear), but Prime was also a blast, and for me, really captured the feeling of Metroid - isolation, exploration, atmosphere.

        Maybe you're just projecting your dislike onto everyone else?

        • Guy's allowed to have an opinion. Personally, I loved both Metroid Prime games and a big fan of the Metroid series in general.
          • Oh, he's certainly allows to have an opinion. What I had an issue with was his assuming that his opinion was right, and that everyone who enjoyed the game didn't do so for the game's actual merits:

            ...a lot of people were desperate for a Metroid game, and a lot of other people will lap up any piece of crap that is first person.

            That right there is what I have a problem with - he doesn't like Prime, fine, but trying to discredit anyone who did like it is too much.

  • Poor, poor game companies. What don't they understand? Who hasn't seen the MMO's sky rocket because people want multiplayer capabilities? Give a game multiplayer online and you've got a seller. Example of what NOT to do: Make Coded Arms(PSP) only Ad Hoc mode(Must be within certain amount of ft to play with other player), no Infrastructure(Over internet) mode there. That makes me unlikely to buy the game since I don't know many people who own a 250$ Handheld gaming device. You limit the game and its huge ma
  • Why is is no one has tryed to make a console game that plays online with others that play on a PC?

    I dont think there is any I have noticed, maybe there is, if so please let me know.
    Seems like a great idea to me.
    Playing games like Unreal Tournament or Battlefield would be awsome if people on consoles could just join the same online servers as those playing with PCs, so for games like this one, they could just release a Linux version of the server and let either console or PC users play on the same servers.
    O

    • Re:Anyone know why no Console to PC online games? (Score:2, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Umm... Final Fantasy XI

    • Re:Anyone know why no Console to PC online games? (Score:1, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      They did this with Quake 3 on the Dreamcast. There are 2 problems with this currently, a company has to have an open service to allow for this (which eliminates the XBox), and there has to be a way for the game to get patches (which eliminates the PS2, Gamecube, and PS3). Now, it is theoritically possile that Nintendo would allow a portion of the 512MB of internal memory in the Revolution to go towards small 'ballancing' patches for online games; the problem still is that if the exploit is not script based
      • I didnt realize that becuase XBOX has XBOX Live it makes them use it, I can imagine them doing this for game such as Madden, but for other online games where there the game maker themselves where not wanting to setup their own online game area, wich is what I herd Madden wanted to do.
        I do agree that its stupid either way, for games that are out on the PC and XBOX they could just run the servers at microsoft and let PC also connect I would think.

        And not having a internal hard drive for things like patches s
    • mainly because the players on consoles with joysticks and RAPED by the keyboard and mouse PC players, even the arrowkeys/ctrl-shift-enter numpad crowd would be running up the score against the consolers. the WASD players might die once or twice in a 20 frag match against the console players, and if there were any ASDF players the console players would never even see them once, just their own gibs flying.

      you may think i am exaggerating but serously, go play Red Faction 2 on PS2, halo on Xbox, or Goldeye/
    • Dreamcast version of Quake 3 could, but it was a pain, as you had to use a DC map pack on the PC.

      Honestly, the DC version was by far the best console port (beat the PS2 soundly). Keyboard and mouse control, to boot.

    • Okay...so i hated the game, but if I have it, other people must...so Final Fantasy 11, allows pc's, ps2's and apparently will let xbox 360s all connect to each other online.

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